06 Oct 98 - 03:58 PM (#40588) Subject: WOODY'S LUDLOW MASSACRE - INFO PLEASE From: Ian HP I would appreciate any background to The Ludlow Massacre by Woody Guthrie. When was the strike? What was the cause of the strike? Was Woody or anyone close to him directly involved? Any other interesting snippets? Regards Ian Click for lyrics in the Digital Tradition |
06 Oct 98 - 04:46 PM (#40596) Subject: RE: WOODY'S LUDLOW MASSACRE - INFO PLEASE From: Bert http://www.fortunecity.com/tinpan/parton/2/louistik.html |
07 Oct 98 - 11:05 PM (#40810) Subject: Paul Durst Interview - Art Thieme From: Art Thieme In 1961 I was 20 years old and I boarded an Illinois Central train to haul my 60 pound Webcor 2-track reel-to-reel tape machine all the way from the North side of Chicago to 57th street on the South side (an area called Hyde Park). There was a shop there called THE FRET SHOP run by Pete Leibundguth---a folk fan and instrument collector. There was an old man named Paul Durst living in Pete's back room at the shop. He was 93 years old. Had a long gray beard. I simply had to make some tape recordings of Paul because, the day before, he had told me he had been PRESENT AT THE LUDLOW MASSACRE! Now, Paul was born in 1868---and, for me, an urban kid, talking to Paul was like taking a trip in a time machine. Among other things, Paul could still play some fiddle & sing the old Wobbly songs of his union---the Industrial Workers Of The World--the I.W.W. When younger, Paul worked as an agricultural migratory worker---always with his fiddle on his back and hoboing from job to job. He told me he was sound asleep under the boardwalk in Chicago when the bomb went off at the Haymarket riot! He'd been to Europe with Buffalo Bill Cody as a part of Bill's Wild West Show! In Germany they introduced HOOF AND MOUTH DISEASE into Europe as Biill's cattle for the show were found to be infected! All of 'em had to be killed & Bill returned broke from the trip. (He was later re-financed by none other than P.T. Barnum--another great showman!) He and a friend had built a raft of Northern timber and taken it from Minnesota to Louisiana on the Mississippi River where they sold it for the lumber since that particular wood was rare in the South! Paul Durst's recollections of the Ludlow Massacre were that the miners, who he was with in the tents out of solidarity with their union's strike, were surrounded by the machine guns and 'something like a metal wire was electified somehow and when you touched it it burnt your hands'! All I can figure that might've been was something metal got heated when the "National Guard" set fire to the tents and everything. That heat might've been mistaken for an electric shock. It's hard to say... I've still got that tape. Later, after surviving a stroke and getting out of the hospital, Paul moved in with a lady friend. But that was the 60's---wasn't it? Now, it seems, only the president has sex! Art
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07 Oct 98 - 11:20 PM (#40815) Subject: RE: WOODY'S LUDLOW MASSACRE - INFO PLEASE From: Big Mick Art, That is quite a story. If I ever get to stop by and see you, I want to hear that tape, if you would be so kind as to allow me. As a labor organizer/rep for over 20 years, I am very interested. All the best, Mick |
08 Oct 98 - 02:41 AM (#40838) Subject: RE: WOODY'S LUDLOW MASSACRE - INFO PLEASE From: Joe Offer That American History in Song Website that Bert linked to is remarkable. -Joe- |
08 Oct 98 - 11:28 AM (#40882) Subject: RE: WOODY'S LUDLOW MASSACRE - INFO PLEASE From: northfolk The Ludlow massacre happened September 1914, during a strike pitting the United Mine Workers against the Colorado Fuel and Iron Company, which was owned by the Rockefellers. The miners and their families were kicked out of company houses, and in order to continue the strike they set up a tent camp outside of Ludlow. 15 people were killed by machine gun fire, and the burning of the tent camp. During the entire strike thirty three people were killed and many more seriously injured. As a result of Ludlow and a strike a couple years later in New Jersey, Rockefellers hired Mackenzie King, who later became Prime Minister in Canada, to establish the first "company unions". The workers responded by establishing the Oil Workers International Union, which effectively counterposed the company unions and eventually merged with the Gas Coke and Chemical Workers, in 1955 to become the present day Oil Chemical and Atomic Workers Union. I don't recall how old Woody might have been in 1914, but knowing the folk process and Woody's political identification, it is clear he wrote another outstanding song, displaying his understanding of both issues and people. |
08 Oct 98 - 09:08 PM (#40969) Subject: RE: WOODY'S LUDLOW MASSACRE - INFO PLEASE From: Art Thieme I'm pretty sure, without running to look it up, that Woody was born on Bastile Day---1912. That would've made him 2 years old when Ludlow went down. |
08 Oct 98 - 09:20 PM (#40975) Subject: RE: WOODY'S LUDLOW MASSACRE - INFO PLEASE From: Barry Finn WoW, 2 years old, & to think I saw my first ink pen at age 12. Barry of the thin blue line. |
08 Oct 98 - 09:34 PM (#40981) Subject: RE: WOODY'S LUDLOW MASSACRE - INFO PLEASE From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca I didn't know that William Lyon MacKenzie King was involved with this. He is famous in Canada for having had a great belief in seances, wherein he would consult his late mother for advice about running the country. I seem to recall that he was a fanatic about his little dogs too. His mom's ghost apparently didn't have much military knowledge, as she failed to warn him about Dieppe. It is ironic that he would have had a connection with helping Rockefeller put down workers' unions. His ancestor was William Lyon MacKenzie, a journalist (and eventually the leader of an armed rebellion) who had his printing press chucked into Lake Ontario for writing tirades against the Powers That Be. |
09 Oct 98 - 11:48 AM (#41041) Subject: RE: WOODY'S LUDLOW MASSACRE - INFO PLEASE From: northfolk Art, That Woody sure was one heck of a song writer, for a two year old. That may have been when he penned the lyrics for Take me riding in the car car. Tim, This may be a case where the nut did fall far from the tree, or the powers that be, may have been unacceptable to a journalist of conservative stripe. I know little of the past national history of Canada, and it's leaders, so I am technically just guessing on this one. |
09 Oct 98 - 01:45 PM (#41055) Subject: RE: WOODY'S LUDLOW MASSACRE - INFO PLEASE From: Bo Christy Moore does a good version of this song on his 'Prosperous' recording. Bo |
13 Oct 98 - 03:59 AM (#41470) Subject: RE: WOODY'S LUDLOW MASSACRE - INFO PLEASE From: skw@ In his biography of Woody, Joe Klein says about how the song came to be written: [1980:] [In late 1944, Woody] suggested to [Moe] Asch that he might even try a regular musical newspaper, with ballads describing the major events of the week or month. Asch was enthusiastic, and decided the series would be called "American Documentary". Woody tuned up for the project by writing several ballads about important events in American radical history, taken from Mother Bloor's autobiography. One ballad described the famous Ludlow Massacre of 1914, where National Guard troops fired on striking Colorado miners and their families. (Klein, Woody Guthrie 281)
On his CD, 'Rain on the Roof' (1996), Andy Irvine does a song he has written on the erection of the monument he refers to in the last paragraph, 'Monument (Lest We Forget)'. Unfortunately, the CD is available only from Andy himself at concerts. Susanne |
08 Apr 04 - 11:59 PM (#1157745) Subject: RE: Info Req: Ludlow Massacre (Woody Guthrie) From: Art Thieme Just a reminder: Utah Phillips used my recordings of Paul Durst as the centerpiece for his radio program called LOAFER'S GLORY (program #77). That program is available from Bruce U. Utah Phillips on CD. Art Thieme |
13 Jul 07 - 03:13 AM (#2101332) Subject: RE: Info Req: Ludlow Massacre (Woody Guthrie) From: InOBU Here is some more... with condolences to the McCleary - holding you all in the light, lorcan _________________ Last survivor of Ludlow Massacre dies at 94 By TAMMY ALHADEF THE PUEBLO CHIEFTAIN http://www.chieftain.com/metro/1183703953/14 Mary Benich-McCleary, the last known survivor of the Ludlow Massacre, has died of a stroke. McCleary, 94, of Morgan City, La., died June 28. She was 18 months old when the Colorado militia attacked striking miners and their families on April 20, 1914, at the Ludlow mining camp north of Trinidad during a labor strike. McCleary, her parents John and Dominika "Minnie" Benich, and her two brothers narrowly escaped death when the militia attacked the striking miners' tent colony. The conductor of the train that brought the militia members to the tent colony saved many lives, said McCleary's daughter, Bridget McCleary-Arcemont, also of Morgan City. "He saw women holding babies - probably my grandmother - and stopped the train before the militia could mow them down with gunfire," she said. McCleary's father rescued 3-year-old John while her mother scooped up baby Tom, who was just 9 days old. They ran for the Black Hills southeast of town. "They ran along the tracks just under the gunfire. When they got up there they realized there was no Mary," McCleary-Arcemont said. According to family lore, a 16-year-old boy from a neighboring tent heard Mary's cries and gathered her up into his coat before running for safety. The family did not know of Mary's fate until she and the boy were found several days later, hunkered down under the trees, still hiding. Mary was still hidden inside his coat and he was shaking violently. "That boy was never the same," said McCleary-Arcemont. "I think the ordeal just ruined him mentally." McCleary-Arcemont said her grandfather, who like her grandmother was a Yugoslavian immigrant, continued working as a coal miner until the 1940s. By then, the Benich family had grown to 14. "They were such a beautiful family," she said. "So loving. And all 12 kids turned out to be something. They all graduated high school and they all did things with their lives." McCleary met her husband, Abner "Mac" Fredrick McCleary, in California during World War II. He was a Marine. She was a riveter at Douglas Aircraft and helped build B-17 bombers. The couple raised four children: Bridget, James "Pat" Patrick, Karen and Stephen. She lived to see 12 grandchildren and 13 great-grandchildren. "Mac" McCleary died in 1977. While the experience of the coal camp massacre stayed with the Benich family, McCleary's daughter, Karen Adams, said family members didn't like to speak of it. "It was hard times, that's all we really know," she said. "They just did what they had to do to survive." McCleary's younger sister Frances, of Farmington, N.M., is the last surviving sibling. |
19 Oct 07 - 01:18 PM (#2174597) Subject: RE: Info Req: Ludlow Massacre (Woody Guthrie) From: PeadarOfPortsmouth Just curious... I haven't played this in a while and have been dusting it off to bring back. While doing so, I've been thinking it would be interesting to hear some other interpretations of the song since I've only got one. Originally, I learned this song from Christy Moore's version on "Prosperous", but would love to know if anyone has recommendations of recordings I could check out. Peter ps Art - I'm hoping to get a copy of that recording LOAFER'S GLORY...what a great story! |
19 Oct 07 - 09:12 PM (#2174961) Subject: RE: Info Req: Ludlow Massacre (Woody Guthrie) From: McGrath of Harlow Jack Elliot recorded it, along with a lot of other Woody songs. And of course there is Woody's own version - you can hear a sample of it on this link - Hard Travelin': The Asch Recordings, Vol. 3 |
08 Dec 07 - 12:29 PM (#2211363) Subject: RE: Info Req: Ludlow Massacre (Woody Guthrie) From: Bob the Postman I'm preparing a radio article about labour strife in Colorado, hanging it on the "Ludlow" hook. Two questions: 1) Did Guthrie borrow the tune of "Ludlow Massacre" from the Carter Family's "No Depression"? Or from some other source? 2) Did the Carter Family borrow the tune of "No Depression" and if so, from where. |
08 Dec 07 - 11:35 PM (#2211735) Subject: RE: Info Req: Ludlow Massacre (Woody Guthrie) From: Peace Bob, the following link may help. http://everything2.com/index.pl?node=No%20Depression |
09 Dec 07 - 12:08 AM (#2211746) Subject: RE: Info Req: Ludlow Massacre (Woody Guthrie) From: Sandra in Sydney Archaeological excavation of massacre site - Archaeology 57(6) 2004 |
10 Dec 07 - 12:47 AM (#2212290) Subject: RE: Info Req: Ludlow Massacre (Woody Guthrie) From: Art Thieme ARCHIE GREEN's new book---THE BIG RED SONG BOOK---has given a nice nod to the fact that these tapes I made of Paul Durst in '61 (when I was 20) are just about the only real FIELD RECORDINGS ever made of an active I.W.W. member who was actually involved in these extraordinary events from those early years of the twentieth century. I was amazed nobody ever had sought out these people who had so much to tell us about what went down! Like mountain man Jim Bridger, who sat on the porch of his daughter's home in Kansas City for 15 years, dying, and slowly going blind, nobody ever thought enough to talk with this man who was such a huge part of western and American history. ------ So very much does, seemingly, just get away from us... I'll come back tomorrow and type out what Archie Green actually had to say in his book's back pages. I felt it was very nice of him to include those mentions therein. Art Thieme |
13 Nov 11 - 11:42 AM (#3256218) Subject: RE: Info Req: Ludlow Massacre (Woody Guthrie) From: GUEST,Paul Durst I remember Paul Durst who used to site in the big chair in the front window of the Fret Shop on 57th St in the late 50's. I had no idea he was in his 90's. He used to love to tell stories and it seems like I spent hours sitting there listening to stories of the Wobblies and riding the rails. I cherish the memory of those days on 57th St. Alan Block |
13 Nov 11 - 06:04 PM (#3256432) Subject: RE: Info Req: Ludlow Massacre (Woody Guthrie) From: Bob the Postman Since this thread has been revived, I might as well put up a link to the radio pieces I was working on when I posted in December 07. Three podcasts about the massacre can be heard here . |
05 Sep 22 - 03:53 PM (#4152060) Subject: RE: Info Req: Ludlow Massacre (Woody Guthrie) From: Joe Offer Official lyrics: https://www.woodyguthrie.org/Lyrics/Ludlow_Massacre.htm
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07 Sep 22 - 01:59 PM (#4152228) Subject: RE: Info Req: Ludlow Massacre (Woody Guthrie) From: Mark Ross Woody got the story from reading Mother Ella Bloor's memoir, which was sitting around Almanac House in the early '40's. I think he got the idea for Calumet 1913 from the same source. I seem to recall that Mother Bloor was Will Geers' mother-in-law. |