BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back

11 Sep 03 - 12:22 AM (#1016682)
Subject: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: catspaw49

For those of us around here back then, Mudcat provided a place to talk through the helpless feeling and the angst we all felt. For some it was a main portal of news and surprisingly we were pretty good at reporting the events of those tragic days.

I spent awhile this evening reading those threads and remembered well how as I watched the news I immediately posted here and the thing really snowballed. It makes for interesting reading now with the perpsective of time and the things that have happened since. Many of our worst fears were realized and many were not. It all started here with a thread titled:

World Trade Center-Unreal Disaster

Threads are linked so you can read as many or as few as you wish and I know some will prefer none at all. Just thought it was worth a thread to remember.........

Spaw

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11 Sep 03 - 02:27 AM (#1016725)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: Metchosin

exhilaration?!!!....something as obscene as that gave you a stiff dick?!!!! My you are a sick puppy......

Only posted once to all those threads and said everything I had to say about it and not very much since then, as my worst fear, that calm heads would not prevail, became reality.

Took a lot of the fun out of Mudcat for me, for it really seemed to bring home that I am a foreigner.

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11 Sep 03 - 02:35 AM (#1016727)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: Metchosin

are you sure you are posting in the correct language Gargoyle? Sounds like something out of the mouth of someone from the Taliban. Opposite side of the same coin possibly?

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11 Sep 03 - 07:24 AM (#1016823)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: Barry Finn

gargoyle, I guess for some tragedy brings out the best & fairest of the worst. Would you please tell the loved ones of the lost how there loss was worth their grief. Please shoot your self the next time you feel the need to make a statement. Barry

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11 Sep 03 - 08:16 AM (#1016845)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: Peter T.

I am sorry to say that on 9-11 people in foreign countries like mine could honestly believe that we were Americans for that day -- not just because some of my countrymen died in the attacks -- that we were horror struck, and supportive towards America. We had thousands of people come to our nation's capital to mourn for the lost. My country has troops in Afghanistan. George Bush wantonly destroyed all that with his crassness, rudeness, and lying, and two years later, we are deeply suspicious of American actions. It is hard to believe that all of that support, true, heartfelt was lost, but it was.

yours,

Peter T.

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11 Sep 03 - 08:47 AM (#1016859)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: Jeri

I'll go back an re-read. Peter, yeah - for a week or two, most of the world didn't seem to despise Americans. Fact is, there was a whole chain of events leading up to Sept 11th. The chain leading away from it could have been different. The connections many people felt immediately after the event could have taken root instead of the political opportunism and the nurturing of anger and hatred needed to support war.

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11 Sep 03 - 10:16 AM (#1016932)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: wysiwyg

I found today that a measure of grief I apparently could not fully process two years ago is closer to the surface now and easier to delve into. I didn't expect that. I'm finding I have to make a little more space for it than my day's plan had originally included. This also means lending to support to others at the same place, as the day unfolds, especially in the church class Greg and will teach tonight. I'm surprised to find that a small part of me thought I would actually be "done" with all this now-- as if anyone could be. That's a humbling thing to comtemplate.

~Susan

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11 Sep 03 - 10:30 AM (#1016944)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: Peg

I recently received an email with a list detailing the legacy of President Bush's deeds so far. One of them is very striking: in the wake of the   9-11 attacks, the USA was in a position of being one of the most loved and respected and mourned-for countries in history. So many Americans and citizens of other countries perished in this attack on this most international of our world's cities.

In the two years that have followed, the actions of the current administration have made us one of the most feared and hated and disrepected countries in history. Quite a feat for a convicted drunk driver, military deserter and former coke addict. Perhaps he felt that the worldwide sympathy directed towards us would allow him and his administration to get away with all this.

Many of us will never forget the grief and horror of this event. Let us hope our country can once again become respected among other nations.

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11 Sep 03 - 10:41 AM (#1016950)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: GUEST,John Hardly

We were hated before the event. We're hated now. We were given a brief reprieve because we "got ours". Not much has changed except that we seem to have renewed our well-developed but dormant sense of self-loathing.

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11 Sep 03 - 10:49 AM (#1016955)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: GUEST,pdq

The self-loathing has a never been dormant on Mudcat. Sad, ain't it.

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11 Sep 03 - 11:03 AM (#1016965)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: akenaton

Dont all get so sensitive...I think you all know what Gargoyle meant by his post,(the end of American isolationism and the need to take a more pro active role in running the world)...We are all supposed to be grown ups on this forum,and although I personaly would not have used Gargoyles language or even agreed with his ideas,we should all listen when there is a valid point being made..
Some times i think theres a load of old wifies on this forum.
    Ake..

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11 Sep 03 - 01:08 PM (#1017041)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: DougR

Geeze. Let's get this straight now. The Terrorists hit the WTC killing 3,000 people, and it's all George Bush's fault?

Who, may I ask, is leading the fight against terrorism? George Bush and Tony Blair that's who!

Many Europeons don't like the United States. That's news? Most of those that don't never did, and never will. Who cares what they think?

As to Garg, seems to me he has a right to express himself any way he chooses. To attack him because you do not agree with him is unfair, IMO of course.

DougR

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11 Sep 03 - 01:27 PM (#1017061)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: GUEST,Casual Observer

"Quite a feat for a convicted drunk driver, military deserter and former coke addict."

Hmm. What about the pot-smoking draft dodger who preceded him?

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11 Sep 03 - 01:33 PM (#1017065)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: katlaughing

Hmmm, Spaw, some things just never change, do they? It was a nice thought, darlin' thanks for the links.

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11 Sep 03 - 01:41 PM (#1017069)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: Forum Lurker

DougR- No one has blamed George Bush for the attacks that I saw, only decried his abysmal handling. His "leading the fight against terrorism" has resulted in many deaths, weakened our foreign relations and civil rights, and does not appear to have substantially weakened terrorism, judging by recent events in Iraq.

While it's true that some Europeans dislike us for being American, many of them have good cause to distrust our motives as a nation. On the other hand, I've never heard an argument any more rational than "Who cares what they think?" to explain why Americans hold Europe in equal contempt.

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11 Sep 03 - 01:52 PM (#1017073)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: Bobert

Well said, Peg. The War on Terrorism has given way to a right wing agenda written up way back in 1992 by Richard Pearle and Paul Wolfowitz.

And yes, the US as squandered an opportunity here and the current policies of the Bush administration will insure many more generations of terrorists.

Beatin' up on folks has never solved anything in the long run and in this ever inter-dependent sphere that we all live upon, is harmful to us all...

A time for teaching peace is long overdue.

The US needs to set a better example, both domesticly and abroad in respecting human rights...

That should have been the lesson that came from such a tragic day two years ago...

Peace

Bobert

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11 Sep 03 - 01:57 PM (#1017076)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: Nerd

On 9-11-2001 I was at a meeting of regional folklorists in my state. I didn't hear about what was going on until I was en route. We all sat and commiserated....

As a native New Yorker, I was concerned for my parents, who both live in the city, but luckily no-one close to me was killed.

Read the posts, DougR. Nobody said 9-11 was George Bush's fault (unless I missed one; always possible). They said what has followed AFTER was Bush's fault. Looks like Garg is blaming some specific individual (Clinton? I can't tell, but a Liberal...) I agree that Gargoyle has the right to say what he said, but we also have the right to say he's a jerk for saying it!

Leading the fight against Terrorism? I don't see Bush or Blair in Afghanistan, and Iraq, as we all know by now, had no WMDs and no connection to Al Qaeda. Of course, now terrorists are flocking there. Good on ya, Bush and Blair!

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11 Sep 03 - 02:29 PM (#1017088)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: PeteBoom

"No political party can or ought to exist when one of its cornerstones is opposition to freedom of thought." U. S. Grant

(in "The Personal Memoirs of Ulysses S. Grant")

I'm still waiting for someone to provide the "proof" that Iraq had the slightest thing to do with the events 2 years ago. A measured response building on the support of the world to locate and identify specific targets, I believe, would have done wonders. Instead, we got lines from bad B-grade westerns and unilateral action that has spread resources thin and has devolved into hit-and-run raids.

Anyone who has studied history over the last 300 years can tell you that when nation-states wage war against an idea, the result is what we are seeing in Iraq. Terrorists and bandits... in the manner of Francis Marion, George Washington, Tom Barry, Mao Tse-Tung, Ho Chi Minh...

Two years ago, I was called a blood-thirsty wrong-minded individual in the WTC attack threads here for listing response options (which I still believe were correct). Since then I've been called a traitor and supporter of Bin Laden and Saddam by some of the more "conservative" people around me (this being the first thread of a political nature I've responded to here in quite some time).

We've overthrown 2 governments and replaced them with only guarded success.

I wonder who are the real traitors to the ideals that the US as a nation represents. Why is it that so many people draw a distinction between the people of the US and its government policies? Which one is out of step?

Most Americans will never understand. Many of those that do get branded as anti-American.

Maybe I should send a copy of ol' U.S. Grant's memoirs to the folks in Washington and in the right-wing media who are fanning the flames of hate and xenophobia.

God bless the USA - we need all the help we can get.

Pete

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11 Sep 03 - 02:36 PM (#1017092)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: Greg F.

God help the USA is more like it.

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11 Sep 03 - 03:25 PM (#1017110)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: akenaton

Nerd...Gargoyle has the right to say what he likes,but he was correct that September 11th was a huge wake-up to America..Not the politicians, with their crocodile tears,but the capitalists who began to see how vulnerable their economic system really is.How lack of confidence could bring it all crashing down,or losing control of the marketing of oil could starv it to death They are the people who wake up in a cold sweat over 9-11.
Regarding the WTC death ,each one was a personal tragedy for the families,but pale into insignificance when compared to the millions of children rotting of AIDS in Africa,or slowly melting like snow from hunger in a world bursting with food.We need to look deep into ourselves for a real answer,
politics will never provide it.
On a personal level. We on the left need to be shaken out of our cosy sactimony by people like Gargoyle,we often lapse into self righeousness,with no good reason for it...Ake

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11 Sep 03 - 03:40 PM (#1017122)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: LilyFestre

I sat in a classroom of 10 year olds today and listened to countless stories of how 9-11 effected their young lives. The entire school held a moment of silence for those who lost their lives, for the people who lost loved ones....for everyone and anyone whose life was touched.

The look in their eyes, the muffled cries, the tears, the silence......so overwhelming.....I can't even begin to describe it.

Forget the politics of it all.....look around....look at we are doing to our world and those who live in it...............

Michelle

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11 Sep 03 - 03:54 PM (#1017132)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: Don Firth

I'm with Peg.

When I think of what this country could do and could be compared to what it has become, I want to weep.

Don Firth

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11 Sep 03 - 04:03 PM (#1017139)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: Jerry Rasmussen

I didn't have Mudcat two years ago, and I wish that I had. My wife and I were just getting ready to leave the house when we got a phone call about the strike, and turned on our tv. We could only watch for a couple of minutes, because my gospel quartet was doing a program at noon. Driving down, we heard the description of the first tower going down. One of my sons worked in that area of New York, and one of my Brother-in-law's daughters did, too. We were overcome with grief and anxiety, and yet when we got to the Senior Center, we had a program to do for a room full of stunned Seniors. I have no idea if anyone was better off, or worse off, for hearing us. We were as stunned as everyone else. But we knew that we had to go on.

Pleasure in getting our come-uppance? I will never take pleasure in killing, whether we're doing it, or someone is doing it to us. Nothing has been accomplished on either side except more hatred, fear and anger. Life has just become more dangerous.

Jerry

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11 Sep 03 - 04:17 PM (#1017152)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: GUEST,heric

I was very new to mudcat at the time, and the post spaw references was the first notice I received of the incident, causing me to turn on the television. I would have missed it otherwise. My rock solid marriage was collapsing dramatically at exactly the same time, so that I visualize one when I think of the other, now. But I can't imagine living, feeling, breathing that event, as Larry did.

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11 Sep 03 - 04:32 PM (#1017158)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: Raptor

Who here believes that George bush has handled this well?

Have the guilty been caught?

Does anyone feel better?

Raptor

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11 Sep 03 - 05:54 PM (#1017196)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: Mudlark

It was a tragedy then, and the way the US government has handled it remains a tragedy. Nothing learned from this terrible loss, instead it has been used cynically to foster agendas already in place, with the President saying "Bring 'em on" to the terrorists, and "challenging" UN nations to offer help he held in such low regard before this mess in Iraq started. I, too, weep for what we have become.

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11 Sep 03 - 07:47 PM (#1017242)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: michaelr

I would urge anyone who still believes that Bush & Co had nothing to do with and/or no foreknowledge of the 9-11 attacks to peruse the following sites:

www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/JohnJudge/#911

www.globalresearch.ca//by-topic/sept11

The US-Pakistan-Bin Laden money connection and the unanswered questions about why there was no military response that morning are particularly troubling.

We haven't been told nearly all there is to know.

Cheers,
Michael

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11 Sep 03 - 07:57 PM (#1017248)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: Bobert

Michael:

Yeah, I wonder why there is so much Bin Laden money in Bush the Senior's bank accounts?

And I also wonder why the only airliners flyin'over the US the day after 9-11 were Saudi, pickin' up Bin Laden family memebers.

Hmmmmmmm, Part 6783....

This is beginning to look a lot like Watergate to me with Bush and his croonies trying to cover up. Only difference now is that Bush's folks own the media. But there's somethin about the truth and when enough folks have lost their jobs becuase of Bush's lousy domestci policies, they'll be ripe fir hearin' "the rest of the story"....

Bobert

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11 Sep 03 - 08:03 PM (#1017253)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: McGrath of Harlow

I'm hoping that the creature who posted as "GUEST,.gargargoyle" wasn't in fact gargoyle, but some troll who crawled onto the site. If so, will the real gargoyle confirm this. True enough, the real gargoyle can be pretty strange at times, but that was way over the top. And he does normally spell his name right.

And Doug "As to Garg, seems to me he has a right to express himself any way he chooses. To attack him because you do not agree with him is unfair" Surely, according to your logic, the second sentence there is inconsistant with the first. If Garg (or whoever) "has a right to express himself any way he chooses", so also do other people when they express disgust at the post in question.

The scary thing is that there are in fact people who do think that the deaths on September 11th was a fair price to pay for putting the world on a new set of tracks towards some imagined destination. Clearly Al Qaida supporters think that way. But evidently it isn't just people on that side who see it in those terms. In the end, I can't see much difference between the two varieties.

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11 Sep 03 - 08:15 PM (#1017258)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: Rich(bodhránai gan ciall)

I remember going through my day at work half-numb, half-angry, not sure if I was more scared of what was happening to us or what we were going to do to others. There was a lot of redneck kill-em-all-let-God-sort-em-out talk going around work. Logging into mudcat when I got home was the first bit of relief for the day. Even with much flaming, trolling, and petty arguments over real or imagined breaches of netiquette, The forum was one place I could hope to find some intelligent and compassionate conversation over troubles that seemed too unreal to fathom and too real to wake up from.

God bless the folks that were here then (and now) for making such a horrible time just a little bit more bearable

Rich

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12 Sep 03 - 07:00 AM (#1017464)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: Raptor

Nice Rich I'll second that emotion!

Raptor

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12 Sep 03 - 10:02 AM (#1017590)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: GUEST,Casual Observer

I don't think there would have been an un-tragic way to handle such a situation. War isn't necessarily the best option, but neither is sitting around playing tiddly-winks. Doing nothing would have been just as tragic.

Bobert, how long have you known the Bush family? You sound like a very close personal friend.

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12 Sep 03 - 01:37 PM (#1017614)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: McGrath of Harlow

Those were not the only alternatives. More effort in finding out the perpetrators and dealing with them might have been a good idea, rather than exploiting the situation, as an opportuinity to carry out a preconceived game plan.

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12 Sep 03 - 01:42 PM (#1017618)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: katlaughing

Warning, thread drift and totally not serious!








Anyone else make the leap from gargargoyle to gar-gar binks ala Star Wars?

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12 Sep 03 - 01:43 PM (#1017622)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: Amos

McGrath:

If you go back over the first few days' osts after the attack you will find the point made repeatedly: the accurate address you recommend would only be possible with the correct intelligence. The sort of intelligence the United States does not respect know how to acquire.

We are not qualified to "lead" or even fight the war on terrorism because it so different from what we think of as war. Anyway, I think this point is made completely in the original 9-11 thread/s.

A

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12 Sep 03 - 02:26 PM (#1017660)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: DougR

It will come as no surprise to anyone here that I believe George Bush is doing a good job, as is Tony Blair. Thank God Clinton, nor anyone else who espouses the cause of the Left, was not in the driver's seat that day. Another "pill" factory would likely have bit the dust in some far off country.

As to the critics who are not satisfied that Iraq was not a hot bed of terrorist activity, wait and see. The same goes for WMDs.

You are only hearing and reading reports of the problem areas in Iraq. That's the maintream press for you. You rarely hear or read any of the good things that have taken place as a result of Saddam's downfall.

Most of you folks wouldn't be satisfied if Bush delivered both Saddam and Osama bin Laden to you on a silver platter. If evidence linked Saddam's regime to the 9/11 event, you wouldn't believe it. Such evidence would have been "planted" you'd say.

Rave on I say!

DougR

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12 Sep 03 - 02:57 PM (#1017692)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: McGrath of Harlow

I think it'd be better if this thread was more geared towards the actual memories and experience of that day two years ago, where most of us I think have very much in common (leaving aside the psychopathic contribution in which the events apparently evoked a response of "exhileration").

But I feel I want to respond to that last post of Doug's - so I'll do it on another thread - BS: War on terror called 'bogus'

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12 Sep 03 - 07:30 PM (#1017893)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: michaelr

Doug, have you looked at the links I posted?

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12 Sep 03 - 09:00 PM (#1017925)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: LadyJean

My mother and I were in England in 1986. I learned three things almost immediately, mushrooms for breakfast are a good thing, cream teas are better, and the Brits hate Americans. I spent three weeks hearing oh so charming English people with oh so charming English accents say oh so ill mannered things about my country, myself and my mother. Not to mention deliberately bad service in stores and restaurants.
On September 11, I figured they were cheering in pubs from Cornwall to Yorkshire. Reading the 9/11 thread, I find I figured wrong.

I spent September 11 working in Squirrel Hill, singing "How Firm a Foundation", praying for every woman I know who has a son or husband of military age, and looking down Forbes Avenue, to see if the Jewish Community Center was safe. I was convinced George W. spent the day worshipping the porcelain god. Now I'm working to send the son of a Bush back to Texas. (They've closed Devil's Island, so it'll have to be Texas.)

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12 Sep 03 - 10:13 PM (#1017945)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: catspaw49

Well, a few people got the idea but the way this thread went is indicative of what the day did to many of us. It was offered here as an introspective and came out the other side as a division.

Sorry

Spaw

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12 Sep 03 - 10:23 PM (#1017952)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: Bobert

Yo Spawzer,

Ya can't expect folks to just do this "rememberance" thing. When 9-11 occured we all knew that things were changed forever in the US, Even if you didn't live here, stuff was gonna be very different...

So it's not incomphrensible that folks would be carrying lots of emotions and thoughts with 'em since that day...

Hey, part of dealin' with stuff is just talkin' it out of ourselves and that's what's been going on here...

No need to feel "sorry"...

Bobert

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13 Sep 03 - 05:15 PM (#1018293)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: Tweed

Spaw you f**king bastard, come here and allow me to slap the sh*t right out of you! Being SPAW means not ever having to say yore sorry. How the hell did you manage to forget that...dammit...I am stunned more senseless than usual....


Tweed

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13 Sep 03 - 06:38 PM (#1018334)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: katlaughing

Ditto, but I am also stunned to see TWEED is back! Heya!

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13 Sep 03 - 06:40 PM (#1018337)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: McGrath of Harlow

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13 Sep 03 - 07:09 PM (#1018348)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: Tweed

Heya backatcha Kat my darlin'. Pore McGrath is apparently speechless I reckon, he loves me so. ;~)
Enough of 9-11, let us move forward until next year. We are all victims, some more victimized than others, but we must not dwell on these matters for long lest we lose our zeal. It is not healthy for us to do so, despite whatebver the psychopedantiae tell us.

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14 Sep 03 - 07:38 PM (#1018908)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: Peter K (Fionn)

On the day itself, I went pretty early to Mudcat, curious to know the stateside reaction, and on the whole (with significant, honourable exceptions) it made dismal reading. Turning to present-day posts, I find it quite beyond comprehension that DougR can be sanguine about the way things have been handled since then. And I take his view seriously because I fear he is giving voice to a reaction shared by many millions of Americans.

Afterlurking for an hour or two, I posted my own first thoughts around 1.30pm (Cat time), and two years on, I don't think I'd change a word. Of course, consistency for its own sake is not necessarily a virtue, and I'm curious about the extent to which other Mudcatters changed their views, if at all, in the cold light of day. In defence of my own take on 911, I think it was bound to lead to a better world than the one we've finished up with.

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14 Sep 03 - 10:29 PM (#1018991)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: GUEST,pdq

"In defense of my own take on 9/11, I think it was bound to lead to a better world than the one we've finished up with."

If people cannot agree on anything else, let's agree on this point. Thanks.

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14 Sep 03 - 11:18 PM (#1019013)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: SINSULL

This year I had nightmares about the World Trade Center for the week before September 11th. Strange how much stronger my feeling of dread was as the day approached compared to last year. Maybe the war in Iraq is part of it. I don't know. I do know that September 12th brought me a great feeling of relief.

Though I do not think that Bush is doing a great job, I also think it is ridiculous to blame him for Septemebr 11th. Or the FBI. Or anyone else. Americans did not believe that an attack of this nature was possible on home ground. We were complacent. And we have had a terrible wake up call. Recent reports of a man smuggled in cargo on an airliner and spent uranium shipped by a TV station to prove how lax security still is suggest we can expect more of the same.

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14 Sep 03 - 11:46 PM (#1019022)
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat and 9-11; Looking Back
From: InOBU

Dear Sinsull... I don't think this happened because of complacency, in fact the best defense is always eventually out witted, the real defense is to be a trust worthy good nieghbor through out the world. This all did not just happen. There is history before as well as after the event, and Americans are complacent about current events and history, that is the complacency that counts.
HEY! We hall have to get together for a sing and some ethopian dinner again one of these days!
Cheers
Larry

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