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29 May 03 - 10:53 PM (#961624) Subject: BS: No whites need apply From: GUEST,one unemployed Canadian It seems that white people need not apply to certain high paying jobs in the Canadian government bureaucracy. Here's the article from the Globe & Mail. This is PC gone amuck. The principal of Weberian bureaucracy is that jobs and promotions are awarded through merit. The color of one's skin should not matter. |
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29 May 03 - 11:16 PM (#961633) Subject: RE: BS: No whites need apply From: GUEST,Q The vismin policy also means that they can be parachuted into a position sought by employees already in communications positions but desiring to advance. This is a sure way to cause long-standing resentment. |
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29 May 03 - 11:18 PM (#961634) Subject: RE: BS: No whites need apply From: Little Hawk Ah, well, nothing new about that. The human race lurches from treating blacks and Native Americans as subhumans to treating whites as non-humans in reaction to the past. Centuries of Christian prejudice and cruelty against non-Christians has led to virulent counter-prejudice against Christians (as if all Christians were exactly the same, which they are NOT) by people in newer and "cooler" religions. Prejudice, prejudice, prejudice. It's as common as grass. What is really sad is to see it enshrined in law and governmental policy, and pandered to by a largely controlled press and media. Meanwhile, most blacks and Native Americans are still getting ripped off anyway, while a few who are smart enough to play the game successfully are getting rich. - LH |
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30 May 03 - 12:06 AM (#961641) Subject: RE: BS: No whites need apply From: DonMeixner My, such thoughts from either of you could be defined as racist by either of you. When in fact you are both stating facts. What puzzles me is why I am so puzzled by this thread. Don " Really, my real name." Meixner |
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30 May 03 - 12:41 AM (#961652) Subject: RE: BS: No whites need apply From: GUEST,Q Don, I had second thoughts about posting, for the very reason you cite. |
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30 May 03 - 03:10 AM (#961675) Subject: RE: BS: No whites need apply From: C-flat An Asian friend of mine was discreetly asked to re-apply for a job he had recently failed to win at interview. It was all done on a nod and a wink, but he already knew the job was his because the Senior police officer who suggested he re-apply quite openly admitted that they needed more coloured faces on the force to meet their targets. I'm happy for my friend, he's a good, honest guy (something the police can't have too much of), but even he would admit that he wasn't the best candidate on the day, just the guy with the darkest skin! I find this kind of positive discrimination almost as worrying as the old kind and I think my friend will have a hard time integrating in a culture that needs to resort to this method of recruitment to show that it is not racist. |
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30 May 03 - 04:47 AM (#961698) Subject: RE: BS: No whites need apply From: Liz the Squeak I've been stiffed from a job using the same system. A colleague applied for and was interviewed for a higher grade job in a redeployment programme. She was turned down due to a dreadful interview, no relevant experience and an appalling attendance record, so it was re-advertised the following month at the next stage, where I could, and did apply for it. I was given an interview, and told that day that it had gone well and my experience was relevant. The day after my interview we were all informed that the colleague had been appointed that morning, despite her failing to meet the criteria. I complained and got a reply stating that the job had 'been advertised erroneously' and that I 'was not eligble to apply'. The reason? She'd claimed the (mixed race) interview panel were racially discriminatory, she'd not got the job because she is Asian. I could not use the same argument to uphold my complaint because I am white. To avoid any whiff of UnPC behaviour, they employed her. Her lack of experience and unsuitablility for the job (qualities highlighted at her interview) soon showed, the department was run into the ground and she was replaced within 6 months. I was not offered another interview because I was seen as a trouble maker, having complained the first time. When a local government as an employer, takes on people because they fit into certain 'bonus groups', rather than on ability to actually do the job, is it any wonder our services start to fall apart? And the Government want this to happen. They want to be seen as politically correct so there are grants and paybacks to encourage this practice. Black women are known as "twofers", two minority groups represented for the price of one. Employ a black, disabled, lesbian single parent and you score full marks. I try very hard not to discriminate - I have friends who are all colours, religions and genders, but when you get caught in the negative side, it's very hard not to react strongly. To be employed just because I'm one colour is quite demeaning, to be not employed because I'm the WRONG colour is even worse. Keep your heart up though, there ARE people out there who employ folk on their abilities - just don't go looking in local government! LTS |
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30 May 03 - 05:04 AM (#961706) Subject: RE: BS: No whites need apply From: gnu I lost out on four jobs because of this type of policy while I worked at Transport Canada (federal government). The last was filled by a female under a program that gave an "extra" person-year to any unit who hired a female in a non-traditional area of employment. Since she was a civil engineer and we had none in our unit, she got the position of junior design engineer, newly graduated with no experience - not even summer employment. I took my six years in the field section and my master's degree and resigned. She's still there, earning a whopping salary... and I'm still pissed about it. |
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30 May 03 - 05:50 AM (#961730) Subject: RE: BS: No whites need apply From: Doug_Remley Whoa, there, Hawk. None of my forebears (is that the right word?) was in the crusades or had slaves, either. I don't knoe what to add without being inflammatory. |
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30 May 03 - 09:43 AM (#961841) Subject: RE: BS: No whites need apply From: Kim C Christians haven't just been nasty to non-Christians, they've also been nasty to each other! The treatment of the Anabaptists in the 1700s is a good example - they didn't believe in baptizing babies and were persecuted for it by sects who DID believe in baptizing babies. Anyhow... what if all job interviews were conducted with walls, a microphone, and a voice changer between interviewer and interviewee? Then the interviewer wouldn't know if he/she was talking to male or female, black or white, and would have to hire a person based solely on merit. |
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30 May 03 - 10:44 AM (#961896) Subject: RE: BS: No whites need apply From: GUEST Political correctness is being used to balkanize. Divide and conquer. Discrimination is wrong, so just don't do it. DON'T find new ways to discriminate, as the govt is encouraging people to do. Just more old polarization to keep working people at each others' throats and distracted from the abuses of govt. |
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30 May 03 - 10:49 AM (#961901) Subject: RE: BS: No whites need apply From: DonMeixner I think Vulcanize is the correct term but I like Balkanize too. It has a ring of rightness to it. Great new word usage which some puristas will hate. I love this language. Don |
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30 May 03 - 12:50 PM (#961991) Subject: RE: BS: No whites need apply From: GUEST, heric Don you joker. You know that Vulcanization refers to throwing people into volcanoes for racial impurities, and had never been practiced or permitted in Canada. |
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30 May 03 - 12:55 PM (#961995) Subject: RE: BS: No whites need apply From: GUEST, heric Have you ever thought of improving the keyboard layout, so that letters such as "s" and "d" would not be right next to each other? When reading certain mudcatters, I sometimes study the keyboard layout as a means to decipher what they meant to sat. |
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30 May 03 - 01:21 PM (#962012) Subject: RE: BS: No whites need apply From: Kim C "Balkanize" makes perfect sense to me: splitting up nations and all that. |
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30 May 03 - 01:40 PM (#962035) Subject: RE: BS: No whites need apply From: DougR PC run amok. DougR |
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30 May 03 - 03:14 PM (#962101) Subject: RE: BS: No whites need apply From: GUEST,Q Balkanize appeared in print in the English language in 1920. I am afraid that vulcanize is so closely associated with the rubber process in making tires, etc., that it won't fly in this regard. I may be hopelessly out of date, but I still believe that requirements for a job should be knowledge of the subject and ability to perform the task. |
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30 May 03 - 03:20 PM (#962106) Subject: RE: BS: No whites need apply From: GUEST,Claymore heric, God bless you lad, you made my day... As for the topic, many years ago I took a Police Lt's exam and scored an 88, which was twenty points higher than my nearest competitor (I had a BS in Law Enforcement, and was three credits shy of a Masters in Judicial Administration). Further down at 43, was the first of three black Sgts who also took the exam. The Sheriff gave interviews to me and the black Sgt, stating that he was the best of the black applicants and I was the best of the whites, then gave the job to the black officer. I started a lawsuit against the Sheriff who was a Democrat, but gave all the information, including the exam, the scores, and the qualifications of each applicant to an individual who was running against the Sheriff. This information was published, the Sheriff was defeated, and I was a Lt. three days after the election. Then an interesting thing happened. The new Sheriff did not want to demote the black officer and put him on the road with me. But none of the deputies would report to him, in one case driving a half an hour to turn in some reports to me instead of him. And he would never look me in the eye. After some discussions with the new Sheriff, he was put in charge of the Jail, where he worked for three years and did a good job. When he came out on the road after the three years, the men accepted him immediately. Respect must be earned. |
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30 May 03 - 04:19 PM (#962137) Subject: RE: BS: No whites need apply From: Little Hawk Good post, Claymore. Doug Remley...well, I wasn't necessarily referring specifically to your forbears. :-) Having been decidedly pro-American Indian all my life, and yet having been exposed to extraordinary prejudice on the part of some Native Americans toward whites, I tend to be watchful for hypocrisy and prejudice in all groups and I do not excuse "visible minorities" when they practice it. There's just one human race out there as far as I'm concerned, and it is blessed by great variety. People should be hired according to ability and good attitude, period. And GUEST is right, as usual. It's "divide and conquer" tactics by the ruling elite to split people up along these bogus racial and cultural and religious issues...and it usually works all too well. The political party system works on exactly the same principle. - LH |
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31 May 03 - 12:14 AM (#962371) Subject: RE: BS: No whites need apply From: DonMeixner Guest,Q, Your point...? |
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31 May 03 - 08:51 AM (#962460) Subject: RE: BS: No whites need apply From: Bobert It's tough when a society looks at itself, sees that it is not fully engaging its citizenry and has to courage to try to level the playing field. Unfortunately, it is not yet leveled as white men still tend to get the breaks when one looks at the big picture. Now I ain't wild about Affirmative Action but I'll take it over the alternative. Bobert |
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31 May 03 - 09:55 AM (#962481) Subject: RE: BS: No whites need apply From: Tam the bam fraeSaltcoatsScotland Here in Scotland, and also in Ireland (North and South), Wales and Cornwall, there are some English treat the natives of these places as second class people, and I tihnk that's wrong. For example they're people on the Television who still say and now we'll go to the 'regions' when they're talking about Scotland, Ireland or Wales, and not reliazing that 'regions' are really countries, or even provances as well. And then they wonder why the Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish don't like them so much. |
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31 May 03 - 11:37 AM (#962525) Subject: RE: BS: No whites need apply From: Metchosin So will I Bobert. When I worked for the Feds, for a few years I was payed less than my male counterparts, who I supervised, on the justification that "males" needed more money, as they had families to support. Fortunately, in the Technical category, the situation was eventually remedied, although it took many more years for the Feds to right it in other areas of the Public Service. I believe the Feds are still fighting rulings that went against them, regarding female clerical staff. And I can assure you that, for some odd reason, despite the very large Asian/Indo-Canadian population, here on the westcoast of Canada, both federally and provincially, there were relatively few hired from those ethnic groups, although we did have a few "token" first nations people, and jeez, if you could speak French you were a shoo-in. People with military service, (unlike the US and Britain, not wartime and predominantly "white male") were also given first priority regarding hiring, no matter how little, their previous experience was relevant to the position on offer. Interesting, nobody bitched at that bit of affimative action. |
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31 May 03 - 02:48 PM (#962595) Subject: RE: BS: No whites need apply From: Liz the Squeak Funny how it's always the blokes that need the extra money to support a family.... What about the single blokes, those with no dependants, those who've not got any family? What's the argument for paying THEM more? One job, one wage... one day! LTS |