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11 Jun 02 - 09:42 PM (#728029) Subject: Theme Park 'Folk Music' From: Celtic Soul I'd just like to share a recent experience at Busch Gardens in Williamsburg, VA. (USA) while on a trip for my daughters birthday. This particular Busch (as in the beer people) Gardens has the theme of "The Old Country". To this, they have sectioned off parts of the park as "Germany", "France", "Italy", "Scotland", "New France" (Canada), and "England". This year, they opened a new "Country"..."Ireland". Everyone does bad Irish accents, and they sell lots of Michael Flatley tapes in the gift shops. But the thing that stood out most in my mind was the choice of music for their street folk band. "When Irish Eyes Are Smiling"??? With all the wonderful Irish folk music that has been in the focus here in the States for several years now... I know...it's a theme park, and that is what the masses really do expect of the Irish (the same way they expect Sinatra tunes and are not disappointed down in the Italian section). What do you folk think on that...might they step out on a limb and educate folks a little about the real music from these wonderful countries? |
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11 Jun 02 - 09:48 PM (#728030) Subject: RE: Theme Park 'Folk Music' From: Dave Swan The background music aboard the Columbia in Disneyland is sea chanteys as sung by the Norman Luboff chorale. Don't think about that for too long. |
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11 Jun 02 - 09:52 PM (#728032) Subject: RE: Theme Park 'Folk Music' From: CarolC troll is currently in Japan doing a six month gig at the Disney Tokyo Resort. I wonder what sort of music he's playing there. I think he does Irish and Klezmer when he's here in the States (although I'm not certain about the Irish part). |
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11 Jun 02 - 11:25 PM (#728065) Subject: RE: Theme Park 'Folk Music' From: Phil Cooper Margaret and I played at Six Flag/Great America, years ago. We played what we usually play, got paid well. But, what struck us was that Great America was set up like a small American town in the 1890's or so, but without the horse shit on the streets. Only the positive side of life is reflected..... They're not presenting music as the main focus. |
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12 Jun 02 - 01:48 AM (#728119) Subject: RE: Theme Park 'Folk Music' From: SeanM Disney actually has a few decent things as far as 'pure' traditional folk. The chanties on the Columbia (I'm not fond of their versions, either - but they ARE real chanties), instrumental stuff from the Frontierland area (Big Rock Candy Mountain, Buffalo Gals - that kinda stuff), and a few other songs throughout. It could be worse. M |
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12 Jun 02 - 06:38 AM (#728186) Subject: RE: Theme Park 'Folk Music' From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar The mere thread title sent a shudder through my soul. Celtic Soul's post confirmed that I was right. A few years ago, someone opened up a commercially-run interpretative centre on Irish traditional music in Dublin called Ceol, in the Chief O'Neill's hotel. It was outstanding in quality, both as regards the music, the social context and the way it was presented. But it was a few hundred yards too far away from the tour buses' standard itineraries and a little too expensive, it lost money and now the whole exhibit is mothballed. I suspect that if it had been filled with Irish eyes, Mother Machree and equivalent it would have been a roaring success in spite of everything. |
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12 Jun 02 - 10:44 AM (#728300) Subject: RE: Theme Park 'Folk Music' From: GUEST,Chip A I call it "elevator folk" |
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12 Jun 02 - 11:07 AM (#728318) Subject: RE: Theme Park 'Folk Music' From: GUEST,maryrrf Celtic Soul, I had a free ticket last year and went to the Busch Gardens exhibit, it hadn't been opened for very long. I, too, was appalled. I can't help but believe that if a place like Busch Gardens would just go ahead and present authentic Irish music and not crap like "When Irish Eyes are Smilin'" people would enjoy it. But I don't know. I myself have only been partially successful. I've done gigs where I felt like people really appreciated the songs, and they were songs just a little off the beaten track. Afterwards people would come up and say they'd really enjoyed it but they wished I'd have included Tooralooraloora or Molly Malone or god forbid - The Unicorn. I don't understand why people want to have the same familiar overdone songs performed over and over and over - not everybody, of course, but a good portion of the general public. But then again, there are millions of people who frequent MacDonalds, Burger King, and assorted chain restaurants because THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE GOING TO GET AND IT'S COMFORTING AND FAMILIAR, I guess. Others have a sense of adventure and will take the trouble to listen to a new song or try a new dish. But, I wasn't surprised at the trite superficial way that Busch Gardens did their "Ireland" exhibit. Like you said - it's a theme park and hardly a cultural institution. It's a shame they couldn't have done a little better, though.
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12 Jun 02 - 12:45 PM (#728409) Subject: RE: Theme Park 'Folk Music' From: Steve-o Well well, a subject near to my heart. I work for that there company that designs theme parks, and I love real folk music AND recreated real folk music. And the answer is: it's pretty much pure luck regarding "authenticity", although any theme park music is going to be cleaned up and sweetened at least somewhat. The people in charge of Entertainment often find live entertainers who are truly superb, simply because what they are offerring is a perfect fit for the musician(s). My friends who used to be the "Big Thunder Mountain Boys" at Disneyland had it made- getting paid to practice all day long! Consequently, they are now some of the finest acoustic musicians around Southern California. And the stuff they played in the park was REAL Bluegrass, regardless of what the "purists" think. They, by the way, are the guys who recorded the BGM for Frontierland, which is why it is so terrific. Sean M. is right- that stuff is great, and the stuff played on the SS Columbia could have been more "authentic", but....it's just the luck of the draw. It's wonderful that those in charge actually make the effort sometimes to bring REAL music into the theme park setting! Last year I was at EPCOT in Florida, and there was a group of Rumanian Gypsies playing in one of the lagoon alcoves- they were stunning! I stood there for at least an hour, enjoying what was about the most genuine Gypsy music I've ever come across in the US. So sometimes it's dead on, and sometimes it's Norman Luboff. BTW, CarolC- your friend troll has one of the greatest gigs in the world. I would so dearly love to go back a few years and do what he is doing. Tokyo Disneyland is great, Tokyo DisneySea is stupendous, living in Japan is wonderful (the people, the traditions, the culture), AND he gets paid to practice every day!!!! |
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12 Jun 02 - 01:42 PM (#728474) Subject: RE: Theme Park 'Folk Music' From: pattyClink Right-o, Steve-o. Worked at Busch, but back then no Ireland, so had to hawk donuts as an English wench. I'm glad someone now is gainfully employed to play/sing something Irish-ish, whatever it is,and maybe they'll 'grow into' something better, even form the nucleus of a real folk scene nearby someday. I did have friends who got the chance to dance/act all summer for actual money (and shin splints), so can't fault the place much. The other options for employment in Tidewater were pretty slim pickin's and the folk scene nonexistent. I don't expect authenticity in plastic places, myself, so it's not so upsetting when I don't get it. I still hear canned 'Trumpet Voluntary' whenever I see a Clydesdale--I wouldn't ever have heard it otherwise, so how's that a bad thing? Which brings me to my final point. The audience is part bright curious folks, and part stupefying dolts. They may bring kids who NEVER ever see a live performance until they get to these places, so there's no telling what flames are lit even by the dumbest entertainments. When your kids' culture is Nickolodeon, anything live is a plus.
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12 Jun 02 - 09:06 PM (#728835) Subject: RE: Theme Park 'Folk Music' From: Celtic Soul Steve-O... Man, I would have *loved* to have been you and seen the Gypsies sing. Do tell...what language? Was it Romany, Rumanian, or something else entirely? I will add that the "Bodhran player" in this band held the tipper by one end (like a doorknob). I was a bit appalled. |
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12 Jun 02 - 09:36 PM (#728862) Subject: RE: Theme Park 'Folk Music' From: SINSULL This seems a good place to rant: the Mr. Softee trucks in NYC played the company's ditty over and over each time followed by BONG BONG. "The creamiest dreamiest soft ice cream Is made by Mister Softee...BONG BONG" Baseball bats were often used to chase the menace away until the city finally passed an ordinance banning playing for more than one minute. Now I am faced with a new abomination: "Turkey In The Straw" blasted for hours non-stop at the playground across the street. Not even a BONG BONG. Perhaps this is Spaw's punishment for the demented plush dancing/jiggling/singing turkey I once inflicted on him. |
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12 Jun 02 - 09:40 PM (#728864) Subject: RE: Theme Park 'Folk Music' From: artbrooks |
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13 Jun 02 - 03:11 AM (#728972) Subject: RE: Theme Park 'Folk Music' From: GUEST,ozmacca Never mind Theme Parks. In our local neck of the woods, a brand new instant-cute pre-aged Irish pub opened not long back. Give you an idea, one end of the building was built round, and painted to look like the world's biggest pint of Guinness. And the first Irish music I saw advertised? A couple who claimed to present Irish country rock!!! Oh dear..... I've actually spoken to the manager about music and his reaction was that they took what the agent offered. I suppose if the punters don't know any better, they're not going to get any better education. |
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13 Jun 02 - 11:56 AM (#729215) Subject: RE: Theme Park 'Folk Music' From: Steve-o Celtic Soul: To my memory, the gypsies sang in what I would call "Romany", but I'm no expert, and don't really know what Rumanian would sound like. I just know it was fiery, rough around the edges, with lots of fiddle, and both the singing and playing seemed totally ingrained in them. Got mighty lucky that day. |
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13 Jun 02 - 12:53 PM (#729262) Subject: RE: Theme Park 'Folk Music' From: GUEST Sorry you had a poor experience at Williamsburg. You should have gone to the national park. For example, an old friend http://www.timothyseaman.com and his wife are regular performers. Explore his site. You WILL LOVE listening to some of his audio clips and buying the CD's. I have ALL of them. |
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13 Jun 02 - 01:37 PM (#729305) Subject: RE: Theme Park 'Folk Music' From: McGrath of Harlow I think it's the general view of commercial organisations that it's better if the background music is tenth rate, because it's less likely to distract people's attention from what they are there for, which is to spend money. Hence muzak.
I suspect that this attitude has spread itself to situations where it makes no commercial sense at all, and where having good music would actually make more money.
I think a lot of people have learnt a way of filtering out the music without even noticing it, which would be a handy trick if you can do it, most of the time. Noticing that it is crap is the price you have to pay for noticing the times which occasionally crop up when it's great.
The thing that's really annoying is that it is just as easy to provide wonderful music as it is to provide rubbish. It makes the noise pollution seem deliberate, which, some of the time, is probably not actually true.
Complain politely about this kind of thing, and keep on complaining. Just once in a while it might conceivably work. |
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13 Jun 02 - 03:27 PM (#729397) Subject: RE: Theme Park 'Folk Music' From: pattyClink There's no national park at Williamsburg. There's a foundation that runs Colonial Williamsburg. Unfortunately, the way you get to hear their balladeers (unless there are special performances) is to drop $30 a plate on a meal at one of their restaurants. A tad bit elitist... |
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13 Jun 02 - 04:25 PM (#729451) Subject: RE: Theme Park 'Folk Music' From: Chicken Charlie Thank for "elevator folk." I am involved with my share of events in colorfully multicultural Southern Cal, and it has always amused me that the knee-jerk reaction to "re-creating" the 1850's to 1890's is to hire a mariachi band, against which I have nothing, but that's the Mexican parallel to Bluegrass in that mariachis were invented, in terms of combining brass and strings, in the 1930's, so the result is as anachronistic as the row of 1956 Chevies that we always want to park out in front of Gold Rush events. [But they're old cars, aren't they?] I will keep fighting, as will many of us, but the bottom line may well be, "Never try to teach a pig to whistle; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig." CC |
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13 Jun 02 - 07:45 PM (#729572) Subject: RE: Theme Park 'Folk Music' From: Celtic Soul Much as I would have preferred a National Park, Colonial Williamsburg, or the Jamestown settlement, I'm afraid that without a few roller coasters, it was not going to happen. This was my 10 year old Daughters birthday present, and she picked it out. All in all, amongst theme parks, Busch Gardens definitely is the best by my reckoning. I was just a tad disappointed when I heard what they called "Irish Music", but I'll get over it, and will likely be back again next year for the kids birthday again. |
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13 Jun 02 - 07:52 PM (#729577) Subject: RE: Theme Park 'Folk Music' From: McGrath of Harlow A Mudcat Theme Park might be quite good... |
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13 Jun 02 - 07:58 PM (#729581) Subject: RE: Theme Park 'Folk Music' From: Celtic Soul I am just too scared of what a 'Cat theme park would name it's rides. |
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13 Jun 02 - 09:05 PM (#729609) Subject: RE: Theme Park 'Folk Music' From: GUEST,ozmacca I can see it now... "The Thread" where you get into a car at the tunnel mouth of your choice (BS / Lyr Req / etc etc) and it takes you on a mystery tour of the whole place at breakneck speed while people you've never heard of scream and hurl abuse at each other and everybody plays or sings their very own favourite piece and thrusts CDs under your nose...... |
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13 Jun 02 - 09:06 PM (#729610) Subject: RE: Theme Park 'Folk Music' From: GUEST,ozmacca ...... or would that be "The Drift"? |
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14 Jun 02 - 02:42 PM (#730080) Subject: RE: Theme Park 'Folk Music' From: Steve-o "I think it's the general view of commercial organisations that it's better if the background music is tenth rate, because it's less likely to distract people's attention from what they are there for, which is to spend money. Hence muzak." Not actually true at them horrible plastic Theme Parks, generally speaking, because the music can add much to the ambiance, and it is often used to do just that. HOWEVER, much more likely that some of the choices are made based on how much $$$ is involved. Here's a scenario: "Hello, ASCAP? I'd like a blanket right to play 'Blue Suede Shoes' in the BGM mix for my theme park this year". "OK, how many times will you play it, sir?" "Oh, about 32 million or so. How much would that be?" |
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14 Jun 02 - 06:32 PM (#730234) Subject: RE: Theme Park 'Folk Music' From: Celtic Soul Yeah, but Steve-o...I'd think that "When Irish Eyes Are Smiling" is more likely to be an ASCAP song than a thousand better ones that are trad. |
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14 Jun 02 - 07:43 PM (#730270) Subject: RE: Theme Park 'Folk Music' From: McGrath of Harlow "Because the music can add much to the ambiance" - well I think that too, Steve-0 and not just in theme parks. If music anywhere doesn't add significantly to the ambiance it should switched off.
This is a just another example of the general principle that "if you aren't part of the solution you are part of the problem.
Unfortunately the people with their finger on the music machine all too often are very much part of the problem.
And I'm sure it costs them money and custom. I know that the type of music they play affects which places I go to shop. I've turned and walked out of some shops and shopping malls without buying a thing, and I know there are others where the music they play makes me more likely to go there to shop. |
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14 Jun 02 - 09:25 PM (#730310) Subject: RE: Theme Park 'Folk Music' From: Maryrrf Amen to what McGrath of Harlow said. I've walked out of a shop many a time because the music playing was just so obnoxious. |