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BS: Statue of Liberty - name?

16 Mar 04 - 11:56 AM (#1138197)
Subject: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: TheBigPinkLad

Does this lady have a name?

16 Mar 04 - 12:02 PM (#1138210)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: Bill D

just "Miss Liberty" ...a representation of an idea. I have never heard any other name.

16 Mar 04 - 12:22 PM (#1138239)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: Amos

Me neither!


A

16 Mar 04 - 12:25 PM (#1138245)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: InOBU

It is a potrate of the artist's mother... what would Frued say about that... I think her name was Twiggy. Larry

16 Mar 04 - 12:29 PM (#1138251)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: GUEST

officially the statue is "Liberty Enlightening the World"

16 Mar 04 - 12:30 PM (#1138252)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull

Sharon or Tracy?

16 Mar 04 - 12:32 PM (#1138261)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: Wolfgang

what would Frued say about that

The answer to this questions comes from an anecdote/joke about Freud:

When an English speaking colleague mispronounced his name as 'Fraud' he said: You have been mispronounced my name as 'Fraud'. But don't worry, I take it lightly, I have been very abused by it.

Wolfgang

16 Mar 04 - 12:45 PM (#1138282)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: McGrath of Harlow

Not "Mamselle Liberté", given that she's French?

16 Mar 04 - 01:13 PM (#1138308)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: Charley Noble

Wasn't she originally designed for the Suez Canal and then given to the US when the French ran into some kind of political problem with the British? I could be wrong, and often am.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

16 Mar 04 - 01:21 PM (#1138315)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: Amergin

Gertrude

16 Mar 04 - 01:24 PM (#1138320)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: Johnny in OKC

"Big Mama"

16 Mar 04 - 01:27 PM (#1138324)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: GUEST,MMario

it has been suggested the designer re-worked his (unsold) plans for a female colossus

16 Mar 04 - 03:16 PM (#1138443)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: McGrath of Harlow

Is there any American equivalent to Britannia or the French Marianne?

16 Mar 04 - 03:20 PM (#1138450)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: GUEST,MMario

not really -

Officially the statue is just named 'Liberty Enlightening the World' which implies the lady's name is "Liberty"

16 Mar 04 - 03:58 PM (#1138478)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: GUEST,ClaireBear

McGrath, I've always assumed "Columbia" is our equivalent to "Brittania" -- and John Tenniel, at least, seems to agree with me, as shown here.

Claire

16 Mar 04 - 04:11 PM (#1138498)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: McGrath of Harlow

I think you're right about that, claire bear - as this page with various versions of the Columbia Pictures lady suggests. She does look a lot like she's based on the New York lady too.

My impression is however that Columbia as a personifcation of America has never really taken off, any more than Cousin Jonathan has. Never heard any songs about "The grand old dame Columbia" anyway.

(That Tenniel link you gave me crashed Internet Explorer for some reason...)

16 Mar 04 - 04:23 PM (#1138523)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: EBarnacle

A friend once told me that she's actually Polish: Miss Stascha Liberty [say it aloud.].

16 Mar 04 - 04:47 PM (#1138546)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: GUEST,ClaireBear

Sorry about that link, McGrath...it worked for me. It was a political cartoon from 1865 showing Britannia comforting Columbia. Nothing terribly enlightening.

Anyway, here's another one, this time to a WWI commemorative poster at the Hoover Institute: Columbia. Apparently the notion did survive into the 20th century, although it never gained overwhelming popularity.

But back to the Statue of Liberty. Personally I never saw the thing as a nationalist symbol per se, but as a human one: the goddess of liberty showing the way to a place where freedom reigned, not personifying that place. I wish it were true, but I digress...

At any rate, here's a quote from the U.S, state dept., courtesy of factmonster.com, along with the Emma Lazarus' poem that appears on the statue's pedestal. Lazarus named her "Mother of Exiles," as you'll see.

"The Jewish American poet Emma Lazarus saw the statue as a beacon to the world. A poem she wrote to help raise money for the pedestal, and which is carved on that pedestal, captured what the statue came to mean to the millions who migrated to the United States seeking freedom, and who have continued to come unto this day."

–The U.S. Department of State

"The New Colossus" by Emma Lazarus

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

16 Mar 04 - 05:17 PM (#1138569)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: GUEST,BIG ANDY

Ely i think or i think it could be cleetus

16 Mar 04 - 05:47 PM (#1138610)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: Rapparee

"...and her name Mother of Exiles."

Call her, then, Mom.

16 Mar 04 - 07:10 PM (#1138683)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: SINSULL

Cinderella Liberty?

16 Mar 04 - 07:17 PM (#1138689)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: GUEST,curious

I can't remember the name of the ilusionist who made it "disappear", but saw the trick and was flummoxed. Do any of you nearer it know how he did it? I saw the helicopter lights in the gap where it should have been, but I know it WAS a trick.

16 Mar 04 - 07:19 PM (#1138692)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: McGrath of Harlow

Miss America

16 Mar 04 - 07:19 PM (#1138694)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: McGrath of Harlow

Or maybe Ms America.

16 Mar 04 - 08:32 PM (#1138761)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: The Fooles Troupe

Charley Noble

I saw that story about the Suez Canal - it was in a documentary (PBS) that reached Australia about the story of the statue. The original stone sculpture that was the model is still in France. If you see the delightful French documentary about how the moon landings were 'faked' on the set of 2001 by Kubric, one of the characters is being interviewed in front of it (you have to look quick!) and mentions going up the road to some (unremembered at moment) French town...

Robin

16 Mar 04 - 10:25 PM (#1138804)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: GUEST

There are two copies/originals in France. Both in Paris ( which is lovely in the springtime.)

One is alongside the Seine and the other in the Luxembourg Gardens.
But both are much,much smaller.

17 Mar 04 - 12:53 AM (#1138857)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: Stilly River Sage

"Liberty Enlightening the World." I used to work there (when I couldn't avoid it--I was stationed at Ellis Island with the National Park Service).

SRS

17 Mar 04 - 08:08 AM (#1139040)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: JJ

No songs? How about, "Columbia, the Gem of the Ocean?"

17 Mar 04 - 08:19 AM (#1139047)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: Charley Noble

Thanks, Robin, for the reference to the Suez Canal fiasco. Maybe I'll dig deeper and find out the rest of the story.

Lady Liberty is a grand old gal and I remember fondly walking up thousands of steps to the top when I was much younger and then, while going down, telling those asending that they only had a few thousand more steps to go!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

17 Mar 04 - 11:01 AM (#1139149)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: Stilly River Sage

Peter Lind Hayes had a parody he sang called "Columbia the Germ of the Ocean." Hadn't thought of that in years (but I borrowed the The 5,000 Fingers of Dr. T recently so he was in my mind.

SRS

17 Mar 04 - 11:10 AM (#1139155)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: Chief Chaos

Since she doesn't seem to have a name I suggest we hold a contest to give her one.

My vote is for: Fred

17 Mar 04 - 11:13 AM (#1139158)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: mack/misophist

Since Fred Bartholdi, the artist, used his mom as the model, the proper name is Mrs. Bartholdi. The trek to the observation platform used to be much shorter. The first part erected was the arm with the torch. People paid a dime to go up and the money eventually paid for the plinth.

17 Mar 04 - 03:37 PM (#1139373)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: Strick

"There are two copies/originals in France. Both in Paris ( which is lovely in the springtime.)"

There's also a copy in Birmingham, Alabama. I really like Birmingham, but I've already seen that one. I'd rather go to see these two.

17 Mar 04 - 04:25 PM (#1139407)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: Stilly River Sage

Liberty Enlightening the World

Liberty Enlightening the World

Liberty Enlightening the World

Liberty Enlightening the World

17 Mar 04 - 09:45 PM (#1139635)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: GUEST

It should be obvious; her name is Liberty.

As in Statute of Liberty

or, Liberty Enlightening the World


You're welcome

17 Mar 04 - 09:48 PM (#1139636)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: freda underhill

i go for freda

(freda people)

17 Mar 04 - 10:44 PM (#1139660)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: Chief Chaos

Changed my mind! Freda, you got my vote!

17 Mar 04 - 11:39 PM (#1139686)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: The Fooles Troupe

mack/misophist

actually, the access dimes were only a minor contribution, the real money came from a public subscription started, I believe by a newspaper tycoon... :-) it was all in that TV doco I mentioned..

Robin

18 Mar 04 - 12:31 AM (#1139710)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: EBarnacle

As you go East from Harrisburg, PA, there is a copy of the statue standing upon a rock in the middle of the Susquehanna River. There are also a couple of copies in Manhatten. The one in Pennsy really looks good.

18 Mar 04 - 06:41 AM (#1139854)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: Ben Dover

Brenda.

18 Mar 04 - 08:38 AM (#1139921)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: freda underhill

Muriel

(you're terrible, Muriel...)

18 Mar 04 - 12:53 PM (#1140124)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: kendall

I saw that magician make Diamond Head disappear too.

18 Mar 04 - 01:08 PM (#1140143)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: Stilly River Sage

Pulitzer was the tycoon. He shamed Americans into meeting their obligation required to accept this gift they'd already said they wanted.

18 Mar 04 - 01:36 PM (#1140167)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: Blackcatter

There's a copy in Orlando too - it's human-sized and it's common for people to get their picture taken while fondling miss Liberty.

Of course, that's techncally called statutory rape . . .

18 Mar 04 - 02:46 PM (#1140229)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: Stilly River Sage

There is a small version of this statue at the beach at Alki Point in West Seattle. I think the plaque says the Boy Scouts placed it there decades ago.

19 Mar 04 - 09:04 AM (#1140861)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: annamill

Has anyone noticed that she looks exactly like Sylvester Stalone?

Love, Anna Hamill

19 Mar 04 - 02:06 PM (#1141097)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: GUEST,robert.darnley@phoenix.edu

Actually, the original model's name is Jane Chester Bartholomew! Columbia Pictures needed some models for a 'promotional idea' they had. She went and modeled but never heard anything about it. A while later, she watching a movie by Columbia Pictures and she sees herself on the screen, bigger than life. She never received any money for it, but she was on some talk shows several years ago. She's my Great-great aunt. I've never met her, but my grandmother knows her. She lives in the chicago area.

19 Mar 04 - 02:13 PM (#1141102)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: Stilly River Sage

I read that they never knew who that woman was (probably the studio answer). Do you have some citations that will take us to any of those interviews? This is interesting.

SRS

19 Mar 04 - 02:21 PM (#1141109)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: GUEST

We have a newspaper clipping from 1976. The Washington Observer in washington, PA (her hometown). I think my sister has it... I'd be happy to send it to you as soon as I can get it from her. I haven't seen a lot written on her.

19 Mar 04 - 02:29 PM (#1141119)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: GUEST

She was on the Mike Douglas Show back in the day. The only thing I've ever seen in print was this newspaper article I mentioned.

19 Mar 04 - 03:31 PM (#1141165)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: Stilly River Sage

GUEST, RE the OTHER lady with the torch, I did a little poking around, and found a couple of things.

A German article with images.

From a film trivia site this:
    Q.What do Claudia Dell, Amelia Batchler and Jane Bartholomew have in common?

    A. Each of the three women either claimed to have been, or was reported to have been, the model for Columbia Pictures' screen logo, the Columbia Lady, who first appeared in 1924. A fourth woman, Jenny Josephs, actually DID pose for the updated logo in 1993, and, according to Columbia (Now Sony Pictures) is the only bona fide, 'identified' model.


And a thorough article from an apparently defunct web site (Reel Classics) that I had to retrieve from Google's cache:

    The History of a Logo: The Lady with the Torch


    March 24, 2001

    The Columbia Lady as she appears on the 2000 Columbia/Tristar Logo. The "Columbia Lady" who has worn her toga and held her torch high for most of Columbia Pictures' seventy-five year history, has a history of her own, although the facts get a little fuzzy in places and are completely missing in others.

    The logo first appeared in 1924, and though multiple models have come forward over the years and claimed to have posed as the original lady, Columbia Pictures themselves (now owned by Sony Pictures Entertainment) says they have no records or documentation to verify any of the claims.

    In Bette Davis' 1962 autobiography The Lonely Life, she makes a passing reference to "Little Claudia Dell", an actress from the 1930s and early '40s, "whose image," Bette remarks, "was used as Columbia Pictures' signature for years." But there are others. In 1987, People Magazine reported that a Texas-born model and Columbia bit-player named Amelia Batchler had modeled for the logo in 1933. And a February 2001 article in the Chicago Sun-Times reported claims by a local woman named Jane Bartholomew, who worked as an extra at Columbia in the 1930s, that she was the model for the version of the logo that appeared late in that decade. Given the many incarnations of the woman in the logo over the years, it is even possible that all three of these women posed as Miss Liberty at some point, each for a different version of the image.

    The Columbia Lady introducing IT HAPPENED ONE NIGHT (1934). The logo as it appears at the beginning of IT HAPPENED ONE NIGHT (1934) is without clouds. The lady is featured with a dark bob and a kind of Cleopatra-like headdress across her forehead, standing (no feet or pedestal visible) under an arch of chiseled though square-shaped letters reading "A Columbia Production". She is draped in an American flag complete with the stars on her left shoulder and the stripes coming across her middle, supported by her left arm, and hanging down her right side. Her torch is displayed with a rather primitive, flickering style of animation emitting lines of light as rays.

    The Columbia Lady introducing MR. SMITH GOES TO WASHINGTON (1939). By the opening of MR. SMITH GOES TO WASHINGTON in 1939 however, the woman with the torch appeared completely different. Much more refined, ethereal and goddess-like, her facial features became less pronounced and she looked away (up and to the right) instead of straight ahead. Her headdress was removed and her hair swept back instead of hanging by the sides of her face. The drape over her shoulder became somewhat less-obviously an American flag, the stars on the left shoulder having been toned down in a shadow, and the stripes visible only on the portion of the drape hanging down her right side. "A Columbia Production" was replaced with the tall chiseled letters of "Columbia" running straight across the top section of the screen, with the lady's torch glowing in front of the "U" and clouds appearing for the first time in the background. A new form of animation was used on the logo as well, with a torch that radiates light instead of flickers.

    The Columbia lady as she appeared before THE GUNS OF NAVARONE (1961). In 1941 the logo underwent another makeover. As the new logo appeared to introduce ALL THE KING'S MEN (1949), the lady looked much as she had in 1939, only the stripes were removed, and the flag became simply a drape without markings, dark on the left shoulder but only the shadows of the folds differentiating the rest of it from the lady's white gown on her right side. The "Columbia" lettering was also modified in 1941, still chiseled but less bold, and with darker shadowing.

    Sometime in the 1950s, the Columbia Lady's robe was redrawn and shaded so as to emphasize the plunging neckline. By the end of the 1960s she had lost her slipper-clad foot peeking out from the bottom of her robe as it divided just above the pedestal. Also in the 1960s, the clouds behind the logo became concentrated in the center and more billowy in shape.

    In 1975 the Columbia Lady was dropped from the logo altogether and replaced with a simple sunburst representing the beams from her torch. She returned in 1989 however, smoother in appearance and with much less detail. "Columbia" became "Columbia Pictures" on either side of the base of her pedestal, and in a less conspicuous rounded font. Some even described the lady's smoother body shape as resembling a Coke bottle. (Coca-Cola had bought the studio in 1982.)

    The 1993 logo designed by Michael J. Deas. The logo's most recent overhaul was undertaken in 1993 when Sony Pictures Entertainment (which bought Columbia in 1989) commissioned illustrator Michael J. Deas to redesign the lady and return her to her "classic" look. The result, based on Deas' sessions with Mandeville, Louisiana homemaker Jenny Joseph who posed for him with a makeshift robe and torch, was a taller, slimmer Columbia Lady with lighter, curlier hair and a dimmer torch. Rather than use Joseph's face however, Deas constructed a composite face made up of several computer-generated features.

    Deas returned the giant chiseled letters to the logo, but the design was also updated for the 1990s. In the animated logo that appears before Columbia films on the big screen, the torch sparkles, the background clouds move across the sky, and a ring of light shimmers around the lady.

    © 2001 Reel Classics, L.L.C.

19 Mar 04 - 07:54 PM (#1141349)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: annamill

I'm sorry. I thought we were talking about Lady Liberty. I meant SHE looks just like Sylvester Stalone. Sorry.

Love, Annamill

19 Mar 04 - 08:02 PM (#1141359)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: Stilly River Sage

It was a segue into a different lady with a torch, is all. Another occasion of interesting thread drift.

19 Mar 04 - 10:13 PM (#1141419)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: GUEST

No offense taken! I took a second look and i kind of agree! I have a picture, though that might prove otherwise...

19 Mar 04 - 10:31 PM (#1141430)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: GUEST

I located the article from April, 1976. Not a very glamorous story, but germane to the conversation and interesting, nonetheless... I'd be happy to send it you...

By the way... My grandmother tells me that her nickname was 'Tootie'!
She's always been 'Aunt Tootie' to me!

19 Mar 04 - 11:52 PM (#1141456)
Subject: RE: BS: Statue of Liberty - name?
From: Stilly River Sage

I didn't mean you needed to pull out the papers--since so much is found online, it is typical at Mudcat and many other places to offer links to substantiate new information introduced in a thread. I went and found the sort of thing I was asking you to send. Now maybe you have a little more material to work with.

Are you here for the music discussions also? You should pick a name for yourself (or use your own) and join Mudcat. Another good thing about joining--if a topic is of interest more to a couple of folks than to the whole list, you can send personal messages or go on chat and discuss it there. Think about it!

SRS