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19 Oct 01 - 10:28 PM (#576052) Subject: tuning a guitar by ear From: 53 how many of you mudcatters can tune a guitar without using any type of tuner of pitch instrument? |
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19 Oct 01 - 10:33 PM (#576056) Subject: RE: tuning a guitar by ear From: BluesMojo I can tune a guitar to itself pretty easy, but I'm not quite as lucky with concert pitch. I can get it close, but not there. In my dorm there's a guy named Andrew, a music major who is driven insane by the fact that my guitar is almost always out of tune. He'll stop by about once every two days or so, gripe at me for it and put it perfectly in tune by ear, without even using the other strings for reference. Then I'll put it in open G for slide and back and it'll be intolerable to him again. And so the cycle continues.. |
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19 Oct 01 - 10:51 PM (#576068) Subject: RE: tuning a guitar by ear From: 53 i can't do it, i'm like you i can get it close but that's it. |
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19 Oct 01 - 11:38 PM (#576084) Subject: RE: tuning a guitar by ear From: Little Hawk Relative tuning is no problem, but concert pitch? For that I need a tuner or pitch pipe or harmonica. - LH |
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19 Oct 01 - 11:54 PM (#576093) Subject: RE: tuning a guitar by ear From: Gary T There are some interesting previous threads about tuning by ear and developing the knack to do that. Someone more competent than I might find and link them. I can do an okay job given a reference note to start with, but I get it done better and faster with an electronic tuner. |
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20 Oct 01 - 12:10 AM (#576104) Subject: RE: tuning a guitar by ear From: Steve in Idaho There was a time I could tune to pitch by ear - could even do it while others were playing - now I'm lucky to get it in tune with an electronic device - I think I got spoiled on the electronics - Steve Lazy is more like it *G* |
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20 Oct 01 - 12:33 AM (#576114) Subject: RE: tuning a guitar by ear From: Chip2447 I can get really close by ear. Can't now nor have ever been able to tune with pitch pipe or another instrument. In my old age though I have taken to using a electronic tuner, probably like Spaw says....Lazy... Chip2447 |
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20 Oct 01 - 12:46 AM (#576118) Subject: RE: tuning a guitar by ear From: Mark Clark I posted a tip on tuning without an electronic tuner a while back but I always need an A440 reference to start with. I don't know how close I could come with out a tuning fork but I'm guessing not very. When I was seven or eight years old, my parents used to make me turn my back while one of them played a note on the piano. I was expected to correctly identify the note. I'd play along and try to guess but I don't remember ever being reliably consistant at the game. - Mark |
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20 Oct 01 - 01:07 AM (#576125) Subject: RE: tuning a guitar by ear From: Justa Picker Guilty as charged. |
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20 Oct 01 - 01:29 AM (#576132) Subject: RE: tuning a guitar by ear From: Mudlark I don't even know what "concert pitch" is, but I have always tuned by ear, in fact, find electronic tuning a total cock-up where NOTHING sounds right. Since I play with a amateurs, many of whom are all over the place, being able to quickly tune by ear to their instruments is a big help. Also, since my own voice is low, when playing solo I tune down a bit...have no idea how much, just enough to put me in range of the songs I like to sing. But that means lots of retuning when I play with others.
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20 Oct 01 - 01:32 AM (#576134) Subject: RE: tuning a guitar by ear From: BluesMojo The one note that I can always hear in my head is the G played on the third fret of the low E string. I can always hear it in my head, so if I need to try and get near concert tuning I can try and hear the G in my head and tune the third fret of that string. Then tune the guitar to itself. |
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20 Oct 01 - 01:34 AM (#576137) Subject: RE: tuning a guitar by ear From: Sorcha To do this, you have to be able to hear the exact pitch in your head, always. My mother could. Her choir teacher in high school used her voice to "tune" the choir. As in "Helen, give us an E flat just above middle C". She could do it even years after she stopped singing in public. (In my very humble opinion people who can do this are disgusting---grin!) |
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20 Oct 01 - 01:49 AM (#576143) Subject: RE: tuning a guitar by ear From: rangeroger I use an A440 tuning fork for my A string then bring the rest of the guitarto that standard.I've been doing it that way for so many years that I getting better at doing it by ear alone. I still have a problem with trying to sharpen the note.Sometimes I will play the A and it will sound flat.I bring it up to what I think sounds right then find I have to retune the other strings. At that point I break the tuning fork back out and find that the A string was spot on to begin with. Oh well, back to the tuning board. One thing that is nice is that my guitar stays in tune quite well. At festivals I can go campsite to campsite,pull it out of the case, and it will be in tune with the other instruments. rr |
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20 Oct 01 - 02:15 AM (#576146) Subject: RE: tuning a guitar by ear From: Rory B heheheh I have learned to sing out of tune...easier!! |
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20 Oct 01 - 03:09 AM (#576157) Subject: RE: tuning a guitar by ear From: BlueJay Our challenge is not getting in tune to begin with, but staying in tune with each other through a set. This is made more difficult by David's propensity to change tunings on his 12 string after every three or four songs, as well as the fact that Annie's flute tends to change pitch as it warms up while playing, and cools down between sets. We gave up on tuners, and just go with what sounds right. I will turn fifty in a couple of months, and I've noticed it's harder to tune now than when I was twenty or thirty. I find the lower frequencies are harder, (I'm usually playing bass now). That's weird, because I learned that the higher frequencies were the first to go in age-related hearing loss. Mind you, I hear fine. I would get myself to an audioloigist if I thought otherwise. It just seems harder to tune the lower notes than it used to be. Maybe it's just that I'm fairly new at bass playing. Thanks, BlueJay |
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20 Oct 01 - 05:05 AM (#576187) Subject: RE: tuning a guitar by ear From: Tom French Having played 34 years, I just have the sounds of the stings in my head. If someone has cranked it way out, I can quickly crank it into tune without a reference. I play church organ and keyboard periodically and therefore hear a correct A-440 often. A person playing instrument that is tuned below or above concert pitch with come to think A-440 is something different. Training that ear recognition isn't emphasized with guitar students, but a violin student is handed an A-440 turning fork immediately as a violinish has to play with the correct pitch in mind. Open strings are rarely used since one cannot use vibrato on them.
If I want to get finicky about a solo piece I tune octaves on G open 3rd string to the G's 3rd frets of the 1st and 6th strings. I then tune a perfect 5th (a nice clear hollow sound) between G open 3rd string and D at the 3rd fret of the B string. Open 5ths are actually clearer to hear than unisons or octaves because you listen to the strings beating together very easily. That D at 3rd fret on the 2nd string then serves as a reference to D open 4th string. D, 5th fret of 5th string is tuned in unison to D 4th open string. The perfect 4th relationship exists between G open 3rd and D open string below as a crosscheck.
I use D tuning fairly often (6th string lowered to D from E). Here I tune D octaves between 6th open, 4th open, and 2nd string 3rd fret D. I then tune a perfect fifth A open 5th string above the sixth. A perfect about D 4th string for A 2nd fret of the 3rd string. and finally A 5th fret of the 1st string is tuned a perfect 5th above the D 3rd fret of the 2nd string. A nice cross check is to sequentially pluck all strings while fretting the upper three strings to the A's and D.
Use of 5ths is worth learning if you play melodic work on the guitar and delicate chording. A fifth is the overall distance of the triad and essential a clear chord. The third may be brighter or darker, but the fifth sound need that perfect distance. Since I play in the key of G and C predominantly for clawhammer picking, I choose to work with the G. If I play in Keys of A or E then I will work with the 5th relations of A and E. The D tuning about, likewise focused on 5th relations of D.
Another worthy point to consider is that the primary 3 chords in western music are the major chords built on the 1st, 4th, and 5th notes of the scale, (Key is C: C-F-G) (Key is E: E-A-B) (etc) Check it out, all those prime tones lie a fifth away from the Key chord, (or a fourth, the inverse of a fifth, away from the Key chord) A tuning which perfects the important fifth/fourth relationships of the key, results in not simply an accurate tuning but and enhanced tuning brightness. Minor keys follow the same prime relationships. Modal keys occassionally are supported by fifth tuning.
Beginning or early guitar plays should always be issued and electronic digital tuner to begin training the ear immediately. Tuning a guitar is nearly impossible for a beginner and can kill the interest in playing. The tuners are a gift from the Muses.
Some players sound the prime chords to double check a tuning, This is a good technique, but what they are looking for is the perfect fifth, whether or not they realize it. The chord however is also sounding the 3rd of the chord which clouds the beating of the fifth.
Beating; In case some of you aren't familiar with the term, it is coincidence of vibrations between different notes. Octaves are a 2:1 ration (A-220 vs A-440 vs A-880) (C-523 vs C-1046)(ect) Hear the one vibration of the lower note coincides with two vibrations of the upper note, a 'perfect' relationship. The fifth relationship is 3:1. A unison is 1:1, obviously since it is the pitch to itself. On good instruments or single strings of a piano, your ear can pinpoint these perfect distances because it can hear these coincidental beatings. Anything slightly off in either direction is immediately very harsh. The ear in this capacity is far more accurate than a tuning device which samples sound and compares it to a programmed value.
Another popular tuning method is to play harmonics, usually using the octave harmonic at the 12th fret. Just touch the string lightly to deaded the fundamental string sound and you'll hear the harmonic. The 12th fret cuts the string in half, the 2:1 relationship of the octave. Touching the string lightly at the 7th fret divides the sring at the 1/3 lenght point and sounds the fifth harmonic. You can also find this same harmonic down towards the soundhole when you touch at the 1/3 lenght point from that end, which is interesting but inconvenient. Depending on how refined your guitar is, at the fifth fret you can find the 2 octave harmonic since you are touching at the 1/4 length of the string, a 4:1 relationship, which = two 2:1 relationships. The overtone or harmonic relationships then go the to major 3rd, the minor 3rd, ect indefinitely, but you can't produce on a guitar. (Get a trumpet or any brass instrument, they play nothing but harmonices.) Some guitar players like to test with harmonics because that measures the pitch of the string without problems of pressings, loose windings, warped necks, etc.
Last point: since I rarely change my strings they are all worn at the fret contact points and being not uniform, really won't tune properly at all. Anyone who wants to sound their best at a performance or recording session, should change the set of strings first. Worn strings can be turned as open strings, but every playing at every fret will be off according to the damage of the string. Of course, a broken string is not a sound problem at all, so those don't need to be changed. |
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20 Oct 01 - 05:32 AM (#576191) Subject: RE: tuning a guitar by ear From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser) Like rangeroger, I use an A440 tuning fork. I've been using that method for so long now that I've got a pretty good sense of the pitch of an A harmonic (which I strike on the D string) so that I can get away without using the fork pretty well now. I don't find electronic tuners very useful on acoustic guitars. They're OK on the top four strings but below that they're too unreliable. I think you get too many harmonics from the higher strings and that confuses them. Just a theory. By the way, I hear that there is a fish that lives in the South Pacific whose scales vibrate at a constant 440 hz when it is caught and taken out of the water. Apparently it's called the Tuner Fish.... |
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20 Oct 01 - 09:17 AM (#576239) Subject: RE: tuning a guitar by ear From: Cappuccino That test that Mark Clark described was part of the London college of music tests for kids way back in the 1920/30s. (No, I wasn't there!!!) Playing bass, I discovered that the only tuning that made sense was to ask the guitarist to play a chord of A minor (not major) and I could tune the D string to that at the 5th, and then relative-tune the other strings. But I could never tune the bottom E on the bass by ear. - Ian B |
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20 Oct 01 - 09:24 AM (#576241) Subject: RE: tuning a guitar by ear From: catspaw49 My ear is too flexible to strum the strings and it's a damn awkward position to hold a guitar not to mention reaching the machine heads. Spaw |
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20 Oct 01 - 09:45 AM (#576248) Subject: RE: tuning a guitar by ear From: GUEST,van gogh I tried it but it didn't work too well. Vincent |
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20 Oct 01 - 11:37 AM (#576297) Subject: RE: tuning a guitar by ear From: John MacKenzie I used to tune by ear, but I got in dire trouble; dire ear. Say it quick it almost works. DARFC Jock |
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20 Oct 01 - 07:33 PM (#576511) Subject: RE: tuning a guitar by ear From: Bernard I've never needed an electronic tuner... in fact, on one occasion (in the mid 1980's) a friend was tuning her guitar to an electronic tuner, and I said 'That's sharp!' to which she retorted that the tuner said it was in concert pitch! So I asked her if the battery was okay, and she pressed the battery checker - nope! The battery was nearly flat - making the tuner read sharp! 'Perfect Pitch' can be learned - if you are driving in your car, you always know what note the next song starts on when you're playing your favourite tape/CD!
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20 Oct 01 - 09:52 PM (#576573) Subject: RE: tuning a guitar by ear From: GUEST,Steven G. For 18 years, I have tried to tune to my guitar to perfect concert pitch. Because for the longest time, I didn't have a electronic tuner, so it was great to learn to tune the guitar by ear. But most of the time, when I tried it was always half way there to concert pitch. Ah, maybe someday I will get it. Steven G.
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21 Oct 01 - 12:38 PM (#576778) Subject: RE: tuning a guitar by ear From: Nigel.Parsons To Bernard, perfect pitch may be trainable, but your experience doesn't show that. You can pitch the start note of the next song on your favourite CD, but you are doing it (possibly subconsciously) relative to the notes in the prvious track! from Nigel |
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21 Oct 01 - 02:10 PM (#576808) Subject: RE: tuning a guitar by ear From: Mark Clark I don't know about CDs but cassette drives are notoriously unreliable with regard to speed. The actual pitch heard from a car's tape player may be fairly far from concert. - Mark |
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21 Oct 01 - 03:39 PM (#576863) Subject: RE: tuning a guitar by ear From: 53 that's very true. |
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21 Oct 01 - 10:58 PM (#577140) Subject: RE: tuning a guitar by ear From: Bernard Nigel - precisely my point. It's all down to musical memory. After a while, the reference points become internalised - which is how I do it. Like any other discipline, it needs the right sort of practice, and my example was not intended to be taken as a method - merely an illustration. I'm a trained music teacher, BTW. |