BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'

12 Sep 02 - 09:01 PM (#782584)
Subject: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: GUEST,The Phomphinator

Do you say "tomato" or "tomato?"

Me, myself and I use "tomato" because I've always found that "tomato" is just too pretentious.

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12 Sep 02 - 09:04 PM (#782587)
Subject: RE: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Mr Happy

i say potato & i say potato

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12 Sep 02 - 09:07 PM (#782592)
Subject: RE: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Pennny

I say Mater

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12 Sep 02 - 09:08 PM (#782593)
Subject: RE: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Mr Happy

another name for tomatoe is 'passion fruit'?

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12 Sep 02 - 09:11 PM (#782595)
Subject: RE: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: McGrath of Harlow

I generally say tomato and potato. I suppose I might say spud or poppy for the latter.

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12 Sep 02 - 09:21 PM (#782603)
Subject: RE: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: GUEST,Taliesn

In one particular dialalect , unique to New Yawk ,... it's a TehMAYteh.

S'mattah ,can'cha sprecken ze Englaise ;-)

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12 Sep 02 - 09:44 PM (#782623)
Subject: RE: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Bobert

Yeah, it's one of them regional things. Like the US Yankees (northern folks) say tomato and then down here a little south of there where folks ain't in no hurry, you see, its tomato and sometimes just 'maters 'n 'taters. There, that ought to clear this little matter up.

Bobert

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12 Sep 02 - 09:45 PM (#782624)
Subject: RE: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Ferrara

We have a friend (a Mudcatter, actually....) who not only says toMAHto, she won't let her friends have any of her red ripe delicious home grown toMAYtoes unless we call them toMAHtoes.

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12 Sep 02 - 09:56 PM (#782634)
Subject: RE: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: McGrath of Harlow

There was a jolly little TV sketch where the presenter read out the lyrics in a standard poshish English accent, pronouncing the words each time in the normal way for the accent. After a while he turned to the camera and said "I really can't see what the problem is with this relationship."

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12 Sep 02 - 09:58 PM (#782639)
Subject: RE: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Liz the Squeak

I say can I have beetroot instead please?

but it was always a termartow in our house.....

LTS

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12 Sep 02 - 10:40 PM (#782668)
Subject: RE: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Mr Happy

the commonest vowel sound in english is the schwa sound. consequently nouns such as potato,tomato are usually pronounced 'temarteh/r', perteayter/h'

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13 Sep 02 - 12:08 AM (#782746)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Genie

Well, actually, I'm comfortable pronouncing it either "tomato" or "tomato," but some folks would say either is wrong because they say "either" is correct.

Genie

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13 Sep 02 - 01:30 AM (#782783)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Venthony

MAter or taMAter are correct.

Tony

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13 Sep 02 - 03:13 AM (#782806)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: fat B****rd

Scone as in gone or scone as in stone.

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13 Sep 02 - 03:19 AM (#782808)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Oaklet

In Hull; "term-erter" is the norm or "nerm" as they would say.

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13 Sep 02 - 07:29 AM (#782900)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Mr Happy

'sconns, 3d- scones 4d!'

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13 Sep 02 - 08:09 AM (#782905)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Trevor

Pyjammas or pyjarmas? Ass or arse?

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13 Sep 02 - 08:15 AM (#782908)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: McGrath of Harlow

"tomato" is always pronounced "tomato", no matter how you pronounce it. The same is true of all other words.

For example, Tim Laycock was saying at Whitby that he'd found that, if you wanted to get Dorset people to pronounce the poems of William Barnes (Linden Lea and so forth) in proper Dorset, the thing to do was to scrap Barnes's valiant attempts to write them down with a spelling that attempted to reproduce the accent (see that website I gave the link to), and instead to write them down with standard spellings, and leave it to the reader to pronounce the words the way they talked.

One of the advantages of spelling in English not being consistant and logical is that it lends itself to this kind of flexibility. I believe that a strict phonetic spelling would tend to stamp out local variation far more effectively.

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13 Sep 02 - 08:16 AM (#782910)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Memphis Mud

Some performers are all too aware that TOMATO can also be pronounced AMM-U-NIH-SHUN. (I think Spaniards know this too.)

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13 Sep 02 - 09:04 AM (#782933)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Orac

I think if we start aguing about the differences between UK and USA pronunciations we will get no-where. Obviously being English I say to-mah-to but I wouldn't expect an American to. I notice above that someone spelt a singular tomato as tomatoe .. I seem to remember a certain vice-president doing something like that with "potatoe" and ending up with egg on his face. A passion-fruit is something completely different anyway ... I think you are getting mixed up with love-apple which is another name for a tomato.

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13 Sep 02 - 09:28 AM (#782947)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Orac

I'm quite aware of that but I thought we were talking about long or short vowels. I know that some people take liberties with the pronunciation but a long centre vowel seems to be constant in England with a short one in the US.

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13 Sep 02 - 09:42 AM (#782956)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: MMario

so what about r-o-o-f?

is it "ruff" as in rough?

roof to rhyme with hoof? (which I just realized also has two pronunciations) I mean the poronunciation that us more uhh then oooh.

rueff - where it is more ooo then uhhhh

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13 Sep 02 - 10:06 AM (#782974)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Larkin

Lets call the whole thing off!

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13 Sep 02 - 10:19 AM (#782987)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: DMcG

Scones ... On S(kon) versus S(cone): As a UK northerner, sharing a flat with another northerner and a southerner, we debated this, ending with the southerner entering a baker's and asking for two s(cones) and a s(kon). Disappointingly, the assistant didn't even blink.

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13 Sep 02 - 10:20 AM (#782988)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: allanwill

You can beat an egg but you can't beat a root!.

Allan

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13 Sep 02 - 10:32 AM (#782996)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Orac

Yes ... scones... thats the odd one isn't it where in the north we have the long vowel and the short in the south. ... Completely different to (or from) words like bath or lather. Why do we in England (usually) say carnt for can't.

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13 Sep 02 - 10:37 AM (#782998)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Bagpuss

Actually I'm from the north and say scon (short vowel) and so does everyone I know. The long vowel was always seen as the "posh" way to pronounce it.

The one I can think of that reverses the pattern is that I pronounce master with a long vowel, whereas I have heard people from further south pronounce it with a short vowel.

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13 Sep 02 - 11:10 AM (#783035)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: allanwill

This is one I would like cleared up once and for all - is it New-CAS-tle or New-CAR-stle. In my opinion, the people from the original place with that name should have the final say in this matter.

So, any 'catters from there? If so, how do you pronounce it?

Allan

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13 Sep 02 - 11:13 AM (#783041)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Uncle_DaveO

Mr. Happy, passion fruit is another fruit.

You MIGHT be thinking of "love apple" for the tomato.

Dave Oesterreich

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13 Sep 02 - 11:53 AM (#783080)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Bagpuss

Newcastle - definitely with a short a. Usually with the emphasis on the 2nd syllable - that is more common in the city, but in Gateshead it is equally commonly pronounced with the stress on the 1st syllable.

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13 Sep 02 - 11:59 AM (#783089)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Kim C

Count me in the 'Mater camp.

Skedule or shedjool? Jagwar or Jagyooer?

Let's call the whole thing off. ;-)

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13 Sep 02 - 12:04 PM (#783095)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Orac

Bagpuss ... all the southerners I know say "scon" and frown on me for saying Scone as if it was a lower class thing. (Southerners tend to think of Northeners as a lower class anyway).

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13 Sep 02 - 01:07 PM (#783142)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Mrs.Duck

Oh no Bagpuss we always looked down our noses at anyone who asked for a scone as opposed to scon':-) It was considered pretentious. Scone always rhymed with gone in our house but since a lot of the locals said 'gorn' anyway.... But then gone and scone do go so well together!! Oh and I don't like tomatoes!

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13 Sep 02 - 01:17 PM (#783155)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: McGrath of Harlow

"Count me in the 'Mater camp." Tha gives no indication of what kind of vowel sound you prefer, Kim C.

I've always pronounced scone to rhyme with bun, the way my mother said it. Mind, I don't think I've ever met anyone else who says it that way. Maybe she made it up.

The variation in accents in England is remarkable. Arguing about which is the "right way" to pronounce a word is to miss the point. The point being, to hold on to the variety, while welcoming the fact that it does not get significantly in the way of mutual understanding.

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13 Sep 02 - 01:36 PM (#783179)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Kim C

McGrath, here in Tennessee, that would be...

Maaaaaydur. Although some say it very short and clippy, like, maydr, so it's almost one syllable. Same for tater.

:-)

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13 Sep 02 - 01:49 PM (#783188)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Memphis Mud

A Tennessee Farmer had an Arkansas kid helping him out one day. As the drove past a store the Farmer said he needed some supplies. He stops, they go in. He tells the man behind the counter that he needs "some maters, some taters, and some nanners".

"You must be from Tennessee" says the shopkeeper. And they talked a bit about this and that.

When they returned to the truck, the kid asked "How did he know you're from Tennessee?" The farmer said "by the way I talk, I suppose."

The kid wasn't sure and wanted to check it out. So, he had the farmer stop at the next store, went in and said to the man behind the counter "I need some maters, some taters, and some nanners."

"You must be from Arkansas" said the shopkeeper.

"How'd you know that?" said the kid.

"Son, this is a hardware store"

(Sorry, Arkie. Maybe I should pick on Mississippi)

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13 Sep 02 - 03:49 PM (#783304)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: GUEST,A REAL Jersey Tomato

We prefer "tommy-toes".

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13 Sep 02 - 04:06 PM (#783318)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Uncle_DaveO

My mother, in Minnesota, 50 years ago, who had a lot of fun playing with words, often referred to "tommy-toes" also.

Dave Oesterreich

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13 Sep 02 - 04:14 PM (#783325)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: MMario

a teacher I had in HS always pronounced 'tomato' as ter-mahd-ah.

'potato' was bah-day-do

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13 Sep 02 - 04:25 PM (#783332)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Herga Kitty

Which reminds me of Mike Sparks' song - as in
Potatoes have feelings as well x 2
Potatoes have feelings,
Not just eyes and peelings
Potatoes have feelings as well.

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13 Sep 02 - 04:40 PM (#783344)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: allanwill

Bagpuss

Thanks for defining New-CAS-tle. You will now be my official reference whenever I get yelled at for my (supposed) mis-pronunciation.

Allan

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13 Sep 02 - 04:43 PM (#783348)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Uncle_DaveO

The city in Indiana is two words, New Castle, but is pronounced NEWcastle.

Dave Oesterreich

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13 Sep 02 - 04:58 PM (#783357)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: GUEST,In Dixieland

we say 'Maters' [you know, like 'Taters]

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13 Sep 02 - 05:12 PM (#783366)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Kim C

How to Understand People in Nashville. By Kim C, Nashvillian for 28 years.

Here in Nashville, there's Demonbreun Street, named after 18th century adventurer/longhunter/explorer Timothy DeMontbrun. Most people call it... DeMUMbrum.

Then there's Lebanon, Tennessee, which is pronounced LEBnun. If you say LebaNON, you ain't from around here.

And Shelbyville... how do I spell this one? It's sort of like... Shebvul.

Murfreesboro = Murfsburra

Smyrna... well, Smyrna's a little different. People actually ADD a syllable to this one, making is SaMURna.

Cocke County.... I think we did this one right, because it's pronounced Cook. Isn't that the proper English way?

Maury County = Murry.

A street called Buena Vista = Byoona Vista.

Lafayette = LaFAYit

And if you talk about whiskey, it's Jack Daniel's. If you talk about the guy who made the whiskey, it's Jack Daniel, no S.

:-)

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13 Sep 02 - 08:26 PM (#783524)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Mr Happy

here in cheshire, there's the village of cholmondeley.it's pronounced 'chumley'. also burwardsley, can be said as 'bosley' or 'bursley'

more?

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13 Sep 02 - 09:37 PM (#783560)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Leadfingers

The English and the Americans are two nations divided by a common language.What does 'I'm wild about my flat' mean? In England 'I am ecstatic about the apartment in Which I live'. I America 'I'm most annoyed as my auto mobile has a punctured tyre'.But we have the Language,not the accent.

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13 Sep 02 - 09:57 PM (#783569)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Escamillo

I'm always trying to enrich my poor English, but this is driving me crazy : How could you pretend that I know the difference between "tomato" and "tomato" if you dont give a clue about the phonetics, and the only thing I see is a pair of identical words ? ??

Un abrazo - Andrés (annoyed - or annoyed - or perhaps annoyed) (?)

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13 Sep 02 - 10:12 PM (#783579)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Leadfingers

It's like the guy who was in England to improve his English and was having serious trouble with words that were spelt the same and pronounced differently,or spelt differently and pronounced the same.Walking past a theatre he saw a poster that said 'CATS-pronounced success'-and gave up and went back home.

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14 Sep 02 - 02:25 PM (#783915)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Escamillo

Sure that guy was an Opera lover !! :) :) :)

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14 Sep 02 - 02:37 PM (#783923)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: DMcG

More scones ... yes, I've always known them as skons in the north and s(cone)s in the south. (The story I told didn't get it wrong - we were supposedly trying each others delicacy)

As for Newcastle, I've always known it as something like Nygh-CASS-le . Certainly not New, its a totally different, short, strangulated sound! And the three syllables are the same length.

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14 Sep 02 - 08:59 PM (#784138)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Genie

Well, I know that English -- especially as spoken in the US -- is very inconsistent in its pronunciation rules. But what I've never understood is why the Brits say "to-mah-to" but also say "po-tay-to."

Genie

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14 Sep 02 - 11:07 PM (#784182)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Escamillo

Thanks Genie, that's much more clear: to-mah-to or to-may-to. In Buenos Aires many years ago when I was a child, all English Schools and private teachers were Brits or have studied in a British institution. Anything American was seen as second-class. (We pupils, too) Then we learnt to-mah-to and po-tay-to, but did never dare to ask why.

Un abrazo - Andrés

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15 Sep 02 - 09:24 AM (#784319)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Shields Folk

Nycasil or "the toon"

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15 Sep 02 - 09:49 AM (#784327)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Mr Happy

gateshead=geetst

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16 Sep 02 - 04:47 PM (#785416)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: McGrath of Harlow

Am I correct that no one in the States actually pronounces potato "potahto"? (Which rather makes nonsense of the song.)

(And the common pronuncuiation here is either "pottiyta" or "pottayter")

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16 Sep 02 - 05:57 PM (#785479)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Kim C

And don't forget the baNONnas.

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16 Sep 02 - 07:30 PM (#785557)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Murray MacLeod

At this point in this thread (which btw is never going to win the "Least Tedious Mudcat Thread of 2002" Award ) it might be appropriate to point out yet another pronunciation of "Scone".

For the benefit of any brave souls contemplating making a pilgrimage to Scone in Perthshire (where the monarchs of Scotland were wont to be crowned in times of yore), it should be noted that "Scone" in this context is pronounced "SKOON".

Murray

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17 Sep 02 - 06:58 AM (#785889)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: Hrothgar

I don't know that we should accept a Scots pronunciation of anything. They speak less English than the Yanks.

:-))

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17 Sep 02 - 07:07 AM (#785898)
Subject: RE: BS: Do you say 'tomato' or 'tomato?'
From: John Hardly

pronunciation has never been my for-tay.

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