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19 Aug 02 - 10:24 AM (#767908) Subject: Karl May anyone? From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy just curious if anyone other thatn Wolfgang or some of our other German 'catters have read much of Karl May (pronounced My). He is known primarily as the author of stories of the American West, the Apache, Winetou, and his German friend, Old Shatterhand, but he also wrote many stories and novels about the Middle East, contrasting the Islamic and Western cultures in a way that may be very instructive to current events. Also, in the early part of the last century (1900s) he wrote a number of books intended to promote peace and written to discourage Franz Joseph from the path that led to the First World War. I would recommend to anyone that they read his 'Ardistan and Djinistan' a two volume work that relates the achievement of peace on earth between two traditionally antagonistic cultures, and how that was accomplished. His work is dated, to be sure, hard for him to foresee the end of monarchies and the later 20th c. 'God is Dead' movement, but well worth the read none the less. In fact, just to get people open to the idea, and talking about, how much work it requires to achieve peace, (real peace, not just the absence of war, something that must me worked for, not just awaited) and perhaps encourage them to work toward developing a cabinet level Department of Peace whose purpose would be to work for peace, would be worth reading them for. Anyone else read them? It is sad that most Americans have the notion that we of course must already possess all that is worthwhile culturally, while thousands of books, films, recordings, plays, etc. are produced worldwide that we will never even read about, let alone ever get to see or hear. I don't think that all of Karl May's 74 volume collected works have been translated into English as yet, if that project is still even being pursued. Too bad, we can learn much from other perspectives. |
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19 Aug 02 - 05:54 PM (#768142) Subject: RE: Karl May anyone? From: Susanne (skw) I read about half of his works when I was a teenager (strangely, my brother never took to him!), mostly the 'Wild West' stories and several of the Near East ones (I keep coming across place names in the news that I first read in his books), but he also wrote quite an interesting - well, whatever five books in a row are called in English - about the 'Emperor' Maximilian's short reign in Mexico, featuring a forerunner of his 'Old Shatterhand' figure in the German, Wilhelm Sternberg. However, I never got to his later and more 'spiritual' books. The last one I read was, IIRR, 'Old Firehand', and I suddenly felt so disgusted by what I saw as his religious bigotry that I never touched another one. I suppose you know he never visited any of the places he wrote so vividly about, and also suffered from a massive inferiority complex which led him, as a young man, to stealing from fellow students. He also got jailed for fraud but seems to have got back on track by putting his delusions of grandeur into his books. Many of them are great reads but might not feel very authentic to an American raised on J. F. Cooper! |
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19 Aug 02 - 10:13 PM (#768281) Subject: RE: Karl May anyone? From: michaelr I believe that May started writing when incarcerated. His first-person protagonist began his travels in Northern Africa/Middle East (the first two novels are titled "Across the Desert" and "Across wild Kurdistan") and later crossed into North America. There are 70+ books, as Bill Kennedy points out, and I slugged through the majority of them as a youngster (my Grandpa had the Complete Works). I agree with Susanne, it's really tough going in the later ones when May gets on a weird mysticism trip. If I remember correctly, "Ardistan and Djinistan" is one of those. I was not aware that any of May's stuff is available in English translation... who's the publisher, Bill? Michael |
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19 Aug 02 - 10:58 PM (#768295) Subject: RE: Karl May anyone? From: toadfrog He is the most translated of all German authors, save and except Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels. If his stuff on the middle east is as profound as what he wrote about American Indians, he may be as deep a guide to philosophy, history, and the like, almost, as -- Robert Heinlein! Ich habe gesprochen! |
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19 Aug 02 - 10:59 PM (#768296) Subject: RE: Karl May anyone? From: toadfrog Ugh! |
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20 Aug 02 - 02:19 AM (#768360) Subject: RE: Karl May anyone? From: Stefan Wirz I always impressed my children (and meanwhile my grandson) by saying 'Hadschi Halef Omar Ben Hadschi Halef Omar Ben Hadschi Abul Abbas Ibn Hadschi Dawud al Gossarah' (Kara Ben Nemsis native companion) by heart ! |
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20 Aug 02 - 02:24 AM (#768363) Subject: RE: Karl May anyone? From: Stefan Wirz seems like that's easier to speak than to write it down - must have been: 'Hadschi Halef Omar Ben Hadschi Abul Abbas Ibn Hadschi Dawud al Gossarah' ;-) |
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20 Aug 02 - 05:21 AM (#768406) Subject: RE: Karl May anyone? From: MudGuard And another of his friends was Hassan Ben Abul Fedar Ibn Haukal Al Wardi Yussuf... I read most of the books, though I found the late books too esoteric for me... |
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20 Aug 02 - 12:27 PM (#768591) Subject: RE: Karl May anyone? From: Wolfgang To say that his work is 'dated' is a very mild comment. Even allowing for the context of the culture he was writing for, his work is full of hard to swallow and ever repeating stereotypes. The good ones are immediately recognisable by their fair hair and their blue eyes. The Germans are strong, handsome, trustful and hard working, the French are lustful and cannot be trusted, the Spanish are proud, irascible but cowards when it comes to a fight, The English are arrogant and unfeeling, the Jews are greedy and filthy,... On the positive side, (1) he has portrayed some persons with other skin colours than himself in a much more positive light than usual for that time and (2) he has a great ability to describe comic scenes (someone caught in his own trap, for instance; or the American Indian who had too much of a hot mustard at a dinner and tried not to turn a hair). His later works were not my taste when I was reading them (too esoteric for me too) but to invent a figure like Marah Durimeh, a woman and a nonwhite person, as a positive role model is very unusual for early 1900s. May deserves high praise for that invention. As a source of information about foreign countries, he is to be read with tons of salt. Wolfgang |
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20 Aug 02 - 04:00 PM (#768717) Subject: RE: Karl May anyone? From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy I'm not suggesting, and I don't think anyone would think of using May's books as research tools, but for light reading why not? And important in some research area in terms of how other cultures view(ed) the Native Americans. There are thousands of German readers whose only information on the American west came from May, it's all incorrect, but it informs their culture, the Karl May Museum, the re-enactments, the dozens of films, and now the very popular satire on the German Karl May film, 'the Shoes of Minatou' which was one of the biggest grossing, most popular films in Germany in 2001. There are kernels of truth in the biggest tall tale, and the only concern for American's is the bad translation that has been done over the years. A couple of people have recently begon re-translating, one of them going back to the orignal serialized editions of May's Desert series, another working from many editions and copywriting his own English abridged and edited 'version' of the first book of 'Winnetou'. I would like to see a good, thorough translation of all of May's work in to English so the rest of the world can decide for themselves about the spirit motivating the stories. They are no worse than Talbot Mundy, or Sax Rohmer, or the like, and in many instances better, for the personal preferences of May are distinctly pacifist, anti-Colonial, anti-materialist (to a degree at least), multi-cultural, anti-racist, anti-Fascist, pro-freedom, pro-learning, etc. |
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20 Aug 02 - 08:01 PM (#768819) Subject: RE: Karl May anyone? From: Snuffy I remember hearing many years ago that May was Hitler's favourite author. I've never read him, but if he's like Wolfgang says, then I can see it, but not if he's like Bill says. |
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20 Aug 02 - 11:12 PM (#768886) Subject: RE: Karl May anyone? From: michaelr Snuffy -- if he was Hitler's favorite, it's certainly not May's fault... he had no more choice in that than Wagner did. Toadfrog -- what's wrong with Heinlein? "Stranger in a Strange Land" was brilliant! Cheers, Michael |
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20 Aug 02 - 11:21 PM (#768893) Subject: RE: Karl May anyone? From: toadfrog Heinlein was, like May, a great story teller. Great story tellers do not always have a whole lot of insight. What is really astonishing about May is the way he imbued a whole nation with such a fascination for the American Indian. I once met a (young) guy named Jut in the Black Forest, who claimed to be the second-most prolific novel writer in the world. An assertion one was unable to test, as he avowedly published under a wide variety of pseudonyms. He had written great masses of books about the American West, and showed me the carbine with which he intended to defend his home if the Reds ever came. He was also planning some day to visit the United States. |