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06 Apr 04 - 10:05 AM (#1155651) Subject: BS: Anti-Semitic attacks in Canada From: GUEST,C-watch Last week, some homes of Jewish Holocaust survivors in Toronto were spraypainted with swastikas and anti-Semitic hate slogans, and some headstones in Jewish cemetaries were desecrated. Yesterday, just before the beginning of Passover, a Jewish school in Montreal was firebombed at 2:00 A.M. The library, and all of its books, were destroyed. Globe & Mail story about the attack. Globe & Mail story with Prime Minister's reaction. |
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06 Apr 04 - 11:48 AM (#1155755) Subject: RE: BS: Anti-Semitic attacks in Canada From: Peace I truly hope both the RCMP and CSIS track these bastards down. These are certainly not the first hate crimes to be committed in Canada, nor will they be the last. But, our federal police have a fairly good track record with this kinda thing. We'll see. Bruce Murdoch |
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06 Apr 04 - 12:05 PM (#1155780) Subject: RE: BS: Anti-Semitic attacks in Canada From: Ebbie "The assault was not directed against the Jewish community of Montreal. "It is an act of violence directed at all people and one to which we must collectively respond." Prime Minister Martin's comment, slightly revised. Call me naive and trusting, but I cannot understand such hatefilled actions. Revolt against parents I can understand, revolt and disobedience against government I can understand, assault against someone because of race, religion or origin I cannot understand. |
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06 Apr 04 - 12:17 PM (#1155790) Subject: RE: BS: Anti-Semitic attacks in Canada From: freda underhill It's still happening here in Australia, on a regular basis. All schools, synagogues and Jewish community buildings now have expensive security, all year round, to protect themselves and their community against more even serious attack. |
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06 Apr 04 - 12:38 PM (#1155811) Subject: RE: BS: Anti-Semitic attacks in Canada From: MarkS A friend of mine in Toronto had his car vandalized and spray painted with "Jew" and other epithets. The irony is that this fellow is not of the Jewish faith, but that did not deter the cretins who did it. The Toronto police said they would treat it as a hate crime anyway. The incident kind of illustrates the intelligence level of those who would do such a thing. Mark |
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06 Apr 04 - 01:20 PM (#1155859) Subject: RE: BS: Anti-Semitic attacks in Canada From: GUEST,Obie Yes, Canada has it's bigots and this is sensless, or so it would seem. I wonder though if some idiot thinks he is attacking Isreal by this deed? Sometimes it is hard to live in peace, even in a peaceful country when some would use it as a base to fight foreign conflicts. I offer my sympathy to those in the Jewish community who have had the sanctity of their most holy season violated. Obie |
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06 Apr 04 - 01:34 PM (#1155875) Subject: RE: BS: Anti-Semitic attacks in Canada From: Raptor I, as a Canuck am ashamed. |
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06 Apr 04 - 01:39 PM (#1155884) Subject: RE: BS: Anti-Semitic attacks in Canada From: Rapparee I, as a human being, am ashamed. And I certainly hope that it wasn't self-justified as being "Christian" or "Islamic"!! |
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06 Apr 04 - 03:58 PM (#1155977) Subject: RE: BS: Anti-Semitic attacks in Canada From: steve in ottawa Ashamed? As a Canuck, I am puzzled by other Canucks who think they're somehow responsible for the idiot thugs who perpetrate such crimes. I hope the bad guys get caught. I know I'd do everything I could think of help catch 'em, or to catch someone I saw perpetrating such a crime. But ashamed? Gee, you didn't see Americans saying they were ashamed to live in America after the WTC hate-crime that killed 3,000 people did you? Shocked, yes, saddened yes, frightened, perhaps, righteously furious, yes, but ashamed? No way. Sadly, in some ways Canada is getting more dangerous. You can't drive up to the front door of the parliament buildings anymore. For a few years, they closed the Governor General's gardens -- she's not even allowed to take a vacation without an escort of two police cars. I foresee a day when security guards are routinely armed; that'd be scary. Canada has a better reputation than it deserves; the clan was very numerous up here (250,000? strong, but after the first court case, they just weren't allowed to go around wearing masks.) In World War 2, we not only confiscated Japanese-Canadians' property, we sent them to internment/concentration camps and kept the men separated from their families for the duration of the war. I think native-status Canadians didn't get the vote until the 60s. In the 50s, many natives had their children forcibly removed and sent to distant prison-like schools. As late as 1970, I think a black neighbourhood was unfairly expropriated (effectively wiping it out) in Halifax. But I'm pretty confident about Canadians. I haven't known as many people as some, but I think it's significant that I can only think of three people who might not immediately report such a hate crime, and two of them were born around 1900 and have been dead over a dozen years. |
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06 Apr 04 - 04:52 PM (#1156002) Subject: RE: BS: Anti-Semitic attacks in Canada From: Peace steve: I had a run in with a white supremacy group in central Albarta. Despite thinking they are garbage, which I do think, I find the 250,000 number too high. Lord knows we have our share of idiots, but I don't think we have that many all in one group. The KKK never got a real good hold in Canada. Bruce Murdoch |
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06 Apr 04 - 05:32 PM (#1156032) Subject: RE: BS: Anti-Semitic attacks in Canada From: Blackcatter Probably Americans up in Canada for codine and Moosehead. |
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06 Apr 04 - 05:35 PM (#1156038) Subject: RE: BS: Anti-Semitic attacks in Canada From: Once Famous As usual, these jerks won't get caught until someone starts to brag about doing it. |
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06 Apr 04 - 06:54 PM (#1156096) Subject: RE: BS: Anti-Semitic attacks in Canada From: steve in ottawa I can't seem to find anything about klan numbers in Canada. Despite the lack of lynchings, etc., I think the 250K is reasonable. They claimed 70,000 members in Sask alone http://www.usask.ca/education/ideas/tplan/sslp/kkk.htm Emmons and Scott spent most of early 1927 crisis-crossing Saskatchewan spouting Klan propaganda, burning crosses, selling memberships in the Klan at $13 a head, and establishing local Klans in several centres. Emmons and Scott made one final sweep through Saskatchewan and then disappeared from the province taking with them the Klan funds. With the scandal caused by the sudden disappearance of Emmons and Scott, the Klan in Saskatchewan should have lost its popularity. However, it floundered but survived under Dr. John H. Hawkins a Klan organizer from Virginia, and J.J. Maloney, a one-time Jesuit seminarian from Hamilton, who believed he had a mission to "denounce the errors of Romanism". Throughout 1928 Klan lecturers travelled around Saskatchewan and it is during this period that the Klan reached its moment of greatest prominence. Klan organizers claimed a membership of more than seventy thousand by the end of the year! While it is likely that this figure is greatly exaggerated, the Klan did raise fifty thousand dollars from membership fees and other donations in the province. They blend in. We had one klan member on our street. He was a busy-body whom all the kids despised. We also had one black family -- the first to get cable TV, and very popular with the kids because their kids could invite you over for that incredible treat: American Saturday morning cartoons. Recently, a clan-sympathizer ran for mayor, and hardly anyone seemed to notice (I suspect because she had no chance and the media didn't want to give her ANY publicity to her views). As for Indian Residential Schools, 1950s was too limited. There are pleny of hits on the web. Here's one quote: "The Anglican Church administered 26 such schools between 1820 and 1969" Stats Can says there are about 12,300 claimants with an average age of 57. More recent: (http://www.canadiancontent.ca/articles/031401reddog.html) By the spring of 1979, the Klan opened a public office in the Riverdale neighbourhood of Toronto. Although McQuirter declared the Klan to have over 2,000 members across Canada, police sources reported that membership was only about 70 and that newsletter subscribers peaked at approximately 200. I hope things haven't become too much worse. |
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06 Apr 04 - 08:06 PM (#1156152) Subject: RE: BS: Anti-Semitic attacks in Canada From: GUEST,satchel A good treatment of how unpleasant Canadians can be tho their fellow man (and woman) is Stanley Barrett's "Is God a Racist: The Right Wing in Canada" (University of Toronto Press, 1987). Klan, and other activity is hardly a new nor a diminishing phemonenon, unfortunately, regardless of Blackcatter's droll commentary. |
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06 Apr 04 - 08:59 PM (#1156179) Subject: RE: BS: Anti-Semitic attacks in Canada From: dianavan Its true. Canada has its share of nutballs. I, for one, do not take any responsibility for the recent violence directed at Jews. I certainly hope its not a result of the mid-east conflict. I would guess it is probably more akin to the popularity of Mel Gibson's film. Its that kind of sensationalism that seems to appeal to right wing extremists. Regardless of "who got the nutball riled up," I hope they discover who did it. The majority of Canadians, regardless of their political views, are not prone to violent, irrational behaviour. |
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06 Apr 04 - 11:46 PM (#1156278) Subject: RE: BS: Anti-Semitic attacks in Canada From: Peace I stand corrected, Steve. Thank you. Bruce M. |
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07 Apr 04 - 09:30 AM (#1156521) Subject: RE: BS: Anti-Semitic attacks in Canada From: GUEST,C-watch I, for one, do not take any responsibility for the recent violence directed at Jews. I certainly hope its not a result of the mid-east conflict. I would guess it is probably more akin to the popularity of Mel Gibson's film. Its that kind of sensationalism that seems to appeal to right wing extremists. Whereas this kind of act was typical of the extreme right wing, Nazis and their ilk, in the past. In recent decades, it has become much typical of the extreme left wing. Obviously, you have not bothered to read any of the media reports about this act of terrorism, including the Globe & Mail articles I linked in this thread's opening post. Here is a relevant excerpt: A copy of the message, seen at yesterday's news conference, made direct links to events in Israel and the recent target killing by Israel of Hamas spiritual leader Sheik Ahmed Yassin. "Here is the consequence of your crimes and your occupation," the message read. "Today, our target was an empty building," it read. "Our goal was only to sound the alarm without causing deaths but this is just a beginning. If your crimes continue in the Middle East, our attacks will continue." |
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07 Apr 04 - 09:34 AM (#1156530) Subject: RE: BS: Anti-Semitic attacks in Canada From: GUEST,C-watch P.S. Obviously, these terrorists are holding 5-12 year old Jewish school children in Montreal responsible for what is going on in the Middle East. |
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07 Apr 04 - 10:01 AM (#1156565) Subject: RE: BS: Anti-Semitic attacks in Canada From: Peace Or it's a different kinda hate group trying to put the blame elsewhere. Let the RCs do their thing and let's see what they come up with. MG said above that they may give themselves away by talking about it. I hope my Chicago friend is correct. |
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07 Apr 04 - 10:50 AM (#1156604) Subject: RE: BS: Anti-Semitic attacks in Canada From: GUEST,C-watch Op-Ed column from The Gazette in Montreal |
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07 Apr 04 - 11:36 AM (#1156631) Subject: RE: BS: Anti-Semitic attacks in Canada From: Big Mick Blackcatter, I don't know if your comment was tongue in cheek or not, but those are the types of comments that make the point I have tried to make in several threads. I don't mind pointing out, or having others point out, what they see as wrong with US policies and behaviour in the world. But this needless Yank bashing is crap. Most need to see the plank in their own eye. The real point is that we must be consistent, regardless of who it is doing what, and have consistent values. Anti semitism, racism, sexism, name your "ism" is almost always an evil, and it is enough to say that we must always stamp it out when possible. It doesn't matter where it occurs, it is just wrong. I have great empathy for my Canadian friends, as I know this offends their sensibilities. Mick |
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07 Apr 04 - 12:04 PM (#1156650) Subject: RE: BS: Anti-Semitic attacks in Canada From: Peace I am not in favour of bashing Americans, Aussies, Brits, etc., because a people seldom have a whole heckuva lotta control over the people they voted for once those people are elected. I have too many friends around the world to feel comfortable pointing my finger at 'people'. Governments and government policies is another issue. And I think that is fair game regardless: Canada, Switzerland, where ever. I happen to trust the Yanks. I have never bought into the view that Americans are arrogant as a people. I know too many who are not. I can say the same about Canucks. I am in agreement with Mick, but I would also like to say that I like Blackcatter. This was not something done by Americans, although I don't blame those poor deprived people who enter Canada to get a decent beer. This was done by sick bastards who will pay a price for their crime. When 9/11 took place, a fire department I was on in a small town in Alberta sent $1000 to New York's fire department to 'help'. A grand don't amount to a whole lot in the scheme of things, but it is something the guys wanted to do to express a solidarity with fellow firefighters who just happened to be American. It is in the nature of good people to want to help. That money came from the firefighters themselves, not from a department budget. I don't know of a single guy on any fire department anywhere who would not put it on the line for other people, especially kids. The guys never ask nationality, sex, colour, religion or language before they enter a structure. The threat to children is particularly onerous. On the bright side, the Jewish community will have the support of other Montrealers. Good people will stand in solidarity with them, and the RCs and CSIS will catch the bastards. Let us not make this a political issue. It is an issue of terrorism, plain and simple. And to them, the civilized world should give no quarter. Bruce Murdoch |
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07 Apr 04 - 05:41 PM (#1156959) Subject: RE: BS: Anti-Semitic attacks in Canada From: GUEST I think it's a little weird for C-Watch to characterize a pro-Arab, anti-Israel view as "extreme left wing." Many anti-semites will ally with any other political position that they can to bolster their position; this includes radical Islamists and others who hate Zionism in principle. Given this, they may claim to be left wing when "I pity the poor oppressed Arabs" is an argument that works, and they may claim to be right wing when "Canada for the Canadians, blacks and Jews get out" is an argument that works. It all comes down to hate, not left vs. right. |
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07 Apr 04 - 05:59 PM (#1156976) Subject: RE: BS: Anti-Semitic attacks in Canada From: GUEST,lurker After reading anti-semitic hate literature on the web, I've come to the conclusion that anti-semitism is a religion all its own, with its own ideology and conversion program. |
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07 Apr 04 - 06:00 PM (#1156978) Subject: RE: BS: Anti-Semitic attacks in Canada From: Big Mick I am right there with you, Bruce. And I think that you and your compatriots gift of $1000, when considered as a matter of scale, was a wonderful gift. And ditto on the kids. I am reminded by your comment of the little Catholic schoolgirls in Belfast being harassed, having things thrown at them, and being called filthy names by a mob. There crime? Going to a Catholic School. I am sure that I can find examples of this in most society's and it is sick. Anytime we can reduce people down to a "name" or "they" or "those people" or "gooks" or pick your title, then this crap starts. And I am quite sure Blackcatter, a long term 'Catter whose posts are enjoyable, is a fine person. All the best, Mick |
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07 Apr 04 - 06:03 PM (#1156979) Subject: RE: BS: Anti-Semitic attacks in Canada From: Once Famous Guest, you are right. Hate is the driving force. Sometimes I wonder if the hating Islamists can even rattle off three reasons why they hate the Jews so much. Hate on that level can blind all common sense reasoning. |
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08 Apr 04 - 12:31 AM (#1157195) Subject: RE: BS: Anti-Semitic attacks in Canada From: dianavan You're right guest C, I neglected to read the article you linked. I am sorry, digusted and afraid. I hope they find the cowards and bring them to justice. |
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09 Apr 04 - 03:39 PM (#1158078) Subject: RE: BS: Anti-Semitic attacks in Canada From: steve in ottawa Little update: The anti-semitic graffiti and tombstone-tipping in Toronto: -police arrested an 18 year-old and two 15 year-olds -18 year-old's name was Steven Vandermey which suggests "white"-power bigot -link: http://www.cbc.ca/stories/print/2004/03/31/hate_arrests040331 The destruction of the children's school library in Montreal: -increased police security -ling: http://www.cbc.ca/stories/print/2004/04/06/mtlschool040406 |
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09 Apr 04 - 03:47 PM (#1158089) Subject: RE: BS: Anti-Semitic attacks in Canada From: Little Hawk All these kinds of acts are despicable, no matter who they are directed against, and thugs are found on all sides of social issues. Some (and more than a few) thugs go after Jews. Others go after Muslims. Others go after blacks, whites, or Native Americans. Others go after Catholics, Protestants, Hindus, or abortion clinics. Basically, they go after whoever they are afraid of, whoever they feel morally superior to, and whoever they blame for their problems. A classic case of transference. I hope they get caught. They do not see themselves as cowards. They no doubt think they are very brave and bold. I see them as just very ignorant...and afraid. - LH |
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17 May 04 - 08:48 AM (#1187170) Subject: RE: BS: Anti-Semitic attacks in Canada From: GUEST,C-Watch Charges have now been laid against three people in the firebombing of the Jewish school in Montreal. Two 18 year old men and the mother of one of them. The reports indicate that the three are Arab Christains from Lebanon. The Globe & Mail report. |