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07 Jan 03 - 05:36 PM (#860999) Subject: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST Click here |
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07 Jan 03 - 05:45 PM (#861019) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST Hmmm, the BBC is taking a political stance. The time's are indeed 'a-changing' |
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07 Jan 03 - 05:50 PM (#861025) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST I only got four right. |
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07 Jan 03 - 05:59 PM (#861032) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST America got none right |
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07 Jan 03 - 06:02 PM (#861035) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Kim C Is bullshit one word or two? |
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07 Jan 03 - 06:06 PM (#861038) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Catherine Jayne I think Bollocks fits this. |
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07 Jan 03 - 06:12 PM (#861041) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST To what do 'bullshit' and 'bollocks' refer please? To the quiz? to the fact that most of the world increasingly hates america? to the bbc? Do tell |
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07 Jan 03 - 06:23 PM (#861047) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Tweed Screw you GUEST. Yerz, Tweed |
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07 Jan 03 - 06:25 PM (#861051) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Bill D gonna be another poll HERE, if spineless, anonymous trolls from the UK don't quit dragging this useless form of BS into this group. You can demonstrate anything with the right poll, carefully constructed. I don't suppose our ghostly trolls would care to offer any ideas on just how we might please everyone? |
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07 Jan 03 - 06:26 PM (#861052) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST Please explain why I shoud be 'screwed' please, Tweed |
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07 Jan 03 - 06:38 PM (#861064) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: TheBigPinkLad I got three right. Therefore I am. |
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07 Jan 03 - 06:39 PM (#861067) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST Bill, This isn't a poll or a troll. It's a link to a page from one of the most respected news organisations in the world. Sorry if you have a problem with that. |
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07 Jan 03 - 06:51 PM (#861079) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST,Another Guest I like you Guest!!!!!!!! |
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07 Jan 03 - 06:52 PM (#861080) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Bill D and why did we NEED a link? This is not for education...this is YOUR attempt to make some sort of point. The BBC can start stupid 'polls, just as CNN can or NBC can, or FOX news can...but shouting "look at this" anonymously is ***TROLLING***..... if you want to sign on as a real PERSON, I will discuss America's place in the world with you... |
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07 Jan 03 - 06:57 PM (#861085) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST,Real Person Tell me about America's place in the world, Bill |
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07 Jan 03 - 06:59 PM (#861087) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: a real PERSON I've 'signed on' now |
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07 Jan 03 - 07:02 PM (#861090) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: a real PERSON hello Bill? |
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07 Jan 03 - 07:05 PM (#861093) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST Well, I'm none of the above guests, but an American one who was very interested in this poll. Thank you to the guest who provided the link to it. As an American, I am proud to say I did all right on the poll--5 right. And some of those I was wrong about, like Russian's attitudes towards Americans. I was as close to the right answer as possible, but boy was I wrong! At any rate, I think Salman Rushdie, an author I greatly admire, has it only partly right. Americans will find it much more difficult to defeat anti-American attitudes than Islamic fundamentalism, but only in certain parts of the globe, like Britain! I think the British are pathological in their hatred of Americans, and pretty damn irrational about it too. I mean, what the hell did we ever do to the Brits to justify it? Now, the Phillipines, or Vietnam, or all of Latin America...there is no shortage of places where I would expect anti-American sentiments to be very strong because of the imperial reach of our military and "economic" (yeah, right) advisers/troops, which ever the case may be. |
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07 Jan 03 - 07:05 PM (#861094) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Bill D you need to explain why you posted that 'poll'..... America is a big target is the main situation...when you are big & rich, you will be criticized NO MATTER WHAT you do. |
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07 Jan 03 - 07:12 PM (#861096) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST when you are big & rich, you will be criticized NO MATTER WHAT you do Agreed, but refusing to sign global treaties on both environmental and criminal law issues, insisting that the 'American way' is best for all etc. etc. gives people more ammunition. |
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07 Jan 03 - 07:12 PM (#861097) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: mack/misophist Back off and take another look, guys. We came off looking better than I expected. No one is universally loved; no one deserves to be. I like Chirac's attitude. The man has class. |
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07 Jan 03 - 07:15 PM (#861100) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST Well said, misophist. Thank you for that post |
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07 Jan 03 - 07:17 PM (#861104) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: CarolC I think it's a good article. I got less than half right, though. Some of the questions were a little misleading. Still, I think it's a very healthy thing for us to see a bit of how this country is perceived by the rest of the world. Goodness knows, excess humility certainly isn't one of our shortcomings. Also, I sort of got the impression that that article was really more about trying to promote pro-US sentiments in Britain than anything else. |
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07 Jan 03 - 07:22 PM (#861107) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST Good point, well made Carol. I'll cross you off the list and only hate 99.96% of Americans now. (smiley, grin, a joke etc) |
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07 Jan 03 - 07:26 PM (#861114) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: kendall A question: What do you think would happen world wide if the USA pulled out of all countries, and, came home to mind its own business, like Canada does? |
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07 Jan 03 - 07:27 PM (#861116) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Bill D I speak only with those with names....I am old and slow and curmudgeonly, and I can't tell one 'guest' from another......get used to it.... |
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07 Jan 03 - 07:28 PM (#861119) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: McGrath of Harlow What on earth is the problem? The poll wasn't promoting "anti-Americanism", whatever that means, it was giving people a chance to test out whether their guesses about where it was more and less prevalent. I only got two right - the quote from Chelsea Clinton, which I remembered reading somewhere, and I guessed Uzbekistan was probably a fairly pro-American place, compared to the other Muslim countries listed. But I get the feeling that the knee-jerk assumption from some people that this was an exercise in encouraging people to hate America is a bit uncalled for. Anything more than the least superficial glance at it would have shown that it wasn't. Myself I think I probably hate the same things about America as the Americans whom I most admire. I don't think that is anti-American in any way. I could probably say the same about most countries, including the one I live in. The difference with America is that we in other countries are exposed to it through the mass media far more than to any other country (even including our own, for many people). And the mass media tends to pick out the least interesting and least admirable things about any country. That perhaps does give a rather unfortunate impression. |
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07 Jan 03 - 07:28 PM (#861120) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST,Another Guest I still like YOU Guest!!!! |
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07 Jan 03 - 07:53 PM (#861148) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: vectis Happy New Year Kevin!!!! I beat you - four right :-) Shows our ignorance of the truth about USA - maybe? |
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07 Jan 03 - 08:07 PM (#861169) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: McGrath of Harlow But it didn't set out to deal with "the truth about the USA" at all. It was all about how accurate our perceptions are about how various people in various countries felt about America. And it turned out I was pretty ignorant about that, indicating certain preconceptions, for example about the French and Italians and so forth - but saying nothing whatsoever about how I might feel about Americans. |
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07 Jan 03 - 08:13 PM (#861173) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST,jaze How sad. I thought America did more good around the world than seems to be beleived. I don't hate British people because I can't stand their tabloids. It makes it seem as if Americans are universally despised. It should be remembered that not all Americans support those things that piss the world off. Now I can understand lately why people may have that idea. There seems to be an attitude abroad lately that America can do whatever it wants because it is the lone Superpower. That attitude scares me. America by and large has a history of doing noble things to help other, weaker, less fortunate countries. I would hate to see us do something not noble such as an unprovoked attack on another country-without solid PROOF of something, because we despise that country's leader. What would happen if we left S Korea? They seem to want us to. Maybe we need to pull back and mind our own business more. |
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07 Jan 03 - 08:21 PM (#861182) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST It makes it seem as if Americans are universally despised Jaze, for better or worse, they pretty much are |
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07 Jan 03 - 08:21 PM (#861184) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Amos I got 7 right. McGrath is correct, but actually I think Mister Rushdie is not. Anti-Americanism is as ill-conceived a mental disease as fearing black cats or distrusting people with moustaches, or blaming one's own condition on "them". It is a collectivity without merit in substance -- used, instead, as a way of generalizing fear and infecting it into others with useless and semantically senseless generalizations. This is something that any human, regardless of his nationality, will do if he is too oppressed, too indroctrinated or too stupid to think for himself clearly. But it certainly doesn't give it any further merit that it is a popular dysfunction. A |
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07 Jan 03 - 08:37 PM (#861200) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Tweed Bush doctrine is not America and neither is the US government. If you've never lived here then it's hard to describe in words. America is the people and the land that they live on, not a political thing. We are not to be despised or "loathed" simply for being Americans. Give us a chance and loathe us one on one if you can but not en masse. I'm talking about the real Americans who work their asses off and have no control over the things our elected officials get us into. To start a thread with the obviously catchy smartass title "Who LOATHES the USA" is pretty darned loathsome to my thinking. The quiz is fine, the thread title sucked, ...and I overeacted to a flamer,...and I apologise for it, but not for being a person born on America. To recap: 1. Screw you GUEST 2. My apologies to the board for fanning a flame. I should know better. Yerz, Tweed, |
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07 Jan 03 - 08:51 PM (#861214) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST The idea of invading Iraq is a collectivity without merit in substance -- used, instead, as a way of generalizing fear and infecting it into others with useless and semantically senseless generalizations. Would that be right, Amos? |
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07 Jan 03 - 08:58 PM (#861219) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST Amos tells us that 'Anti-Americanism is mental disease. I don't think anymore need be said. Americans, arrogant? Don't be so silly... |
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07 Jan 03 - 09:44 PM (#861246) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: katlaughing This is nothing new. We've always had the "ugly American" syndrome. Tweed, you said I'm talking about the real Americans who work their asses off and have no control over the things our elected officials get us into. I think you'll agree with me that if those same Americans got out and voted they would have MORE control over the things elected officials get us into. |
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07 Jan 03 - 09:54 PM (#861255) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST,jaze Guest, don't we have ANY redeeming qualities?I don't always agree with everything our gov't does,but there are countries that we help with food and money, and medical aid. I think Americans have and always have had a generous spirit. |
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07 Jan 03 - 10:03 PM (#861262) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Haruo I liked the quiz. Only got three right (though there were others I'd have got right if I hadn't tried to "outsmart the Brits" — for example, I was pretty sure Le Monde had that headline but thought they probably gave it in French, Nous sommes tous d'américains maintenant or something, so I chose The Sun): Uzbekistan, Chelsea and the Ambassador to Japan. Thanks to the GUEST for posting the link. Weird look at BillD for reacting so violently to such a benign post. Haruo "futsūna amerikazin" — NOT ;-) |
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07 Jan 03 - 10:05 PM (#861265) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: mack/misophist True, America DOES do a lot of good things. I wish I had copied an article I saw in one of the main stream news magazines a few years back. We don't give as much foreign aid -per capita- as we think. Per capita, we do rather badly. And that was under the Democrats. I hate to think... When America shines is when the psople respond to a disaster. Only then, I think. |
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07 Jan 03 - 10:14 PM (#861267) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST GO AWAY YOU STUPID ANTI-AMERICAN TROLL! THIS IS A MUSIC FORUM!!!! |
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07 Jan 03 - 10:17 PM (#861269) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: TIA I got 8 right! Does that qualify me as a beautiful (ant. ugly) American? Nahh, I'm just a damn good second-guesser. Now for real laughs, I'd like to see a USA Today (or better yet - Jay Leno) poll on anti-Europeanism in America. Can y'all feel the love? Some of my best friends (and relatives) are furners. |
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07 Jan 03 - 10:28 PM (#861280) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: katlaughing Like some of the rest of us, I would imagine BillD has had it up to here with nameless Guests, the ones who esp. troll the waters with a seemingly pathological need to denigrate the USA and so what if he decided to give them whatfor? We've had plenty of "trash the Americans" threads in the past and they do wear thin. |
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07 Jan 03 - 11:47 PM (#861321) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Haruo I understand what you're talking about, kat, but this is not one of those threads. The so-called poll is not anti-American. The GUEST who posted it didn't particularly rant against America. As I said, Bill lashed out at a benign post. There's enough variety of GUESTs hereabouts that (annoying though they are) to jump to conclusions like this is, I think, a tendency to be avoided. Though I owe BillD an apology for singling him out (there are several other salvos from folks with names aimed at person or persons without that I might equally well have directed my weird look at). Overall, speaking as an American, I think the "poll" would be worth any American's time to read. Haruo |
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07 Jan 03 - 11:50 PM (#861322) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST,.gargoyle Nine out of Ten - It pays to read the Financial Times and the Hearld.
Sincerely, |
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08 Jan 03 - 12:46 AM (#861355) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Little Hawk It's not the USA I loathe...it's a beautiful country. I like most Americans too. It's the Democratic and Republican parties I loathe, the banks and major corporations who stand behind them, the IMF, the World Bank, and the military-industrial complex whom they all pander to and serve, while robbing their own people, pushing drugs, and terrorizing and pillaging most of the world in the name of "freedom". Ha! Freedom for the robber barons, but not for the serfs (meaning just about everyone, including you and me, but specially 3rd World people). - LH |
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08 Jan 03 - 01:29 AM (#861378) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Joe Offer I'm with Little Hawk...for once. [grin] I despise George Bush, don't think much of most American politicians, and have little respect for our Captains of Industry. Most other Americans are wonderful people, and we live in a beautiful land. And I don't like William Shatner, but he's Canadian. -Joe Offer- |
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08 Jan 03 - 01:33 AM (#861380) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Little Hawk Aww...you'd like Bill if you knew him, Joe! :-) - LH |
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08 Jan 03 - 05:49 AM (#861438) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Harry Basnett Interesting quiz...crap heading for the thread. |
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08 Jan 03 - 06:12 AM (#861443) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Bagpuss FYI - here is a link to some info in international foreign aid comparisons. |
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08 Jan 03 - 06:13 AM (#861444) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: alanabit I got six. I agree with McGrath. It is a test of whether you are correct in your assumptions about anti-Americanism. The thread started with a question rather than a statement. That means that our (regrettably anonymous) guest has made no assumptions either way. Most of what I feel about America was said by myself or others on the "What did America ever do for us?" thread. (For God's sake, don't be tempted to revive it anyone). I like Americans, have always loved working with them and I love a lot of what has come out of their country. I loathe a lot of what is done in their name and by a lot of their politicians and companies. A lot of Americans think the same. |
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08 Jan 03 - 06:17 AM (#861445) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Bagpuss And not forgetting that a third of the foreign aid the US gives is to Israel - a country that already has one of the world's higher per capita incomes.... |
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08 Jan 03 - 06:57 AM (#861458) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Rapparee What I abhor about my country is the slide into greed, the idea that profit is all, that even the government should be "profitable" no matter who is hurt. There were twenty more newbies welcomed into my support group for the unemployed on January 6. I don't know the total number of members, but there are between 50 and 70 people there every Monday morning and a LOT of name badges are not picked up. These folks are mostly from the computer service departments, from human resources, from those parts of a business that aren't "profit centers" but which take money to run. These are the middle class, the college-educated, the MBAs. And if something isn't done, they WILL change their politics. I hate no one, no country, no person. I can intensly dislike you, if you try to harm me or mine, and if I had to do so I would kill you -- with sorrow, but without hate. I have other things to do and can't afford the energy it takes to hate. |
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08 Jan 03 - 07:13 AM (#861462) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST I'm sorry if I titled the thread wrongly. I was just using the wording from the BBC Site |
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08 Jan 03 - 07:58 AM (#861511) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Strupag Funny enough, here in God's own land of Caledonia we often have discussions about why the English are not popular in mainland Europe. I've travelled throughout and worked in Europe and it DOES make a difference when the local folk learn that you are a Scot. I think most of my American friends hate the same things about their country as I do ie Bush, IMF, World Bank, Disney Chanell etc. I also hope that they despise the same things about UK as I do. ie Thatcherism, Blairism(only the spelling is different), tabloids, Royals etc. Maybe, we should promote what we like about each other. Second thoughts, maybe not: The Yanks get far too slushy sentimental when they do that! |
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08 Jan 03 - 08:12 AM (#861517) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Bobert Well, danged! I don't believe much in polls. I believe that given the wording og the question that a pollster could get a high approval rate for________________ (pick your own mean dictator). I mean, like George Bush having a high approval rating? Come on? Give my poor ol' boney Wes Ginny butt a break. If he has such a high rating, h0ow come just about everyone I know thinks he is an idiot? Hey, "ya' don't have to be a weatherman to know which way the wind blows" here (Dylan) and if ya' got a country going around witha big stick wacking folks or threatening to wack folks, it ain't rocket science that that country ain't going to win the :Most Lovable Award" Beam me up... Bobert |
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08 Jan 03 - 11:00 AM (#861527) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Kim C Well, it's like this. Some people hate us till they need us. Till they need our money that they so despise. Till they want us to come and build factories and make jobs for their people. Till they want us to help save them from the latest evil overlord. Till they want their kids to come to our universities. Till they want a pair of Levis or a Britney Spears record. So the British don't like our obesity? What's that all about? Are there no obese people in Britain? When I was there, there wasn't any shortage of junk food. Who's eating it? Saying you don't like somebody because they're fat makes about as much sense as saying you don't like somebody because of their race or religion. How many people did they poll, anyway? All of them? I doubt it. I don't really believe any of that and I'll tell you why. Because people are people wherever you go, and I think most people are good and helpful. Did anyone watch the TV series "Lost"? Did you notice how helpful people were to the participants, all around the world? Even when they didn't speak English? I think most of the worldwide conflicts are between governments, not PEOPLE. |
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08 Jan 03 - 11:15 AM (#861546) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Auxiris Geez, only 7 right. . . maybe I'd better follow the news more closely. cheers, Aux |
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08 Jan 03 - 11:15 AM (#861549) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: CarolC I'd say this quote from Bagpuss' link is pretty revealing: The Washington Post reports that 80% of the U.S. foreign aid budget actually goes directly to American firms. If what this former Chief Economist of the World Bank says is true, perhaps this is a big part of why the US is loathed in so many parts of the world. World Bank, International Monetary Fund, World Trade Organization |
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08 Jan 03 - 11:15 AM (#861550) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: wilco People occasionally get off their meeds; we need to be more understanding of these "guests." Next time the UK needs to be bailed out of trouble (WWI, WWII), I would bet that the US will also bail-out the BBC folks (and guests)too. |
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08 Jan 03 - 11:17 AM (#861555) Subject: Who loathes the BBC: a quiz from the US From: wilco A recent CNN poll cited that the BBC is consistently mistrusted as a news source in developing countries. Your opinion?
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08 Jan 03 - 11:20 AM (#861559) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: CarolC wilco48, I think that what the BBC was trying to accomplish with that article was to drum up support for the US. My guess is that they are probably trying to convince people in the UK to get behind the idea of a US attack against Iraq. |
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08 Jan 03 - 11:28 AM (#861568) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Bagpuss CaroleC - I doubt very much the BBC was trying to drum up support for the war - it does try to stay impartial from the goverment (much to their annoyance at times). More likely they thought it was a bit of fun on an issue that has been around in the news over the last year or so. This whole thread has confirmed my prejudice that many Americans are very touchy at any sort of percieved criticism. A bit like people from Norfolk? |
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08 Jan 03 - 11:30 AM (#861570) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Alice The media focuses on the controversial actions of US government and ignores the humanitarian actions of Americans: a few examples - The Carter Center Waging Peace, Fighting Disease, Building Hope (giving the tools to citizens of countries to implement their own solutions - Jimmy and Rosalyn Carter) NetAid (connects people and groups with organizations that are committed to ending extreme poverty around the world - Based in New York) Goodthings.com Based in Seattle, Washington, an internet guide. This is a guide to organizations building grassroots action for good works. Good Actions are stories of and from people and non-profits who are changing their corners of our world. Animals Arts & Culture (music stories you may find interesting) Community Environment & Sustainability Families & Children Health Human Rights Personal Passions Politics and Government Goodthings.com is looking for writers. If you are a writer and see the good works that Americans are doing, check it out. Alice |
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08 Jan 03 - 11:37 AM (#861575) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: CarolC It must be lovely to live in a country that has an impartial news source, Bagpuss ;-) (I actually have no idea what that feels like. Free country indeed.) |
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08 Jan 03 - 11:56 AM (#861602) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST As an American, I believe American citizens are just as much part of the problem as are the political, religious, and corporate leaders who run the global plutocracy from here, from London, from Bonn, from Brussels, from Paris, etc. Just like I believe European citizens are just as much part of the problem, and Japanese citizens, and the citizens of every other wealthy republic on the planet. To me, the most dangerous thing to think is that it is just the Americans who are responsible for negative impacts of globalization, the perpetuation and exacerbation of world poverty, and the militarization of the planet. It isn't just the Americans by a long shot. The ethical and moral drift caused by these current trends are also rooted in the ethical and moral drift of the citizenry of the wealthy (supposedly) democracies. Without the tacit support of the citizenry, the global plutocrats couldn't be getting away with all the corruption, exploitation, etc. Let us not forget, BBC is currently exploring their options for a merger with Disney. BNF has sold nuclear technology to lots of entities it should not have, that sort of thing. It seems to me the British like to point fingers at Americans as a means of absolving their own culpability in the mess that the Europeans and Americans have made of this world. Much more convenient to blame the other guy than change one's self, isn't it? |
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08 Jan 03 - 12:07 PM (#861621) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Declan Whoever closed off Wilco48's other thread with a similar title wasn't reading very carefully.
-Joe Offer- |
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08 Jan 03 - 12:09 PM (#861624) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Donuel with only 1 right I feel out of touch |
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08 Jan 03 - 12:16 PM (#861628) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Rustic Rebel Kat, I vote every election. Bush still won. It's not if you vote, it's finding the right people to run. It feels like sometimes there just is not even a good choice,so people don't go to the polls at all. And when there is a good choice people are afraid their vote won't count so they don't vote them anyway, that's why we end up with what we have. OK back to the poll, I only had 4 right but I knew the first one was Russia. They want to keep US in good graces, being they are going to be the oil controllers of the future and they know the US will be depending on them then. Ha! Just a theory, maybe I talk a little BS there, maybe not. Peace, Rustic |
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08 Jan 03 - 12:21 PM (#861635) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Wolfgang I can only cite McGrath: What on earth is the problem? There is nothing anti-American in this quiz with the exception of a very unfortunate wording of the BBC's link. Insert any other nation as the target nation and you'll see that easily. Many questions are merely knowledge questions. And for the other questions, without any control data you even cannot be sure that the responses reveal any significant amount of anti-Americanism. Ask for instance whether Russia is seen with more approval than disapproval in six Moslem countries, and you may also find that only one country (though perhaps not Uzbekistan) has more responses in favour. Perhaps no country in this world of any significant size finds more people in many other countries being in favour of it. The data are completely irrelevant for the title question of this thread. But still, it is an interesting quiz. Wolfgang |
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08 Jan 03 - 12:40 PM (#861657) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: McGrath of Harlow I'm still puzzled why anybody should feel heated about this. It does seem to me that a lot of Americans seem to feel very surprised and indignant when they come across any implied criticism. I'd have thought that it goes with the territory, being the only surviving SuperPower, and that it's be expected and almost a matter of a kind of pride. That's how other big powers in their time, such as England or France seem to have taken it. Bridling indignantly at criticism is the kind of thing you get from small places - when someone says your town is a dump, that's the way you react. Maybe if a small country like Ireland, which is used to people saying nice things, suddenly found itself under attack, you might get that kind of reaction - "look at all the great stuff we do". Somehow it seems that, though America is so enormously powerful today, many Americans still seem to think of it as small and weak and needing to be defended from unfair attack. I'm reminded of something Chesterton once said about the universe, about how with only one universe it made just as much sense to think about it as being small as being big: "The fancy that the cosmos was not vast and void, but small and cosy...to God the stars might be only small and dear, like diamonds." So maybe if Americans think about America as being small and vulnerable and needing to be stoutly defended from the bullies who surround it, that isn't really arrogance, it's a kind of humility. And in the long run, of course, it's quite true that America's power and strength is merely a passing phase. As Kipling put it presciently, speaking about the then mighty British Empire - Far-call'd our navies melt away— On dune and headland sinks the fire— Lo, all our pomp of yesterday Is one with Nineveh and Tyre! Judge of the Nations, spare us yet, Lest we forget, lest we forget! |
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08 Jan 03 - 12:45 PM (#861663) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST Problem with the Americans McGrath, and I speak as one, is that they don't perceive themselves as the empire. Honest to god, I think if you asked most Americans if we were an empire like the British empire that founded our nation, they would say absolutely not. They don't see us as the Big Bad Imperial Yankee Might. Now, please note, I am not suggesting that Americans, by and large, are consciously this blissfully ignorant of the facts. I am stating unequivocally that they are! |
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08 Jan 03 - 01:28 PM (#861705) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST Declan, the problem is precisely with the ones who do that sort of censoring around here. It is happening now with an alarming frequency, especially with BS political threads. Which is precisely what every Mudcatter who supports the censorship has stated could never happen here. Unfortunately, the best and the brightest minds in Mudcat aren't the ones with the power to censor. |
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08 Jan 03 - 01:39 PM (#861723) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: C-flat "I think the British are pathological in their hatred of Americans, and pretty damn irrational about it too."....Guest. Absolutely NOT true! I don't know anyone with a hatred of Americans. I know people who disagree with some of America's policies or find some American public figures hard to stomach, but no more than we find some of our own counties actions and leading lights difficult to bear. As has already been stated, this thread is NOT anti-American and I feel that some of the people responding to it haven't actually bothered to read the link. The "quiz" draws no conclusions other than to test your own general knowledge. For the record I scored 6. |
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08 Jan 03 - 02:25 PM (#861783) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: stevetheORC Who ever said that we Brits hate you Yanks? Other than a couple of minor tiffs a few hundred years ago we (Brits) have been one of your closest alies. We have stood by you when others have turned there backs on you, even when you have refused to support us we have been there for you. Just look at the reaction in this country after September the 11, have you ever given us so much support when we have been the target of terror? Please stop thinking that we all hate you. |
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08 Jan 03 - 02:36 PM (#861798) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST Let me now qualify what I said. I should have said "many Brits" rather than just "Brits". But c'mon you Brits, your nod and a wink claims of Brits not hating Americans isn't very...sincere, shall we say? At least some of us can read between those lines. Some of us have actually been to Britain, and read all about the anti-American crisis in the papers, you know. Which is what the BBC poll being discussed is all about, now isn't it? Now, I understand you not liking being sussed out, but there it is. |
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08 Jan 03 - 03:46 PM (#861877) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: C-flat Guest, I think you have some sort of complex. My comments are true and sincere. If you choose to disbelieve them or try to "read between the lines" something that isn't there, I really can't help you out. |
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08 Jan 03 - 04:00 PM (#861893) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST,Pete This thread is providing a fascinating insight into the American psyche. |
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08 Jan 03 - 04:05 PM (#861898) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: McGrath of Harlow Never respond to a GUEST (anon). It's just not worth it. More times than not it's a wind-up. |
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08 Jan 03 - 04:10 PM (#861906) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: C-flat You're right of course McGrath, I've been around here long enough to know better but I don't like this all-or-nothing generalising of opinion. |
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08 Jan 03 - 04:41 PM (#861932) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST Some readers may find Why do people hate America? of interest. |
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08 Jan 03 - 05:04 PM (#861955) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST,Frank Hamilton I purposely didn't take the test. I believe that it's probably informative for some. I know there are those who hate us. America is a composite of many different views. Not everyone follows a specific party line and I think that most of the people that I've talked to do not think we will win any popularity contests in the rest of the world but at the same time, many overseas who criticize America might want to live here. Criticism is fine, though. It's an important part of our democracy. There is nothing sacrosanct about any country in the world. History can make a case for many flaws in every government. The thing about the US though is that we still can agree to disagree without being arrested or persecuted by our own government. I hope to God that this doesn't change. There are these facistic tendencies in every government including ours. Bush did not win by a landslide. He squeaked in through the Electoral College and an inept voting precedure in Florida. His views do not represent all of America by a long shot. It's my wish as an American that our country can take the lead in galvanizing the largest peace movement ever. Frank |
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08 Jan 03 - 05:16 PM (#861962) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Kim C I don't necessarily believe that the whole world hates the USA as much as I believe the media enjoys making us believe that the whole world hates the USA. Our own media included. I have travelled to Europe, and had a great time. People were nice to me everywhere I went, including Paris. Yes. People were nice to me in Paris. I was shocked because all my life I'd heard that the French hate us and are incredibly rude. That was not my experience at all. Sure, a couple of people giggled at my attempts to speak French, and some politely corrected my grammar. But they were all willing to try to communicate with me, even if it meant waving their arms around and making hand gestures, and in one case, drawings. I have no doubt that SOME people don't like us. But I don't think ALL, or even MOST, people are that way. If they were, we would not have so many visitors and immigrants in America. |
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08 Jan 03 - 05:17 PM (#861964) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST The thing about the US though is that we still can agree to disagree without being arrested or persecuted by our own government Mmmm, really? I think many immigrant muslims would disagree. |
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08 Jan 03 - 05:20 PM (#861968) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Bill D well! *grin*....such a lot of posts since I had my little tantrum! "Weird look at BillD for reacting so violently to such a benign post." and yes, katlaughing had it right...I am tired of anonymous posts with loaded titles. As was said, the POLL may be benign, but the title itself was meant to stir up things and push buttons. Let me be clear about what upsets me: ...........There is NO good reason most anonymous postings, and when they are just political trolling, they are offensive BECAUSE they are anonymous. Unless someone states clearly and reasonnably why they MUST post using no identity whatsoever, I will continue to object! There are plenty of discussion going on between people here who are opinionated, but honest and open about who they are. Doug R and Conrad the #1 peasant, and gargoyle and many others ..including me, have controversial things to say, but when I answer them, I know that I am discussing it with someone who is not afraid to do more than leaving inflammatory posters nailed to the trees and doors! If someone has and interesting titbit to pass on from a news source, let them say so without the cutesy "you'll never know who said this, but I dare you to comment" crap! 98% of our members AND guests have identities, so we can carry on discussions like normal people. I'd LOVE to see a thread where everyone todssed their cookies and responded as 'guest' so that it would be clear just how awkward it is!...better yet, of course, would be if NO ONE ..as in NO ONE AT ALL responded when anonymous trolls happened....but I want a lot, don't I? |
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08 Jan 03 - 05:24 PM (#861972) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST And the Nobel Prize for 'totally missing the point' is awarded to Kim C. The prize is a cylindrical hat with a D on the front. |
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08 Jan 03 - 05:49 PM (#861987) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: McGrath of Harlow The BBC's heading: "How widespread is anti-Americanism?" would have been less likely to be taken as kicking sand in anybody's faces. I try to make a point of never responding directly to or acknowledging the existence of the Nameless. Maybe that's a bit unfair in some few cases, but after all, it is their choice to walk round wearing a paper bag over their head. |
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08 Jan 03 - 05:54 PM (#861988) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST That's right McGrath, it's a choice. |
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08 Jan 03 - 05:56 PM (#861991) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST and I'd have thought that you'd respect that? |
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08 Jan 03 - 05:58 PM (#861993) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Kim C Gee, I'm sorry, could you be more specific about which point I totally missed? |
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08 Jan 03 - 05:59 PM (#861994) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST OK McGrath, we get it now. You've said to our nameless faces twice in a row, that you are ignoring us. And as you can see, it really upsets us. The point I'm making isn't about individual Britsh citizens being anti-American. But I am stating my positions that anti-Americanism is rampant in Britain. Now, regardless of the personal inclinations of British Mudcatters, do they agree or disagree with that position? |
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08 Jan 03 - 06:05 PM (#861999) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST Time for a 'google fight' Why don't the results suprise me? |
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08 Jan 03 - 06:17 PM (#862008) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Bill D .....and anyone who can't see the flaw in THAT needs help! anti-americanism IS an 'issue', nothing says that 2 illion votes are 'against America'.....Google fight...pshaw, says I. |
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08 Jan 03 - 06:20 PM (#862011) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST Of course it's flawed and stupid, Bill. It does however make a point. |
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08 Jan 03 - 06:37 PM (#862022) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: TheBigPinkLad I still like you, and that's all that counts. I once made a list of ten things that piss me off about America(ns) then tempered it with another list of ten things I really like about America(ns). When I repeated this process I very soon ran out of things that piss me off and could have continued with the good stuff for much much longer. Disney was on one side and the Bridgeport Brewpub was on the other. ;o) |
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08 Jan 03 - 06:38 PM (#862024) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: McGrath of Harlow And anybody who wonders why GUESTS (anon) tends to be regarded with distrust, just click on GUEST at the top of any post, and see what come up, over 17,000 posts (but they come in handy 200-at-a-time packages now). Not pleasant reading, some of them. |
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08 Jan 03 - 06:41 PM (#862027) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST Well, Catspaw has more, mostly 'hilarious' fart jokes recently, but that's by the by |
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08 Jan 03 - 06:47 PM (#862034) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST McGrath, that is one stupid argument to try and put forward. Of those "over 17,000 posts" you cite, what percentage do you suppose are members with no cookies? Guests who sign their names at the bottom of their posts? But if you really want to know how specious of an argument you are making, try clicking on catspaw's name, and you'll find he has all the anon guests combined beat. 17,914 posts. You are so passive aggressive about the anon guest thing McGrath. It really is your Mudcat Achilles heel. Makes you look like an idiot, going on and on saying "ignore the people I'm telling you again and again and again to ignore". It's your choice to look the fool, of course. |
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08 Jan 03 - 07:21 PM (#862072) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST,another one Who cares if some shithead in Britain hates Americans? No country is perfect, not even yours.As far as America helping Britain out in their terror, ever hear of WWII? |
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08 Jan 03 - 07:24 PM (#862073) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST What is more in line with this thread, is to do a google search with this: "anti-Americanism in Britain" You will see that the media reports this as being a phenomenon mostly of the left, and a few on the right. However, if you keep searching, you can find plenty of statistics, polls, opinion pieces, etc. to show that anti-Americanism is one of the most socially acceptable cultural prejudices in Europe today. Now, as an American, I'm not shocked by that, and I do understand it politically. But the social prejudice is just hate and bigotry, dressed up in politically acceptable terms. Like telling an anti-American, obviously bigoted joke, and then excusing it by following it up with a statement about Bush. Heard it often when I was there. Another thing is, many Brits can't wait to tell visiting Americans how hated they are. Encountered this in the pubs, the B & Bs, everywhere. It is a deeply held cultural prejudice in Britain, and can't all be blamed on the 2000 election. This hatred of Americans in Britain has existed on the ground for as long as I can remember (my first trip to Britain was in the late 60s). |
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08 Jan 03 - 07:29 PM (#862075) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST BTW, I love visiting Britain. I've been there 4 times. And I also know how loathed the British are in many places around the world, for the same reason that Americans are hated. We've replaced them in some places, but in others, in certain parts of Asia especially, the hatred for Brits still far outpaces hatred for Americans. |
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08 Jan 03 - 07:46 PM (#862093) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Bill D THEY'RE RIOTING IN AFRICA (THE MERRY MINUET) (Sheldon Harnick) Intro: There are days in my life when everything is dreary I grow pessimistic, sad and world weary. But when I'm tearful and fearfully upset I always sing this merry little minuet: They're rioting in Africa They're starving in Spain There's hurricanes in Florida And Texas needs rain. The whole world is festering With unhappy souls The French hate the Germans, The Germans hate the Poles Italians hate Yugoslavs South Africans hate the Dutch And I don't like anybody very much But we can be grateful And thankful and proud That man's been endowed With a mushroom shaped cloud And we know for certain That some happy day Someone will set the spark off And we will all be blown away They're rioting in Africa There's strife in Iran What nature doesn't do to us Will be done by our fellow man. |
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09 Jan 03 - 04:18 AM (#862321) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST I think that you're talking about the English, and not the Scots, the welsh or the people of Northern Ireland. unlike you lot how are quite a bit away from them as Scots and Welsh live next door to them. And we can't stand them not as individals but as a nation |
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09 Jan 03 - 04:28 AM (#862325) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Keith A of Hertford I love the USA. I have trained with the National Guard in Kentucky and Rhode Island, where I earned US para wings that I wear with pride. WW2 has been thrust at us (Brits) in this thread as putting us in your debt. Well yes, but 1.Hitler was a threat to the world not just us. How about some credit for us standing alone for a year against him, thwarting his attempt to invade us, and defeating his German and Italian armies in Africa before you joined us. 2. You did not join us until they attacked you. The Martial Plan however puts us and all Europe deeply in your debt. PS Sadaam, like Hitler, is a threat to all. I am glad we are not hesitating to join you. Best wishes, Keith. |
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09 Jan 03 - 05:15 AM (#862344) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: stevetheORC Yes we have heard about ww11, and the only reason that you joined was Japans attack on Pearl plus adolf declaring war on you so please leave that one out. I deal with Americans quite a lot and have know many over the years yes you have your faults but dont we all? All that i can say about Guest is he is a paranoic racist with a hatred of Brits, and cant understand that we actually like you yanks and wishes that it was not so. |
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10 Jan 03 - 10:51 AM (#863499) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST,Frank Hamilton To the anonymous "guest". You are correct in saying that there are those of Middle-East background who are being detained by the government now but this is being widely debated in the media in this country. It would not be in debate in many countries of the world. We still have a free press and the ability to deseminate information without serious reprisals. After all, that's what we're doing here on Mudcat aren't we? This detention is an abberation that will be addressed and corrected when many Americans begin to value the power of the vote. Eventually the situation regarding the internment of Japanese by the government during the WW II was addressed by the media as well as the infamous McCarthy period which was uncloaked. There is no country in the world that is free from some sort of repression but fortunately built into our system of government, there is a mechanism whereby these deviations can be addressed and corrected. Stay tuned. Frank Frank ------------------------------------------------------------------ Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST Date: 08 Jan 03 - 05:17 PM The thing about the US though is that we still can agree to disagree without being arrested or persecuted by our own government Mmmm, really? I think many immigrant muslims would disagree. |
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10 Jan 03 - 11:04 AM (#863513) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST,Frank Hamilton Mudcatters, I feel the need to apologize to you all. I responded to those who call themselves "guests" without a real person's name attached. I don't believe they are really guests. I won't repeat this mistake. From now on, unless I know who I'm writing to, I won't respond. As I recall, this post was started by a "guest" and is corrupted by his/her (?) anonymity. Peace, Frank |
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10 Jan 03 - 11:47 AM (#863549) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Kim C When I went to Britain I didn't encounter any anti-American sentiments. If anything, my experience was just the opposite. Or maybe I've missed the point again. After all, it was 15 years ago. |
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10 Jan 03 - 12:32 PM (#863596) Subject: Polling Geniuses? From: Matthias Although the BBC is one of the "most respected news organisations in the world," that's evidently not saying much. After reading the BBC World Service poll about "the world's favorite song" I now believe that the BBC ain't so great at polling. Matthias |
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10 Jan 03 - 02:28 PM (#863703) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: stevetheORC Our beloved BBC could not poll its way out of a paper bag!! Frank there is no need for you to say sorry for those who obviously lack the guts to say who they are. Kim you would be welcome over here still, and I hope that you enjoyed recieving your baseball card I hand picked it:-) |
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10 Jan 03 - 05:00 PM (#863852) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Kim C You picked the baseball card! Yes, indeed - I very much enjoyed opening that, as no one ever gave me a baseball card before! :-) Maybe we thinks Orcses isn't so nassssty after all, then, preciousssss. Back on the subject of news, though... I said this on another thread... I think news agencies simply delight in getting people riled for one reason or another. It's all about the sensationalism. They print headlines that have little relevance to the stories, just to suck people in, and get some sort of gut/knee-jerk reaction. Until polls can poll every single living person in the world, they won't put forth any really important information. |
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11 Jan 03 - 04:37 AM (#864223) Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: stevetheORC Quite agree, all you have to do in this country is play us at soccer (a horrible game) and watch the venom appear in the press. And god help you if you are the England Manager(Head Coach to our American cousind) and you loose!!! |