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26 Sep 03 - 05:54 AM (#1025094) Subject: Folklore: shoot the rest of em. From: tuggy mac If you had the chance to filter out the crap from a singeround music session at your localby this i mean singers musicians and the talkers whilst peaople are trying to listen or the prat who dosent swith his mobile phone off! You decide and add your own. which three musical instruments would you marry together ,and sitting there with a musical 12 bore who would you waste? Cheers tuggy mac. |
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26 Sep 03 - 06:16 AM (#1025109) Subject: RE: Folklore: shoot the rest of em. From: tuggy mac Ill start it with the talkers who dont bring an instrument and can be heard over the players. |
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26 Sep 03 - 06:59 AM (#1025140) Subject: RE: Folklore: shoot the rest of em. From: Steve Parkes I'd start with the musos who are rude enought to talk when anyone sings! |
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26 Sep 03 - 12:02 PM (#1025144) Subject: RE: Folklore: shoot the rest of em. From: tuggy mac i agree! |
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26 Sep 03 - 01:13 PM (#1025171) Subject: RE: Folklore: shoot the rest of em. From: Sorcha The accordian player who doesn't know session rules. |
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26 Sep 03 - 01:18 PM (#1025174) Subject: RE: Folklore: shoot the rest of em. From: Les in Chorlton People who don't appreciate that we all sang or played for the first time and many of us weren't much good but more importantly people who offer violence. |
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26 Sep 03 - 01:27 PM (#1025180) Subject: RE: Folklore: shoot the rest of em. From: Ebbie In the weekly singaround I conduct I often say clearly: "OK-we've got one going. 'Singer', what you got?" That has always worked. When a buzz of conversation starts around the room between songs I sometimes do a WAH wah WAH wah on a couple of high notes and when everyone looks my way, I'll say something like: "Back to music?" Once in a great while I have asked a couple of people to take their conversation into the other room. I remember only one time when it offended someone- but then he was a frequent offender... Hasn't done it since. Once in awhile either I or someone else will remnd the group to back off on guitars while someone with a quiet voice is singing. And when that hasn't worked I ask the quiet voiced one to move midway into the ring so everyone can hear. The only thing that rattles me is when guitars are beating away and the players aren't listening to anyone or anything. You can get three different rhythms going that way. I haven't figured out yet how to handle that one. |
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26 Sep 03 - 04:29 PM (#1025291) Subject: RE: Folklore: shoot the rest of em. From: McGrath of Harlow People who aren't playing anything, but hog the seats in the middle of the music while musicians are struggling to play standing. |
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26 Sep 03 - 05:47 PM (#1025336) Subject: RE: Folklore: shoot the rest of em. From: Charley Noble I'm absolutely against shootin' such people in and around the song circle. The aggressive stringed instrument players can be delt with by wire clippers, a bucket of water for the smokers, cayenne pepper for the talkers, but I confess I don't know what to do with the concertina players? Maybe I'll just join in with them, in F#. Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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26 Sep 03 - 06:01 PM (#1025341) Subject: RE: Folklore: shoot the rest of em. From: McGrath of Harlow Give 'em a firm squeeze... |
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26 Sep 03 - 08:21 PM (#1025404) Subject: RE: Folklore: shoot the rest of em. From: The Fooles Troupe McGrath's comment "People who aren't playing anything, but hog the seats in the middle of the music while musicians are struggling to play standing." Most especially if they can't play any instrument at all. The most obnoxious criticism I've had (about any instrument I play) is from those who do not play that instrument. If sufficiently pissed off, and in the right mood, I am not above physically offering the instrument to them and saying something like "Go ahead - I always like to take lessons from a master on the instrument". Related to this, usually the more instruments a person plays the more tolerant I have found them to any other instrument. But of course, some people are just natural "gentle-folks". I got others, but that's enough for now... Robin Multi-instrumentalist, but not a know-all (Really!) |
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26 Sep 03 - 09:54 PM (#1025446) Subject: RE: Folklore: shoot the rest of em. From: LadyJean There was a woman who used to come to the Smokey City Folk Festivals with her two horrible children named, so help me God! Rueben and Rachel! The screamed, they shouted, they cried, they screeched nursery school songs, at the top of their little lungs, while their mother sat there, completely oblivious. She barely noticed the little monsters existed. I haven't seen Rueben or Rachel in years. The little nightmares must be grown now, unless someone had mercy on us all and drowned them. |
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26 Sep 03 - 11:03 PM (#1025474) Subject: RE: Folklore: shoot the rest of em. From: Bert I'd take the wire clippers to those guitar players (it's always guitar players) who jump in out of turn in a circle. |
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27 Sep 03 - 08:00 AM (#1025573) Subject: RE: Folklore: shoot the rest of em. From: Willie-O Why are there so many threads about negative aspects of sessions? Sessions are fun, musical, and social. That's why we have 'em. As for annoyances, pretty much everyone except me and thee can be annoying sometimes. And I'm not so sure about thee. But seriously, the "problems" are the same the world over. Whatever is distracting your attention from the music. Invariably, someone who is not as developed in musicianship (not the same as playing ability) as the person who is annoyed. W-O Hey, I'm going to meet Jerry Holland this morning, he's coming to do a workshop at our fiddle orchestra rehearsal. Whoops, thread creep. How annoying. Must be my insufficiently developed threadianship. |
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27 Sep 03 - 10:47 AM (#1025620) Subject: RE: Folklore: shoot the rest of em. From: tuggy mac You lost me after sessions !few! Sorry matey.Too many big words! All the best tuggy mac. |
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27 Sep 03 - 11:19 AM (#1025630) Subject: RE: Folklore: shoot the rest of em. From: Bat Goddess Yeah the instrumentalists who either talk when someone's singing -- or else walk away, en mass. And the doodlers who have to be playing something tuneless even if nothing else is temporarily going on so the singer can't find a note or hear the intro. Linn |
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28 Sep 03 - 05:14 AM (#1025723) Subject: RE: Folklore: shoot the rest of em. From: tuggy mac I agree entirely lin! and the instrument tuners whilst peaopl are playing.And how about the prat who decides he will play the fruit machine(badit) whilst the jammers sare in full flow. Cheers tuggy mac. |
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28 Sep 03 - 03:38 PM (#1025898) Subject: RE: Folklore: shoot the rest of em. From: Noreen tuggy mac, is there anything you like about sessions and music? I may be wrong, but I think all the threads you have started have been critical and negative. I prefer to focus on the enjoyable. |
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28 Sep 03 - 06:20 PM (#1025983) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: GUEST,Peter from Essex The OP says "singaround at your local" If the session is in a bar then other customers have as much right to make noise as you have to sing or play. If you can't hack it then hire the function room and only admit those who obey your rules. |
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28 Sep 03 - 06:31 PM (#1025993) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: Snuffy Got it in one, Peter |
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29 Sep 03 - 04:06 AM (#1026161) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: GUEST,mink Sorry - gotta vent my spleen here. Recently I encountered The Oaf - an Oaf both personally & musically. Probably THE most annoying session-attender in the world. Sang LONG songs very monotonously, wanted (& sometimes succeeded) to do 2 in a row where everyone else was doing only one, criticised another musician for not playing the song as per CD (!!!!), joined in out of tune on tin whistle with other people's songs, joined in out of tune with himself too, started a political argument, talked VERY loudly over other people's songs, percussed AND handed out implements of percussion, knowingly repeated a song someone had done earlier in the evening - how do such people surive? I can only assume he is new to the scene & a little over-enthusiastic & under-ettiquetted. Anyway - I'd not shoot the bugger, because he'd only enjoy the attention. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Ah - feel better now . cheers |
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29 Sep 03 - 05:51 AM (#1026187) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: Pied Piper If you can't sing or play with enough commitment and pathos to win the punters attention, don't blame them it's your problem. TTFN PP |
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29 Sep 03 - 06:04 AM (#1026192) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: GUEST,minky Bollox Pied P - Sometimes it doesn't matter how well you are singing/playing - if people are busy chatting & don't want to listen then they won't. I don't think we need to feel that is our failing! Its just one of those things & is part & parcel of singing in pubs. BUT - it is still very rude for any musician to talk LOUDLY through someone elses' performance, irrespective of quality. |
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29 Sep 03 - 06:34 AM (#1026200) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: Pied Piper In a Pub people have the right to listen or not listen, as is there wish. If you can't stand the heat get out of the Kitchen. Maybe find yourself a nice cosy back room with a door you can shut against the masses and some 50 something lapsed socialists to stare and tut tut when someone is showing insufficient respect to the "Artists". But wait a minute, its already been done; they're called Folk Clubs. TTFN PP |
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29 Sep 03 - 06:44 AM (#1026203) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: Mr Happy pp agree, all the sesshes i go to are in pubs- usually the lounge. my own sesh is one of these & after all it is a PUBLIC house, so other customers have just as much right to speak or anything else as the musos & siners doing their stuff. if any of the customers is excessively noisy or disruptive, cheerful charlie, the barman slings 'em out. also if, as pp says, the ongoing entertainment is worth listening to,then people will shut up & listen. |
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29 Sep 03 - 07:01 AM (#1026211) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: GUEST,minkest PP - I'd rather just get rid of the rude wankers that expect me to listen to their songs & then talk ostentatiously over mine. And its not because I'm no good - I am good, so there! The general pub locals are of course welcome to do whatever they generally do - within reason. And its always appreciated if the regulars do react favourably. Its usually obvious if a pub as a whole don't really want us there & we will go elsewhere without getting unduly up our own arses about it. And no I don't want to sit in a folk club full of 50 something lapsed socialists - but that's just too true an image for comfort isn't it? Well it is around where I live anyway. |
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29 Sep 03 - 07:07 AM (#1026214) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: GUEST,Mick Pied Piper you're a bit of a prat aren't you? |
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29 Sep 03 - 08:00 AM (#1026229) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: Dave Bryant I'm always a bit annoyed by the singer who forgets the words of a song when they're nearly at the end, and who therefore starts a new song from the beginning - I think that after the second verse they should have to wait until the next time round. I do agree that in a pub singaround, you have to be prepared to put up with some noise, but I often wonder why some people (usually non-performers) will take great pains to grab a seat in the middle of the bar and then natter through the whole proceedings. The couple of times when I've asked has usually got a reply along the lines of "I like listening to Folk Singing" - pity they don't make it easier for the rest of the audience to enjoy the same thing. The thing that annoys me most though, is the person who talks loudly when they're standing right next to the person singing - couldn't they wait until "the spot" has passed on to someone further away or perhaps move further away themselves for the duration of the song. As far as people talking when I'm singing, that's my problem. In some cases I can put it down to the wrong choice of song for the moment. I do have a fairly powerful voice and I can make it very difficult for anyone to carry on with a conversation in my vicinity - on the other hand I might move myself to somewhere easier to sing. I also have several comic songs in my repertoire which allow me to direct the odd line or verse at members of the audience and it can often be quite fun to choose someone who is being rather noisy. I must admit that I do a lot of pub singing outside of the security blanket of a singaround and so perhaps I've learnt how to manage an audience better than many singers. |
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29 Sep 03 - 08:03 AM (#1026232) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: smallpiper I'm with PP on this one and I don't think he's a prat. I avoid singarounds but don't mind mixed sessions. What amuses me here are the number of people complaining about musos talking when someone is singing - Have you ever been to a mixed session and noticed how quiet everyone is when people are singing and how noisy the singers are when someone is playing? That is my experince of sessions (not all singers are like that but the majority, in my experience, are. For example I was playing a slow air at Otley and some singer types came barging in talking over the top of my playing and even banged into me, one of them then had the cheek to have a go at someone who was very quietly moving a guitar case and making room for someone to sit down while this git was singing!) That's my pet hate - i.e. people who don't respect others. |
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29 Sep 03 - 08:15 AM (#1026237) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: McGrath of Harlow Anyone who stands next to Dave Bryant when he's simnging and carries on a conversation must have a bloody loud voice, that's all! One loud conversation have spoil the enjoyment of a whole bunch of people, the same way one person smoking in a stuffy room can do the same for a whole roomful of people who aren't smoking. That's not the same as saying that regulars who aren't part of a session should have to shut up - there's a balance in all things. Toning down the over noisy talker should preferably be done by the people with him (it's always "him"), rather by the people in the session. Or the bartender. |
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29 Sep 03 - 08:28 AM (#1026252) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: Steve Parkes A word of caution here ... I've said this elsewher, but it bears repeating: DON'T cut guitar strings with wire cutters -- they are hardened steel,and wil ruin the edge of the blades; always use the notch in the side of a pair of pliers. Steve |
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29 Sep 03 - 08:50 AM (#1026269) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: The Fooles Troupe Yes Steve, and you should be careful - the tensioned strings ehen cut can whip around and take out your eyes.. :-) Robin |
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29 Sep 03 - 09:06 AM (#1026282) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: GUEST,alexis My worst experience (and very nearly my last because of it)was at a singaround at Holmfirth Folk Festival a few years ago. I got relieved of £4 at the bar to get into a side room with nowhere to sit or stand that wasn't in front of singers, had to endure some t**t standing next to me singing all the choruses half a tone flat and people shushing whenever anyone even took a swig of their beer.(if my memory serves me right, it was being run by someone from Shoddy Doggie) I tend to go with Pied Piper in that when I was growing up and drinking in Cornwall, in you were any good, people listened. Alex |
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29 Sep 03 - 09:19 AM (#1026292) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: Rapparee 'Twasn't a singaround, but a performance by Seamus Kennedy. The table in front of us (we were there first, by the way) smoked (nonsmoking area) and chattered loudly throughout the first half of Seamus's set, obviously enjoying some sort of reunion. We had to leave at the break, as the smoke was getting to our friend (allergy). Worse, the talkers criticized the music when they bothered to talk of it, complaining that it wasn't rock! But I wouldn't shoot 'em. Too messy and too quick. I'd gag them and lock them in a room filled with off-key accordion music, varied with violin (not fiddle!) music played by beginning violin players and out-of-tune piobrachs. |
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29 Sep 03 - 09:32 AM (#1026306) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: The Barden of England Sessions in a pub are just that, so you can and should, expect people to be noisy. Many go to their pub so they can have a conversation, a contest of the dart or suchlike. Don't forget that many people these days have only known the 'Sound of Musak' and live acoustic music, voice or instrument or both, is not something they meet every day, so invariably they will tend to do what we all do and try to talk over the 'Musak'. In a club on the other hand, why do people still want to talk over people porforming? I suggest to anyone who thinks that's OK to try doing it in the auditorium at a West End play, or during an Opera! If people have paid money, then they should expect to be able to hear whoever is performing. Would any of you do it if Martin Carthy were performing? Don't knock Folk Clubs and brand them all as (and I quote from an earlier post) "a nice cosy back room with a door you can shut against the masses and some 50 something lapsed socialists to stare and tut tut when someone is showing insufficient respect to the "Artists". |
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29 Sep 03 - 09:43 AM (#1026312) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: Fay I have a minor dislike of those people who go sssshhhh all the way through the first two or so verses of an unaccompanied song in an effort to make everyone else shut up and listen. If they wanted to hear it, why make such an irritating sound which often also embarrasses the singer. The rest of the people will either quieten down when they hear whats going on, or not. If you must do something, eye contact is less obtrusive and more effective. |
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29 Sep 03 - 09:51 AM (#1026317) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: GUEST,MMario as a singer who doesn't play an instrument _ I notice that even though this thread is specifically titled "singaround disturbances" there is still an incredible amount of mention and talk about instruments and those who *don't* play. SING-around. SING-around....gee - don't you think for a SINGararound those who don't play instruments could be excused that petty little lack? Singers *ARE* musicians too! |
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29 Sep 03 - 10:11 AM (#1026324) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: Mr Happy GUEST,MMario, have a peek at the first post in this thead, the originator mentions, 'singeround music session'. There's not always enough space in the titling box to describe a topic fully. |
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29 Sep 03 - 10:25 AM (#1026329) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: VIN Well said, John Barden. I go to a pub session (don't play or sing there meself) and expect some noise, especially when ther'e a darts match goin on in the tap room. With organised clubs and singarounds/sessions i think its basically down to good manners and a bit of tolerance and basic common sense. If you want to talk while someone's singing/playing then go outside the room. Otherwise, i reckon its just being ignorant. I kind of agree with you too Fay re the loud ssssshhhhh-ing thing, that can be irritating. I used to go listening to the Halle orchestra quite a lot and in those concerts if someone is rustling a sweet wrapper or whispering loudly during quiet pieces, you get what we nick-named the 'Halle stare' which can be quite effective. A modicum of chat can be tolerable in folk clubs and singing/playing sessions and most people usually do quiten down....but occasionally some don't. I don't think being intollerant or ignorant to others is some kind of 'right' to be practiced! |
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29 Sep 03 - 10:29 AM (#1026333) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: Steve Parkes Some years ago, I got up to sing in a strange place. Shortly into the song, I could hear some whuspered conversation (ot wasn't bothering me, in fact) and someone went "Sh!" quite loudly: so I stopped singing and apologised, which got a good laugh, and the talkers stopped talking: everyone happy. I well remember Alex Campbell interrupting himself in mid-story to say, "look, I don't mind you talking when I'm singing, but if you talk when I'm talking...!" He brought the house down, of course. If it's bothering you (and you're sufficiently heckle-proof), it's worth a humorous attempt to shut them up: "shall I wait until you've finished?" or "your converstion is more interesting than my song, let's listen to that instead!" -- or maybe try being rude. It's important to be confident you can get the last word. Long ago, a young guitarist was trying to sing songs and tell jokes, and not very well; a man kept heckiling him, until he said, "come up here, if you can do better!" ... and he did, and he could ... and Little and Large was (were?) born, and the world was never quiote the same again. Steve |
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29 Sep 03 - 10:29 AM (#1026334) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: McGrath of Harlow "Sushing" is a drag, and it can be worse than the talking. Either eye contact and a wave of the hands, or if the occasion demands it, maybe a bellowed "Shut the **** up would you!!" |
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29 Sep 03 - 10:33 AM (#1026336) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: Dave Bryant I also tend to prefer well run mixed sessions, but without any control they will usually get taken over by the instrumentalists (notice that I didn't say musicians MMario). I think that an ideal ratio is about one instrumental spot to at least two songs. This is because most instrumental sets tend to consist of two or more tunes and can even "chain", as many players use another person's B tune for their A tune. Also on the whole players will all tend to join in together so they don't have to wait for a full cycle to have another go (OK I know that singers can join in choruses). I think that for many tunes in an instrumental session, it doesn't matter if people talk over them, but would agree that certain players/tunes could do with a "bit of hush". Singers on the other hand are not just making music, they are also presenting lyrics which need to be listened to in a more focussed way if the song is to be fully apreciated. I hate singing a song as a form of Muzac - if no-one's listening to the word, i feel that I'm wasting my time. |
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29 Sep 03 - 06:58 PM (#1026414) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: smallpiper Surley if it dosn't matter if people talk over tunes then it really dosn't matter if people talk over songs then does it. Hell most of us are born with a voice but non of us are born instrumentalists we have to learn to do that and work bloody hard at it too (I am not saying that vocalists don't also have to work hard before you start having a go at me, just that instrumentalists (muzo's as I prefer to call them) have to work harder)and respect is a two way street. |
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29 Sep 03 - 07:07 PM (#1026420) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: McGrath of Harlow But it doesn't make that much difference when you're playing if there's a bit of noise in the background - I mean it doesn't normally put you off or spoil the enjoyment (unless there are chairs flying through the air), so long as you can huddle closer to the others playing and hear them. The listeners lose out, rather than the players. I've heard superb ensemble playing in situations where you can't hear yourself speak and have to order drinks by sign language. But with singing it's different, if you're singing against a racket, you can't hear yourself (though that's where the oft-derided finger behind the ear comes into its own)- or it turns into a shouting competition, and that can wreck your voice. |
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29 Sep 03 - 07:14 PM (#1026430) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: smallpiper I play smallpipes which are quite quiet and I struggle to hear myself playing in noisy situations, others may be able to hear me as the sound is projected away from me but I can't hear myself which is a situation that pisses me off. I expect and tollerate limited background noise so why shouldn't singers - at least they can increase their volume, I can't, unless I swap to GHB's in which case no one will be able to hear themselves! There is no excuse for what comes down to simple rudness either on the part of the talkers, singers or muzo's. Tolerate it or go sing or play somewhere else. |
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29 Sep 03 - 07:15 PM (#1026431) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: GUEST,Guest Folkie Every other week it seems that a bitter and accusatory thread starts wingeing about manners at singarounds/playarounds. I get worried that the musical community is its own worst enemy in setting up rules of behaviour that the rest of the world have to guess at. Our sessions ought to be welcoming and inclusive - one of the advantages in pub singing/playing is that it carries the tradition back to the public - great. There is a place for concerts and closed clubs to preach to the converted; playing in public areas, whether pubs or street corners, is guaranteed to suffer from noise and movement that would not happen in a private environment. Why does this surprise anyone? I feel that the hush that comes over a pub with a particularly good performance is worth the hazard of pub work. |
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29 Sep 03 - 07:52 PM (#1026466) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: GUEST,SeaKing Up to a point the prat who doesn't switch off his mobile phone- honest mistakes can happen, but both barrels for the ignoramus who then proceeeds to engage in a loud conversation on the wretched thing without leaving the room. Can't leave out the dear landlord / barmaid either who can't wait between songs to ring the bell and yell "Last orders PLEASE Ladies and GentleMEN". Vin has it spot on "its basically down to good manners and a bit of tolerance and basic common sense". Covers it all. |
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29 Sep 03 - 10:23 PM (#1026481) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: AliUK When the noise levels at a club I was running a few years ago, got above the acceptable level...do you know what I did....got a p.a. system installed for the sessions and the peoplke were amped. Everybody heard and people couldn´t natter. |
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29 Sep 03 - 11:54 PM (#1026502) Subject: RE: sincere apologies. From: tuggy mac My sincere apologies to everyone on the choice of words to my queerie! i am new to the internet and obviously too old to learn new tricks .I did not mean to cause offence,And i can see how my lousy choice of words could offend, I only meant by musical 12 bore, a very loud instrument.and by waste i meant drown out.I have obviously watched too much t v. I am a softy at heart and would not hurt a fly. i would not wish harm on any one,I should have asked what anoys you the most .but i frased it all wrong. Could someone please tell me how to remove my original question/thread? I think its someone called joe offer!I f your reading this Joe offer,would you please erase it.? i have had enough of this pc. and at the end of the week give it a new home with my grand kids.
-Joe Offer- |
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30 Sep 03 - 02:05 AM (#1026538) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: GUEST,Boab I'm with the Pied Piper. In a bona fide folk club, or previously arranged session, the guy [or guyess] running the show does the right thing in requesting order for a performer. In a pub? I've done more than most with the squeezebox in a corner of many a bar. I have always played along and pleased myself, till folks [as they always do] start taking an interest, and subsequently play FOR them. This usually lasts till the barman calls "time"---or some uppity half-or-three-quarter-sozzled would-be m.c. bawls "order for the singer!" That is my signal for laying the "box' aside. Most guys [and guyesses...] go into a public bar to drink, socialise and enjoy themselves in their chosen way. It may be that a music maker is right up their alley. In the odd case, the music may get right up their nose[!]. That, however, has happened to me only once in my long mediocre career. If the volume is such that it does not interfere with conversation, most folks are happy to have a melody in the background. Those who are attracted to the musician will gather round and get involved. |
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30 Sep 03 - 02:32 AM (#1026546) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: The Fooles Troupe Say Rapaire, Will you let me have that gig? Unfortunately my accordion IS in tune, but I do have my father's fiddle which I haven't yet learnt to play... but I'm willing to do anything for a paying gig... ;-) Robin |
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30 Sep 03 - 02:44 AM (#1026550) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: The Shambles The answer to all these problems is very easy and can be achieved without upsetting anyone. If there is something going on that you don't like - just leave and start your own, for the majority of these events are in public places where everyone has as much right to do exactly as they wish. Leaving the event is not only the only thing you can do but hopefully if enough people recognise this is the ONLY solution - we will not continue to tolerate or support the bad habits and rudeness that have become so entrenched. Rather than just giving us the opportunity to just carry on moaning - unless of course that is what we all prefer and wish to do? |
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30 Sep 03 - 04:43 AM (#1026589) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: smallpiper Moaning, complaining and bitching we should stop?????? Gosh then what would we do? :-) |
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30 Sep 03 - 04:52 AM (#1026596) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: GUEST,ex Londoner Is this the master debating society?? IG |
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30 Sep 03 - 04:56 AM (#1026600) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull Heloo, I think shooting people is illegal, unless you got a good reason, ie, if they are gypsies abnd brake into your house or soimeething, or theire dog bites you etc., 9 thats called reesonable force.john |
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30 Sep 03 - 05:14 AM (#1026607) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: Steve Hunt If your singaround is made intolerable by folks talking to each other in the pub, why not gather in in your kitchen, where you can ensure that every singer gets full attention? As for sessions... If there's really so little empathy between singers and instrumentalists that you actively annoy one one another(!) then why not just stop playing and singing for an hour or two and talk to *each other* in the pub? The one thing that sessions can really do without is enmity. Peace, love and mine's a pint..... |
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30 Sep 03 - 05:17 AM (#1026610) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull My kitchen smells of ded animals! 9 Could be all them ded rabbits in the cupboard). |
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30 Sep 03 - 05:28 AM (#1026622) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: Dave Bryant Smallpiper - your pipes are exactly the sort of thing that I was referring to when I said that some instruments can do with "a bit of hush". On the other hand when there are six melodeons, four fiddles, two banjos, an electric bass, and a whole posse of enthusiastic bodhran players, belting out "Dingles Regatta" it's an ideal time for the non-participants to buy a drink, have a chat etc. I must say that on most of the occasions where I've heard quiet instruments drowned out, it has been other instrumentalists who have done it, rather that people talking. I recently heard a wonderful hurdy-gurdy player completely swamped by other musicians who didn't even know the french tunes that he was attempting to play. Loud conversation tends to mask out the lyrics of songs, however, much more than it does the tune and this is the reason why I consider singers sometimes need more consideration. Incidently, I run a mixed monthly session and both the performers and the pub customers tend to listen to both songs and instrumentals. I have also run many mixed sessions at festivals etc and had very little problem with too much noise - if you can get a good mix of material people will generally listen. |
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30 Sep 03 - 05:34 AM (#1026627) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: VIN Ello tuggy mac. Don't worry, you started (or re-started)a good debate and dispite the odd nastiness and 'catty' remarks that creep in, its better to 'air' these things, get it out in the open (if you pardon the expression) and 'argue the fat' rather than bottle it all up and cause grief and 'umbridge'at the music meets! As the saying goes...'if you've owt to say then spit it out' |
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30 Sep 03 - 05:52 AM (#1026634) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: smallpiper DAve thats exactly why I said somthing along the lines of accept it or go somewhere else - generally I accept it and give hush for singers. But that dosn't mean I have to like it when they (singers) complain about muzo's talking over their songs when they are quilty of doing that same thing to muzos. |
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30 Sep 03 - 06:14 AM (#1026639) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: Alexis An interesting debate. It makes me realise how blessed we are in the Holme Valley with sessions that aren't "run" by anyone, most are attended by tolerant and appreciative people. There is the occaisional melodeon / accordion that can't hear the tune that a recorder or whistle has started and hijacks it, but there are also the variety of a mixed (singing and instrumental)session, a "normal" (not so much diddly dee with a smattering of french amongst the english) and a diddly dee "biased" session on different thursdays. I've never heard any argumeents yet and don't expect to. After all, its about making music and having fun isn't it? Alex |
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30 Sep 03 - 06:29 AM (#1026642) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: GUEST jOhn if their dog bites you you are only within your rights to kill the dog, not the owner (although I've met some very irresponsible dog owners who deserved it!). As to the rest of the thread I don't like it when people in the bar chatter when a very quiet singer is singing, I always find that a group of VERY loud players and singers just before the quiet person can help to abate the noise (it's the shock value I think!). |
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30 Sep 03 - 10:13 AM (#1026667) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: Bill D I've been reading, and my considered opinion is that, if I ever got VERY rich, I would build a pub/bar with a glassed in, soundproof room in the rear, with the music piped in, so those who cannot restrain themselves could go chatter to their hearts content...but WOE be to those who could not keep talk to the necessary minimum in the (smoke free) music area! No, this would not solve any of the problems for those who can't get to my fine establishment, but it would solve it for ME...sort of...maybe.... I guess this is a problem that never goes away. Getting together for music, whether session, singaround or concert is a social thing as well as a music thing, and there are as many notions of how to conduct things as there are people. The answer is to think and be aware of the rights and needs of others, but when emotions, often fueled by alcohol, run high, reasoned thinking is often in short supply. We do the best we can....... |
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01 Oct 03 - 05:07 AM (#1027031) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: The Fooles Troupe Hmmm, I took my Symphonie along to an evening ..... ONCE! :-) Robin |
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01 Oct 03 - 05:22 AM (#1027040) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: Oaklet My only experience of intolerance at sessions is hearing the mutterings of the sessioneers when a dozen or so naked bassoonists loudly descend en-masse, barge everyone out of the way and start smashing the furniture and beating the chunks of mdf on the walls without waiting for the singer or musician to finish. If it continues like this at the Coach and Horses in Barton-Without-Hyphens, someone will eventually have to say something. |
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01 Oct 03 - 07:42 AM (#1027103) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: Dave Bryant What sex are the bassoonists ? |
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01 Oct 03 - 07:53 AM (#1027112) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: GUEST,KB Aren't they some kind of monkey with its arse hanging out? |
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01 Oct 03 - 08:18 AM (#1027125) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: Steve Parkes No, that's a piano-accordianist. |
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01 Oct 03 - 10:46 AM (#1027250) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: The Fooles Troupe What is the definition of an optimist? A piano accordionist with a pager... Robin |
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01 Oct 03 - 03:37 PM (#1027456) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: Oaklet Dave, the naked bassoonists that so plague our session are hermaphrodites. |
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02 Oct 03 - 01:50 AM (#1027745) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: GUEST,Boab Reminds me---an accordionist with a great rip in his pants was approached by a concerned female--"Say, friend--d'ye know your arse is showing?" Reply--" No, but if ye can hum it, I'll try to follow---" Boab [accordion player------] |
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02 Oct 03 - 04:22 AM (#1027781) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: GUEST,Ross I'm from Barton with hyphens We're terribly posh I can sympathise with this fred - keeping everyone at a singaround happy is very good training for maintaining world peace |
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02 Oct 03 - 01:32 PM (#1028112) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: The Fooles Troupe Oh dear, where's Elsie the Folk Policewoman when you need her... Robin |
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02 Oct 03 - 02:19 PM (#1028143) Subject: RE: Shoot the rest of em (singaround disturbances) From: McGrath of Harlow Getting in PA doesn't necessarily help, especially for singers. When you sing a song you aren't singing all the time, there are pauses if it's to make any sense - and that's when the fellas who are shouting to each other, because of the PA, really come into their own, and everyone hears what they are bellowing. (That can be quite fun actually...) I hope tuggy isn't retiring and taking his (or her) bat home. This is a good thread, and pretty even tempered. I think most people here know about exaggeration and figurative speech and so forth, and don't take thing literally when they aren't meant literally. |