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12 Jan 04 - 04:06 PM (#1091367) Subject: In praise of music From: kendall How about a thread that praises music for how it makes us feel? Of course I'll start. "The function of music is to free our minds from the tyranny of consious thought." (Sir Thomas Beecham) And the most often misquoted one, "Music hath charm to sooth the savage BREAST." (Can't recall the author) "Rock is to music what graffiti is to literature." (me) |
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12 Jan 04 - 05:04 PM (#1091402) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: GUEST,Martin Gibson Sorry you think so low of rock music. There has been much rock music over the years influenced by classical music. i.e: Yes, The Moody Blues. Personally, I find some graffiti superiorly more interesting then much outdated literature that has been shoved down the throats of students. You should be strapped in a chair and forced to listen to an electric guitar for 12 straight hours. |
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12 Jan 04 - 05:19 PM (#1091416) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: Uncle_DaveO That "Music hath charms" quote is from some young English playwright: Uhh, Wiggle-lance, or something like that. Dave Oesterreich |
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12 Jan 04 - 05:23 PM (#1091423) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: Amos Martin: You and Teribus, too! Why do you cultivate crude, dull, beefy, heavy handed rudeness rather than discrimination and quickness of wit? What makes it preferable? Returning to the spirit of the thread -- I have often felt that alife without music is only part of a life. A |
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12 Jan 04 - 05:24 PM (#1091425) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: Clinton Hammond From "Almost Famous" "... I dig music...." |
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12 Jan 04 - 05:34 PM (#1091437) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: GUEST The Guitarist Tunes Up With what attentive courtesy he bent Over his instrument; Not as a lordly conquerer who could Command both wire and wood, But as a man with a loved woman might, Inquiring with delight What slight essential things she had to say Before they started, he and she, to play. Francis Cornford (1886-1960) |
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12 Jan 04 - 05:46 PM (#1091443) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: Ed. Well said, Kendall. You do yourself no favours by criticising 'Rock' or 'Rap' though. They mean as much to many people as your music does to you. "Don't criticise what you can't understand" Who said that? |
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12 Jan 04 - 05:51 PM (#1091451) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: GUEST,Martin Gibson Amos Because it upsets you? Calling me crude should be about as OK as calling you a snob. What spirit of the thread? I think the comparison this guy made of rock music to music grafiti/literature is basically ridiculous and totally snobby and completely uniformed. Excuse me for saying so. I like rock music. Not all of it, but some of it. Again, excuse me for making a comments tongue in cheek that obviously got your undies in a bunch. I don't know who Teribus is. Is he related to you or someone you jam with? Hey, that's kind of a quickness of wit! |
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12 Jan 04 - 06:42 PM (#1091481) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: Willa 'Art thou troubled? Music will calm thee' Handel 'If music be the food of love, play on' Wiggle-lance again! |
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12 Jan 04 - 07:30 PM (#1091515) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: Walking Eagle " It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing" Count Basie, I believe. |
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12 Jan 04 - 07:33 PM (#1091518) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: kendall I simply stated an opinion. No one has a right to tell me my opinion is wrong. If I had said it as a fact, that would be wrong. Everything is relative; to a germ, good health is a type of disease. I recently had a dust up with a friend who lives to play the Saxophone. To me, it sounds like a giant Kazoo. Well, she went nuts, insisted I was wrong etc. Now, if I had said the sax was not a musical instrument, that would be wrong, but an opinion is never wrong.Tell me you disagree, but don't stick your neck out by telling me I'm wrong. There is a TV program called "Myth Busters". It is very interesting, but I can't watch it because the background is loud twanging and pounding.That is rock to me. Live with it. |
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12 Jan 04 - 07:40 PM (#1091526) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: Amos Sorry for flying off the handle, there, it wasn't because you expressed you affection for rock music. I like some rock music. too. But you don't get any points for proposing other-worldly tortures for one of my favorite folk singers, Kendall Morse, on a folk thread. Your suggestion was crude. Teribus is another poster in these parts who speaks crudely sometimes and feels it is perfectly okay to level insults at people. As for "what spirit of the thread", I suggest you look at Kendalls original post on the matter... "a thread that praises music for how it makes us feel? ". Anyway, sorry for the temper. A |
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12 Jan 04 - 08:21 PM (#1091552) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: kendall If I were the "mean" type, I'd say something like, "If you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, only the one it hits will yelp." |
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12 Jan 04 - 08:53 PM (#1091574) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: GUEST,Kay Stella Why do nice threads like this have to be disrupted by the likes of Martin Gibson, a consummate asshole if there ever was one. His preference for grafitti no doubt is a reflection of his reading ability. Electric instruments are not used only for rock and roll, but he is clueless on that. And to which cheek exactly were you applying your tongue, Martin? |
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12 Jan 04 - 09:05 PM (#1091582) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: Ebbie I listened - and watched- in astonishment last week to Saturday Night Live's featured "band". It was called 'Black Crow' and it was - well, it didn't 'speak' to me. It was rap, I suppose, but who knows. It was acrobatic (one guy was very athletic) but I never did figure out what the song was about. I did hear something like 'shake that thang'. Perhaps someone would like to defend it? Man. Am I out of it. |
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12 Jan 04 - 09:06 PM (#1091587) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: GUEST,Martin Gibson Kay Stella Cross your legs, please. Your breath is killing me. You are a true phony, and made up of the absolute cheapest of firewood guitars. Amos, no problem. I personally don't know Kendall like you do and he may be one of your favorite folksingers, but it really annoys me when someone makes a narrow statement like the graffiti rock thing. And Kendall, giving my opinion to counter yours doesn't necessarily mean I am saying you are wrong. It might mean that I think very little of it, but it doesn't mean I think it's wrong. Talk about over-reacting, I hardly think my suggestion is torturously other worldly. No more than I would find listening to Bob Dylan sing while strapped to a chair for 12 hours. |
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12 Jan 04 - 09:32 PM (#1091603) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: Walking Eagle I can't speak for others,but the natural music of the Wood Thrush and the Meadowlark Touches my soul. Guess I want to put in a pitch for Mother Natures' music makers. Add whales and wolves to the choir as well. |
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12 Jan 04 - 09:33 PM (#1091605) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: Uncle_DaveO GUEST Martin Gibson said, in part: "I think the comparison this guy made of rock music to music grafiti/literature is basically ridiculous and totally snobby and completely uniformed. Excuse me for saying so." Lighten up fer Crissakes, Martin Gibson! It's a joke! As well as a fair statement of what some people feel. Dave Oesterreich |
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12 Jan 04 - 10:58 PM (#1091646) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: Walking Eagle I also like to hear the musical call of the little screech owl at night. A bit of wildness in my my urban neighborhood that helps soothe this eagles' ruffled feathers! WHOO, WHOO, whoo, WHOO, Whoo cooks for you ALL? Anyone else have any praises for music they enjoy? |
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12 Jan 04 - 11:12 PM (#1091656) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: Ebbie Music, to me, is not not an elective- it's an essential part of life. If I couldn't make it, I'd still make sure I had it. If I should eventually go deaf, I'm sure I'll still listen to it in my head. I've told the story before somewhere. Some years back I used to go to an open mike where I'd listen to the music and in the course of the evening drink three glasses of wine and then float home up the hill. I thought the floating feeling was due to the wine. Then one night it was so crowded I had no chance to have as much as a cup of coffee, much less wine, so I just sat there and absorbed the music. And when the evening was over, I floated up the hill. |
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12 Jan 04 - 11:42 PM (#1091675) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: GUEST,Ron Davies This may be stretching the thread a bit but...it's a true story "The Power of Music Over Drugs" I try to play the piano a bit every day--don't always get to. I'm not making much progress, I'm just trying not to lose the pieces I can play. One of the cats of the household seems to like my music and likes to sit on top of the piano and listen ( as I've mentioned in another thread). Saturday night she was lolling around in the basement in a box with some catnip in it--had some catnip on her fur. But as soon as she heard me start playing the Moonlight Sonata ( I can do the first two movements-------definitely not the 3rd) (she also likes the Vaughan Williams setting of "On Linden Lea") she dragged herself out of her drug-induced stupor, came right up from the basement, jumped on the keyboard (there are always some 20th century chords in the Moonlight when she does this) and took up her accustomed position on top of the piano |
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12 Jan 04 - 11:48 PM (#1091678) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: johnfitz.com Maybe I'm too old now to take an objective stand. I just spent some time reading the journals my 8th grade English class keeps. I always tell them when your at a loss for what to write about then simply write down one of their favorite songs. Most of what they listen to is pretty sweet stuff--poorly written stuff--but sweet in it's attempt at defining an anger that doesn't want to take any real risks. Many of the poular rap songs are horribly sexist, demeaning and desperate, hence, I guess their allure to the angry, the misunderstood and the marginalized, as well as to the kids in my town, tooling around in their parent's SUV's, begging for college essay help; but still drawn to their own version of "shock and awe." There is music that is always profound--always real--always relevant. When kids ask me what I think of their music I tell them as honestly as possible--often I say it's crap...and someday they'll agree. Cling to what's eternal and don't give credit where none is due. Listen to what you want and take a long hard look at the world. This is all truly pompous wind..and I appreciate greatly appreciate that it exists here on this crazy little website i stumbled upon. Here's my crap. |
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13 Jan 04 - 12:35 AM (#1091697) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: GUEST,Ethereal Purple Guess it's all just a matter of taste... there isn't really *good* or *bad* music. My music taste changes really rapidly... guess it's because I'm growing up... but I don't think it means the music I listen to now is any better than what I used to a couple of years ago. I can't stand a lot of music I used to listen to 5-6 years ago, but that doesn't make it crap. Who knows - I could hate Joan Baez a year from now... right now she's pretty much my favourite. Hmm... but then I can't conceive of hating Joan Baez ever! Point is - music's an essential part of life... whatever music it may be. Music's just music - whether it's rap or rock or folk... or just the *music of nature*. Can't live without it, and I don't think anyone actually can :-). EP |
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13 Jan 04 - 01:57 AM (#1091737) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: Ebbie Drastic thread swing: Walking Eagle, there is a lone wolf holding forth at our main viewing glacier about 10 miles from here. It's black and big and healthy and it sits down at a short distance and howls at people. But when dogs approach it, it does the whole sniff bit with them. (Actually I suspect it's a female.) Many photos have been taken of it; fortunately it's in an area where it's not legal to trap and it's also staying within the no-shoot area. |
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13 Jan 04 - 11:03 AM (#1091814) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: Amos I think there is a spectrum of musicality and certain kinds of rap and rock swing way over to the low end, being hard over on cacophonic blends of sound. Melodiousness, harmonies, resolution of dissonances, a sense of some sort of order are some of the tyhings that go in to musicality. Emotionally, some kinds of music seem much more focused on rage and destruction than love, hope, or even melancholy -- the major themes in folk music. There are also various grades of subtlety architecturally in music -- some sorts are blatant and ham-handed, and other kinds are woven with a delicacy of balance and interplay. Now, judging musical pieces, songs and the like overall, I would have to say that a piece that was architecturally hamhanded and blunt, had no subtlety, was cacophonic and raucous, vented destructive emotions, and made no effort toward musicality, why, such apiece of music would be way down toward garbage in my estimation. Kendall said pretty much the same thing in fewer words. There ARE various criteria for the art. It is true ultimately that goodness and badness are merely opinions, but that doesn't mean there is no way to measure the differences between music and garbage. A work of art that celebrates human degradation of humans, vicious disdain between men and women, and untrammeled dramatization of testosterone poisoning is not my notion of art that communicates very well. A |
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13 Jan 04 - 11:07 AM (#1091819) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: kendall "Nothing is good, or bad. Thinking makes them so." (Shakespere) So, MG, you have the same opinion of my opinion that I have of yours. This is America. |
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13 Jan 04 - 11:31 AM (#1091849) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: mack/misophist Somewhere in one of Dorothy Sayers' books is a discussion of understanding art (painting). The things she says apply equally well to music, I think. The first step is to expose yourself to a lot of it, both 'good' and 'bad'. Over time, with careful observation, the good will become more readily apparant. And never forget that art is about communication. If it says something hateful but does it well, it's still art. The greatness of music is that it can take us out of ourselves. It can show us depths of feeling that we were unaware of, that we may even find unwelcome. The weakness of music is that the process is aided immensely by better understanding. A person who plays or sings or has studied instruments/theory has a huge head start over any one who hasn't. |
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13 Jan 04 - 12:05 PM (#1091887) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: *daylia* The greatness of music is that it can take us out of ourselves. It can show us depths of feeling that we were unaware of, that we may even find unwelcome. The weakness of music is that the process is aided immensely by better understanding. A person who plays or sings or has studied instruments/theory has a huge head start over any one who hasn't. Well said, mack. The only drawback I've found to studying instruments/theory is that one can get so distracted by the head stuff, the analysis, the "technicalities" of the music it detracts from the appreciation and enjoyment of it. Like not being able to see the forest for the trees. When I'm focussed on things like "That's a B diminished chord in second inversion" or "Wow, that fiddle player sure needs more resin on his bow ... and hey, where did he ever learn to hold it like THAT!", the emotional imaginative impact of the music gets drowned out somehow. So, the challenge for me is to find that happy medium between "knowing" music, and allowing my mind to relax enough that the music can just "carry me away". daylia |
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13 Jan 04 - 02:59 PM (#1092065) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: GUEST,Martin Gibson Dave Joke? Pretty easy to not see it that way. One of the flaws of this type of communication, for sure. As far as Kendall quoting Shakespeare, "Nothing is good, or bad. Thinking makes them so." that is so ludicrous. Shakespeare might have written some famous plays, but I hardly think he was known as a philosopher. Walking Eagle, please pass the peace pipe! |
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13 Jan 04 - 03:31 PM (#1092085) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: Walking Eagle It's there for the taking folks.You have only to show interest, and ease of mind, in wanting it. Ebbie, sure wish that I live wherever you do. Back to music. I think that it was Paul Winter that said that he finds that much of nature seems to sing in the key of D. Has anyone noticed that? I can't say that I can tell that much. |
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13 Jan 04 - 03:42 PM (#1092096) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: Uncle_DaveO Twice the Shakespeare line has been given above as: "Nothing is good, or bad. Thinking makes them so." Not quite accurate, and I think does not give quite the sense of the original, which is: There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. Hamlet, Act II, scene ii. The word "but" may be understood as "except". This is a statement of what is now called relativism. Perfectly good (I think) philosophy, whether you happen to agree with it or not. Dave Oesterreich |
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13 Jan 04 - 04:25 PM (#1092130) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: GUEST Carlos Santana has some very interesting and often strange views of life, and is completely tuned in to some radical New Age philosophies, but I remember hearing some interview with him awhile back, and this quote stuck in my head. "Any time a person listens to music, it re-arranges their molecular structure." I think there must might be something to that. |
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13 Jan 04 - 04:30 PM (#1092132) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: GUEST,Martin Gibson How much do you really have to think about something like 9/11 to come to the conclusion it was bad. A nanosecond, maybe. Knowing what's "good or bad" or "right or wrong" hardly needs any philosophy by Shakespeare. |
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13 Jan 04 - 04:39 PM (#1092141) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: SmilingMusician "I think that it was Paul Winter that said that he finds that much of nature seems to sing in the key of D. Has anyone noticed that? I can't say that I can tell that much. " Actually, scientists are thinking that nature sings in Bb. Recently there was an extremely low frequency discovered in deep space that oscillated on the pitch we call Bb, but about 17 octaves below the range of human hearing. Also, I remember in college discovering that all flourescent lights buzz on a Bb. Check it out. The way this was discovered by me and the choir I was singing in is another story that doesn't need detailing here. |
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13 Jan 04 - 04:49 PM (#1092148) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: GUEST,Martin gibson If it's in Bb, please pass me my capo. |
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13 Jan 04 - 05:29 PM (#1092176) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: Uncle_DaveO We think it's bad; Al-Qaeda members think it's good. Thinking makes it "good" or "bad". Dave Oesterreich |
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13 Jan 04 - 05:32 PM (#1092179) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: Uncle_DaveO Or, to put it another way, goodness and badness are not inherent in the object, but lie in the perception. Dave Oesterreich |
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13 Jan 04 - 05:44 PM (#1092189) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: Amos Martin: It is possible that if you saw yourself as a long-oppressed Arab -- say, a Palestinian -- and believed that the West was populated by heathen idolators of monstrous and ungodly habits, you would think 9-11 was a good thing! I don't see it that way, of course, and neither do you-- but thinking makes it so. A |
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13 Jan 04 - 05:49 PM (#1092193) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: GUEST,Martin Gibson Many perceptions are hardly thought provoking. Screeching fingernails on a blackboard does not require any thought to be annoying, even by Al-Qaeda. We as humans have the ability to think. But human nature says we don't always have to when we react. |
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13 Jan 04 - 05:55 PM (#1092201) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: Ebbie Guest 4:25, that's great. "Any time a person listens to music, it re-arranges their molecular structure" I'm not really into "New Age philosophies" although I guess I came up with some ideas myself, but that is really what I was implying when I said that I "floated up the hill." I do believe that we, as a society, don't yet understand the mystery. SmilingMusician (great name!), I've also read somewhere that in a group of unrelated people, more singers can sing comfortably in the key of Bb. Interesting, eh? |
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13 Jan 04 - 08:15 PM (#1092313) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: kendall MB, I stand by my statement, and I will give you an example that you can understand. If a friend of yours says "You friggin' asshole" more than likely you will take it in good humor. However, if a stranger says exactly the same thing, you will be offended. Why? How do you decide how you are going to react? Now, can we get on with the original theme of this thread? |
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13 Jan 04 - 08:21 PM (#1092317) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: kendall The man that hath no music in him, or is not moved by sweet concord of sound Is fit for treason, strategems and spoils. The motions of his spirit are as dull as Erebus. Let no such man be trusted. (Shakespere) |
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13 Jan 04 - 08:56 PM (#1092334) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: michaelr Talking about music is like dancing about architecture. Anybody know who said that? Cheers, Michael |
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13 Jan 04 - 10:01 PM (#1092371) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: Walking Eagle --Smiling-- That is interesting information. Like MG says, I'd have to use a capo! Geart thought MG! Bb. I'm trying to think how many songs I know in that key. Not many, I'd venture. MG, you must play a stinged instrument. What is your favorite song that you like to play? I play Shenandoah when I'm finished practicing. Seems to be a nice ending song for me. We'll, back to trying to play this 12 monster. W.E. |
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14 Jan 04 - 04:53 PM (#1092802) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: GUEST,Martin Gibson Ealking Eagle I play guitar, banjo, and bass and sing. Currently I am the banjoist in a group that can best be described as "swing-grass" I am blessed with perfect pitch and have never owned a tuner in the 41 years I have been playing. I consider myself a high-energy player who pours a lot of emotion and feeling into what I play, especially what I like. I really have no one favoite song. I love to play stuff that is high energy bluegrass based, country with a beat, or good old rousing folk-era hand clappin' sing-along good time music. I usually have a problem with syrupy, maudlin, sensitive boy and his guitar folk ballads. I refuse to ever be a fat, old folksinger. |
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14 Jan 04 - 05:18 PM (#1092819) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: Cluin "I am blessed with perfect pitch..." My condolences. |
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14 Jan 04 - 06:21 PM (#1092857) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: *daylia* Whatcha got against perfect pitch, Cliun? daylia |
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14 Jan 04 - 07:06 PM (#1092898) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: Amos think he was just saying that since so many people DON'T, them as has it have to suffer through a lot of "nearly right" pitches. A |
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14 Jan 04 - 07:13 PM (#1092907) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: kendall There is only one sure way to avoid becoming an old fat folksinger; (assuming your are one)That is to die young. |
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14 Jan 04 - 10:02 PM (#1093020) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: Cluin Amos has it. Those I have known who have perfect pitch (or claim to) seem to spend a lot of time tuning and trying to get everybody else in tune. And if they watch a performer who isn't tuned to A 440, they can't enjoy the performance. |
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14 Jan 04 - 10:08 PM (#1093024) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: Ebbie Once upon a time I looked for the perfect guy - then I realized that if he were perfect he'd have no use for me. Lord save me from the perfect ones. |
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15 Jan 04 - 08:19 AM (#1093252) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: kendall I understand the pitch thing. It is almost painful for me to have to listen to someone singing flat, or playing an instrument that is out of tune. If you have ever listened to Lester Flatt, you know what I mean. He was well named. |
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15 Jan 04 - 10:24 AM (#1093333) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: *daylia* kendall, I know what you mean -- it is "painful" to listen to music or to play on an instrument that is badly out of tune (and cannot be adjusted easily, like a piano). A little bit out is okay -- makes the music sound "human" rather than computerized! But to be "out" say an eighth of a tone or more is a different story. In essence, music is mathematical -- quite the "exact" science. When two notes are at exactly the same pitch (or exactly an octave/fifth etc apart) the sound-waves "synchronize", and the tones resonate much more deeply and satisfyingly for the listener. It's like the two (or more) tones become one sound, amplifying one another. Poor intonation diminishes this effect, and VERY poor intonation destroys it completely. I think this is true even for people with absolutely no musical experience. That's why even those who consider themselves "tone-deaf" can usually tell when music sounds "bad" or "off"! For people "blessed" with perfect pitch, or those who've mastered "relative" pitch, it can become downright intolerable. As one of those "blessed" ones, I agree with Cluin that I probably do tune my instrument more often because I love that satisfying resonance precision creates. ANd when I am jamming with others, I do ask people to re-tune if they are badly out - because it does sound so much better! HOwever, when I'm listening to others it doesn't bother me at all if they're not tuned exactly to concert pitch (A 440), as long as they are reasonably in tune with themselves and each other. Perfect pitch has a few advantages -- like being able to play by ear easily. It has it's drawbacks too. I have to do a few extra mental shenanigans to play on a transposing instrument, or use a capo on my guitar, or sight-sing a melody written in one key but performed in another. On the guitar, when I feel my fingers playing a G chord but I am hearing a D for example, it's very confusing at first. Takes practice to get used to it -- and at those times I envy those "less blessed" ones who can transpose so easily. IT must sound exactly the same to them, then! I've always wondered about that .... Because I've been playing the piano even longer than guitar, my ear-muscle memory is even stronger on that instrument. I REALLY mess up on pianos that are badly flat or sharp -- like a whole tone or more out. If I'm playing C, but hearing Bb, my fingers automatically move to the Bb chord unless I do a LOT of mental "re-arranging". So I make a lot of mistakes, and sound like doo-doo .... it's a very weird thing ... I've been wondering lately if the musical "learning procedures" are different for people who have perfect pitch. What I'm hearing seems to be MUCH more important in guiding my fingers as I play than it does for others. ANy thoughts on this, Martin? daylia |
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15 Jan 04 - 12:25 PM (#1093439) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: GUEST,Martin Gibson daylia Much of what you say is so true. Having perfect pitch and the ability to hear where a chord change is, hear when you are perfectly in tune, is truly a blessing. Being able to tune a guitar quickly without any crutch is wonderful. I do not have any problem transposing with a capo. I also agree with you about others who are reasonably in tune. Most everyone I ever play with is very experienced and is not going to ruin something by being completely out of tune. I absolutely do not spend much time tuning and if you are one who does, you either have an instrument that does not hold it's tuning well, need to change your strings more frequently or go to a better quality string, or are not hearing things consistantly. I can't stand when a performer I am watching is not perfectly in tune. How can I respect their artistry when they can't even tune right? As far as the alternative Kendall gave to being an old, fat folksinger, I do not agree. Take care of your body, relish in your maturity, and rock your socks off is the alternative that I prefer. |
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15 Jan 04 - 03:15 PM (#1093542) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: Ebbie Frankly, you don't need perfect pitch to change chords as needed- or to transpose when capoed. I do *not* have perfect pitch- what I have is the ability to listen and respond. Perfect pitch sounds a pain to me. |
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15 Jan 04 - 03:33 PM (#1093551) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: GUEST,Martin Gibson Perfect pitch is a pain? Get real. Better yet, please tune your B string. I can tell it's way too sharp! It really has more to do with the ability to tune then to transpose chords. I watch people use their electronic tuners and not have the clue or the ability to tune right without them. I'm not knocking them. I'm just lucky I don't need one. I do not purposely try to amaze people with how fast I can tune a guitar by ear. I am actually humbled that I have the ability. Remember, I called it a blessing. |
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15 Jan 04 - 03:58 PM (#1093566) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: kendall I do not have perfect pitch. Don't need it when I own a Taylor guitar. Also, I have never owned one of those tuners. |
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15 Jan 04 - 04:34 PM (#1093585) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: Cluin I can tune a guitar quickly by ear too. I learned that before we had electronic tuners (as most of us did). And I can tell where the chord changes come in on-the-fly, and what chord to go to. And when someone is out of tune and by how much and usually which string. And I can sing a harmony part to your melody by ear right away. And I don't have perfect pitch. If I have anything, it's relative pitch. If you've got perfect pitch, I can play a note, any note, without you seeing it and you can tell me with no hestitation which note I am playing. Nice parlour trick, but not much practical application I've seen. I know when my strings are worn out when the overtone harmonics don't match up. The strings are in tune (according to the electronic tuner) but they still don't sound right. |
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15 Jan 04 - 07:32 PM (#1093708) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: kendall Had a nightmate last night, I dreamed I had a guitar with all B strings. |
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15 Jan 04 - 07:32 PM (#1093709) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: kendall Nightmare that is |
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15 Jan 04 - 08:00 PM (#1093727) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: Amos A guitar makes a strange night-mate, I would think, no matter what strings it has on! A |
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15 Jan 04 - 08:06 PM (#1093731) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: Ebbie That's a great slip of the tongue, Kendall! |
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15 Jan 04 - 09:17 PM (#1093769) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: Uncle_DaveO So, Martin Gibson, you are instead going to be a fat, old..... what? Dave Oesterreich |
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15 Jan 04 - 10:04 PM (#1093799) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: *daylia* :) LOL! Seems last night was prime time for Were they B flats or B sharps or always B naturals kendall? ;) Here's one practical application for your "parlour trick", Cluin. It's a familiar scenario in my life, anyway ... Two friends of little to moderate musical experience, one singing and one playing the guitar, want to work out an arrangement of a traditional song. The guitarist cannot tell which key the singer is in (or, what note she is singing) and vice versa. No other instruments or (external) tuners are available, and so their musical efforts are frustrated. Unless, of course, someone "blessed" with an "internal tuner" (the knowledge/ability to tell the guitarist which note/key the singer is on/in), happens to be in the room. And so, yet another "bastardized" version of a traditional song is born, and thoroughly appreciated. YIPPEEEEE! ;) Here's another practical application. You hear a song you really like. You can work out an arrangement of it in minutes and sing/play it for your own enjoyment! (Minutes? Yup ... or hours, or days, or weeks depending on the song. Sheesh Fool's Overture or Dreamer took a bit, on the piano) One more. You can avoid the dreaded task of learning how to read music well for years and years, and STILL do well at your music lessons. (As long as you've heard a decent version of the music first, that is ...) Thanks for your input, Martin. It's interesting to hear you can transpose easily on the guitar! daylia |
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15 Jan 04 - 11:37 PM (#1093842) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: GUEST,Martin Gibson Uncle Dave O Why be a fat old anything? Order a salad next time, Dave. |
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16 Jan 04 - 05:54 PM (#1094471) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: Ebbie "Two friends of little to moderate musical experience, one singing and one playing the guitar, want to work out an arrangement of a traditional song. The guitarist cannot tell which key the singer is in (or, what note she is singing) and vice versa. No other instruments or (external) tuners are available, and so their musical efforts are frustrated. Unless, of course, someone "blessed" with an "internal tuner" (the knowledge/ability to tell the guitarist which note/key the singer is on/in), happens to be in the room." The scenario you are describing, daylia, has little or nothing to do with perfect pitch. If a singer or a player can't tell what note - as found on the instrument- s/he is on, some basic education is called for. If the ppp is there to tell them what note it is, they have learned nothing for the next time. Try a different scenario! ?:~) |
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16 Jan 04 - 08:23 PM (#1094575) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: Two_bears There has been much rock music over the years influenced by classical music. i.e: Yes, The Moody Blues. ----- I like the Moody Blues very much! However; there is one MB song that turns my stomach "Ride My Seesaw". Now I like the group STYX, Dire Straits, and others. |
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16 Jan 04 - 08:30 PM (#1094580) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: Two_bears Walking Eagle, please pass the peace pipe! ----- Do you have any objections to using MY pipestone (Catlinite) pipe? |
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16 Jan 04 - 08:39 PM (#1094584) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: Two_bears Why do nice threads like this have to be disrupted by the likes of Martin Gibson, a consummate asshole if there ever was one. ----- I like Martin around. Just for the humor. |
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16 Jan 04 - 08:47 PM (#1094587) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: Two_bears How much do you really have to think about something like 9/11 to come to the conclusion it was bad. A nanosecond, maybe. ----- Gasp! I never thought I would ever say this! Martin Gibson is absolutely correct! |
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16 Jan 04 - 08:55 PM (#1094592) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: Two_bears It is possible that if you saw yourself as a long-oppressed Arab -- say, a Palestinian -- and believed that the West was populated by heathen idolators of monstrous and ungodly habits, you would think 9-11 was a good thing! ----- The Palestinians have no one to blame but themself. The Palestinians were offered a state when Israel was founded in 1948, and they said no. In the 90s; Yasser Arrafat was offered 99% of everything he said he wanted (including the division of Jerusalem), and Yasser Arrafat walked out of the meeting. The Palestinian (leaders) do NOT want a state. they want the destruction pf Israel, and every man woman and child of jewish descent DEAD. It is time the mainstream of the Islam religion to stand up and take their religion back from the fundamentalist wackos. |
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16 Jan 04 - 09:53 PM (#1094608) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: kendall This is supposed to be a music thread. |
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17 Jan 04 - 08:15 AM (#1094781) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: *daylia* The scenario you are describing, daylia, has little or nothing to do with perfect pitch. If that's your honest opinion Ebbie, so be it. Personally, I value a firsthand experience over a second-rate opinion anytime. If a singer or a player can't tell what note - as found on the instrument- s/he is on, some basic education is called for. If the ppp is there to tell them what note it is, they have learned nothing for the next time. That's true. What's a ppp? At that gathering a couple weeks ago, my friends did not want a music theory or ear training lesson. Nor were they paying me for my time. They simply wanted to perform that traditional song together at a workshop the following weekend. WHen I saw them about to give up in frustration because they couldn't figure out what key the singer was in, I helped them with that. And with the chord changes to harmonize the (traditionally cappella) melody. It took about 5 minutes of "coaching", and then they were ready to rock! (well, drum chant and strum anyway ...) Try a different scenario! ?:~) Okay .... You're about 8 years old, suffering through one of your piano teacher's long (and boring, for an 8yr old) inhouse recitals on a hot summer afternoon. A young man has a memory lapse in the middle of his Beethoven sonata. The seconds stretch unbearably out into minutes as he fumbles around with what seems like all 88 keys on that piano trying to find the next note. Between his angst and the frustration of the audience, you could cut the air in that room with a knife! Now, you can HEAR the note he needs in your head, you know very well what it is -- because you've heard (or rather, at 8 years old suffered through) that lengthy sonata quite a few times before. But you seal your lips together because you've been taught to be quiet at recitals, and sit and squirm and sweat and wait and wriggle .... until you can bear it no more -- then you burst out with "IT'S G#! PLAY G#!!!" Startled, he glances over at you, tries the G#. Lo and behold, it works! And he's off and running to finish the sonata ... and now you can get back to bike-riding quicker. *whew* Only problem is, now everyone in the room is staring at you like you're some kind of freak, and you're dying for Scotty to beam you up! So you make yourself real "small" and try not to make another squeak until the recital is over. Your teacher catches up with you on the way out the door, grabs your arm, pulls you aside, gives you this very stern look, and says "Don't you EVER do that again!" So you don't, but it takes a few years before you figure out why she was so upset with you ... Anyway, that's another first-hand practical application for perfect pitch -- getting "stuck" performers back on track. (So you can get on with your day!) daylia |
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17 Jan 04 - 08:50 AM (#1094798) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: kendall I would have cheered. |
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17 Jan 04 - 09:43 AM (#1094817) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: Jeri I suppose the confusion happens between perfect relative pitch and perfect pitch. Perfect relative pitch is when you can tell if a guitar is in tune or sing a harmony note that sounds right. Perfect pitch is when somebody says "I usually start this song on Bb. Would someone play me a Bb please?" and someone (possibly daylia) sings you Bb, as close as their voice is capable of. It's a memory thing. Some people learn what what notes named a certain thing and always played at a certain pitch sound like, and it stays in their heads. They don't have to work to remember - it's just there. It's fascinating to me to think about what makes some people able to learn what a G sounds like and remember that sound for their whole lives while most of us need a tuner or known-to-be-in-tune instrument to find a G. |
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17 Jan 04 - 05:27 PM (#1095082) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: kendall It's a mystery alright. Also, I have never been able to understand why most people can't tell a joke. To me it is so simple. |
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17 Jan 04 - 06:55 PM (#1095144) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: Cluin "...Martin Gibson, a consummate asshole..." As a card-carrying consummate asshole myself, I like Martin Gibson's contributions. Besides, one of my good friends is Clinton Hammond. Give me an honest asshole everytime. You know where they stand. And you don't have to agree with them, but they are a lot of fun to be around. |
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17 Jan 04 - 07:34 PM (#1095175) Subject: RE: In praise of music From: kendall "Tact is only noticed when it's missing." |