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18 May 02 - 08:38 PM (#713172) Subject: Boys of Kilmichael - Music & History From: Finn McCool Catters, Anyone out there have the chords for Boys of Kilmichael? I have been able to find lots of info about the origins of the tune and several alternative lyrics on the Net, but no chords. Also, for those famiiar with the history of the times, if there was no false surrender by the Auxilliaries (B&T's) to justify the "clean sweep of them all", maybe we should not be singing this piece. What do you think? --Finn |
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18 May 02 - 08:48 PM (#713175) Subject: RE: Boys of Kilmichael From: Gaffer I think the tune's "Rosin the Beau" so you might get some chords from that. |
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18 May 02 - 10:03 PM (#713202) Subject: RE: Boys of Kilmichael From: masato sakurai Click here for sound clip of "The Boys Of Kilmichael". Related thread is: Rosin the Beau Parodies. ~Masato |
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19 May 02 - 03:23 AM (#713299) Subject: RE: Boys of Kilmichael From: Big Tim Tom Barry always maintained that there was a false surrender. But then he would. I don't think that we'll ever now know the truth. Personally, it doesn't matter to me, it's always been one of my favourite rebel songs. Personally, I think it was a massacre but there were plenty other massacres, by both sides, during the War of Independence, and throughout Irish history, too numerous to even begin to list. Thought to have been written by a local school teacher immediately after the "incident". The tune is the same as "Rosin the Bow" but I think the composer had William Rooney's "Men of the West" (1901)more in mind: same tune, same structure, even same phrase or two. A good, objective, account is given in "The IRA and its Enemies: Violence and Community in Cork, 1916-1923" by Peter Hart. Clarendon Press, Oxford,1998. ISBN 0 19 820806 5 (paperback). This sounds like an interesting topic but I'll have to leave it here, I'm off to Ireland in two hours.
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19 May 02 - 04:45 AM (#713308) Subject: RE: Boys of Kilmichael From: Big Tim Just before I dash: what's the last word in the song? "the faraway camp of" - Granure? Glandore? or what? The IRA did have a base at Glandore, according to Tim Pat Coogan's biography of Michael Collins. If Granure, where is it? |
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19 May 02 - 06:05 AM (#713333) Subject: RE: Boys of Kilmichael From: Fiolar Granure is a townland roughly 10 miles to the south-east of the town of Dunmanway and map reference 51 degrees, 42 minutes North and Longitude 9 degrees West (as near as dammit). It probably means in Irish (The Place of the)"Grove of Yew Trees." That area close to where I grew up had several place name associated with the Yew tree. Sadly the trees have long vanished. If the lads had to avoid the main roads after the ambush, it was a hell of a trek across country. |
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19 May 02 - 11:25 AM (#713441) Subject: RE: Boys of Kilmichael From: masato sakurai On the Kilmichael ambush, see Kilmichael, The Kilmichael Ambush, and Tom Barry. Origins of the tune have been discussed HERE (Rosin the Bow). ~Masato |
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19 May 02 - 08:23 PM (#713721) Subject: RE: Boys of Kilmichael From: GUEST,firínne |
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19 May 02 - 08:26 PM (#713722) Subject: RE: Boys of Kilmichael From: GUEST,firínne The tune is 'The Men of the West' And everybody knows that song! |
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27 May 02 - 05:05 PM (#718318) Subject: RE: Boys of Kilmichael From: Big Tim Fiolar: picking up the thread having just got back from the old country. Can't find Granure on the OS 1:50000 map, sheet 86. Closest I can find is "Garranure" about a mile and a half east, and very slighly south, of Ballynacarriga. Could this be the same place? This location is very close to Tom Barry's "11 miles south east of Kilmichael - just across the Manch Bridge[on Bandon river]". Yes: the men must have been shatterd, mentally and physically, having marched 26 miles, gone 30 hours without sleep and experienced a "fire fight", the first for most of them, in which 20 men died, 17 Auxies, 3 IRA. As a matter of interest, the battle took place about 2 miles south of Kilmichael, itself only about 10 miles from where Michael Collins was killed. |
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28 May 02 - 09:14 AM (#718721) Subject: RE: Boys of Kilmichael From: Fiolar Big Tim: Yes, that is the place. It is spelt different in every map, but the correct spelling when I went to school was "Granure" and that is how all the people who lived in the area knew it. Incidentally, "Ballynacarriga" was know as "Ballinacarriga." Again some folk outside the area even used the word "Bealnacarriga." All these different words as you know mean different things in Irish. Ballinacarriga castle itself is built on a rock overlooking the lake to the south and the river which runs out of it and flows to the west of the castle and which is a tributary of the Bandon river to the north of the castle. It thus had a good defensive position as the land to the south and north were almost impassible at the time. The west was a sheer cliff and the main entrance faces east. Back to boyhood days when I spent many happy hours exploring it as well fishing in the river. Incidentally the river which flows into and out of the lake is called the "Caol" which is the Irish for "narrow" but in this case the correct name is "Cale" which apparently is a pre-Celtic word for "river." Seriously ancient. Sadly the history of the place I grew up in was never really discussed at school and in a place awash with tradition that was sad. History lesson over for today. |
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28 May 02 - 04:36 PM (#718998) Subject: RE: Boys of Kilmichael From: Big Tim Thanks Fiolar: that is very interesting and helpful. I am fascinated by the origins of Gaelic place names. Tom Barry mentions Ballynacarriga in his book saying that the local Ballynacarriga IRA had organised scouts, supplied food, etc, so I strongly suspected that Granure and Garranure were the same place, but thanks for the confirmation. Re "Caol" - I live in the Cowal Peninsula in Argyll - same derivation! Careful perusal of the same OS map also shows the "birthplace of Michael Collins" marked. Some of the Boys of Kilmichael participated in his killing. |
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28 May 02 - 05:40 PM (#719033) Subject: RE: Boys of Kilmichael From: paddymac It's a good bet that history recorded here on the 'cat will make it to the hands of folks who care. Thanks! |
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29 May 02 - 09:25 AM (#719430) Subject: RE: Boys of Kilmichael From: Fiolar Big Tim: One of my uncles was one of the local "lads" in Ballinacarriga at the time. He later received a medal from the Irish President which I have still got. I grew up in an area in which many of the young men had been involved in one way or another in the War of Independence. When I knew them they were all into middle age or getting on a bit. Very few of them ever discussed the times, somewhat similar to the survivors of the World War One. Only a few really like Tom Barry and Liam Deasy ever wrote about it.An interesting side note regarding Barry and Deasy and I quote from the introduction to the book "Brother against Brother" by Liam Deasy as follows."In 1973 he (Deasy) published his account of the fight against the British in West Cork in a book called 'Towards Ireland Free.' Tom Barry, who was only in the movement a short time before the Truce and who knew little of what really happened in West Cork, took exception to a number of things Deasy said and wrote a rather hysterical pamphlet which was immediately rejected by a group of the surviving members of the West Cork Brigade." If you can get hold of the book "Towards Ireland Free" it's worth while as it gives a very detailed picture of the period 1917 to 1921 and has a good description of the Kilmichael Ambush by Paddy O'Brien. It was published by the Mercier Press, Cork but more than likely it is out of print for many years. If interested try the Bantry Book Shop at www.bantrybk.com who have a good service. |
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29 May 02 - 10:29 AM (#719476) Subject: RE: Boys of Kilmichael From: Big Tim Of course Pat Deasy, age 16, brother of Liam was one the three IRA men killed at Kilmichael. In Peter Hart's book which I quoted above there is a good account of the ambush, pro-/anti Barry points, false surrender, massacre/battle arguments. Hart conducted extensive interviews with two of the surviving "Boys", 1988-94. His conclusion is inconclusive! saying, basically, that the reality is gone, and that people on both sides of the debate will believe what they want to believe. It all happened so fast, there was a lot of shock and trauma, so even those who were there cannot be certain of the full, accurate picture. One thing seems certain: the IRA killed some of the Auxies after they had been captured. "Barry made us", said one of the "Boys" quoted by Hart, at the time of writing a history lecturer at Queens University, Belfast. Hart says the song MAY have been written by Jememiah O'Mahony, a local teacher. I learned the song when I was very young, from my father in Donegal, and will always sing it, despite everything. |
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21 Feb 15 - 07:50 PM (#3688740) Subject: RE: Chords Req: The Boys of Kilmichael From: GUEST,17 Feb 2015 Ballynacarriga seems to me to be a poor Anglicization of baile na carraig; translating to Town of the rocks, perhaps Fred Flinstone resides there :) I'm looking for the Lyrics to this song as sung by Cork balladeer Jimmy Crowley went something like this from memory, forget not the boys of Kilmichael Those true hearted brave volunteers Who fought for Tom Barry's bauld (sic bold) column For the Orange the White and the Green |
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21 Feb 15 - 07:51 PM (#3688741) Subject: RE: Chords Req: The Boys of Kilmichael From: GUEST,# (17 Feb 2015) http://www.irish-folk-songs.com/the-boys-of-kilmichael-lyrics-and-chords.html Chords there. |
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21 Feb 15 - 07:52 PM (#3688742) Subject: RE: Chords Req: The Boys of Kilmichael From: GUEST,Out O'Toon (17 Feb) Started working on this song, that progression in previous link sounds wrong to me, try working off this 3/4 time signature standard tuning, key of C, capo on 2nd fret probably better for most i just sing a little lower when you re-(C)member in (C)song and in (G)sto-(Am)ry; the (C)memory of (Am)Pearse and Mc(F)Bride 1st half of verse C C G Am C Am F F C C G Am C G C C 2nd half of verse and chorus are same progression C G Am Am C C Am Am C C Am F (possibly C C F F haven't made up my mind yet) C G C C
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22 Dec 19 - 11:33 AM (#4024891) Subject: RE: Chords Req: The Boys of Kilmichael From: GUEST Meda Ryan wrote a very good biography of Tom Barry and she met him in Cork in 1980 a short time before died. Peter Hart RIP was a revisionist and his account of Kilmichael is inaccurate. He claimed that he had spoken to survivors of the ambush, but Meda Ryan proved this was not true as they were all dead at the time he mentioned except for one who had severe dementia at the time. Unfortunately Harte born 1961 who died a young man of cancer and who was a Canadian for some reason supported the lies of the British Empire at the time. Ghords in G are G C Em G C G D G Chorus G C G Em G C G D G. I was in Cork the weekend of Barry's Funeral with my GAA Club from Dublin in the summer od 1980. Ar Dheis Dé go raibh a Anam. |