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11 Jul 02 - 11:08 AM (#746513) Subject: European bagpipes: help with folktale illus. From: CapriUni As some of you may know, I am working on a private collection of retold folktales, and am also doing illustrations (one key scene per story)... The key scene for one of the stories, from the Brothers Grimm, is of a young shepard mounting his steed and riding off to find a princess to marry... His one valuable posession is a set of bagpipes, which he takes with him. Now, we're not talking the Scottish Highland pipes here -- probably closer to the Bruegel or Shepards' pipes. But here's my question: How would such a set of pipes be carried while riding? Can they have a shoulder/carrying strap like a guitar, and slung across the back, or would they be put in a saddle bag or pouch, or some such? Thanks in Advance! |
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11 Jul 02 - 11:16 AM (#746523) Subject: RE: Bagpipes in folktale: help with illus. From: IanC There's quite a few of these illustrations in early English manuscripts ... I think there are a few on the web. Try a Google search for Early Bagpipe Images.
:-) |
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11 Jul 02 - 11:20 AM (#746529) Subject: RE: Bagpipes in folktale: help with illus. From: GUEST,greg stephens Terrible, noisy smelly things. Tow them behind on a really long rope. |
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11 Jul 02 - 11:22 AM (#746533) Subject: RE: Bagpipes in folktale: help with illus. From: Lepus Rex Look here. :) ---Lepus Rex |
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11 Jul 02 - 11:26 AM (#746539) Subject: RE: Bagpipes in folktale: help with illus. From: katlaughing You've probably already seen some of these images, but this is still an interesting site: Historic bagpipe images. Sounds like a neat project! |
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11 Jul 02 - 11:38 AM (#746547) Subject: RE: Bagpipes in folktale: help with illus. From: Lepus Rex Also, try here. Lots of old bagpipe pictures, though not many on horseback... Look in the lower left corner here. And this one's my favourite. :) ---Lepus Rex |
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11 Jul 02 - 11:40 AM (#746549) Subject: RE: Bagpipes in folktale: help with illus. From: Lepus Rex Ugh. That last image is here. :P ---Lepus Rex
link fixed in the previous posting |
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11 Jul 02 - 12:48 PM (#746605) Subject: RE: Bagpipes in folktale: help with illus. From: CapriUni Thanks, Gang! I had already done a Google search, and found many of these images already... I particularly like the one of The Country Dance, by Bruegel (the first one on the page Kat posted) -- with the young mother holding the hands of her toddler-aged daughter, helping her dance, and the young man offering a jug of something or other to the piper (trying to get him to stop playing, perhaps? ;-)). Looks like music gathers have remained pretty much the same over the centuries, huh? I guess what I'm really asking for is practical knowlege, from you pipers out there: How do you tote around your pipes when you're not playing them? Do they come with carrying cases? Or do you just tuck them under your arm? I could always just doodle an ancient looking version of modern technique...
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11 Jul 02 - 12:54 PM (#746614) Subject: RE: Bagpipes in folktale: help with illus. From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar Modern pipers of most kinds that I'm familiar with generally use cases (wooden or plastic), but I suspect that in previous centuries they may have been carried in a haversack over the shoulder, with the drones sticking out the top. But this is pure surmise. Cue cod etymolgy: the French word "musette" refers to both a type of bagpipe and a shoulder bag... |
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11 Jul 02 - 01:37 PM (#746649) Subject: RE: Bagpipes in folktale: help with illus. From: 8_Pints I agree that most modern pipers have cases for transporting their pipes around. In earlier times I suspect they rolled the bag around the drones and chanter and placed it inside a tube similar to an archer's quiver. This could have a strap attached at top and bottom that enabled it to be carried across the back leaving the hands free. Bob vG [Northumbrian Piper] |
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11 Jul 02 - 01:46 PM (#746657) Subject: RE: Bagpipes in folktale: help with illus. From: MMario retold folktale, right? Containing elements that may never have occurred or that are out and out fantasy? I would try for something that shows the pipes to the best advantage...if that makes it a bit less historical - we ARE talking folktale here... |
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11 Jul 02 - 02:17 PM (#746675) Subject: RE: Bagpipes in folktale: help with illus. From: CapriUni Thanks, Guys! For visual effect, I'll probably do an over-the-shoulder bag, with the chanter and drones coming out of the top... Just FYI: the story in question is "Hans my Hedgehog" -- the shepard (actually swineherd) in question is a tiny person -- hedgehog from the waist up, and human from the waist down, and his trusty steed is a rooster. Should make for an interesting picture... I may give him a human face... Here is an e-text version of the tale... A were-hedgehog may be bizarre, but even more strange, the music he plays is described as beautiful ;-) |
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11 Jul 02 - 02:21 PM (#746678) Subject: RE: Bagpipes in folktale: help with illus. From: CapriUni Sorry, I thought I'd turned off the hmtl after "here"... that's what you get for typing with a cat in your face. I may do that, MMario-- especially since we do have documented illustrations of riders playing while riding... |
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11 Jul 02 - 04:55 PM (#746758) Subject: RE: Bagpipes in folktale: help with illus. From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar Not altogether out-and-out fantasy, MMario, because I do remember reading that Garret Barry carried his pipes (uilleann) in a cloth bag. And I do think my previous post contained enough Government Health Warnings! |
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11 Jul 02 - 05:52 PM (#746784) Subject: RE: Bagpipes in folktale: help with illus. From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar Found a good, serious French website on musettes. I've passed on your query and will let you know if I get anything. The site contains an "iconography", i.e. inventory of artistic representations of bagpipes in France. Not all are illustrated, but if your French isn't up to it and you just want to view the photos, start here. |
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11 Jul 02 - 10:20 PM (#746902) Subject: RE: Bagpipes in folktale: help with illus. From: CapriUni Okay, well, on a hunch, I put the German title of the story (Hans Mein Igel) into Google's image search, and came up with this illustration, here. For those of who who collect bagpipe iconography, I thought you might be interested... |
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12 Jul 02 - 04:11 AM (#746997) Subject: RE: Bagpipes in folktale: help with illus. From: Nigel Parsons If you want the pipes to remain playable, I would suggest that your 'half-hedgehog' NOT carry them on his back. The spines will puncture the bag! Nigel |
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12 Jul 02 - 08:06 AM (#747087) Subject: RE: Bagpipes in folktale: help with illus. From: CapriUni Nigel -- Of course they would! ;-) Unless he put them in a quiver... But since I want this to be a clear illustration, and people probably don't know bagpipes as well as they think they do, I'll have him playing the pipes as he rides, a la the Miller in The Canterbury Tales, as MMario suggested. I'm just glad the rooster knows the way (no need to steer with reigns). |
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12 Jul 02 - 07:14 PM (#747444) Subject: RE: Bagpipes in folktale: help with illus. From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar That's bordering on bestiality, CapriUni. For what it's worth, the ginormous horses that carry the kettle drums during the British army ceremony of trooping the colour are trained to be steered without reins. So you have a precedent on your side. |
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13 Jul 02 - 07:40 PM (#747802) Subject: RE: Bagpipes in folktale: help with illus. From: CapriUni That's bordering on bestiality, CapriUni. Um.... huh? I must be very naive, 'cause I don't see how... unless (maybe) it has something to do with my misspelling "rein" as "reign"... Or is it the story itself, where half-hedgehog boy climbs into bed with his new bride? Or the scene where he removes the clothes of the first, "false", princess (though why she should be shamed for the dishonesty of her father is beyond me...)?And I really don't think it's very realistic that she would let Hans Mein Igel take off her clothes, so in my retelling, I just have him pierce her clothing with his quills, and scratch her skin underneath... (at least, he's not a porcupine -- those quills actually come loose, and work their way deeper into your flesh as you move). Though, with the second bride, he does remove his hedgehog skin before he gets into bed with her. Personally, I think of his skin of quills as symbolic of his father's resentment of him -- he's only able to shed it once he is accepted and respected on his own terms. Not sure what symbolism, in any, the bagpipes have... unless they just underline his low class/outcast status... I think he made a good call when he chose the highest tree in the deepest part of the forest as his place to practice... ;-) Oh, and you want beastiality? This story is nothing compared to The Singing, Springing Lark (note the time that they sleep).
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