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06 Jan 03 - 02:19 PM (#859965) Subject: Origins: Hunting the Wren From: GUEST,Arnie I was at a quiz recently and the answer to 'what is the most common garden bird?' was the wren. A few of us disputed this but the quizmaster insisted it was correct. I'm sure he was wrong as the most common bird in my garden is the starling, and I'm sure that applies to most people in the UK - although I have a green woodpecker that visits almost daily over the winter months. Anyway, I digress. There was a pagan(?) tradition of hunting and eating the wren and this has spawned a few folk songs such as Hunting the Wren and the Cutty Wren, so maybe the wren used to be a common bird a few hundred years ago. But, I also recall that someone reckoned that the bird was called a wren but was probably either a robin or a blue tit. Anyone know the truth of this and also, what is the most common bird in your garden? |
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06 Jan 03 - 02:24 PM (#859969) Subject: RE: Origins: Hunting the Wren From: GUEST,Geordie The Dark eyed Junco, the chickadee and the nuthatch seem equally common in winter as do doves. Would one noy have to be very patient ort very hungry to eat a wee wren ? |
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06 Jan 03 - 02:27 PM (#859976) Subject: RE: Origins: Hunting the Wren From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy it was not hunted and eaten because it was 'common', but because it was 'royal'! the wren, the wren the king of all birds... made king by being clever, hiding in the feathers of an eagle, who climbed as high as he could, and higher than all other birds, to claim the title of king of all birds, when the wren jumped out and flew higher still. It is thought by some that the wren as king of birds was used as a substitute display for the annual execution of the king for those in outlying areas who could not witness the ritual sacrifice themselves. St. Stephen's story and day was imposed on the earlier pagan practice by the Christians, who made the wren into a snitch, whose noisy presence they say alerted the Roman legions of Stephen's hiding place. |
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06 Jan 03 - 02:31 PM (#859978) Subject: RE: Origins: Hunting the Wren From: Malcolm Douglas Ah, we've discussed that rather often here. Type hunting the wren into the "Lyrics and Knowledge Search" box which you'll find at the top of the main Forum page, and start reading! Don't believe it all, though; much of what people say about it is pure fantasy... |
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06 Jan 03 - 02:31 PM (#859980) Subject: RE: Origins: Hunting the Wren From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy and this practice has given Irish music the bodhran, as well. made annually and simply of woven willow rods and a skin head, the drums were used to beat the bushes for the wren. The bodhran itself didn't appear in Irish music as an accompanying instrument until the 1960s, I think, by Sean o'Riada. |
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06 Jan 03 - 03:05 PM (#860008) Subject: RE: Origins: Hunting the Wren From: GUEST,Q Malcolm, Bill Kennedy has invented more myths for you. |
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06 Jan 03 - 03:42 PM (#860036) Subject: RE: Origins: Hunting the Wren From: *#1 PEASANT* The St.Stephen and the wren and hunting the wren day page is here: clickit Conrad |
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06 Jan 03 - 03:46 PM (#860040) Subject: RE: Origins: Hunting the Wren From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar Bill, You're quite right about the bodhrán being used by the wren boys. It was only after it appeared in John B Keane's "Sive" and then taken up by Ceoltóirí Cualann (O Riada's creation) and the Chieftains who were a development of Ceoltóirí Cualann that the bodhrán found its way into mainstream Irish trad music. The only details that I'm less sure about are the woven willow frame and whether the bodhrán was used to beat the bushes. Given that most of the time the wren boys didn't have a real wren anyway, it sounds quite plausible: the wren was no doubt a discriminating musician which flew away while the bodhránaí was still getting out his cipín. |
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06 Jan 03 - 04:19 PM (#860063) Subject: RE: Origins: Hunting the Wren From: Malcolm Douglas Actually, I've no quarrel at all with the bodhran story, though they seem also (perhaps more often?) to have been made pro tem by simply tacking a skin to a farmyard riddle. As for that Pagan Rite business; well, it could be true. There's no evidence that holds water, though, so we really shouldn't state it as some sort of fact, as it's nothing of the kind; just a theory, though an often-repeated one. The thread DTStudy: Cutty Wren probably contains the best information available here (and some of it more reliable than you'll find almost anywhere on the web, though it does have its fair share of silliness as well); together with links to some other discussions here and elsewhere. |
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06 Jan 03 - 04:44 PM (#860081) Subject: RE: Origins: Hunting the Wren From: Liz the Squeak Back to the question, the commonest bird in my garden is the blackbird. I've got several firethorn (pyrocantha) bushes, and other berry bearing shrubs, the blackbirds live nearby and regularly come to strip my garden of every berry except the holly (bushes too spindly for the birds to pitch on) and the rosehips. It used to be sparrow until next door decimated his privet tree. At the moment it's chickens. Dead ones. The cats have been having a field day out there with at least 3 carcasses, of which, only 2 were provided from our fridge...... LTS |
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07 Jan 03 - 10:30 AM (#860658) Subject: RE: Origins: Hunting the Wren From: Dave Bryant The wren described on the St Stephen link is Troglodytes Aedon the American cousin of our UK variety Troglodytes Troglodytes. Like most things from that side of the ditch it's larger (4.5" - 5") than ours which is usually 3.5" - 3.75". Because of it's small size and low flight it's easy to not to notice them. They also often over-winter in communual nests or roosts so that they can conserve heat (rather like bees) which of course their small bodies would lose rather fast. I can remember a story about the wren, where it was the only bird to sit right through the instructions on nest building and that is why it builds it's elaborate fully covered over construction. |
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07 Jan 03 - 06:25 PM (#861050) Subject: RE: Origins: Hunting the Wren From: boglion I've been out twice with the Brandon Ramblers on St. Stephen's Day and had a fantastic time both days. The day begins with a gathering mid-morning in Norah Murphy's Bar in Brandon and a welcome pint or two of Guinness. This is followed by dressing up in wild costumes - many props provided by the house and loading everyone up into a van to tour the area. Stopping near a group of houses each will be invaded in turn - you leave your door unlocked at your peril. A crowd of around a dozen mad swirling characters will swarm into your home led by an accordion player, dancing and singing until you give them a fiver or so to go away. A slug of whiskey is also appreciated. This assault goes on until it is felt that the bars might have enough people in them to be worth raiding. Our other local village Cloghane is attacked first with a music session and collection in each bar. We might at this time meet a far bigger Wran from Dingle or Castegregory who will be treated as a challenge to make even more noise. Eventually we make our way back to Brandon to do all three pubs ending up with a late night session in Murphy's joined by stragglers from the other Wrans. It's a wild way to see Christmas out. It also makes quite a contribution to local good causes such as the Fenit Lifeboat or Kerry Mountain Rescue. Smaller Wrans of youngters are everywhere all day. A brilliant day all round. |
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08 Jan 03 - 11:15 AM (#861551) Subject: RE: Origins: Hunting the Wren From: Dave Bryant Do you ever catch or even actually hunt for a wren in between intimidating people and getting inebriated. I thought that when people gave you money, you were supposed to give them a wren feather. |
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08 Jan 03 - 06:50 PM (#862040) Subject: RE: Origins: Hunting the Wren From: boglion I'm a relative novice to the tradition. There was no bird hunting involved on our days out - just music, song, dance, and loads of laughter. |
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09 Jan 03 - 04:26 AM (#862324) Subject: RE: Origins: Hunting the Wren From: Dave Bryant Must be a bit like a morris dance tour - with no dancers. |
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09 Jan 03 - 04:55 AM (#862333) Subject: RE: Origins: Hunting the Wren From: IanC here are some who would say that no dancers is an improvement ... I'm not one of them, of course. ;-) |
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09 Jan 03 - 09:44 AM (#862540) Subject: RE: Origins: Hunting the Wren From: vectis Wrens don't fly far. They tend to do short hops, certainly in the cold, dark days of mid-winter. This made them easy to surround and trap by driving the bird to the centre of a circle of noisy people. This is probably WHY the wren was hunted instead of a larger or flashier bird. |