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09 Mar 03 - 01:30 PM (#905936) Subject: Real Info on Categories of Sea Songs From: katlaughing Just didn't want this to get lost in a sessions thread and would respectfully ask curmedgeon and any others to share their answers with the rest of us. Thank you! Welcome to the Mudcat, Aaron! Subject: RE: March Shanty Session at the Press Room (NH) From: GUEST,Tossi Aaron, folkcat in PA - PM Date: 08 Mar 03 - 09:42 PM HOpe your sing went superbly well and that someone will be able to help me. Looking for real info on categories of sea songs for my Phila Folk Song Society monthly column; Please confirm fill in or??? 1. Fo'c'sle --not work song, stories, adventures,lonesome,maybe chorus 2. Capstan Shanty.Anchor raising? slower, call and response? example?? 3. Long haul??Mainsail? Run and go? Example? 4. Short haul?????Example? Just titles will be fine. Can look up. Fifty years in folk music, have sung shanties but am too much of a landlubber to have accurate background info. HOpe you can help me.. |
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09 Mar 03 - 02:28 PM (#905970) Subject: RE: Real Info on Categories of Sea Songs From: Charley Noble Additional categories of sea shanties might include: 1. Pumping Shanties-longer songs much like capstan shanties 2. Loading and Unloading Cargo Shanties- "Fire Maringo", "Roll The Woodpile Down", and "Roll The Cotton Down." Probably your best available reference book would be Stan Hugell's Shanties of the Seven Seas which can be purchased from the museum store at Mystic SeaPort. Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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09 Mar 03 - 07:28 PM (#906131) Subject: RE: Real Info on Categories of Sea Songs From: Snuffy You gotta tell him what a capstan shanty is, before telling him a pumping shanty is much like a capstan shanty. |
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09 Mar 03 - 10:05 PM (#906200) Subject: RE: Real Info on Categories of Sea Songs From: katlaughing Here, here! Some of us are landlubbers don't forget! **BG** Thanks, guys! kat |
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09 Mar 03 - 10:08 PM (#906203) Subject: RE: Real Info on Categories of Sea Songs From: Ship'scat |
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09 Mar 03 - 10:11 PM (#906205) Subject: RE: Real Info on Categories of Sea Songs From: Ship'scat Ooooppps! Fired befored I'd aimed or was ready. Let's not forget bunt tossing shanties - a category of its very own. Bunts being sails tossed on top of yards rather than hung (or bent) below |
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09 Mar 03 - 10:44 PM (#906216) Subject: RE: Real Info on Categories of Sea Songs From: mdward Tossi - haven't seen your name in a long long time - I hung out with mike miller et al in the early 60's before leaving philly for warmer then colder climes - lost touch with everybody - do you have mike miller's email???? Michael Ward mdwardmalp@yahoo.com |
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09 Mar 03 - 10:47 PM (#906218) Subject: RE: Real Info on Categories of Sea Songs From: Peter Kasin A few examples: Pumps (or Capstan) Roll The Old Chariot Capstan: Paddy Lay Back Long Haul: The Blackball Line (two pulls on the line while singing the chorus). Short Haul: Sally Racket (one pull during the chorus) Bunting: Paddy Doyle's Boots The capstan is an iron winch used for raising anchor, or yards (which go across the masts) or anything else too heavy to lift by hand alone. Wooden bars, sometimes called handspikes, were inserted into the capstan and pushed, rotating the capstan. The chanteys mentioned can be found here, or in Stan hugill (which Charley mentioned). Hugill also has a great introduction explaining the deveopment and uses of chanteys. Happy hunting! The chantey world's your oyster. Much to discover. Best, Chanteyranger |
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10 Mar 03 - 08:30 AM (#906407) Subject: RE: Real Info on Categories of Sea Songs From: Charley Noble Then there are the ceremonial "shanties" such as "Dead Horse", only sung after being at sea for the first six weeks. The sailors were generally provided an "advance" equal to six weeks pay which was supposed to be used for outfitting. Sometimes they didn't even get the advance, it being ripped off by less than scrupulous shipping masters (i.e. crimps, shanghaiers, internet skammers). At any rate the sailors generally viewed the initial six weeks as working without pay, the equivalent of supporting a "dead horse". Anyway, a straw-filled canvas would represent the dead horse and being hauled up to the yardarm to this shanty and then dropped into the sea, followed by the shantyman who probably picked the wrong key! Cheerily, Charley Noble, who invariably backs the wrong "dead horse." |
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10 Mar 03 - 10:11 AM (#906483) Subject: RE: Real Info on Categories of Sea Songs From: GUEST,MIKEY MIKO Just to say ; erm erhum! aha. ckrckrahrahh (clearing throat)eeahharrgharhh. |
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10 Mar 03 - 10:31 AM (#906496) Subject: RE: Real Info on Categories of Sea Songs From: MMario Doerflinger says: "Simplest and probably most primitive in form are the so-called 'short haul" or "short-drag" shanties. they were used for hauling jobs that took, as one good shantyman put it, 'only a few pulls, but they had to be good ones!"" of the examples he gives - the one I know best is "Haul away Joe" regarding Halyard shanties: "Most halyard or "long-drag" shanties had four-line stanzas with alternating solo and chorus lines, but a study...shows that other forms were common." Doerflinger discusses Capstan, windlass and pump shanties as a single class: "Capstan shanties, as a class, were rather more elaborate than others,...some, however, had only the four line stanzas common in halyard shanties, while sometimes there was no short refrain, the shantyman singing two lines before each long chorus.Capstan shanties had a fine, marching swing, but they were sung at a moderate pace suited to the labor..." |
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10 Mar 03 - 10:41 AM (#906512) Subject: RE: Real Info on Categories of Sea Songs From: Schantieman Hugill's 'other' book, imaginatively entitled 'Sea Shanties' has lots of info on how the shanties were used, as well as several excellent photographs of a four masted barque at sea. He also has some good sketches of details of equipment aboard which complement the wonderful pencil drawings in 'Shanties from the Seven Seas'. 'Sea Shanties' is an octavo format book; mine is a paperback with a coloured drawing on the cover. The bunt is the middle part of the sail (as opposed to the head, foot luff and leach). The lower corners (tack/clew) had tacklines (or clewlines)attached which would haul them up to the yard as the first step in furling the sail. Buntlines were attached to the foot and hauled this up, leaving the bunt hanging - or blowing about - below the yard. This had to be neatly stowed on top of the yard and tied in with gaskets to stop the wind getting into the furled sail and blowing it out. The job was a hard one as they had to grab hold of the thick, often wet & cold, canvas with nothing to grab onto. And they were a hundred feet above the deck. And being chucked about all over the place as the ship rolled & pitched. And they were standing on a wobbly foot rope, hanging on with one hand and working with the other - if they were lucky. Rather them than me! Paddy Doyle is, I think, the only such shanty that Hugill gives. |
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10 Mar 03 - 10:51 AM (#906527) Subject: RE: Real Info on Categories of Sea Songs From: Schantieman Other capstan shanties were Rio Grande and General Taylor, to name two of the more commonly heard. G.T. was generally sung v. slowly - a dirge - as it was used for the slow heave of the anchor to the surface. Heaving the ship up to the anchor was comparatively light work and a faster shanty, like Rio Grande would be used. 'Leave 'er Johnny, Leave 'er' would be used at the capstan when warping the ship alongside the pier at the end of the yoyage. The Downton pump is another interesting one - 'South Australia' was the only(?) shanty with both heaving and hauling in the chorus. Big flywheels with handles on them - 3 or so men heaving on each and several more hauling on ropes slipped over the handles. All the above (mis)remembered from Hugill. He's yer man! Steve |
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10 Mar 03 - 01:26 PM (#906706) Subject: RE: Real Info on Categories of Sea Songs From: Charley Noble Then there are the modern day shanties for hauling away the tourist cars blocking the working waterfront, the best of these is based on Steve Goodman's "Lincoln Park Pirates" from the maritime City of Chicago. The way we sing the chorus for Portland, Maine, goes: To-me way, hey, haul 'em-away! The parking lot pirates are we! From the Hill to the Ferry, There's none that's so hairy, And we always collect our fee! To-me way, hey, haul 'em-away! We plunder the streets of your town! Be it Edsel or Chevy, There's no car too heavy, And no one can make us shut down! Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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10 Mar 03 - 01:39 PM (#906713) Subject: RE: Real Info on Categories of Sea Songs From: Peter Kasin Hugill has Leave Her, Johnny as a pumping chantey, used at the end of the voyage, when in port. Thus, there are lines such as "Leave her Johnny, we can pump no more. It's time we wuz upon dry shore." Chanteyranger |
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10 Mar 03 - 02:22 PM (#906731) Subject: RE: Real Info on Categories of Sea Songs From: SeanM Another good way to get the feel for the shanty is to find a "traditional" rendition (done at pace). The generally slower tempo than modern entertainment versions, the measured beat, the rests involved - all really help to emphasize the nature of the work they were meant for. Capstan shanties tend to have a steady beat throughout, without lenghty rests. Long haul shanties (Paddy Doyle's Boots is a great example of a hauling shanty in general) tend towards heavy line-by-line call and response, with rests built in. Foc'sle tend to sound more "entertaining" (as they should, being generally for the crew's entertainment). At the heart of it, it does really help to at least have a slight amount of knowledge about sailing ships from the Golden Age. Knowing every detail isn't as needed, but knowing what the capstan is, the foc'sle, the quarterdeck, that sort of thing - those will go a long way towards helping decipher what the shanty is likely for. M |