10 Feb 04 - 11:20 AM (#1113389) Subject: Origin: Mingulay Boat Song From: Liam's Brother I was on Barra in the Outer Hebridies of Scotland in the early 1970s. Stayed 5 days, went to a ceili, rented a car for a day. The highest point on the island affords a really good view. I was able to look south down the chain to Mingulay which was - and still is, I suppose - uninhabited. The islanders had been moved off about 20 years earlier as I recall. I've always been curious about the origin of "The Mingulay Boat Song." Virtually everyone has heard it but how has it spread from Mingulay (presumably) to everywhere else. If it's really from Mingulay, it must've been composed in Scots Gaelic, the everyday language of the Hebridies? All the best, Dan |
10 Feb 04 - 11:24 AM (#1113396) Subject: RE: Origin: Mingulay Boat Song From: GUEST,Dave (the ancient mariner) Here ya go mate....http://cityofoaks.home.netcom.com/tunes/MingulayBoatSong.html |
10 Feb 04 - 11:35 AM (#1113401) Subject: RE: Origin: Mingulay Boat Song From: GUEST,MMario see also previous discussion There are post regarding both the lyrics and the air. |
10 Feb 04 - 12:43 PM (#1113443) Subject: RE: Origin: Mingulay Boat Song From: Cuilionn There are at least twa Scots Gaelic sangs still sung tae this tune, tho Ah've nae kythin o how auld THEY micht be. The fairst sang Ah haird wis (forgie ony possible spellin trauchles here) "Mo Chailin Alainn" (ma bonnie lass, my pretty maid, etc.). The sang seems tae exist in baith Irish Gaelic & Scots Gaelic vairsons, as the context in whilk Ah haird it wis a concert o Gaelic singers frae baith traditions, an they chose it as a "grand finale" piece familiar tae both sets o singers. Ah'm tryin tae reca the ither sang Ah've haird... ma Gaelic's nae guid eno tae reca the hale thing, but Ah believe it wis ane o those sangs praisin a particular place, an the plaice wisNAE Mingulay. Ah've haird it at a few ceilidhs on baith sides o the Atlantic, an Ah think there micht be a recordin o some woman singin it somewhaur... any help frae ither, better speakers/singers o Scots Gaelic? Ah've been curious aboot this tune/sang pedigree, masel. Ah ken aboot the pipe-tune on whilk "Sir Hugh" basit his English lyrics, but Ah've aften wished for printit lyrics tae ony o the Scots Gaelic sangs that exist tae the same tune. --Cuilionn |
10 Feb 04 - 01:19 PM (#1113479) Subject: RE: Origin: Mingulay Boat Song From: Malcolm Douglas See the thread started as a sequel to the one in MMario's link above. Unfortunately, people immediately started to repeat the same misapprehensions already gone through in the original discussion, but some of these were cleared up eventually, and set of a Gaelic verses was posted. Not the "Gaelic original" of Roberton's lyric, of course, because there wasn't one, but another song sung to a variant of the same tune: Mingulay Boat Song again |
10 Feb 04 - 04:06 PM (#1113544) Subject: RE: Origin: Mingulay Boat Song From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca And Malcolm "forgets" to state that he supplied much of the information in that excellent thread he linked to. Thanks again Malcolm. Always enjoy seeing your name in a thread I get interested in, as I KNOW I'm going to learn something. |
10 Feb 04 - 06:27 PM (#1113625) Subject: RE: Origin: Mingulay Boat Song From: Felipa There is more discussion on earlier threads. Here is some info. from 1999 contribution: "The following information ... is from Ben Buxton. "Mingulay: an Island and Its People". Birlinn, Edinburgh, 1995 p. 47-48 "'Mingulay's most famous song - outside Barra and Vatersay that is - is "The Mingulay Boat Song'. But neither the words nor the melody originate anywhere near Mingulay; it is a romantic invention of the 20th century. It was devised in 1938 by Glasgow-born Sir Hugh Roberton, who was very fond of the melody of 'Creag Ghuanach', a song from Lochaber, which celebrates a crag near Loch Treig. He needed a sea shanty, and so he adapted the music, chose the romantic name Mingulay, and composed the words. It was to be sung in F, slowly and rhythmically. [Roberton Publications, personal information; Derek Cooper. "The Road to Mingulay: a View of he Western Isles", London, 1985]… "'It is ironic that this song should be the only well-known song associated with the island, and, for many, the only reason they have heard the name Mingulay at all.' "In his appendix, Buxton publishes two real Mingulay songs, in Gaelic with Englsh translations: 'Oran do Dh'Eilean Mhiulaidh' /'Song to the Isle of Mingulay' and 'Turas Nèll a Mhiùghlaigh'/ 'Neil's Trip to Mingulay'" Nice to see you on Mudcat again, Cuilionn! While you're right that the tune (not the words) of the Mingulay Boat Song carried Gaelic words, the song you mention was composed by an Irishman - who is still alive - who set it to the air he knew from hearing the Mingualay Boat Song. The modern Irish Gaelic song was subsequently translated to Scottish Gaelic. See An Cailin Alainn |
11 Feb 04 - 05:10 PM (#1114349) Subject: RE: Origin: Mingulay Boat Song From: Liam's Brother Thanks all. All the best, Dan |
11 Feb 04 - 06:20 PM (#1114407) Subject: RE: Origin: Mingulay Boat Song From: Jim McLean Please, please Cuilionn, don't use that dreadful, mim mou'ed adjective 'scots' instead of the real, strong 'scotch' or 'scottish'. Jim |
11 Feb 04 - 08:19 PM (#1114502) Subject: RE: Origin: Mingulay Boat Song From: Q (Frank Staplin) Scots- as in Scot-free? The Scotch always disliked being scotted. No different from anyone else on that respect. |
02 Jun 11 - 11:39 PM (#3164529) Subject: RE: Origin: Mingulay Boat Song From: GUEST,Martin As a boy in Barra we used to sing the song in Gaelic but I have never been able to find the lyrics. There were wild goats on Mingulay as I recall - we used to go to mind my father's whisky still, for the making of homemade whisky was illegal. |
03 Jun 11 - 11:37 AM (#3164740) Subject: RE: Origin: Mingulay Boat Song From: Seayaker I was on Mingulay in 2006 for three days. We were seakayaking through the Bishop Isles and also camped on Sandray and Pabbay. I don't remember seeing goats which is unusual as most of the Hebridean Islands have a goat population. They could have been removed post 1955 by the Barra Head Isles Sheepstock Co. who bought Mingulay and Pabbay. The rabbits are descended from domestic ones who were kept for food as they have different colour patches The cliffs on the west side are some of the most spectacular in britain but it's not a place to get caught out by the weather. One person I know was in a group who got stormbound for 7 days so you take plenty of spare food. |
18 Apr 14 - 12:12 PM (#3620055) Subject: RE: Origin: Mingulay Boat Song From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca In Feb '04 Cuilionn mentioned one of the songs which is known to be actually from the isle of Mingulay. The song was "Oran do dh'Eilean Mhiulaidh" (Song to the Isle ofMingulay) written by Neil MacPhee the Vatsersay raider (see above),after the abandonment of the island. Have found the lyrics for this song, sung by Maggie MacInnes, a Scottish Gaelic songstress. The words are found on a recording Leaving Mingulay, which includes many songs attributed to Mingulay or would have been known while it was still settled. The link to that set of words is Oran do Dh'eilean Mhiughalaigh
Oran do Dh'eilean Mhiughalaigh 1 Song to the Isle of Mingulay 1 |
18 Apr 14 - 01:45 PM (#3620091) Subject: RE: Origin: Mingulay Boat Song From: Brian May Ha ha makes you laugh doesn't it. The lyrics have nothing to do with the folks from Mingulay . . . . . . and neither has the melody! The version I like the best though is the Newfie group - Masterless Men, theirs is outstanding. Have fun . . . |
20 Oct 20 - 07:31 PM (#4076219) Subject: RE: Origin: Mingulay Boat Song From: Felipa re Cuilionn's mention of An Cailín Alainn, it is a recent composition, late 20th century. Written in Irish first by Tomás Mac Eoin, then translated to Scottish Gaelic by Art McCormack with Christine Primrose. I've found lyrics for Creag Ghuanach on line, reputedly the source of the tunes for Lochaber and the Mingulay Boat Song. Creag Ghuanach is a portion of a long tale of hunting, by 16th century bard Dòmhnall mac Fhionnlaigh nan Dàn (Donald MacKinlay MacDonald of the poems/lays), Òran na Comhachaig (The Song of the Owl) https://calumimaclean.blogspot.com/2013/09/hunter-bard-donald-mackinlay-of-lays.html http://www.bbc.co.uk/alba/oran/people/domhnall_macdhomhnaill_domhnall_mac_fhionnlaigh_nan_dan/ Wikipedia: "The 'Mingulay Boat Song' is a song written by Sir Hugh S. Roberton (1874–1952) in the 1930s. The melody is described in Roberton's 'Songs of the Isles' as a traditional Gaelic tune, probably titled 'Lochaber'.[1] The tune was part of an old Gaelic song, 'Òran na Comhachaig' (the 'Creag Ghuanach' portion); from Brae Lochaber." [Does anyone reading this post have a copy of Songs of the Isles to verify that this attribution is given in Roberton's book?] Lyrics with translation CREAG GHUANACH Air minn o iom ó ro, Iom ó agus iom ó ro, Air minn o, na iom ó ro, Is aoibhinn leam an diugh na chì. It is joyful I am today to see you. Creag mo chridh’-sa a’ chreag Ghuanach, Crag of my heart is Creag Ghuanach Chreag an d'fhuair mi greis de m’ àrach; Crag where I received my upbringing; Creag nan aighean ’s nan damh siùbhlach, Crag of the wandering deer and stag, A' chreag ùrail, aighearach eànach. The flourishing crag of joy and renown. Creag mo chrìdh’-s a' chreag Ghuanach, Crag of my heart is Creag Ghuanach ’S ionmhuinn leum an lòn tha fo a ceann; Dear to me is the pool below its summit; Is annsa an lag tha air a cùlaibh, And more dear the cave behind it Na machair is mùr nan Gall. Than a pasture or a hall of the Lowlands. ’S truagh an diugh nach beò an fheadhainn, It is a pity that today the people are no longer living, Gun ann ach an ceò de ’n bhuidhinn, Where now only the mist is plentiful, Leis ’m bu mhiannach glòir nan gadhar, Who would have had a keen desire for glory with their hunting dogs Gun mheoghail, gun òl, gun bhruidhinn. There is now no joy, no drinking, no conversation. "Creag Ghuanach is a hill at the south end of Loch Treig where the bard, Donald MacDonald (or Donald son of Finlay of the poems, as he is known in Gaelic) was raised in the sixteenth century. As well as being a poet he was also a renowned hunter. These are only a few verses from a much larger work of more than fifty verses that he composed as his hunting days were coming to an end." Tom Colquhoun, Largs Gaelic Choir http://largsgaelic.moonfruit.com/toms-tranlations-2/4590907532 |
20 Oct 20 - 08:39 PM (#4076226) Subject: RE: Origin: Mingulay Boat Song From: Lighter Wiki says the tune "Creag Guanach" is *from* Lochaber, not called "Lochaber." |
20 Oct 20 - 08:49 PM (#4076229) Subject: RE: Origin: Mingulay Boat Song From: Lighter But be that as it may, my copy of "Songs of the Isles" notes that "Mingulay" is written to a "Traditional Gaelic tune (probably 'Lochaber')." Roberton's song was copyrighted in the U.S. in 1938. |
21 Oct 20 - 06:31 AM (#4076262) Subject: RE: Origin: Mingulay Boat Song From: GUEST,Rossey As Hugh S. Roberton died in 1952, his works will be fully public domain in UK terms in another couple of years (70 years post death). However, people have been taking his lyrical adaptations and passing them off as trad. for decades. As everyone knows from this thread, Roberton's 'Mingulay Boat Song' is an original lyrical work, even if it was set to a trad. tune.. but with about 2 years left of copyright left in it, I don't suppose it will matter too much.. apart from recording the origins for posterity - and his descendants no longer benefitting as they have when credited and put through the copyright agencies. |