|
18 Nov 01 - 10:46 AM (#595075) Subject: Tune Burnout From: Auxiris Hello, everyone. Now that the garden season has finished off—at least in my part of the world!—I hope to participate in various discussions at the Mudcat more frequently. My apologies for not having posted any stories recently. . . I'm still in gobsmacked awe of the collective story told here in the Forum by a group of very talented storytellers (see "The Drinking Gourd, Parts I and II").
Now, I have a musical question for all of you: is it my imagination, or do tunes (and songs, for that matter) go in and out of style? And, if so, in your opinion, why? Could it be because lots of folks learn "new" tunes from recordings for whatever reason? Is it because a musician who is very popular at a given time plays this or that tune that everyone seems to be learning it too? Or is it just plain old, cussed laziness? With so many tune collections out there, why is it that only a fraction get any action? cheers,
Aux Hopefully the machine will not chop the end off this post, but just in case it's feeling hungry, blah, blah, blah, blah, etc., etc., and so on and so forth. . . |
|
18 Nov 01 - 10:56 AM (#595078) Subject: RE: Tune Burnout From: Sorcha I know that I just get sick of a tune sometimes. Currently I am sick unto death of RedWing and You Are My Sunshine. It seems to the "dumb simple" ones and the oft requested ones I get sick of. Then, I'll go learn something new to tide me over. |
|
18 Nov 01 - 11:11 AM (#595085) Subject: RE: Tune Burnout From: Jeri My philosophy on the evolution of a tune:
Someone hears a tune, likes it and learns it. |
|
18 Nov 01 - 07:25 PM (#595311) Subject: RE: Tune Burnout From: MMario I think some tunes go in cycles - for example in Christmas carols - often there are several tunes for the lyrics - and for years you hear primarily one tune - then for one reason or another a different tune becomes popular and for a couple years you hear only that version. But sometimes it is regional |
|
18 Nov 01 - 09:09 PM (#595361) Subject: RE: Tune Burnout From: McGrath of Harlow But sometimes it is regional And sometimes (most times?) it is a lot more local than that. One fortunate effect of the music not being fashionable is that is it isn't quite so dominated by fashion. |
|
19 Nov 01 - 03:38 AM (#595466) Subject: RE: Tune Burnout From: Auxiris Then let me ask you all: how many of you go looking for and then learn tunes from tune collection books and then eventually play them either in concerts and/or in sessions? cheers, Aux |
|
19 Nov 01 - 05:55 AM (#595488) Subject: RE: Tune Burnout From: GUEST,Astorsen Of sessions and tunes, hey? I am not fan of participating to sessions as they turn out being either boring (tunes that are fashionnable for, say, 20 years) or held by leaders that play standards aand do not listen to others that may have to play. Hence local to very local fashions that are 95% the same wherever you are (within region). I like the discovery of new tunes so I must travel long distances to hear different sessions. Not being a champion at reading, I always look at a score very suspiciously, at first. But nowadays, there are user-friendly sofwares that makes it possible to hear a tune quite quickly. So now, I learn from scores and there are thousands of unheard tunes in these books. Maybe I have time to choose because I do not have the pressure of the next session... Too much of anything kills the anything in question. Salut, JL |
|
19 Nov 01 - 09:22 AM (#595550) Subject: RE: Tune Burnout From: MMario I'm always looking for new (at least "new to me") songs. |
|
19 Nov 01 - 09:36 AM (#595556) Subject: RE: Tune Burnout From: Sorcha The first thing I do when I buy a tune book is go through it and (try) to play all of them cold. Then, I give it a rating, 1-5. If a tune really grabs me the first time I play it, I learn it right then. Later, if I am bored with the cheat sheet, I go back and find one I liked earlier.
Problem is the BIG tune books. I've owned the Fake Book and Coles for 10 yrs and still haven't gotten all the way through! I have never had a problem like Astorsen; I play obscure tunes in sessions and they always seem to be well recieved. Sometimes others learn them, sometimes not. |
|
19 Nov 01 - 02:25 PM (#595729) Subject: RE: Tune Burnout From: Genie In the song circles I go to, there is usually almost a group orgasm over simple "beautiful" melodies--usually 3/4 or 4/4, slow to moderate tempo, and only about 4 chords. I think these tunes are pretty, too, but I notice with most of them that they are not "catchy" in the sense that I can distinctly hear the melody in my head after I leave the session. One reason is that they tend to be very similar to each other. I start singing one melody and it morphs into another of the same genre. [You know the old saying that there are only two Irish (or C/W) melodies--a slow one and a fast one.] The melodies I write are (deliberately) a little less predictable, though usually not terribly complicated. Often I get the feeling, when I introduce one, that their very novelty is grounds for a lukewarm reaction. [My tastes in other people's music are not unusual, and I don't write melodies I don't like, so I have no reason to think they're just bad melodies.] I don't know if this is what you folks mean by "tune burnout." I'm referring to melodic phrases and patterns, not specific songs. One thing that made Paul McCartney (and the other Beatles) so memorable as a songwriter is that the tunes don't all sound like each other or like other "pop" or "rock" music. Unfortunately, "folk" songs tend to have certain very predictable chord patterns, just as C & W does, etc. Anyway, I welcome tunes that are really memorable. When a really new one does come along, it's kind of sad if everyone (understandably) mimics it for their own songs.
|
|
19 Nov 01 - 05:13 PM (#595813) Subject: RE: Tune Burnout From: Auxiris What I meant by "tune burnout" is my impression that some tunes and/àr songs getting played to death while others sit waiting in books—or indeed, someone's memory—gathering dust. Just wanted to know what others think; I'm not putting a value judgement on the way people learn tunes or the source from which they learn them. However, I'm glad to know that there are some people taking the time to go through books. As a musical illiterate, I haven't been able to decipher them directly until recently. I now have some friendly computer software that helps me out and, with a little bit of luck, I may eventually learn to read music. cheers, Aux
|
|
19 Nov 01 - 05:26 PM (#595823) Subject: RE: Tune Burnout From: Steve in Idaho I think the "to death" part is in the hands of the musician. I find that a couple of my songs get requested at nearly every session, and I get sick of them (I have no idea how professionals go on the road and play the same dang tunes day in and day out for weeks and months), but I still do them. I also find that as I learn new songs my memory banks push the old ones out for a time. For example - right now I am starting to do "You Are My Sunshine" after a several year hiatus - and "Redwing" is something that gets played about half the time. The group I play with is quite varied and has several different styles that allow for different impressions of the same song amongst the various pickers. So a tune one week may be done differently next time - depends on who gets to it first. The other side is that I am pretty OK with setting out of a tune if I am burned out on it. Same with others although out of politeness we will provide rythym or harmony on about anything. I haven't experienced any tunes being left out - as when someone learns a new tune they are always pretty excited about showcasing it at the first opportunity. And we are pretty excited about learning it! And there will always be great songs out there that I will never hear simply because there isn't enough time left in my life to hear them all! That's why there are so many different musicians and styles - so nothing will go a wanting! See Sorcha has quit Sunshine and I am picking it up - that way it won't get lost!! Steve |
|
20 Nov 01 - 05:17 AM (#596185) Subject: RE: Tune Burnout From: 53 why don't you try downloading some mp-3s from either morpheus or kazaa and then you can get a big variety of material without having to spend money for a fakebook, that has the songs wrong to begin with and you have to go back and do the work anyway. BOB |
|
20 Nov 01 - 11:01 AM (#596394) Subject: RE: Tune Burnout From: Auxiris Guess that's one way to go at it, Bob, but why buy a "fakebook" in the first place when there are loads of other printed tune collections out there? cheers, Aux
|
|
21 Nov 01 - 10:09 AM (#597156) Subject: RE: Tune Burnout From: Tom French Some tunes don't burn out. About a month ago, traveling toward church where I play organ, I heard Ralph Vaughan-Williams "Variations on Divers & Lazarus." Perfect, a modal tune that touches down at unsuspected points, but continues to move in a rather normal scalar and sequential pattern. I listened carefully and decided to use the tune for a communion improvisation. The sound crystalized instantly in my head. When I got home I worked it out on the guitar clawhammer style in A minor. Later I realized that I used to hear John Roberts and Tony Barrand sing that same version of Divers & Lazarus, but since LP's died and the Best of Nowell Sing We Clear didn't include it. Being a contra dancer and a waltz buff, it again hit me that the tune was also "Star of the County Down" to which I had long waltzed. Of course the rhythm had changed to 3/4 from 4/4, as I suspect "Divers & Lazarus was the earlier of the two songs. Point is that some tunes are inately good and don't burnout of themselves. They re-emerge in new contexts. With a good theme, a musician can recreate multiple aspects of that same tune. You might say that good tunes long to show their infinite expressions and meanings. So if someone is playing the same (*_*$&^) song for the umteenth time, don't let it burn out. Change it. This can be done vocally just as, or maybe more, easily as instrumentally. The measure of a tune is how long it can change itself. |
|
21 Nov 01 - 11:17 AM (#597225) Subject: RE: Tune Burnout From: Steve in Idaho How true Tom - I discovered this last night while playing an old favorite - Just slowing it down and adding a bluesy touch changed it to something I really liked!! Steve |
|
21 Nov 01 - 12:09 PM (#597268) Subject: RE: Tune Burnout From: Lonesome EJ What exactly is a "fake book"? |
|
21 Nov 01 - 01:50 PM (#597362) Subject: RE: Tune Burnout From: Melani Of course there are fashions in tunes. The other day I commented to a friend that I wanted to learn a tune called "The Clumsy Lover," and he said, "Oh, yeah, that was popular in the '80's." I guess I'm out of fashion as usual. By the way, anybody know where I could find the music for that one? |
|
21 Nov 01 - 02:01 PM (#597370) Subject: RE: Tune Burnout From: Noreen aside to Tom French, "Star of the County Down" is still, in Ireland and probably most other countries of the world, played in 4/4 time. It would appear to be only in America (where I presume you are) that it has been converted to 3/4 time. I like the points you make. Noreen |
|
21 Nov 01 - 04:05 PM (#597463) Subject: RE: Tune Burnout From: GUEST,Les B. Lonesome EJ - A "fake" book is an anthology of common tunes, or sometimes songs, that has a straight-forward, simple melody and/or tab lines. I think the idea is for people to be able to "fake" their way through a tune if they don't have an arrangement of it. There is an excellent set of Fake books, by Oak I think, for fiddle, mandolin, guitar, and banjo that lay out a lot of standard fiddle, old timey, and bluegrass tunes that are fairly well known. There are also fake books for jazz and blues, I believe. |
|
21 Nov 01 - 05:14 PM (#597508) Subject: RE: Tune Burnout From: Celtic Soul I can't say for sure in general, but for *me* personally, they definitely do. There are songs that I need a break from once in awhile, and can go back to after giving them a rest. Then there are those that, if I never sang them again, it would be too soon. Unless we were to do something strange an unique with them and make them very different from the way we did them from the beginning of time. Guess which ones get requested the most often??? ;D |
|
21 Nov 01 - 05:15 PM (#597509) Subject: RE: Tune Burnout From: Celtic Soul I can't say for sure in general, but for *me* personally, they definitely do. There are songs that I need a break from once in awhile, and can go back to after giving them a rest. Then there are those that, if I never sang them again, it would be too soon. Unless we were to do something strange an unique with them and make them very different from the way we did them from the beginning of time. Guess which ones get requested the most often??? ;D |
|
22 Nov 01 - 01:08 AM (#597731) Subject: RE: Tune Burnout From: Kaleea Having performed since I was a small child, I learned early on that most all tunes/songs are loved by someone out there, and some will be more requested than others. A typist does not throw fits for having to type over and over the words "the" or "street" or "house" or whatever, because it is their job to type those words. I look upon songs/tunes in much the same way. I will admit, however, that there are some I would eradicate from this planet if the opportunity arose (Noreen, Star of the County Down in 3 would definitely be on the eradication list), however, a good musician does as did the late Lawrence Welk, who was popular even after his demise because he belived in his motto: "Give the people what they want!" |