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19 Feb 98 - 01:58 PM (#21763) Subject: sugar babe From: kcbrady@unm.edu An album by the Youngbloods, entitled "Earth Music" contained a song entitled Sugar Babe. Anyone know who wrote that tune. I always though it was Mississippi John Hurt, but I can't find any references to it Click for Norman Blake's Chattanooga Sugar Babe |
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19 Feb 98 - 02:35 PM (#21765) Subject: RE: sugar babe From: Ralph Butts KC......I've heard it by Tom Rush. My brother's got it.....Tiger |
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19 Feb 98 - 08:55 PM (#21809) Subject: RE: sugar babe From: chet w Heard it played by Jonathan Edwards (Sunshine go away today...) It's on one of his albums. Chet W. |
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20 Feb 98 - 07:32 AM (#21851) Subject: RE: sugar babe From: hanrahan It was written by Jesse Colin Young and has been covered by many including Stephen Stills, John Renbourne and Steve Miller Band. hanrahan |
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20 Feb 98 - 12:53 PM (#21861) Subject: RE: sugar babe From: Brian Hoskin Mance Lipscomb recalls that Sugar Babe was the first song that he learned to play. This was at the age of 14, which would have been in 1919. Whether this is the same song or not though I don't know. Brian |
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22 Oct 99 - 01:50 PM (#126838) Subject: RE: sugar babe From: RICK B I KNOW MANCE LIPSCOMB'S VERSION OF THIS SONG. HOWEVER, I DO NOT KNOW ALL THE VERSES. CAN ANYBODY HELP ME OUT WITH SOME LYRICS? MUCH APPRECIATED, RICK |
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22 Oct 99 - 02:05 PM (#126853) Subject: RE: sugar babe From: Fortunato Rick B. Goin' down town gonna get myself a rope whip my baby 'til she buzzard lope Sugar Babe, it's all over now. That's all I can remember now, think I've got them at home.... |
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22 Oct 99 - 02:07 PM (#126856) Subject: RE: sugar babe From: katlaughing And, we think rap has some misogynistic lyrics! |
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22 Oct 99 - 02:51 PM (#126888) Subject: RE: sugar babe From: rick b THANKS FORTUNATO. I'LL LOOK LATER TO SEE IF YOU COME UP WITH OTHER LYRICS FROM HOME. HEY KAT, I AGREE THAT LOTS OF OLD BLUES TUNES HAVE INAPPROPRIATE LYRICS. YOU CERTAINLY GET A SENSE OF THAT OLD (OR MAYBE STILL EXISTENT)MALE DOMINANT, VIOLENT ENVIRONMENT. BECAUSE I OFTEN PERFORM THESE SONGS I OFTEN CHANGE THE LYRICS TO BRING THEM UP TO DATE AND PRESENT WORDS THAT I CAN RELATE TO. EITHER THAT OR I JUST DON'T SING THAT SONG. |
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22 Oct 99 - 02:54 PM (#126891) Subject: RE: sugar babe From: katlaughing It's okay, Rickb, no need to shout. I am aware of such lyrics and applaud your sensitivity. The words just brought to mind the Is Rap Folk thread and how those types of lyrics aren't necessarily new to music. |
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22 Oct 99 - 02:57 PM (#126893) Subject: RE: sugar babe From: Fortunato kat/katlaughing The reason I can't remember the rest of the lyrics is because I wouldn't sing the song. Songs I sing I usually can't ever forget. However, in context the verse sounds like it's mock serious, an empty threat and meant to be 'humorous'. Put me right off it though. |
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22 Oct 99 - 03:32 PM (#126907) Subject: Lyr Add: SUGAR BABE (from Tom Rush) From: Kevin I remember some of the Tom Rush version.
Hey, Sugar Babe, what's the matter with you?
All I want my sugar to do
Goin' down town, gonna get me a line.
Hey, Sugar Babe, what's the matter with you? There was more but that's all I can remember off the top of my head. Kevin |
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22 Oct 99 - 03:57 PM (#126915) Subject: RE: sugar babe From: Chet W. The version I used to do my partner learned from the Jonathan Edwards album. He sang the verses so I don't remember all of them, but I don't think we did any that were violent. I'll try to find it on one of our old tapes. Yes it's true that a lot of old songs contain themes and images that today seem a lot less appropriate than they may have way back then. I do a lot of changing words, too. About as ugly (musically) as I ever get is "Frankie and Johnny", the Charlie Poole version where "Frankie put her finger on the 44 and the gun went Rootie-toot-toot, and Johnny fell...". Back in the historic 1980's there was a rap album that was actually banned in our county by the Solicitor (District Attorney), so I went and bought it just because he said I couldn't. But when I listened to it (this was probably the first non-Jamaican rap I had ever heard) it literally made me sick. It was by 2LiveCrew, and the "songs" were all about horrible, inhuman violence to women presented in such a way that it was apparently meant to be normal, or even funny. I smashed it with a hammer. That was a turning point for me. There really is no comparison. Chet |
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22 Oct 99 - 08:26 PM (#126989) Subject: Lyr Add: SUGAR BABE (from Mance Lipscomb) From: Stewie Rick, here are Lipscomb's words. The source is 'Texas Songster' Arhoolie CD 306 - he said it was the first song that he learnt:
Sugar babe, I'm tired of you
All I want my baby to do
Went downtown and bought me a rope
Sugar babe what's the matter with you
Went to town and bought me a line Repeat first stanza |
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22 Oct 99 - 08:44 PM (#126995) Subject: RE: sugar babe From: Pelrad My goodness. When I was three years old this was my favorite song; I sang it over and over - at least, I sang "Sugar baby what's the matter with you? You don't love me like you used to. Sugar babe, it's all over now." so often I drove my parents nuts. I seem to remember some verse about standing around in the rain, too...Now I sort of know where it came from. I wonder which version my father had a recording of? Thanks for asking interesting questions around here! lol |
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22 Oct 99 - 08:46 PM (#126996) Subject: RE: sugar babe From: katlaughing Back in 1989 or so(?), when I didn't know about their lyrics, Chet, and when I was a real activist/rabblerouser, I protested with a bunch of teenagers , including my daughter, in Westerly, RI, because they weren't going to let 2livecrew hold a concert there. I was incensed about the censorship that represented to me at the time. Also, that was about the time their cops had pulled me over at night to harass and threaten me for my "No Blood For Oil" sign in my car window, protesting the gulf war, so I wasn't too impressed with the town, anyway, even though I loved the arts center I worked at. I know better now, but I still don't know if I would agree wiht censoring them. Definitely wouldn't let my kids go to it and they did NOT listen to them. We had allof the discussions early on about misogyny etc., so my girls wouldn't have anyway. Thanks, Fortunato, good choices IMHO. kat |
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22 Oct 99 - 09:16 PM (#127003) Subject: RE: sugar babe From: Chet W. Kat, of course you know I agree; NO government censorship. Popular censorship definitely. Parental censorship absolutely. But not the government. That was the only actual banning I had ever seen at the time, and I decided I wasn't having any. I ended up learning a lot from the experience. Chet
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22 Oct 99 - 10:33 PM (#127027) Subject: RE: sugar babe From: harpgirl ..."buzzard lope"...I thought it was "buzzin low"?...harpgirl |
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22 Oct 99 - 11:37 PM (#127070) Subject: RE: sugar babe From: katlaughing I wondered about that, too, harpy! Had this hilarious image in my mind of a scrawny looking buzzard, wings spread out wide open, loping across the prairie like some crazed heathen horde! No, buffalo stampede......look out for those buzzards! |
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23 Oct 99 - 07:12 AM (#127125) Subject: RE: sugar babe From: Roger in Baltimore Here with go with those old blues lyrics again. I thought I heard "Whipped that woman 'til she busted ope'". Any blues historians here? I would rather hear from someone who talked to Mance about the song. Having read some of Alan Lomax's transcriptions, I am very wary of anyone's transcriptions (even mine). Roger in Baltimore |
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23 Oct 99 - 07:57 AM (#127127) Subject: Lyr Add: SUGAR BABE (from Tom Rush) From: Tiger Here's the way Tom Rush does it. Sugar Babe - Tom Rush
Sugar baby, what's the matter with you,
Sugar baby, what's the matter with you,
All I want my sugar to do,
Goin' downtown and get me a line,
Goin' downtown and get me a rope,
Sugar baby, what's the matter with you,
Sugar baby, what's the matter with you,
Sugar baby, what's the matter with you, |
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23 Oct 99 - 09:15 AM (#127131) Subject: RE: sugar babe From: harpgirl ...ah Roger, I find the different interpretations of blues lyrics so fascinating...like dust my broom...maybe kat can find a discussion of this song with Mance on the web...harp |
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23 Oct 99 - 10:05 AM (#127140) Subject: RE: sugar babe From: Roger in Baltimore Harpgirl, Sorta like an aural Rorschach Test, eh? Big RiB |
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23 Oct 99 - 12:21 PM (#127172) Subject: RE: sugar babe From: katlaughing LOL! Big RiB! Harpy, I wasn't very successful. I did find a site for new cd reissues of a lot of his stuff by Arhoolie records. It has an audio of him doing Sugar Babe, here, which, if you can get past the net congestion, might offer an answer. katstillwatchingforlopingbuzzards |
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24 Oct 99 - 11:59 AM (#127479) Subject: RE: sugar babe From: Rockaday Johnnie The "Buzzard Lope" is a 20's or 30's dancestep ... |
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24 Oct 99 - 12:15 PM (#127485) Subject: RE: sugar babe From: katlaughing Ah, so "buzzard lope" it might jsut be, then. Thanks! |
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24 Oct 99 - 03:27 PM (#127547) Subject: RE: sugar babe From: Tiger I've since found several direct links of buzzard lope with Sugar Babe. That's gotta be it. I remember listening to the song a hundred times trying to figger it out. Thanks for the tips, guys. |
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24 Oct 99 - 11:47 PM (#127675) Subject: RE: sugar babe From: Rick B. Wow, you guys are incredible. I went away for the weekend and returned to find the many directions that this thread has taken. Informative, interesting, and often hilarious. I think I've found a new hang out. Thanks for all the lyrics. I think some cutting and pasting will allow me to do this song without offending anyone's sensibilities, including my own. |
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25 Oct 99 - 08:28 AM (#127731) Subject: RE: sugar babe From: harpgirl ...now will someone explain to me why Mance whips his baby until she finally begins to dance the "buzzard lope"? Is it like dancing while someone is shooting bullets around your feet?What the heck does this mean anyway?...harpgirl |
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25 Oct 99 - 10:39 AM (#127757) Subject: RE: sugar babe From: Fortunato Rick B.et al The source of the Mance Lipscomb lyrics are gone from my library. Sorry. But the Tom Rush version seems exactly right, just much longer than what I had, seems like Tom put together a couple of versions or made some up himself (imagine that!) fortunato
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25 Oct 99 - 10:16 PM (#127983) Subject: RE: sugar babe From: ddw I could be wrong on the time frame, but I have both versions of Sugar Babe and it seems to me Tom Rush had his out on an album before Mance ever went into a studio. It's possible Tom heard it from him, but I don't think so. Maybe some cyberwhiz could go into Tom's web site and ask him.... david |
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26 Oct 99 - 08:39 AM (#128128) Subject: RE: sugar babe From: Brian Hoskin Mance Lipscomb first recorded for Chris Strachwitz (Arhoolie Records) in 1960. Among the first songs he recorded, on a portable recorder set up in his home in Navasota, Texas, was Sugar Babe. This song, and the others he recorded in that session, were all released on two Arhoolie LPs later that same year. As far as I could gather from a quick look at Tom Rush's website, he didn't record (at least not studio albums) until 1962. Whether Rush learned his version from Lipscomb or not, I don't know, but it would appear to me that Lipscomb was first to record it. Although, David, you still might be right about Rush recording his version before Lipscomb ever went into a studio! Brian |
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22 Jan 00 - 06:21 PM (#166891) Subject: RE: sugar babe From: Stewie In this thread, there was considerable discussion about the meaning of 'buzzard lope'. I knew I had seen something about this somewhere, and I finally remembered where. The following might throw some light on the matter. Alan Lomax recorded the great Bessie Jones of the Georgia Sea Islands leading a song called 'The Buzzard Lope'. It has been reissued in the Lomax 'Southern Journey' series on Rounder - the final volume, volume 13, 'Earliest Times: Georgia Sea Island Songs for Everyday Living' Rounder CD 1713. The song itself has the words 'buzzard lope' only in its title. Lomax noted:
Bessie Jones leads a most beautiful and interesting African-American litany, which may be one of the most intact pieces of African dance in North America. It makes reference to a time when slaves were not given a proper burial. 'Throw me anywhere, Lord, in that old field' are the words of a slave identifying with Jesus at Golgotha, saying that, although he may be thrown in a field like carrion for the buzzards to eat, Jesus owns and chooses him. Bessie Jones gave a spoken introduction to the song:
Now this song, 'The Buzzard Lope', is one of the old plays that we had, as though the buzzard had found some carrion. And we playin' that this thing lyin' on the floor here is the carrion. And this boy here is acting as the buzzard, as he goin' around, and he goin' to pick out the carrion's eye, whether he's a cow or a dog or whatever he is. He going to pick out his eye, then he going to pull out his tail, and then he's going to [get] him after awhile, and he's going to run the dogs from him. This is not our real Buzzard Lope boy tonight, but his brother. Stewie. |
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14 Jul 00 - 09:26 AM (#257554) Subject: RE: sugar babe From: GUEST refresh |
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20 Mar 15 - 04:02 AM (#3695396) Subject: RE: Origins: Sugar Babe (Mance Lipscomb, Tom Rush, etc From: GUEST,Guest 2 I'd like to know the origins of sugar babe, myself, but back in the 60s it was a frequently played song, but in the structure used by Johnny Cash for what is known apparently as "Chattanooga Sugar Babe". Heard this on "Fresh Air" in a discussion with Cash's longtime Dobro man. Anyway in the 60s it was usually a clean version, so I was surprised that this version (using the structure I was familiar with) started out with reference to cocaine. I got to thinking that maybe a lot of the folk songs for us innocents then had been cleaned up from the originals that might have dated back to the 20s or 30s or even before. "Bawdy Ballads" might have been the title of a collection of lyrics back then. Of course you had to be familiar with ancient slang or regional dialects or know where to look it up if there was even a book that collected such things then. Other such dictionaries were appearing by the 60s or 70s to update the ancient tracts of the 30s. I know because I used to consult them in my work as a lexicographer. So what was the first recording of the structure used by Cash? I thought I heard the name Frank Jackson mentioned in the broadcast. Hmm? |
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20 Mar 15 - 11:42 AM (#3695513) Subject: RE: Origins: Sugar Babe (Mance Lipscomb, Tom Rush, etc From: GUEST,# Mance Lipscomb: Texas Sharecropper and Songster - Freddie (2:35) # - Sugar Babe, It's All Over Now (2:00) # from http://www.wirz.de/music/arhoofrm.htm That LP was released in 1960. |
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20 Mar 15 - 11:54 AM (#3695519) Subject: RE: Origins: Sugar Babe (Mance Lipscomb, Tom Rush, etc From: GUEST,# The man himself on YouTube. |
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15 Apr 15 - 02:18 PM (#3702014) Subject: RE: Origins: Sugar Babe (Mance Lipscomb, Tom Rush, etc From: GUEST,Joseph Scott "Mance Lipscomb recalls that Sugar Babe was the first song that he learned to play. This was at the age of 14, which would have been in 1919." He was born in 1895, so it would have been in about 1909. Mance wasn't always reliable on years, but best I can tell he did remember well about how old he was when he got all excited about playing three songs on the guitar ("Sugar Babe," "All Out And Down," and "Take Me Back"). As Mance pointed out, "All Out And Down" was basically (like the "Poor Boy Long Ways From Home" Gus Cannon said he heard in about 1900 and the "Got No More Home Than A Dog" that W.C. Handy said he heard before 1900) a blues song before anyone he knew was talking about so-called "blues songs" yet. (The earliest known example of anyone talking about "blues" music in Texas is from 1910.) "Sugar Babe" had that three-line-stanza, third-line-is-the-refrain form (e.g. "Railroad Bill," "Hop Joint") that was rampant in folk music in about 1895-1910. "Take Me Back" was well known to folk musicians and was based on an 1898 pop song. |
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23 Sep 15 - 02:17 AM (#3739216) Subject: RE: Origins: Sugar Babe (Mance Lipscomb, Tom Rush, etc From: GUEST,Win It's "buzzard Lope"... I learned it from Dave. Van Ronk. Buzzards Lope is an old dance.. Another verse, also from Dave's version is: Sugar babe, I'm tired of you, It ain't your honey but the way you do... |