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07 Feb 03 - 09:37 AM (#884742) Subject: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: catspaw49 Just your votes please. You can explain why, but please don't get into your beliefs as to the "rightness" or "wrongness" of the situation although you can add a bit if you absolutely need to. Just simply, will the US go to war with Iraq or not? I think it's inevitable, and very soon. Every Guard and Reserve support unit around here has been called up, Powell says it is now in the "end game," Bush says Iraq's time is up, and....if you want real proof.....the 101st Airborne has been re-deployed. Jack Kennedy saw the importance of taking action but saw the equal importance of gaining the backing of the OAS, NATO, and of course the UN, before taking that unilateral action. It was a strong action we took then, but an action tempered continually with an eye toward stopping it as soon as possible, when conditions were met. Bush will not do this, but will only ignore Iraqi concessions, or add new stipulations, whatever is required, to flex American muscle. It's going to happen folks. Spaw------------Somebody say it ain't so please!!!!! |
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07 Feb 03 - 11:23 AM (#884798) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Sorcha Sorry, I'm afraid we will. Don't like it, but there ya go. |
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07 Feb 03 - 11:25 AM (#884800) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Bagpuss My earlier post to this thread got eaten! Yes. |
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07 Feb 03 - 11:30 AM (#884805) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Teribus The US won't, the UN will unless Saddam bucks his ideas up. |
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07 Feb 03 - 11:57 AM (#884824) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: stevetheORC It's going to happen folks as sure as eggs is eggs. GW wants it and what GW wants he gets. Orc |
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07 Feb 03 - 11:58 AM (#884825) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Naemanson Yes we will. Bush needs the war to distract the US from the lousy job he's doing at home and he needs Iraqi oil to line the pockets of all his oil buddies. |
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07 Feb 03 - 12:13 PM (#884833) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: BanjoRay If there's no war, then Bush is a better poker player than Saddam, and has made him throw in his hand (and his weapons). Somehow I doubt that! ie YES. Cheers Ray |
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07 Feb 03 - 12:14 PM (#884834) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: GUEST,jaze Sadly, yes. I have a cold,cold fear in the pit of my stomach over what's to come. |
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07 Feb 03 - 12:29 PM (#884837) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: NicoleC I haven't given up hope yet it will be averted, but yes, I do think so. |
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07 Feb 03 - 12:46 PM (#884853) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: *daylia* I thought there was a 50-50 chance either way until I saw recruiting ads for the Canadian Armed Forces on TV this week. I hadn't seen ads like that for many years, and my hopes sank. So now I'm guessing the odds are more like 75-25 in favor of going to war. And that REALLY SUCKS!!!! There's still hope though. Whatever people are choosing to do to influence towards peace, please keep it up and DON'T GIVE UP. |
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07 Feb 03 - 12:49 PM (#884857) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Don Firth What Nicole said. Don Firth |
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07 Feb 03 - 12:52 PM (#884860) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: InOBU For my answer, check out this thread... "I've been asked to sing to the far right" - Cheers Larry PS Any max clones feel free to make a blue clickythingee... |
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07 Feb 03 - 12:56 PM (#884865) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: GUEST I think war has always been the intention of Bush. I see little hope of it being avoided. |
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07 Feb 03 - 01:00 PM (#884867) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Ebbie Yes |
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07 Feb 03 - 01:03 PM (#884870) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: GUEST Actually thinking again, NO the US will not. Assuming it happens, it will be worse than that - the US and the UK will. Jon |
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07 Feb 03 - 01:09 PM (#884877) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: gnu At sundown, Iraqi time, February 15. |
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07 Feb 03 - 01:15 PM (#884881) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: GUEST Yes and no. The US will go to war, but only as part of the UN. Bush's grandstanding is meant to legitimize the UN and undermine US national sovereignty. Before long the US will have UN backing, and the war will begin. |
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07 Feb 03 - 01:15 PM (#884882) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Gareth Saddam has already declared war, against Isreal, the West, and his own people. If war there is, and Saddam can stop it, then I am happy to say "Yes 1 - in my name !!" Gareth |
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07 Feb 03 - 01:22 PM (#884886) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: DougR Yes, the U.S. will lead a coalition of nations with or without UN support. DougR |
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07 Feb 03 - 01:34 PM (#884894) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: GUEST,Forum Lurker The U.S. will not declare war. A disarmament intervention, though, will almost certainly happen, supported by Britain and no one else. |
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07 Feb 03 - 01:48 PM (#884904) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Rapparee Bush will, yes. |
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07 Feb 03 - 02:02 PM (#884913) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Peter T. Dearly as I love catspaw, I think this is a dumb way of asking questions, which I notice is spreading. The question is "ought" they go to war, not will they. Voting on "will" they is simply expressing your opinion on how you think the future will unfold. It is like voting on whether Shania Twain's current album will sell 10 million copies. It may, whether you like it or not. It is disempowering, as if you are predicting whether or not you will be crushed by a big machine. yours, Peter T. |
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07 Feb 03 - 02:04 PM (#884917) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: McGrath of Harlow I suppose it depends what you mean by war. There'll be an overwhelming and devastating attack on Iraq, that's pretty clear and it has been all along, regardless of anybody outside the White House. Just as the people who planned September 11th must have hoped for. |
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07 Feb 03 - 02:13 PM (#884924) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: MMario Peter - whether the US "will" go to war and whether the US "ought" to go to war are two seperate and distinct questions. And the answer to the former could well be yes even if the answer to the latter is no! It could be argued that the correct answer to the latter question is *ALWAYS* "No". |
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07 Feb 03 - 02:27 PM (#884936) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: catspaw49 Peter, I love you too...........And at the moment (and over the past few months) we have about 50 or so threads focusing on the "ought" part with opinions being expressed by many here. I think a majority of the "regulars" have posted on them, and while opinions may vary, they are all about the reality of the actions being taken. In all of that I realized that it was extremely rare for anyone to state their belief on whether or not it would actually happen. With the exception of one dark humor thread, a betting pool on when, not much has been said about "whether"....only the "ought." So frankly, I was just curious. As I suspected, at this point at least, the feeling is that this war is going to take place. That was all this one was about. Though these too are only opinions, I wanted to know. I would hope that everyone goes on with their actions to stop this thing. Sorry if I made it a sillyass news poll but there you are. Spaw |
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07 Feb 03 - 02:49 PM (#884956) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Jeri Spaw, I thought it was a nice change from the numerous "ought" threads. If anything, it's interesting to see who can manage to post without getting on a soap box. I think we'll go, and the UK will go with us. I think it's very likely the UN will go with Bush, probably very close to the actual start of hostilities. If not, we'll still go. What happens once the fighting starts is anyone's guess but may wind up making things a whole lot scarier than they will be at the beginning. |
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07 Feb 03 - 03:06 PM (#884965) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Sorcha I think Oz is in too..........they sent troops to the Gulf. |
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07 Feb 03 - 03:16 PM (#884972) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: NicoleC Probably, Sorcha, but didn't Howard just get slapped down big time? |
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07 Feb 03 - 03:25 PM (#884980) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: 53 yes. |
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07 Feb 03 - 03:35 PM (#884985) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: McGrath of Harlow Well, Oz sent troops to Vietnam. |
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07 Feb 03 - 03:43 PM (#884987) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Bobert No, we are *allready* at war with Iraq and bombing it almost daily. But if the question is "Is there going to be an all out attack!" You can take it to the bank. And then Iran, and then , and then.... as long as the current regime is in power the US will be at war somewhere killing other folks and our kids. The reasons? The usual list: stupidity, shortsightedness, meaness, testosterone, greed, mental problems of GWB, etc. Bobert |
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07 Feb 03 - 03:54 PM (#884993) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: GUEST,whatever guest The Charles DeGaulle (carrier) has been deployed to the eastern Mediterranean. Howzacom? |
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07 Feb 03 - 04:27 PM (#885004) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: jimlad No way!! When it Finally dawns on Saddam that this time there is an odds on chance that a 'Bullet' with his name on it is heading in his direction. He will take Ghaddafi's offer of asylum and retire. This will happen When the the UN offer him Immunity from War Crimes prosecution |
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07 Feb 03 - 04:34 PM (#885009) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: McGrath of Harlow And that would stop it? I hope so, but I have my doubts. Unfortunately the often expressed assumption that just because someone is cruel and ruthless they must be cowardly is one that isn't borne out by history. I'd have thought September 11 would have finally dispelled that dangerous fantasy. |
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07 Feb 03 - 04:38 PM (#885013) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: leprechaun I'm not happy about it, and neither is George W Bush, but yes, the war is coming. |
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07 Feb 03 - 04:41 PM (#885017) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Thomas the Rhymer No. The illusion of 'will we go to war?' is a smoke and mirrors distraction for the looting of the US economy. We ARE at war with Iraq. ttr |
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07 Feb 03 - 04:49 PM (#885024) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Ebbie Another George (1984) wrote something like (I'm paraphrasing): "For decades there had been one long continuous war, although admittedly it had not always been the same war... In each case, the opposing side was evil." |
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07 Feb 03 - 04:49 PM (#885025) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: artbrooks no |
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07 Feb 03 - 05:01 PM (#885030) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: GUEST Bobert... GWBush GAVE us the reasoning behind his thinking on war. There are 66 rogue nations, he said, which might be 'terrorist'. And coincidentally, these are the nations without central banks. Central government banks answerable to the World Bank. Bush is waging war for the IMF / World Bank. THAT is the specific reason for his hawkishness. Then there are the side-issues, which most people think are the MAIN issues. For instance, most of Bush's 'rogue nations' are Muslim, because Islam forbids usury. How convenient. GWBush isn't Christian, but he is now playing the part of a Christian to get the folks at home stirred up about the 'heathens'. 'They' bombed us, etc. Some people think the war with Iraq is to gurantee the U.S. oil supply, but that was discounted long ago. Most of the oil will go to the U.N. and China. Gasoline (petrol) prices in the U.S. won't go down because of the war, and 85% of our industry has gone overseas in the past 30 years, so our industry won't benefit from cheaper fuel. No...GW told us up front how many 'rogue nations' there were. And now the U.N. will systematically conquer them and set up a central bank in each country. And plug away at the population-reduction plan along the way. |
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07 Feb 03 - 05:20 PM (#885043) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Peter T. My point is that people are being asked to vote on their feeling of whether something will happen, which is like voting on whether the Yankees will win the pennant this year. It is exactly like those stupid phone in programs where people play coach -- "Of course if he's well, then they stand a good chance of doing well at first base." What is the point? It is symptomatic of the loss of citizenship: "What do you think the Emperor Augustus will do?" "Well, he was frowning this morning, so watch out." yours, Peter T. |
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07 Feb 03 - 05:31 PM (#885046) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Peg I find it interesting that a "date of invasion" has been set (February 15th) and all of a sudden our terrorist alert meter is upgraded to orange...the paranoid in me suspects there will be a suspicious "terrorist" attack in the next few days which will somehow galvanize a reluctant citizenry to want to go to war with, well, anyone. Remember the days after 9-11? Muslims being attacked in American streets? People wanting the USA to attack Afghanistan when absolutely no logical reason could be found to do so? What did that heartless campaign do for us? If our goddamned government were not so paranoid, fearful and willing to root out the worst behavior from everyone in the world whom they treat as allies one minute (or at least customers for their war toys, ha ha) and enemies the next...well, I might feel more hope. But they are in charge, and they are not listening to their constituents, and they are crushing our spirit. |
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07 Feb 03 - 05:39 PM (#885054) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Janie Yes, I believe our government will. But I will continue in prayer, vigil and public witness in my home community to help support a miracle. Guest, Your line of thought seems very cogent. I gotta' think about your thesis for awhile. Thanks for posting. Janie |
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07 Feb 03 - 05:40 PM (#885056) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Thomas the Rhymer If they are * trying * to crush our spirit, they've got a long long way to go! We're just waking up... ttr |
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07 Feb 03 - 05:57 PM (#885069) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Peg I'm not giving up yet Thomas! But it's demoralizing when the rest of the world judges us based on the actions of our rogue government... |
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07 Feb 03 - 06:18 PM (#885079) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: GUEST Regime change needs to begin at home, don't forget...that is why I'm attending to the protest end of business, myself. I never thought for a second that the protests were actually to influence the Bush?blair administration. It is to influence US & world opinions. To change the people's minds. That said, I'm with Peter. I don't see much use to these silly polls. |
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07 Feb 03 - 06:39 PM (#885091) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: McGrath of Harlow Putting the question that way is maybe a way of helping us think out of the rut - instead of thinking how to stop the war from starting, the attention changes to thinking how to stop it continuing. Either way it's Stop the War. And even the ones who want to start it - or to be fair in most cases, see it as necessary to start it (nobody wants to start it, apart from those who have reeason to themselves as the likely beneficiaries, notably Al Qaida, and some parts of the US economy) - even they must see the objective from now on has to be finding a way to end it. |
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07 Feb 03 - 07:12 PM (#885126) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: GUEST,wdyat24 This war must take place! Jeeshh! It's like waiting for the SuperBowl or the World Series! wdyat24 |
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07 Feb 03 - 07:52 PM (#885168) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Bobert GUEST: You are absolutely right in that I did not list as one of the motivational forces "corporate globalization" which is indeed the cornerstone of the New World Order. Sometimes I do loose sight of that thru the total insanity of the real possibilities of an uncontrollable World War. Bobert |
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07 Feb 03 - 08:10 PM (#885190) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: GUEST,wdyat24 Bullshit!! We're scared!Yes we're going to war! "Cause the Bible tells me so!" Don't forget the profecies. wdyat24 PS. I never wanted to be a Christian, I always wanted to be a Lumberjack! I'm a lumberjack! and that's OK! |
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07 Feb 03 - 08:16 PM (#885195) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Bobert Yo wdyat24: Hey, maybe you could be... ahhh, a "Christain Lumberjack"? Plenty of 'em and when ya' Jesus in your heart, then you don't have to be scared no more... Just a thought. He's got a place setting at the table waiting for you, my friend... Bober |
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07 Feb 03 - 08:17 PM (#885198) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: catspaw49 Or yoou could take your ax and chop off Jesus' fingers or arm or something...........Your choice. Spaw |
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07 Feb 03 - 08:22 PM (#885203) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: GUEST We
currently at war with Iraq! |
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07 Feb 03 - 08:28 PM (#885209) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: GUEST Subject: RE: BS: Hit me with some baby names!!!! From: catspaw49 - PM Date: 04 Feb 03 - 08:47 AM Cynical? Oh, I don't know.......I tried entering "Asshole" as a first name and then "Dipshit" followed by "Scumbag"......Here are the results: ********************************************************************* The name of Asshole has given you an appreciation for many beautiful and refined aspects of life--music and art, literature, drama--and the outdoors, where you find much peace and relaxation, but it creates a far too sensitive nature. You sense and feel much that you do not understand, and sometimes you are alarmed at your thoughts and wonder about their origin. You rarely experience the tranquility that comes with stability of thinking or emotional control. At times, you are very inspired, desiring to be with people and to entertain others as the "life of the party," while at other times you are aloof and choose to remove yourself entirely from association. You crave understanding and affection but your intensity of desire and your self-consciousness prevent you from finding the happiness you desire. You have suffered many disappointments and misunderstandings because of your inability to express your inner thoughts. You could experience sensitivity in the heart, lungs, or bronchial organs, causing tuberculosis, asthma, or depletion of your energies. While the first name of Asshole has some constructive qualities, it has characteristics that undermine your long-term happiness and success in life. ********************************************************************* While your name of Dipshit gives you an intense desire to be of service to others, it brings out a practical, technical nature, and you become involved in fussy little details that detract from the fulfilment of your greater ideals. You are a very patient person and will work hard one step at a time to accomplish your goals. Not interested in large undertakings, you are content to live from day to day to save for your future. Always budgeting carefully, you do not believe in frivolous spending. You tend to be thorough in building a solid foundation of fact and logic, but you are not especially imaginative or investigative. You are particular and quite set in your way you want things to be done. Once you have made up your mind or formed an opinion it is not easily changed. Hence there is a restriction in friendships and business opportunities. This name stimulates urges and desires for which there is no creative outlet and the ensuing frustration creates nervous tension which centres in the region of the solar plexus and intestinal organs, causing constipation, intestinal trouble, boils, or growths. You feel emotional frustrations and disturbances that create irritability and a strong temper. While the first name of Dipshit has some constructive qualities, it has characteristics that undermine your long-term happiness and success in life. ********************************************************************** Your first name of Scumbag has given you creative ability, imagination along practical lines, and the patience to pay attention to detail for a while. Although you are attracted to technical, mechanical, scientific fields, you lack the patience to follow through with this interest. This name gives a certain amount of practicality to your thinking; but there is also a tendency to scatter your efforts for, although you want system and order and stability in your life, you are too apt to be distracted from the job you are doing and to become involved in spontaneous interests. You are good-natured, have a good sense of humour, and are fairly easy-going, making friends with those who enjoy a good time. A weakness of this name is a tendency to make promises which you have difficulty in keeping. You tend to be lavish in your tastes and to spend your money freely. You have a heart of gold and are always ready to give generously. Since your feelings are strong and you tend to be enthusiastic and boisterous, you burn up your energies quickly and indulge in quick-energy foods, sweets, and starches. This type of diet affects the functions of the liver, causing either suffering with gall stones, jaundice, or skin troubles. While the first name of Scumbag has some constructive qualities, it has characteristics that undermine your long-term happiness and success in life. ********************************************************************** SPAW |
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07 Feb 03 - 08:35 PM (#885214) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: catspaw49 Your point being what Guest? Spaw |
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07 Feb 03 - 08:52 PM (#885224) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Bobert Okeeeee Dokeeee, the bobert says as he quietly slips off into the shadows.... What the heck was that? Hmmmmmm? Nevermind. Like I said up top, GUEST, we are very much at war. The big show is going to come when the 4th Invantry, 1st Cav, 1st Armored, 1st Mechsanized Infantry, 101st Air Assualt, 1st Fighter Wing, 4th Fighter Wing and 28th Bombardment supplies arrive inl late Feb or first week of March. Then for the folks who don't think the war has satrted or will start are gonna figure it out real quick. Oh, did I mention that a lot of kids and women and old people are going to be killed long before Saddam? Bobert |
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07 Feb 03 - 09:07 PM (#885235) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: NicoleC Unless, of course, Saddam is as smart as ol' bin Laden, and we resort to reports about how he was kinda sick once so he's probabnly dead now... |
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07 Feb 03 - 09:15 PM (#885239) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Bobert Nicole: I love your optimism and that's a nice thought. Hey, I have thought of that scenero but I think it more likely he'd just go to Lybia and play chess with his old buddy Kadaffi before feining sickness. But fact *is* strenger than fiction. It would get Bush off the hook but I'm not sure the boy would learn a danged thing and probably repeat his wuff-wuff act against NK and get 30,000 American servicemen and a few million South Koreans blown the heck up.... But there's always hope. Maybe Bush will be the one whop gets real sick and his doctors tell him that he has to chill out... BObert |
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07 Feb 03 - 09:30 PM (#885245) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: NicoleC Darn, I wasn't being optimistic. I was referring to our oh-so-successful hunt for bin Laden, and the US's fallback position which was to just assume he's dead without evidence -- and therefore claim victory! |
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07 Feb 03 - 09:44 PM (#885252) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Bobert Works for me.... Problem is that bin Laden was on dialysis before having to go and live in caves.... Bobert |
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07 Feb 03 - 09:49 PM (#885254) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Richie Yes, we will go to war unless Saddam does the something other than think about himself. There's always hope that Saddam will bow out. The war will start before the end of February. -Richie |
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07 Feb 03 - 09:50 PM (#885255) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: GUEST wdyat24, you mentioned prophecies-last night on a call in radio program someone suggested the reason the pope is suddenly getting more involved and wanting to speak to the major players in this has to do with the Third Secret of Fatima. Maybe the pope knows something we don't? |
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07 Feb 03 - 09:50 PM (#885256) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Jeri Guest, gratuitous funky HTML, loves Spaw, can't figure out what the hell their point is, why they're posting (and occasionally what they're saying at all)...gosh, who could that be? (Rhetorical question.) Peter, while you're convinced you're so unquestionably right that there's no point in asking anyone else for their opinions, I keep hoping someone will come up with a plausible scenario allowing Bush to NOT keep headed down this road. The major reason I think we're going to end up in a war is that it seems to me Bush has been headed straight for this from day 1 with blinkers on, bound and determined to just keep rolling on with absolutely no willingness to give other options a try. I'd like to believe there's some possibility I'm wrong. |
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07 Feb 03 - 09:57 PM (#885259) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Ebbie Jeri, sometimes I fantasize that the man will put on his brakes, telling the world that in light of our economy and the runaway deficit, coupled with the absence of found evidence in Iraq, not to mention that North Korea needs some tlc, we're going to stay put for the time being. He will (ha!) tell Saddam, Be careful. We will keep our eye on you; don't make any false moves. But you're off the hook for now... Yeah. Right. |
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07 Feb 03 - 10:39 PM (#885267) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Bobert Ebbie: For just a brief second I allowed myself to go there. It was really a nice place to be. Even for a second. It is so sad that so many people have so much more *wisdom* from their experiences of walking amoung the earthlings, and this guy ends up calling the shots. But thanks for *that second*. Bobert |
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07 Feb 03 - 11:17 PM (#885282) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Amos I hear ya 5 x 5 guys. But the mass mind is stirred up by the hypnotic voice of a maker of war. And the 150,000 men and their prepositioned munitions and weaponry are unsheathed, and there's a lot of blood flowing through human veins in Iraq which is blissfully pumping away on borrowed time, muscles and tissues walking around dreaming if immortality and coming up for a short, sharp and sudden surprise, marriages vowed for life about to be cut short and childhoods about to be wracked with unexpected orphaning or worse -- all based on deep and serious cognitive dysfunction. Gnashing of teeth. I give it two weeks to the start, and six months to the end, at the outside, unless the dominos start falling. If that happens all bets are off. A |
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07 Feb 03 - 11:27 PM (#885287) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Peg this is depressing. |
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07 Feb 03 - 11:40 PM (#885290) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: *daylia* Canada's poets laureate George Bowering votes a bitter yes. Figured his thoughts would blend in ok here too. Had to post his voice twice so he could vote his NO on the "Should the US and UK go to War with Iraq" thread. My odds are wavering about 85-15 now ... :-( daylia |
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07 Feb 03 - 11:46 PM (#885296) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: *daylia* Hey Peg, we agreed on something! There's hope yet! {{{ :-) }}} Even if it WAS about how depressing this is ... |
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07 Feb 03 - 11:59 PM (#885300) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: GUEST Janie... For more information on how the World Bank destroys countries, go to this interview: Stiglitz Interview One of the former heads of the IMF/World Bank (a nobel prize winner for economics...so he KNOWS what he's describing) talks about the 4-step plan the World Bank uses to destroy a country. Basically, they bribe the officials into signing over everything of value in the country for personal gain, then they wait until the country has trouble paying off the 'loans' and they take possession of the country. It's about to happen in the U.S. The Bush family has been working for these folks forever, and they're emptying our Treasury so we'll be forced into defaulting on our loans. And then the World Bank will own the collateral that was put up for the loans...things like the Great Lakes. |
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08 Feb 03 - 03:55 AM (#885367) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: GUEST,polaitaly Yes, I think we will. And saying "we" I mean that Italians will join, because Berlusconi is fighting with Tony Blair about who is the best ass-licker for George Bush. For now Blair is winning, but maybe Berlusca has a chance: he's so short he can do the task whitout kneeling. |
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08 Feb 03 - 05:52 AM (#885389) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: BlueJay Once called to war, armies seldom retreat. The decision has been made. Right or wrong, the U.S. and it's allies will soon have their children arriving home in body bags. In sspite of his blustery talk, you really have to excuse George Bush. I doubt that he realizes that these decisions are made at a much higher level of awareness. HHelicopterss and tanks must be sold, (whether they work or not). Human casualties are irrelevant. Dead boys and girls don't affect profit/loss statements too much. Expendable, you know, the ultimate renewable resource. I predict that within six months, Bush will order a nuclear attack on Baghdad, called "little dick". God help us all. Thanks, BlueJay |
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08 Feb 03 - 08:31 AM (#885429) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: GUEST Baghdad, in the not so distant past, was a jewel in the crown of the Middle East, as was Beirut, and so many other astoundingly beautiful cities in the region. Fundamentalism is partly to blame. But the political vacuum into which fundamentalists rushed, was created by the British and American exploitation of the region for oil. |
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08 Feb 03 - 09:02 AM (#885439) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Jeri The military does sometimes retreat. The post-Gulf War Pheonix Scorpion II was a massive sword-waving campaign. It took us a very short time to get our troops in place, and when Hussein backed down, it took months to get them out. It cost millions of dollars, but no lives were lost in fighting, and it worked. If it doesn't work this time, it means that Hussein either doesn't think we'll follow through or he has cards he's not showing. Or perhaps this is just the "last defiant gesture" and he has a quick way out of a ravaged country, and a safe place to hide. |
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08 Feb 03 - 09:12 AM (#885441) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: GUEST I think the scenario Jeri suggests is the most likely. Saddam could go into exile at the eleventh hour to save his own hide, and the fact be made public rather quickly. But that also will leave a political vacuum in Iraq that the US and British forces will occupy the country to fill. I still prefer that scenario to all out war on Iraq, despite the fact that I hate the thought of the US and Britain dictating the terms to the people of Iraq, and of our tax dollars paying for the Cadillac version of Bush's world domination plan. One sadder scenario though, is what will happen to the country and the people of Iraq, if Saddam silently slips out the back door, and the US and British military turn the country upside down looking for him. |
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08 Feb 03 - 09:34 AM (#885443) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: saulgoldie In answer to the question posed: yes, we will either "go to" war or "expand" the war (depending on your take on our current status) and it will be by the end of February. |
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08 Feb 03 - 09:54 AM (#885447) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: katlaughing jeri, the only way it might get through to the shrub without a brain is if he somehow becomes unable to fulfill his role as supreme potentate. If that were to happen, though, Cheney would be worse, imo, as he'd be even more dangerous with gloves off, so to speak. Sorry, Spaw, I know you didn't want this mucked up. I cnanot bring myself to answer your question. In my heart I have to believe that the metaphysical forces I believe in will prevail with a peaceful resolution. kat |
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08 Feb 03 - 10:23 AM (#885461) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: GUEST If the US and Britain don't expand the war on Iraq, I don't think the reasons for it will be attributable to metaphysical forces. It may, however, be at least partly attributable to intensely focused human intentions to avoid war on the international level, followed by intensely focused human political actions on the international level. Prayer, or meditation, or whatever form of communication it is that people use to focus their attention, has historically been a lousy means of preventing war and violence. It is an excellent means of focusing one's attention on preventing war and violence, and one's intention to take right action to prevent war and violence. But relying strictly on prayer/meditation to defeat the forces of tyranny, malevolence, etc. is a well proven recipe for tyranny, malevolence, etc to remain firmly entrenched, and largely unchecked. |
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08 Feb 03 - 10:37 AM (#885468) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Amos That's only because those who are involved in tyranny and violence are heavily blocked, damped and filtered from responding to metaphysics, as a general rule. Which means those who practice in metaphysical realms are just a little short on penetrating power. What is needed is the spiritual equivalent of an armor-piercing shell. I have known some cats who possessed that ability. :>) Wonder if we could train Kat's cats to beam Hussein? :>) Get those familiars earning their keep! :>) A |
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08 Feb 03 - 10:41 AM (#885472) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: *daylia* "Had a Dream (Sleeping with the Enemy)" Had a dream, I was born to be naked in the eye of the storm and now it's standing right in front of me what's it going to do to me, who knows? Had a dream, it was time to be taken to the front of the line well that is not a place you wanna be sleeping with the enemy, you know. Chorus: I don't care what the future brings, give a damn about anything I'd be fine if they'd only leave me alone But it's time, gotta take a stance 'cause I won't get a second chance And I know now I have to make it alone Had a dream it was war, and they couldn't tell me what it was for but it was something they could lie about, something we could die about, you know Anytime, anyplace when you look that man in the face Well it is not a face you wanna see, sleeping with the enemy, you know Mary, can you hear me, can you tell me what it's all supposed to mean holding out a photograph of all that I have seen I wish I could hold you, I wish I could hold you Had a dream, it was time to be a witness at the scene of the crime Well that is something you can analyze, something you can criticize, who knows So we wait, hesitate and we're making such a mistake Oh whatever can the matter be, sleeping with the enemy, you know" - Roger Hodgson (formerly of Supertramp) |
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08 Feb 03 - 10:49 AM (#885481) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: GUEST "That's only because those who are involved in tyranny and violence are heavily blocked, damped and filtered from responding to metaphysics, as a general rule." No, that isn't the reason. The reason is, humans can't control other humans with their thoughts. Thank god. |
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08 Feb 03 - 10:55 AM (#885489) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Peter T. Jeri, I don't see anything in my remarks saying I was unquestionably right or wrong about whether we will be going to war. I was assaulting the way the discussion was cast from the outset. I have to believe that change is possible, that nothing is inevitable in a democracy -- my disappointment is when everyone starts thinking like a cog in a machine. Of course, I am disappointed all the time, but that is the way it goes. I think that even if there is a war, the decisions have to be made in the teeth of protest, that historians cannot say that free people acquiesed in their own demise. Then again, I take the long view. yours, Peter T. |
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08 Feb 03 - 11:09 AM (#885500) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Amos Guest, It is clear from the authoritative ring of your statement that you have never been influenced by a thought from another human in your life. An ill-considered and dogmatic proposition if I have ever heard one. A |
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08 Feb 03 - 11:33 AM (#885529) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Jeri Sorry, Peter. I thought you were saying it's a stupid question because it's a given that the US is going to war. You just said the thread should be "should we go to war." There's a thread on that, but I don't know if it was started after this one or before. I think most, if not all, of the discussion about the war (and a bunch of politic threads in general) is focused on "should we." I simply thought there was room here for a different sort of question. |
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08 Feb 03 - 11:41 AM (#885536) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: GUEST Being influenced by another's thoughts is not the same thing as believeing our thoughts have the ability to influence events and actions of other people, Amos. When people claim, as has katlaughing, to believe that their prayers/meditations have the power to influence events, I see a belief that preaches a cause/effect relationship that I don't believe has the power to do what it's champions proclaim. Because I disagree with you and katlaughing doesn't make me dogmatic or my beliefs "ill considered". But your belief that it does, reveals the flawed sort of thinking of one who is convinced their belief system is the only right one. |
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08 Feb 03 - 11:55 AM (#885548) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: katlaughing I didn't say a thing about MY thoughts/meditations influencing ANYONE else. You've missed the point entirely. When one who believes in the Cosmic/Higher Power or whatever one wishes to call it, and that one gives up their will to that of the Cosmic then one is being open to the possibilities of a greater good for all involved coming about, without the bullshit of "little" wills of such men as the shrub. I would also remind you both that, metaphysically speaking, there is much more power behind those of good will/intent than those who are not. Having said that, though, a true believer will set aside their will, as I said above, and understand that "there is a purpose to everything under heaven." Not an easy thing to accept or understand when lives are destroyed. The best I can do is 1) be active in my oppositin to war and, 2) give thanks that peace prevails or something better for the highest good of ALL concerned and let it go, always keeping a positive vision in my mind and heart. If you want to deride, pick apart, chortle, jack off or whatever, feel free, just don't expect any more response from me. kat |
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08 Feb 03 - 12:18 PM (#885564) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: GUEST You are really thin skinned katlaughing, and much too prone to stomping off (momentarily) in a huff when someone challenges your beliefs. FWIW, I personally don't believe that science, philosophy, or religion is capable of repudiating the other. I'm not a post-modernist or a deconstructionist. If I had to align my current beliefs to any school of thought, it would be holisitic chaos theory. I believe that holistic chaos theory allows us to break the long-standing philosophical link between determinism and predictability, while appreciating that chaotic systems may one day be more accurately described by more complex theories, and that the current deterministic laws may then be seen as simple approximations to holistic chaos. But then again, I'm guessing most of you don't know what the fuck it is I'm talking about, too. |
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08 Feb 03 - 12:34 PM (#885574) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: *daylia* For anyone who wants a moment's comic relief, or to see shrub at his most alluring, try this link. Lotsa political laughs at this site too - click away if you care to! GUEST re "The reason is, humans can't control other humans with their thoughts. Thank god." Stranger things HAVE been known to happen, given 1. the expertise of the manipulator and 2. the vulnerability of the target. Don't think this has anything to do with 'God' though. daylia |
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08 Feb 03 - 12:38 PM (#885581) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Bobert Now, now, now. Hey, let's take a deep breath here. Arguing on how many angels can dance on the end of a pin is not helpfull here. Hey, we do what we can to reisit the war, be it pray, write letters, march, teach or whatever. Boss Hog controls by dividing his subjects not by allowing them to find common ground. He doing a good enough job with that so that we (people in resistence) don't need to lend him a helping hand. Come on. How about a tad more civility. Let's not forget the words of the Who when htey sang, "We will not get fooled again". It may be fun running at the front of the pack, but equally important to bring up the rear from time to time, GUEST. It's the only way that we can prevail. Different folks have different situations. Like I said, we do what we can. Peace begins here. Bobert |
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08 Feb 03 - 12:49 PM (#885590) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Bobert daylia: Thanks for the laughs. I'd recommend everyone stop on in there fir a little "time out"... Bobert |
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08 Feb 03 - 01:14 PM (#885612) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: JennyO In Australia, protests are happening all over, next weekend, but I fear by then it may have already been declared. Little Johnny Howard has already sent our troops, and has made it quite clear he will support the US, with or without the UN's approval. Unfortunately I think it passed the point of no return long ago. Bush always intended it to happen. It's already happening. They just haven't made it official yet. Other signs? our petrol prices are going up. I just came back from a wonderful night of folk music - many of the songs anti-war songs and peace songs. There were feelings of deja-vue, from the time of the Vietnam war. Sometimes it feels like there is nothing new - just the same old cycle going round again - only this time the big boys have much bigger toys! But I still have to have hope. I'm going to be a grandma in July! Jenny |
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08 Feb 03 - 02:10 PM (#885635) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: GUEST Bobert, no one is being uncivil. Disagreement isn't evil or bad, and neither is critical thinking. Everyone contributing this thread is articulate enough to defend their opinions when challenged. So stop trying to play den mother. We are all adults, even if some people choose not to behave like one when their opinions are contradicted or challenged. |
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08 Feb 03 - 02:49 PM (#885654) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: CarolC What is needed is the spiritual equivalent of an armor-piercing shell. That wouldn't work. Because it violates the principle of free will. Sometimes people need to experience what they don't want in order to learn what it is that they do want. All one can do, without violating the free will of another, is to show possibilities. And ask for the highest good of all concerned, as Katlaughing has mentioned. |
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08 Feb 03 - 03:04 PM (#885656) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: GUEST Well, it is no surprise that the Anglo Axis of Empire is falling in line behind the US. Britain and Australia are already on board no matter what--those ties are much stronger than their ties to the UN. Canada will fall into lock step too, once the UN puts the finishing touches on a resolution that will give Bush whatever he wants. Once the UN does the job for Bush of getting the ducks in a row so the shooting can start, New Zealand will be sure to follow too, even though Mr. Goff still claims "only contingencies may have been made, the position hasn't changed since last November" blah, blah, blah... |
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08 Feb 03 - 03:09 PM (#885658) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Peter T. Thanks, Jeri, for the gracious reply. CarolC -- a tip of the hat for deconstructing a military metaphor so deftly. yours, Peter T. |
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08 Feb 03 - 03:13 PM (#885660) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: GUEST I have a serious problem with "highest good". "Good for all concerned" works for me. I don't like the ranking of humanity along the high/low road of moral reasoning. It ends up playing into the hierarchy game, IMO. And yes, I am pedantically arguing semantics. |
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08 Feb 03 - 03:21 PM (#885662) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: GUEST Looking at this, I noticed another 'guest' said Hussein would go into exile. That is no longer an option. Bush # 2 announced the deployment of 'assassination teams' worldwide to put a stop to that. They need Hussein in place and dead, so the CIA / al Qeada attacks can begin around the world. Smallpox, dirty bombs, etc. All will be blamed on al Qeada because they are so upset over Hussein's death. BUT AL QEADA IS OPPOSED TO HUSSEIN. No, Hussein stiffed Bush # 1 and his BCCI on an 80 billion dollar loan years ago, and he's now about to pay, with interest. Cheney and the Bushes will make money off the armaments and oil interests, Patriot Act 2 will be put into effect as American cities are put under seige by the military, and the U.N. will have a nice new source of oil for the global war machine. |
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08 Feb 03 - 03:31 PM (#885670) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: bbc Yes & soon. After hearing President Bush's speech this past Thursday, I was left w/ the chilling conviction that it is just a matter of time & not that much. Since I have sons 18 & 21, it scares the heck out of me, regardless of the rightness or wrongness of the issues. I believe that we can probably win the initial war, whatever that means, but I think the more serious issue is the backlash that it almost certainly will cause. I don't think anyone knows how to deal w/ that. I think our world's in for a rough ride, if it survives. bbc in NY |
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08 Feb 03 - 03:46 PM (#885677) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: katlaughing Not much of a pendant when you don't even quote people correctly. I saw no challenge to my beliefs, just a supposedly anon-ee-mouse being tiresome, again, twisting words out of context then claiming the higher moral ground. Once again you've misinterpreted. "For the highest good OF all concerned" does not elevate humankind to any kind of exalted status. It encompasses everything. kat |
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08 Feb 03 - 05:06 PM (#885716) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Amos Aside from contradicting yourself, you are rude and self-important. If you follow your own espoused theory to its logical conclusion your form of intellectual materialism goes badly adrift. As for attributing ignorance about your preferred theories, or beliefs, to me or anyone else, why do you presume? But tell ya what -- don't bother with an answer. You really are a tiresome prig. A |
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08 Feb 03 - 05:08 PM (#885720) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Rapparee According to the "Weekly World News" (I just saw the front of the latest issue in the supermarket today, so this is current!) Saddam Hussein will step down and move to New Jersey, and the Mafia will kill Ossama Bin Ladin. I mean, you gotta trust the newspapers, right? Just like the Internet.... |
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08 Feb 03 - 05:11 PM (#885722) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: McGrath of Harlow Its a good idea when replying to a specific person to identify them in the post itself, especially if it's an angry post. Otherwise there's a risk of insulting the wrong person. But maybe it's better to keep those kind of repies to PMs. |
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08 Feb 03 - 05:32 PM (#885734) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: CarolC Thanks Peter T. "Good for all concerned" works for me You got to do what you feel comfortable with. I can't see any reason why "good for all concerned" would be any less effective than "highest good of all concerned". |
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08 Feb 03 - 05:35 PM (#885736) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: katlaughing Yes, Kevin, except that guests cannot get PM's. I suspect that is one reason they continue...no honest concern about working through anything. Sorry for the drift or any confusion about who I was addressing; my alst posting was directed to GUEST who claimed to be a pedant. |
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08 Feb 03 - 05:53 PM (#885743) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: GUEST Apparently I spoke too soon, claiming we were all adults. |
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08 Feb 03 - 07:17 PM (#885783) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: GUEST I've taken a tiny bit of encouragent from this where Hans Blix has been quoted as saying the latest talks with Iraq have been "very substantial". I'd like to think that the UN will be able to put some brakes on this thing but I'm still not overly optimistic. I still doubt that Bush understands the game he is playing. It is not as simple as get rid of Saddam and, without support America will, in the longer term, create more enemies than friends around the world. Even if this one reaches a peaceful conclusion, will he stop? I doubt it and find it very scarey. There are certainly evils in this world including Saddam, but I don't think the world is ready now, or ever will be for the GW Bush "visions of rightousness". In fact, I see Bush as much of a threat to world peace as I do the evils he wishes to fight. Jon |
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08 Feb 03 - 07:26 PM (#885787) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Allan Dennehy Do care but dont know. |
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08 Feb 03 - 09:57 PM (#885851) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: GUEST Guest polaitaly, Berlusconi is fighting with Tony Blair Please get it right, our (UK) beloved PM is "Toady Blair". |
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08 Feb 03 - 10:12 PM (#885853) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: GUEST,wdyat24 YES! |
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09 Feb 03 - 12:29 AM (#885903) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Neighmond it is certian. That damndable sneaking Bush is conniving any way he can to get us into another silly damnded "conflict" and it'll be just as bad a Viet Nam. The price of oil is through the blasted roof because of the "uncertanty" of the middle east situation. Guess who has their grubby shitehooks in the middle of that? Three guesses, me dears, and the first two don't count. He is "psyching" Americans up for a war, just like some good ministers will often "energize" the congregation by playing rousing gospel before the sermon. there is rattling of sabres. |
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09 Feb 03 - 04:04 PM (#886266) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: DougR GUEST (Feb. 8, 3:21 PM) You are so full of horse pucky. DougR |
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09 Feb 03 - 04:06 PM (#886271) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: McGrath of Harlow But between the GUEST whom you were probably referring to there'd been two more posts before yours, kat - one from what was likely a different GUEST, an one from bbc. Then came yours, and then an irritated one from Amos, which read as if it was directed at you... When a PM isn't possible, I think it's good practice to identify the one being addressed to avoid misunderstandings. It's a pain having to copy time and date so as to identify GUESTS, but that's appropriate enough. I can't help feeling that even if Blix came back to the UN and reported that he was now convinced that Iraq didn't have any Weapons of Mass Destruction left, and that Saddam had cooperated 100 per cent, Bush's only reaction would be to denounce him as a fool and a traitor, and push the button for war. |
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09 Feb 03 - 04:15 PM (#886279) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: robomatic YES There will be military action, prob'ly under the UN mantel. The hard part is predicting the shape of the 'peaceful' occupation. |
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09 Feb 03 - 04:17 PM (#886281) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: gnu Since many have not read the instructions, aka, the first post, and have deviated from same in such varied fashion, I would like to explain my previous post. Please forgive this lengthy, in depth analysis and discussion. Holy day ends at dark on 14 February. The moon is full on 16 February. (Okay, I might be off by a day, either way. Am I allowed a spread ?) |
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09 Feb 03 - 06:56 PM (#886399) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: katlaughing Duly noted, Kevin. For the record, I was addressing GUEST 08 Feb 03 - 03:13 PM |
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10 Feb 03 - 09:33 AM (#886741) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Wolfgang From recent German polls: Will there be this war? Yes, 85 % Are the proofs offered by US/UK convincing? Yes, 11% The best chance for no war, in my eyes is that both parties are playing the chicken game and Saddam bows out at the last possible moment. If I'd be forced to bet (I'd hate betting in such a situation), I'd bet for 'yes'. Wolfgang |
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10 Feb 03 - 05:56 PM (#887099) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: McGrath of Harlow Sounds a bit better today. At least it doesn't seem so likely there'll be a UN backed war, and if Tony Blair goes in with the USA in a unilateralist invasion, he'd better remember that, unlike Bush, he could be liable to be hauled up before an international court for starting an illegal war. |
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10 Feb 03 - 05:59 PM (#887102) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: McGrath of Harlow But I'd still say "Yes" to the question in the headline. |
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10 Feb 03 - 07:06 PM (#887149) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: GUEST The life of every Iraniam child, the life of every ordinary citizen, the life of every iranian soldier, the life of every American or european soldier is just as important as the life of Hussein, yet it seems that thousands of those lives are of no conseqence in this war. Surely it is possible to pin-point Saddam Hussein and eliminate him without having to sacrifice thousands. (How many palestininian and israeli lives have been sacrificed and yet the israelis have refused to eliminate Arafat despite several opportunities). Is there some "Fifth Protocol" among world leaders by which they have agreed not to kill each other? I think this war is inevitable because the manufacurers of weapons of mass destruction who make billions of dollars and pounds through government contracts (and who presumably hand out millions to the politicians for the contracts) have decided that the war is necessary to dispose of surplus stocks and to "field-test" their latest weapons. |
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10 Feb 03 - 07:32 PM (#887174) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: GUEST,Forum Lurker One of the reasons that assassination is uncommon is that it, for whatever reason, weakens a country's moral standing. It's considered cowardly and wrong to kill an opponent if you haven't cut a bloody swathe through their infantry first. The other, and possibly more important one, is that once you start the assassin game, everyone else wants to play, too. Makes it uncomfortable to be a world leader when they're dropping like flies. |
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10 Feb 03 - 08:04 PM (#887194) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: McGrath of Harlow No - the Iran war isn't scheduled for until after the Iraq one. |
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11 Feb 03 - 05:54 AM (#887474) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Teribus The internal crisis affecting NATO is a bit of a "storm in a tea-cup" (and yes that is the most common form of that expression in the UK). NATO has survived far worse rifts in the past (also brought about by the French). The interesting one was the proposal put forward jointly by France, Germany and backed by Russia. If you look at it in detail, it is not that much different to the conditions laid out in the US and UK's first or second draft resolution debated and rejected by the five permamnent members of the UNSC about six months ago. They (France & Germany) propose tripling the number of inspectors to around 350. Dr. Hans Blix has about 100 inspectors in Iraq at the moment and he has requested a further 12 and he is finding great difficulty in filling those slots. If 12 are proving hard to source where are France and Germany going to find 250. Sounds great to the assembled Press Corps as a sound byte, but not much in terms of substance. Much like, Tony Blair promising to erradicate the shortage of Doctors and Nurses in the UK NHS in the course of one Parliament - This of course ignores the reality that it takes six years to train a doctor and the best part of five to train a nurse. |
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11 Feb 03 - 05:58 AM (#887476) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: catspaw49 NATO? Doesn't that stand for Not Able To Organize? Spaw |
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11 Feb 03 - 09:21 AM (#887615) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Wolfgang I have to disagree with Peter T. I found this thread much more interesting than the 'should' thread started by John. There was nothing new in the 'should' thread for each single vote was predictable if you follow these discussions. One thing, however, I found interesting when comparing both threads: Those who say 'yes' to a war have a stronger belief that a peaceful solution will be found than those who say 'no'. Wolfgang |
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11 Feb 03 - 09:41 AM (#887629) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: Pseudolus It's not a matter of if, but when.....unfortunately yes....The only thing more certain than war when this thread started was that someone would question whether the thread should have been started or did it ask the right question....that, of course, has already happened...... Frank |
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11 Feb 03 - 09:38 PM (#888168) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: GUEST,madiah pllllllllleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase noooooooooooooooooooooooooootttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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12 Feb 03 - 02:02 AM (#888298) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: DougR GUEST Madiah: that is a language with which I am not familiar. Are you from New England perchance? DougR |
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14 Feb 03 - 06:44 AM (#890184) Subject: RE: BS: Will US GoToWar With Iraq?-CastVoteHere From: McGrath of Harlow "Those who say 'yes' to a war have a stronger belief that a peaceful solution will be found than those who say 'no'." Surely that is a reflection of the fact that people who believe that war is justified are still not warmongers - they don't want it and hope it won't actually happen. In a way for them saying the war will not in fact happen is a way of trying to avoid it happening. People who do not believe war is justified on the other hand, while obviously hoping it won't happen, feel a need to emphasise the risk, again as a way of trying to avoid it happening. The only people who actually want this war are people who aren't worried about the killing, and who see some advantage themselves if it happens. In my view, that primarily means "Al Qaeda" (which I use as a shorthand for those who actively share the aims of the September 11 people). How far it includes some elements in the US and UK Government and military-industrial complex, one can only guess, though I hope it's not generally true. In most cases I am sure it is more a belief that it is inevitable and necessary, and best got over quickly. However I am sure that applies to most people in all wars on both sides, including the World Wars. I doubt very much if there are many people posting on the Mudcat who actually want war, even though there have been a few posts which have come close to saying that. |