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15 Mar 98 - 06:44 PM (#23852) Subject: Lyr/Tune Add: LAMORNA From: Baz This song enjoys considerable popularity in Cornwall at the moment and it is with some trepidation that I post it. As Merve Davey says in his book most Cornish singers will have a 'correct' version which will differ from this one and from each other. The Cornish words were provided in in1980 by Ken George of Torpoint. I have been unable to trace any origins for the song and it seems unlikely to be very old. However, the folk in this part of the world have embraced the song, possibly because Lamorna is a small coastal village at the other end of the bay from my home village. LAMORNA So now I'll sing to you It's about a maiden fair, I met the other evening At the corner of the square; She had a dark and roving eye And her hair was covered over, We rowed all night In the pale moonlight Way down to Lamorna. (Refrain) T'was down in Albert Square I never shall forget, Her eyes they shone like diamonds And the evening it was wet, wet, wet; And her hair hung down in curls Her face was covered over, We rowed all night In the pale moonlight Way down to Lamorna. As we got in the cab I asked her for her name, And when she gave it me Well with mine it was the same; So I lifted up her veil For her face was covered over; To my surprise It was my wife I took down to Lamorna. She said I know you know I knew you all along, I knew you in the dark; For I did it for a lark; And for that lark you'll pay For the taking of your donna, You'll pay the fare I do declare Way down to Lamorna. MIDI file: lamorna.mid Timebase: 480 Tempo: 145 (413793 microsec/crotchet) This program is worth the effort of learning it. To download the January 15 MIDItext 98 software and get instructions on how to use it click here ABC format: X:1
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16 Mar 98 - 03:47 PM (#23912) Subject: RE: LYR + TUNE add LAMORNA From: Bert I have always thought it to be a most improbable story but the tune is so good that I sing it now and then. The version I have is from The Yetties and in it they "rode all night" and he was "taking of his donah". Donah being a Cockney expression meaning girlfriend (or wife). I always wondered where Lamorna was. It would certainly be a long drive from London in a horse drawn cab, and would have taken several days. Which brings up the question, Where is Albert Square? would it be in some west country city like Bristol. Or would that also be too far away? I have always assumed that it was a music hall song that was written towards the end of the 19th. Century. Which would account for how the London slang could travel to Cornwall. |
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17 Feb 02 - 01:40 PM (#652194) Subject: RE: LYR + TUNE add LAMORNA From: Snuffy I thought it was Bristol when I first heard it, but according to the Yetties, the song could well refer to Manchester. Pomona Docks are at the end of the Manchester Ship Canal (opened in the 1890s), and Albert Square is in Manchester city centre. This would make it just over 100 years old at the most. Incidentally, the Yetties have "She was a charming rover" instead of "Her hair/face was covered over" in Verse 1 and chorus, but retain "Her face was covered over" in Verse 2. WassaiL! V |
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17 Feb 02 - 04:36 PM (#652280) Subject: RE: LYR + TUNE add LAMORNA From: Susanne (skw) The Spinners also recorded it ('All Day Singing', 1977). Their succinct - and possibly erroneous - info is 'From Cornwall'. It does sound more like a music hall song. Could it be from the London music hall about a Manchester couple? |
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17 Feb 02 - 06:20 PM (#652322) Subject: RE: LYR + TUNE add LAMORNA From: Herga Kitty Refresh for Llanfranc |
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17 Feb 02 - 07:08 PM (#652346) Subject: RE: LYR + TUNE add LAMORNA From: vectis I was always told that "they rode all night" came from the habit of couples hiring a cab with curtained windows so that the two could "be alone" for several hours if necessary. Women (possibly married) would disguise themselves with a veil so that they would not be recognised by their aquaintances while they picked up a young stud for the evening. Likewise men would be able to hire a woman from the anonimity of a dark, curtained interior. Albert Square is supposed to be in Penzance. I originally thought that the couple rowed (a boat) but the coast is so rugged that it would not have been possible to have courted in this manner. Hope this answers your questions |
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19 Feb 02 - 03:22 AM (#653215) Subject: RE: LYR + TUNE add LAMORNA From: Dave Bryant Lamorna Cove is about 6 miles south west of Penzance - just round the coast from Mousehole (of Tom Bawcock and Starry Gazey Pie fame). I think that puts the song firmly in the Penzance area. Mevyn Vincent always sang very similiar words to the Yetties version - perhaps someone should ask the Yetties where they got their version - they have a website somewhere. |
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20 Feb 02 - 06:37 AM (#653877) Subject: MidiText Link From: Dave Bryant BAZ, your MidiText link fails. Have you or anyone else got a working one. |
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20 Feb 02 - 03:24 PM (#654129) Subject: RE: LYR + TUNE add LAMORNA From: GUEST,Kernow John Dave You are right the link no longer works, sorry. If you pm I'll email you a midi or gif file of the dots.<>br> KJ |
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20 Feb 02 - 03:29 PM (#654132) Subject: RE: LYR + TUNE add LAMORNA From: MMario current miditxt link is http://miditext.8m.net |
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13 Aug 07 - 08:22 AM (#2124667) Subject: Pomona/Lamorna Song From: greg stephens I have looked in some other threads on this and related topics, and googled a bit, but haven't found exactly what I am looking for. The song "Away down to Lamorna" is generally reckoned to be a Cornish remake of a Manchester song about the pleasure gardens at Pomona(pre-Ship Canal Pomona Dock days). What I haven't found is a reference to the lyrics and/or tune of the original Manc version, can anybody help? I have seen it somewhere on the internet, and possibly in a Mudcat thread, but so far I haven't tracked it down again. |
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13 Aug 07 - 10:18 AM (#2124754) Subject: RE: Pomona/Lamorna Song From: Flash Company Never came across this, Greg, but it would explain something. As a near Mancunian with Cornish interests, I have always been puzzled by the opening line:- 'Twas down in Albert Square, I never will forget.... There aint an Albert Square in Lamorna, but there sure is in Manchester! FC |
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14 Aug 07 - 02:58 AM (#2125021) Subject: RE: Pomona/Lamorna Song From: greg stephens I am absolutely sure this was originally a Mancunian song...but the more nationalist Lamorna fans do point out there is an Albert Square in nearby Penzance! But seriously, the song makes no sense at all in a Lamorna context, anmd every possible sense in thew context of a Mancunian lad taking a lady of easy virtue down to the Pomona pleasure gardens by the Irwell in a carriage. And words and sheet music exist for the Manchester version, I have been told, but I can't find them. |
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14 Aug 07 - 03:41 AM (#2125040) Subject: RE: Pomona/Lamorna Song From: IanC Greg I think This Thread has what you're looking for. The lyrics are here. :-) |
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14 Aug 07 - 05:57 AM (#2125076) Subject: RE: Pomona/Lamorna Song From: The PA I always thought the story went that he met her in Albert Square and then they travelled to Lamorna, so it doesnt matter that there is not an Albert Square in Lamorna. The Albert Square in question, could be anywhere I suppose, especially as they rode all night, through the pale moon light! Possibly from Albert Square in Manchester, to Lamorna in Cornwall. There, now everybody's happy. |
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14 Aug 07 - 09:46 AM (#2125176) Subject: RE: Pomona/Lamorna Song From: Flash Company As a regular traveller from Manchester to Cornwall, It is now such a complicated journey that, if your interest was in a frolic with a lady you met in Albert Square, Manchester, you would have lost the urge long before you got there! FC |
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14 Aug 07 - 10:37 AM (#2125197) Subject: RE: Pomona/Lamorna Song From: The PA That figures, it turned out to be the wife, didn't it? |
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14 Aug 07 - 12:04 PM (#2125252) Subject: RE: Pomona/Lamorna Song From: greg stephens IanC: many thanks for the link, that is just what I was looking for. Now, to complete the jigsay, ar there any Mancunian versions of the tune, pre-dating any Cornish versions? |
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23 Aug 07 - 03:32 PM (#2132194) Subject: Lyr Add: DOWN TO POMONA / AWAY DOWN TO LAMORNA From: greg stephens Just to make this thread complete, here are the original Manchester lyics that IanC referred to in a previous post. DOWN TO POMONA Now I'm going to sing, A nice young lady fair, I met some time ago, At the corner of Albert Square. She had a lovely jet black eye, I thought I should like to own her, For in a voice so sweet she asked of me The way down to Pomona. We met in Albert Square, And I never shall forget, Her eyes they shone like stars, Thought the evening it was wet. The hair it hung in curls. Of this lovely little Donah, As we drove that night in great delight, Away down to Pomona. My heart beat like a drum, As I answered her with pride, Yes, and if you have no objections, I will take you there beside. She blushed and answered yes, The I fell in love all over, For a cab I sent and off we went, Away down to Pomona. We'd scarce got in the cab, When she asked me for my name, I gave it to her then, And asked of her the same. When she lifted up the fall, Which her face had covered over, Upon my life she was my wife, I was taking down to Pomona. She said sir you know me now, that we're not in the dark, I said, yes love, before now, But I thought I would have a lark, Then for your larking you shall pay, And forgetting your lovely Donah, You shall have it to say, you had to pay, For your wife into Pomona. Interesting to see what time and a transplantion to Cornwall have done: here is a fairly standard Cornish pub type version. AWAY DOWN TO LAMORNA A song I'll sing to you, about a maiden fair, I met the other evening at the corner of the square. She'd a dark and roving eye, she was a charming rover, We rode all night,in the pale moonlight away down to Lamorna Chorus Twas down in Albert square I never shall forget, Her eyes they shone like diamonds and the evening it was wet, wet, wet. Her hair hung down in curls, she was a charming rover, And we rode all night, through the pale moonlight, away down to Lamorna As we got in the cab, I asked her for her name, And when she gave it to to me, well, mine it was the same, So I lifted up her veil, for her face was covered over, Upon my life it was my wife, I took down to Lamorna Chorus She said, I know you now, I knew you all along, I knew you in the dark, but I did it for a lark, And for that lark you'll pay, for the taking of the donah: You'll pay the fare, for I declare, away down to Lamorna Chorus |
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22 Feb 12 - 02:22 AM (#3311738) Subject: RE: LYR + TUNE add LAMORNA From: GUEST,cockneybanjo I learnt this song as a pub song when I was a student at Camborne school of Mines in the 1970s. I suspect the "Yetties" version is probably mainly responsible for its resurgence in popularity, the lyrics do vary considerably although the story is the same. It's a good song, though. |
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22 Feb 12 - 03:32 AM (#3311740) Subject: RE: Lyr/tune ADD: Lamorna From: Snuffy Here's a copy of the 19th century broadside a the Bodleian Library in Oxford, where the song is set firmly in Manchester and the Pomona pleasure gardens. It also contains an extra verse not usually sung nowadays. And more information here on Mudcat in Thread 55861 |
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22 Feb 12 - 04:53 AM (#3311750) Subject: RE: Lyr/tune ADD: Lamorna From: Musket I always sing it as per the Pomona Palace dance hall that was just off Albert Square at Pomona docks, now part of Salford Quays. Whether that is the origin or whether some words were just about near enough to make it about Pomona, I don't know, but that's how I introduce it. Thinking on, I first heard The Two Beggarmen introduce it as that, although my first recollection of the song was the late Tom Brown used to sing it regularly at The Boundary in Worksop many years ago. (Old Tom possibly introduced it as first hearing it at his mother's knee, as per every song he did, bless him.) |
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25 Jan 17 - 11:53 AM (#3834773) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomona/Lamorna Song From: GUEST,J. Barnes Hi, I was just looking around about this song " A way down to Lamorna. This was written by my Great great Grandfather Thomas Matthews who lived in St Buryan Cornwall. I have a letter from the BBC who wanted to record my Grandfather and his brothers to record it. Nothing ever happened as my Grandfather died and my Gran didn't want to bother at the time. |
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25 Jan 17 - 03:49 PM (#3834835) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomona/Lamorna Song From: GUEST,Jim I What a coincidence! I had never heard of this song until this afternoon when Bob Tryer sang it at our afternoon session in the White Star Liverpool. And now it pops up on Mudcat this evening |
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25 Jan 17 - 08:45 PM (#3834893) Subject: RE: Lyr/tune ADD: Lamorna From: FreddyHeadey more info following the Manchester references above "Pomona Gardens was a public pleasure grounds. The gardens were originally known as the Cornbrook Strawberry Gardens. They were in existence before the mid-19th-century and occupied a site close to the Bridgewater Canal next to Chester Road at Cornbrook. The grounds were purchased and developed by James Reilly in 1868 and included many attractions such as a ballroom and agricultural halls. The gardens were closed in the 1880s as a result of the land being acquired for the extension of the docks. Reilly was eventually paid £70,352 in compensation for the twenty one acre site. Location information: Address: Off Cornbrook Road, Old Trafford, M5 3FT Locality: Trafford, Greater Manchester Local Authorities: Greater Manchester; Trafford Historical County: Lancashire OS Landranger Map Sheet Number: 109 Grid Ref: SJ820969 Latitude: 53.4685 Longitude: -2.27262 Key information: Form of site: garden Context or principal building: maritime Site first created: Before 1868 Main period of development: Early 19th century Survival: Lost Site Size (Hectares): 2" " History Site timeline 1880 to 1889: The gardens were closed in the 1880s as a result of the land being acquired for the extension of the docks. Record created: 22/01/2009 " Map etc: http://www.parksandgardens.org/places-and-people/site/6477 |
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26 Jan 17 - 07:13 AM (#3834964) Subject: RE: Lyr/tune ADD: Lamorna From: FreddyHeadey Other threads(including this one): Lyr Req: Pomona/Lamorna Song thread.cfm?threadid=104003 Lyr/tune ADD: Lamorna thread.cfm?threadid=4387 Lyr Req: Down in Albert Square thread.cfm?threadid=55861 WEt Wet Wet and Lamorna/Pomona? thread.cfm?threadid=73133 Posts on another thread thread.cfm?threadid=4211#43378
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27 Jan 17 - 01:28 PM (#3835203) Subject: RE: Lyr/tune ADD: Lamorna From: Joe Offer Thread #4211 Message #43381 Posted By: Bert 27-Oct-98 - 10:21 AM Thread Name: Lyr/Tune Add: Helston Hal an Tow Subject: Lyr Add: WAY DOWN TO LAMORNA
From memory... |
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03 Mar 19 - 09:56 AM (#3980034) Subject: RE: Origins: Down to Pomona/Lamorna Song From: GUEST,Peter Wray greg stephens…. I live in Penzance, and there is an Albert Street but no Albert Square. The song is Mancunian in origin, and was adapted to fit a Cornish locality. |
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02 Apr 23 - 02:27 PM (#4169056) Subject: RE: Origins: Down to Pomona/Lamorna Song From: Nigel Parsons For a modern take on the tale, compare it with 'Escape' by Rupert Holmes. (better known as the Pina Colada song) |
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02 Apr 23 - 02:42 PM (#4169058) Subject: RE: Origins: Down to Pomona/Lamorna Song From: Dave the Gnome Every time I see this discussion I have to point out that it is patently Mancunian. Pamona Gardens were an easy walk and easier ride from Albert Square in Manchester. There is no such link with Lamorna. It's like Dirty Old Town being about Dublin! |
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02 Apr 23 - 02:50 PM (#4169060) Subject: RE: Origins: Down to Pomona/Lamorna Song From: GUEST As an someone that worked on Manchester Docks and sailed with Manchester Liners its Pomona! |
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03 Apr 23 - 03:18 AM (#4169102) Subject: RE: Origins: Down to Pomona/Lamorna Song From: Dave the Gnome It is indeed, Guest. Apologies for my lack of preef roofing! |
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03 Apr 23 - 03:19 AM (#4169103) Subject: RE: Origins: Down to Pomona/Lamorna Song From: Dave the Gnome ...but it is Salford docks :-D |
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03 Apr 23 - 04:15 AM (#4169107) Subject: RE: Origins: Down to Pomona/Lamorna Song From: GUEST,RJM Brenda Wooton will be turning in her grapefruit, and someone here is trying to say their grandfather wrote it in Cornwall .we need a seance |
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04 Apr 23 - 02:31 AM (#4169196) Subject: RE: Origins: Down to Pomona/Lamorna Song From: GUEST,RJM I suppose Brenda was doing a bit of Cornish PADDY WHACKERY |
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04 Apr 23 - 04:49 AM (#4169204) Subject: RE: Origins: Down to Pomona/Lamorna Song From: GUEST,Derrick Perhaps the site below will help settle the question of the origin of the song Lamorna. https://cornishnationalmusicarchive.co.uk/content/lamorna/ |
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04 Apr 23 - 05:49 AM (#4169208) Subject: RE: Origins: Down to Pomona/Lamorna Song From: Steve Shaw We will definitely be singing it on Friday afternoon when Friggin' Riggin' perform at Bude Memory Café! A solidly Cornish do if ever there was one! |
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09 Apr 23 - 05:29 AM (#4169520) Subject: RE: Origins: Down to Pomona/Lamorna Song From: Dave the Gnome Thanks Derrick. I think other broadsides and music hall songs suffered from similar adaptations by region. The one that springs to mind straight off is Pretty Polly Perkins or Cushie Butterfield. I'm sure there must be many others |
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09 Apr 23 - 07:22 AM (#4169529) Subject: RE: Origins: Down to Pomona/Lamorna Song From: GUEST Cornish became extinct as a living community language in Cornwall at the end of the 18th century. The claim that it Cornish is dubious. |
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09 Apr 23 - 07:53 AM (#4169532) Subject: RE: Origins: Down to Pomona/Lamorna Song From: Dave the Gnome See Derrick's link, Guest. States quite clearly what the origins are. |
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09 Apr 23 - 08:00 AM (#4169533) Subject: RE: Origins: Down to Pomona/Lamorna Song From: Steve Shaw The Cornish language is by no means extinct. |
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09 Apr 23 - 10:23 AM (#4169545) Subject: RE: Origins: Down to Pomona/Lamorna Song From: GUEST It does not originate from Cornwall The lyrics to Lamorna started life as a Broadside called “Down to Pomona”. Pomona was a nineteenth Century Zoological park in Manchester with a notoriously expensive admission fee intended to discourage working class people, thus the twist in the last verse. It is thought that it was provided with a tune and a Cornish twist in the early 1900s. by Charles Lee a novelist specialising in stories about Cornwall.. Cornish is a revived language, having become extinct as a living community language in Cornwall at the end of the 18th century. |
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09 Apr 23 - 10:30 AM (#4169547) Subject: RE: Origins: Down to Pomona/Lamorna Song From: Dave the Gnome Looks like a Dick cut and paste without acknowledgement to me. I think we should probably ignore it! |
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09 Apr 23 - 12:55 PM (#4169556) Subject: RE: Origins: Down to Pomona/Lamorna Song From: GUEST From https://cornishnationalmusicarchive.co.uk/content/lamorna/ acknowledgement to you?, it was Derrick that posted the link |
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09 Apr 23 - 01:36 PM (#4169558) Subject: RE: Origins: Down to Pomona/Lamorna Song From: Nigel Parsons Looks like a Dick cut Sounds uncomfortable ;) |
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09 Apr 23 - 01:42 PM (#4169560) Subject: RE: Origins: Down to Pomona/Lamorna Song From: Dave the Gnome Nice one Nigel:-D |
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09 Apr 23 - 01:51 PM (#4169562) Subject: RE: Origins: Down to Pomona/Lamorna Song From: GUEST Subject: RE: Origins: Down to Pomona/Lamorna Song From: Dave the Gnome Date: 02 Apr 23 - 02:42 PM Every time I see this discussion I have to point out that it is patently Mancunian. Pamona Gardens were an easy walk and easier ride from Albert Square in Manchester. There is no such link with Lamorna. It's like Dirty Old Town being about Dublin! |
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09 Apr 23 - 05:40 PM (#4169569) Subject: RE: Origins: Down to Pomona/Lamorna Song From: Steve Shaw I'm from Manchester (ish) but have lived in Kernow for 35 years, and I have no problem with the song being from oop north. I just like singing the bugger! |
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10 Apr 23 - 06:43 AM (#4169595) Subject: RE: Origins: Down to Pomona/Lamorna Song From: GUEST,Phil Edwards sans cookie I've heard (and joined in) "Down to Pomona" many times around Manchester - Ann Cojeen used to lead it. I've also heard "Down to Lamorna", in Cornwall, and I'd say it was a different song, or at least in the process of becoming a different song. I talk about this a bit here (the pub in question was the Blue Anchor in Helston). |
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14 Apr 23 - 04:19 AM (#4169878) Subject: RE: Origins: Down to Pomona/Lamorna Song From: GeoffLawes Lamorna - Brenda Wootton on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmOJLXKkeW8 |
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14 Apr 23 - 08:07 AM (#4169897) Subject: RE: Origins: Down to Pomona/Lamorna Song From: GUEST,henryp This is a good example of introducing local names into an older song. From Wikipedia; Inglis Gundry notes in his introduction to Canow Kernow (published by the Federation of Old Cornwall Societies, 1966): '...the process of balladry still goes on. In the Logan Rock Inn at Treen a popular song called Way down Albert Square is gradually being transformed into a folk-song called Lamorna." And at the time of the publication of his seminal collection of songs and dances from Cornwall he did not consider the song sufficiently old or important enough to be included in his selection. From Discogs; Pasties and Cream; Brenda Wootton, John the Fish, Cornish Folk Sentinel Records, Newlyn, 1971 Their second LP; their first was released in 1968. Lamorna, Traditional, sung by Pipers Folk; Great controversy over this song. In the version I know, the 'cab' is supposed to be Old Jorys jingle that ran from the First and Last in Penzance and Albert Square in St. Just 'away down to Lamorna'. Our Friends The Yetties; Argo, 1971. Their fourth LP; their first was released in 1969. Lamorna, Arranged By – Yetties Written By – Trad. |
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14 Apr 23 - 10:56 AM (#4169908) Subject: RE: Origins: Down to Pomona/Lamorna Song From: GUEST Brenda Wootton was a good singer, but she was also a professional Cornish type I remember going and playing Bodmin folk club and then Scilly isles club several times and then hearing a recording of her singing it on the ferry It has a lovely tune and good words but in my opinion its a bit of Cornish Whackery., all part of promoting Cornish tourisMm Stage Cornwall. but each to their own Dave the Gnome said I have to point out that it is patently Mancunian. Pamona Gardens were an easy walk and easier ride from Albert Square in Manchester. There is no such link with Lamorna. It's like Dirty Old Town being about Dublin! |
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