To Thread - Forum Home

The Mudcat Café TM
http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=69121
109 messages

Martin Said to His Man

24 Apr 04 - 04:38 AM (#1169555)
Subject: Martin said to his man
From: Les in Chorlton

Fye, man fye
Martin said to his man
Who's the fool now?

What's that all about then?


24 Apr 04 - 04:42 AM (#1169557)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: The Borchester Echo

Fill thou the cup and I the can

Seems to be a blokish thing about who gets to drink the most.


24 Apr 04 - 05:13 AM (#1169573)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: Morticia

Kendall here. I believe it's a drunken lie contest among a group of soldiers. A sort of, "Can you top this"


24 Apr 04 - 05:17 AM (#1169577)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: Les in Chorlton

All good stuff. Is it dead old and full of strange meaning:

I saw thw man in the moon
clouting off St Peter's shoon

or is it just Victorian ramblings?


24 Apr 04 - 05:37 AM (#1169586)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: Kevin Sheils

I used to sing it years ago with Don Bonito. Didn't worry about deep significance, just treated it as a standard drinking chorus song that was handy to get the audience joining in.

It's just a list of impossible things you might imagine you'd see when you've had a few.


24 Apr 04 - 05:47 AM (#1169589)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: The Borchester Echo

Ah yes. Must have been where I first heard it, upstairs in the Enterprise, Chalk Farm.


24 Apr 04 - 05:48 AM (#1169591)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: GUEST,MCP

See also Wha's Fu' in Digitrad, that (=who's had enough to drink) being a possible origin for who's the fool.

Mick


24 Apr 04 - 07:39 AM (#1169630)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: GUEST,Charley Noble

And there are more revelations to come that we should endeavor to put into verse.

Charley Noble


24 Apr 04 - 07:42 AM (#1169632)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: Lanfranc

I learned it originally from Martin Winsor and Redd Sullivan, but, coincidentally, I also used to sing it with Dom Bonito when we ran Saffron Walden FC together back in the 80s and early 90s.

Haven't heard it sung for ages - perhaps I'll essay a revival!

Never bothered to analyse it, just regarded it as a fun singalong.

Alan


24 Apr 04 - 07:45 AM (#1169633)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: The Borchester Echo

Where is Don Bonito? Is he still singing?


24 Apr 04 - 08:16 AM (#1169644)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: alanabit

I recall Stillwood of Reading doing it unaccompanied in the seventies. I remember one of them said that Tim Hart and Maddy Prior used to sing it together. Who knows more?


24 Apr 04 - 08:39 AM (#1169654)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: Kevin Sheils

That was after Don & I sang together Lanfranc.

Countess, I last saw Don about 4 (?) years back at the Cellar Upstairs 25th birthday party. Well it was 25 years since Sheila started running the club anyway. He and I sang together again then having been old Cellar residents as well as the Enterprise. Come to think of it, maybe it was the 30th birthday party.


24 Apr 04 - 08:44 AM (#1169656)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: Kevin Sheils

Just noticed that Lanfranc used Dom, whereas I used Don, for our old singing colleague. It's true that Dominic was his proper name but tended to call himself Don when I sang with him, maybe it sounded more "godfatherish" he being of Irish/Italian extraction :-). I guess he must have started using Dom later.

He was still living in Saffron Walden recently.


24 Apr 04 - 08:56 AM (#1169661)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: The Borchester Echo

Wonder if he'll come down the M11 to Moreton Village Festival then?

June 11 - 13, everybody!


24 Apr 04 - 09:59 AM (#1169682)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: The Fooles Troupe

It's allegedly an old Scottish song that the English stole, stuffed up the words, and now claim that it doesn't make any sense! The English thus claim that the song is about stupid fools.

The alleged original had as a chorus "Who's fu' the noo?" - literally "Who's full now?" meaning "Who's drunk now?" The English botched it to "Who's the fool now?".

When you look at this, the things traditionally sung as being seen are those a drunk traditionally sees, not a fool.

Of course, a drunk may be a fool too, I suppose...

Robin


24 Apr 04 - 11:53 AM (#1169735)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: Malcolm Douglas

It's quite old as these things go, and was licensed to the publisher Thomas Orwin in 1588, though no broadside copies survive. It appeared in Thomas Ravenscroft's Deuteromelia (1609):

Freemens songs of 4 Voices.

...and in various publications during the 17th century. A different tune, with the "wha's fu' now" refrain, appeared in Henry Playford's Original Scotch Tunes (1701); this seems to be the earliest version we have from Scotland, where it also appears in a number of guises.

Ann Gilchrist (Journal of the English Folk Dance and Song Society, IV (3) 1942, 118-121) quotes examples from England and Scotland, and remarks on "...a confusion between 'fool' and 'full' (fou'=drunk) on one side or other of the Border", but draws no conclusions as to any "national" origin for the song and its relatives, pointing instead to the occurrence of similar songs and themes throughout Britain and Ireland, in most of the languages spoken here.


24 Apr 04 - 12:02 PM (#1169746)
Subject: RE: Tim Hart and Maddy Prior
From: MickyMan

Yes, Tim Hart and Maddy Prior definately used to sing it together on their immortal "Folk Songs Of Old England" recording (I think that was the name). This is an absolutely wonderful recording. Simply done with beautiful harmony singing. Before all of their rock influenced stuff. Is it available on CD?


24 Apr 04 - 12:35 PM (#1169758)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: Dave the Gnome

I'm led to believe that Martin's 'man' is in fact his master. Martin being the servant and taking the piss once his man has had a few too many. Can't remember where I heard that though...

I saw a maid milk a bull
every stroke a bucket full...


Cheers

DtG


24 Apr 04 - 08:21 PM (#1170067)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: yrlancslad

I've been singing it so long I can't remember where I got it from, maybe Hart & Prior way back when. I always thought Martin was the " boss" speaking to his man(ie. servant).
I saw a maid milk a bull
Every SQUIRT a bucketfull..... is the way I have it, much more sugestive


24 Apr 04 - 08:48 PM (#1170087)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: Once Famous

I just want you to know I never said this to any man.

First of all, Chicagoans never say the word "fye"

"Fry" yes. I have said that many times as they go quite well with a hot dog.

I would not ever even consider saying "fye" to a woman, either.

Thank you for reading this.


24 Apr 04 - 09:04 PM (#1170095)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: Peace

Montreal (specifically the Province of Quebec) makes the best fries. (Martin don't you even THINK of startin'.


24 Apr 04 - 09:20 PM (#1170100)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: Lighter

Both volumes of Hart & Prior's "Folk Songs of Olde England" plus the equally great "Summer Solstice" are all currently available on ONE CD from the UK. A Google search should turn it up.


24 Apr 04 - 09:41 PM (#1170111)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: Once Famous

Hey Brucie

Do they make fresh cut fries (not the frozen variety) that are not at all greasy and are a little crunch at the ends? These are the best I have found. Also a Chicago phenomenon is cheese fries, where auality hot melted cheddar, usually like the spreadable kind that comes in a plastic tub is pured over the fresh cut fries. Cheese fries, done right are divine.


25 Apr 04 - 01:19 AM (#1170201)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: Melani

We sing it at Ren faires. Elizabethans thought really silly, impossible stuff was funny (especially when drunk).


25 Apr 04 - 01:34 AM (#1170210)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: Peace

Hey, Martin. The fries I mean usually come from small stands by the sides of highways in Quebec. The stands are called 'casse croutes' (sp?) and they are cut from potatoes like right there (or at least within the past hour. They are deep fried to a medium-dark brown and served with salt and vinegar. Ambrosia, sheer and utter. (That is not steer and udder.)

Sometime in the future, you and I will have to get loose in Chicago AND Montreal to do the taste tests. However, it's beginning to seem to me that Chicago dogs would go very well with Quebec fries, and steamies with Chicago fries.

Man, I am getting hungry. Later, buddy.

Bruce M


25 Apr 04 - 03:57 AM (#1170249)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: Dave Hanson

They are NOT fries, they are called CHIPS and only we English know how to make them properly.
eric


25 Apr 04 - 05:48 AM (#1170294)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: Les in Chorlton

Thank you Malcolm, most helpful.

How do you feel about what Jinky Wells and friends thought they were upto dancing them starnge dances?


25 Apr 04 - 05:53 AM (#1170296)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: Kevin Sheils

I always thought Martin was the " boss" speaking to his man(ie. servant).

Whilst this seems a reasonable interpretation DtG's posting above with it the other way round seems more likely to me, now that I read and think about it.

On reflection in another use of the word "Man', in Lou Reed's "Waiting for The Man", it's obvious who the "boss" in that relationship is.


25 Apr 04 - 11:49 AM (#1170450)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: Once Famous

Fries are not chips. Potato chips are chips. If frys are chips, what are chips?

Start getting used to calling it fish and frys. Chips come in a bag.


25 Apr 04 - 12:30 PM (#1170489)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: Micca

what Americans call "Chips" are actually Crisps!!!!


25 Apr 04 - 12:57 PM (#1170517)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: Peace

One people divided by a common language.


25 Apr 04 - 12:57 PM (#1170518)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: Once Famous

No, potato crisps are not potato chips. The product called Pringles are potatoe crisps. Pringles originally tried to pawn themselves off as potatoe chips, which are described by The Potato Chip Institute (yes, there is such a thing and it is a powerful organization that regulates quality in snack food) as slices of potato cooked in oil. Potato crisps are potatos, mashed and then machine formed and then cooked in oil. Every potato crisp is the same size and shape. The Potatoe Chip institue actually made Pringles change the name of their product.

Case closed.


25 Apr 04 - 03:29 PM (#1170561)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: YorkshireYankee

Case closed indeed, Martin... as long as you don't find yourself in England. I can guarantee you that if you come over here and ask for "chips", you will *not* get a bag containing very thin slices of potato cooked in oil -- regardless of what The Potato chip Institute has decreed.

Also... if you ask for "egg roll", you will get...
a fried egg -- placed between two halves of a bread roll!

Cheers,

YY
who has been there, done that & decided *not* to get the tee-shirt


25 Apr 04 - 03:51 PM (#1170577)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: Once Famous

I'm bot planning on going.

I'll just stay here where 250 million people know how to talk English. And an egg roll can be followed by some kung pao chicken.


25 Apr 04 - 04:08 PM (#1170593)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: GUEST

If you go to Poland 'chipsis' will get you crisps and if you want what we English call chips you ask for 'fritkis'. Don't know why I told you that. Anyway, as we invented them, we can call them what we like - as can Americans, even though they are wrong.


25 Apr 04 - 05:46 PM (#1170683)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: The Walrus

GUEST (04:08)

You're Belgian?

Ducking and running very very fast.

Walrus

By the bye, to make the best chips (yes real British chips, not those anaemic monstrosities made from re-processed dehydrated potato substitute that get sold as 'fries'), the freshly cut potato should be soaked in clean running water for about an hour (or two to three hours in still water changed frequently).


25 Apr 04 - 08:33 PM (#1170788)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: GUEST,leeneia

Walrus, that is too much time, money and equipment to expend in making something that's not even good for people.


25 Apr 04 - 11:50 PM (#1170861)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: The Fooles Troupe

Real chips are double fried. The first deep frying seals the outside. They are then cooled, then the second deep frying cause the moisture to expand, giving you a crisp outer, with a moist soft delicous centre. The double frying also ensure that the temperature of teh oil does not drop, but is kept very high.

Real chips are deep fried in Lard. If it is done right, very litle fat is absorbed, because firstly the high fat temperature seals the outside in the first deep frying too rapidly for the fat to be absorbed. The chips are then removed, allowing the fat to regain high temperature.

The chips can then be kept for some hours, nowadays they even deep freeze them. The second frying, especially if they are deep frozen, produces magic light brown chips.

There are slight modifications for chunky, normal and straw chips.

Oven Bake chips are a different game.

The right type of potato is essential too - the big fast food chains have actually spent heaps of money to get the right sort of potato.

Robin
(A Foodie!)


26 Apr 04 - 03:21 AM (#1170942)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: Dave Masterson

Desperately trying to get thread back on course..........

It was very popular with Hartley Morris sessions back in the 70's. One extra verse added was:
"I saw a snail drive a nail, faster than the British Rail."

No change there then!


26 Apr 04 - 03:43 AM (#1170950)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: s&r

still on thread: we always sang "every pull a bucket full" with a nice internal rhyme.

Off thread my dictionary says that American is the English spoken in America. What are kettle chips???


26 Apr 04 - 04:07 AM (#1170966)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: s&r

still creeping - this is in another thread vive le difference

stu


26 Apr 04 - 04:59 AM (#1171002)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: Gurney

Back to the thread.

It isn't fye, it is fie. Like many old words in English, this has several meanings.

(1) True. (ie True, man, true)
(2) Predestined.
(3) A fairy. Don't quote me if you intend to sing this meaning in an UK pub.
(4) A facetious exclamation of disapproval (ie Crap, man, crap)

The Dict. of Archaic Words (1-2-3) and Collins (4)

I've always understood that I'm singing (4) but after a few pints (1) also works.


26 Apr 04 - 07:06 AM (#1171068)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: pavane

Thread Uncreep: The Dransfields - Rout of the Blues, 1970, I think


26 Apr 04 - 07:26 AM (#1171073)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: The Borchester Echo

Yep. But Robin and Barry recorded it as 'Who's the Fool Now?'


26 Apr 04 - 07:47 AM (#1171081)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: Dave Bryant

I like the verse:

I saw the Ale drink the Man . . . .
. . . . by the bucket and the can.


But I object to the verse that Hartley Morris used to sing that started:

I heard Dave Bryant sing a song . . . .


26 Apr 04 - 07:59 AM (#1171088)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: Dave Masterson

Come on Dave, cough up... what was the second line!

(If anyone want to pm me, I'll tell them! tee-hee...)


26 Apr 04 - 08:23 AM (#1171107)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: Once Famous

French Fies?

Then there is kettle cooked chips, my favorite, like those Cape Cod ones.


26 Apr 04 - 08:43 AM (#1171125)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: Pied Piper

Maris Piper makes the best Chips with the double frying technique above.
This variety was developed in the UK were we cook things rather than pulverise extrude and process in the cheapest oil to keep 100 million Americans morbidly obese.

PP


26 Apr 04 - 08:50 AM (#1171138)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: Dave Bryant

OK - I suppse that I'm thick-skinned enough.

I heard Dave Bryant sing a song . . . .
. . . It was too bloody loud and too bloody long !


Mind you, in some ways that's out of kilter with the other verses which are all about unlikely things - it's never been difficult getting me to sing !


26 Apr 04 - 09:05 AM (#1171154)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: The Fooles Troupe

Actually Pied Piper, it is allegedly a (French) Chef who was trying to cook potatoes for his Lord & Master. He boiled them, but due to some misunderstanding in the kitchen, they were well underdone and cold, and it was almost time to serve, but long enough for them to finish, so he cut them up, and deep fried them, then presented them as a special dish, the great ceremony allowing the extra few minutes to prepare them.

Another good story is that a 19C Chinese gentleman got on the wrong boat, and ended up in England instead of the USA. He made a living by using his wok to deep fry small fillets of fish and sliced potatoes (both were cheap for him to buy!) and selling them in the street, thus was born the great English craze.

Robin


26 Apr 04 - 09:12 AM (#1171162)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: Charley Noble

I've always wondered who the brilliant person was who composed this verse:

I saw a butterfly flutter by...
Saw a dragonfly drink a flagon dry...

We learned it from Chez Watts of Bristol.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


26 Apr 04 - 11:44 AM (#1171316)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: Schantieman

Since potato chips are pieces of potato cut into cuboids and deep fried, kettle chips must be pieces of kettle....


I'll get my coat

S


26 Apr 04 - 12:13 PM (#1171347)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: Dave Bryant

In an attempt to re-join the split topics:

I saw a spud fry the oil - fie man, fie.
I saw a spud fry the oil - who's the fool now.
I saw a spud fry the oil - before it was pulled from the soil.
Thou hast well drunken man - who's the fool now.


26 Apr 04 - 02:01 PM (#1171460)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: Les in Chorlton

I guess it's the kind of song you can verses to forever.

I don't know about the rest of you but enough has been said about chips te al.

Thanks again


26 Apr 04 - 04:28 PM (#1171592)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: Charley Noble

Let the chips fall where they may.

And back to my musical origins question:

"I've always wondered who the brilliant person was who composed this verse:

I saw a butterfly flutter by...
Saw a dragonfly drink a flagon dry...

We learned it from Chez Watts of Bristol."

Charley Noble


26 Apr 04 - 04:44 PM (#1171620)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: GUEST,Andrew

I saw a flea heave a tree
Half way cross the Irish sea

or maybe

I saw the Villa win the cup
And Walsall they did go up..

Andrew


26 Apr 04 - 05:19 PM (#1171653)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: The Borchester Echo

One for Kevin:

I saw the Spurs win at home
Which really made Arsenal's day

hehe!


26 Apr 04 - 05:21 PM (#1171654)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: The Borchester Echo

Bugger, got that wrong didn't I?

Meant to say "Spurs win away" Not that it matters as they're not likely to do either...


26 Apr 04 - 05:54 PM (#1171680)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: Once Famous

I saw a potato chip in a bag
but alas, it was crushed.

A crushed potato chip is not a loss,
alack, it is now many.


27 Apr 04 - 02:23 AM (#1171957)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: Dave Hanson

I saw the ' commons ' on Tv, fie man fie,
I saw the ' commons ' on TV, who's the fool now,
I saw the ' commons ' on TV, I won't renew my license fee



eric


27 Apr 04 - 05:48 AM (#1172056)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: Dave Bryant

There are quite a few morris side verses:

I saw the Squire buy a round - Fie Man, Fie,
I saw the Squire buy a round - Who's the fool now,
I saw the Squire buy a round - Saw the Bagman turn one down,
Thou hast well drunken man - who's the fool now.

I saw ***** dance a jig - Fie Man, Fie,
I saw ***** dance a jig - Who's the fool now,
I saw ***** dance a jig - He looked just like a drunken pig,
Thou hast well drunken man - who's the fool now.


and for the ladies:

I saw a lass dance Shepherd's Hey - Fie Man, Fie,
I saw a lass dance Shepherd's Hey - Who's the fool now,
I saw a lass dance Shepherd's Hey - Halfway through her bra gave way,
Thou hast well drunken man - who's the fool now.


And of course you could even have one for a famous notorious catter:

I saw old Spaw hold his wind - Fie Man, Fie,
I saw old Spaw hold his wind - Who's the fool now,
I saw old Spaw hold his wind - When he let it out, God how he grinned,
Thou hast well drunken man - who's the fool now.


27 Apr 04 - 06:23 AM (#1172072)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: alanww

As Malcolm Douglas says, it is a very old song. William Chappell in his "Popular Music of the Olden Time", published in 1855-1859 gives the 1588 and 1609 references that Malcolm quotes and also says that:-
"... it is alluded to in Dekker's comedy, Old Fortunatus, where Shadow says: "Only to make other idiots laugh, and wise men cry 'Who's the fool now?' " which is the burden of every verse. It is thought to be a satire upon those who tell wonderful stories."
And there are still a few of such people about today!
"I saw the man in the moon ...!"
Alan


27 Apr 04 - 06:38 AM (#1172085)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: Pied Piper

I saw PP being un-sarcastic
I saw PP being un-sarcastic
I saw PP being un-sarcastic
And wearing trousers without elastic


27 Apr 04 - 01:47 PM (#1172469)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: GUEST,Kate

I just wanted to thank Lighter for mentioning the compilation CD of Folk Songs of Old England and Summer Solstice. It's called Heydays and is available from Amazon.com. I've ordered it and happily anticipate its arrival! Yay!


27 Apr 04 - 04:51 PM (#1172646)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: Les in Chorlton

Ok, I love this song and maybe it's longevity and renewell and evidenced here, chips, fries or whatever


27 Apr 04 - 08:04 PM (#1172790)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: Barbara

Charley, I don't know about the provenance of that verse, though I could suspect yourself as the author, sounds just like your kind of silliness, and it doesn't scan. Or at least you really have to work to get three sylables per note. It is fun, though. Possibly if you drop the "Saw" off the dragonfly part, you don't end up sounding like your mouth is quite so full of feathers.
Blessings,
Barbara


27 Apr 04 - 10:20 PM (#1172884)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: The Fooles Troupe

Barbara,

I sympathise with you.

The SCA (when I was involved) used this song as a base to sing in public many impromptu verses about events and people that happened during its regular gatherings.

Robin


28 Apr 04 - 12:35 AM (#1172915)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: Lil Dog Turpy

Funny, this almost became my theme song when I started singing it about 6 months ago. Calls of "the martin song!" Here's a few verses I've added

I saw ***** drink a sprite,
He stays sober every night

I saw ***** miss a note
My mistake, of course (s)he won't

I heard ***** sing a song
But the lyrics were so suggestive I couldn't possibly sing them for you here ....
(yes I know it doesn't scan)

What is that goaty smell
With ****'s bodhran around we sure can tell


and as a Brit who's now in Quebec I can vouch for the Qubec Chip (fry). They make a fine quality product here, but then insist on covering it in curd cheese and the most disgusting gravy you've ever seen and calling it Poutine!


28 Apr 04 - 01:52 PM (#1173321)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: GUEST,Melani

For the guy in our Ren faire guild who thinks it's funny to run up and down the parade grabbing at rear ends:

I thought I saw a six-foot goose,
Look out, Marty's on the loose.


28 Apr 04 - 10:31 PM (#1173705)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: Charley Noble

Barbara-

I can't take credit for the "Saw a dragon fly drink a flagon dry." At one point I ran across a reference to the lines appropriately enough in a column by Richard Lederer, a reference that dated to the mid 19th century, but the column has gone astray.

Another verse that probably came from the same source was:

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me...
Than a frontal lobotomy...

There's a term for this kind of word game.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


29 Apr 04 - 12:59 AM (#1173778)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: LadyJean

The traditional version says "I saw a snail drive a nail from Penzance up to Hale" I was delighted to discover, when we were in Cornwall, that Hale is the next town on the line after Penzance. Though I didn't see any snails driving nails.

I heard a speech from a Bush fie man fie
I heard a speech from a Bush, who's the fool now.
I heard a speech from a Bush. Every word made me blush.
Thou hast well drunken man, who's the fool now.


29 Apr 04 - 03:58 PM (#1174346)
Subject: RE: Martin said to his man
From: Bentley

I sometimes sing this one and often add a verse or two relating to an article of topical news.e.g. I saw Prince Charles on the dance floor;repeat;repeat;dancing with a Brazilian whore.Get the idea?


30 Jul 04 - 10:51 AM (#1237144)
Subject: lyrics required..please
From: GUEST,Ann Brady

Hi, there is a song driving me mad....... I need to know if I have all the words. I know 3 verses but am sure there are more. I have heard it sung many years ago here in ireland, but feel it may be of english origin. Any info. lyrics, recordings etc appreciated.
This is how it starts;
    Old Martin says to his wan, fi man fi,
    Old Martin says to his one who's the fool now?
    Old Martin says to his wan(one) fill up a cup and I'll have some,
    Thou art a drunken fool who's the fool now.

    I saw the flea hurl the tree............
    45 miles out to sea thou art a .......

    I saw the maid milk the bull.........
    Fill up a cup til it was full, thou art etc.
Thanks for your interest,
Happy singing!!


30 Jul 04 - 11:11 AM (#1237156)
Subject: RE: lyrics required..please
From: muppett

A couple of verses I sing in this song,

I saw a Bull milk a maid ...............
Should have heard the commotion they made ..........


I saw a man dead in bed ..................
Cause he'd bin supping Watney's Red ..................


30 Jul 04 - 01:55 PM (#1237264)
Subject: RE: lyrics required..please (Martin said to his man..)
From: Leadfingers

If you put Martin Said To His Man in the search box you will find all the verses that matter . Then Add Muppets couple and this one :-

I saw a Butterfly Flutter By
And A Dragonfly Drink a Flagon dry

And you have more than enough for one song , even in Ireland .


30 Jul 04 - 02:21 PM (#1237283)
Subject: RE: lyrics required..please (Martin said to his man..)
From: Rozza

I rather liked the verse that went:

I saw a bottle in front of me
Fie man fie
I saw the bottle in front of me
Who's the fool now?
I saw the bottle in front of me
Better than frontal lebotomy!
Thou has well drunken man
Who's the fool now


30 Jul 04 - 11:21 PM (#1237624)
Subject: RE: lyrics required..please (Martin said to his man..)
From: Padre

An old verse from the FSGW Getaways:

I saw [here fill in the name of a person at the session] buy a round
Saw [yet another name here] turn it down

Thou hast well drunken man, who's the fool now.


14 Feb 07 - 09:38 PM (#1968085)
Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: GUEST,barely barley

Can anyone help me with the chords to this tune?


09 May 10 - 03:10 AM (#2902952)
Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: CapriUni

Refreshing this thread after a coon's age, I know.

The tune to this song (as gathered from the midi in the DT) was in my head early, as I was just waking from a dream. ...It's been stuck there as an earworm, ever since.

One could certainly have a much worse fate.

Elizabethans thought really silly, impossible stuff was funny (especially when drunk).

I've been witness, on several occasions in my life, to drunken 20th and 21at Century Americans (and Brits), and can say with confidence that the same holds true for them, as well.


09 May 10 - 06:16 AM (#2902988)
Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: Leadfingers

Very true C U - Why be sensible when you have a chance to be VERY silly


09 May 10 - 08:52 AM (#2903022)
Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: Phil Edwards

This is probably of no interest to anyone but me, but this was the first folk song I ever learned from another singer. The year was 1976, the singer was this guy called Rob who was a mate of my friend Steve & ran a close-harmony unaccompanied équipe with the awful name of Eyesteel Span, and I picked up most of the tune OK but had terrible trouble getting the extra drop down to drun-ken, man. That did for my career as a young folkie - that, and my inability to sing harmony, and the fact that he wasn't actually auditioning me so much as filling in time before Steve turned up. The following year punk happened, and I cut my hair and forgot all about the Eng. Trad.


09 May 10 - 08:58 AM (#2903023)
Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: Les in Chorlton

I seem to remember it was the first or possibly second song you sang at the Beech - and a grand song with great choruses rang out

L in C#


09 May 10 - 05:48 PM (#2903310)
Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: Phil Edwards

Indeed 'twas. I'd never heard anything like it, never mind started anything like it. A very fine night, & the first of many for me.


09 May 10 - 06:28 PM (#2903334)
Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: GUEST

Memories of the Horse and Jockey, Waddington (near Lincoln) in the early 1970's. It became almost a tradition that the guest of the night would do this as their final encore with the floorsingers adding verses.

Steve


16 Jul 17 - 06:43 AM (#3866367)
Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: Steve Howlett

I'm thinking of reviving this at my local folk club. The new landlord is called Martin, and last Friday he got drunk and landed on his a**e. It usually takes them a few months to settle in before they do that, but he's only been in the job a week!

Anyway, the way I interpret the words is that Martin is telling his servant to fill the cup with wine, while he p1sses in the can in the corner. I may even do a gesture suggesting this. After all, the song dates from 1609, when folks were lewder and songs were ruder.

Contemporary satirical verses are always welcome:

I heard Ms Theresa May
Saying that she's here to stay.


16 Jul 17 - 07:07 AM (#3866371)
Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: sapper82

The Oyster at Butley, near Woodbridge in the summer of 1972 comes to mind.


16 Jul 17 - 07:53 AM (#3866377)
Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: Steve Shaw

In another recent thread I was reminded of my very first experience of folk singing, as a student at the Buck Inn, Malham, in 1970. This thread has reminded me that this was another of the songs sung there. Cheers!


16 Jul 17 - 01:01 PM (#3866415)
Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: Lighter

> 1609, when folks were lewder and songs were ruder.

Probably not true.

See any collection of rugby songs.


16 Jul 17 - 01:20 PM (#3866420)
Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: GUEST,Senoufou

'Clouting' means 'mending'. So the Man in the Moon was mending St Peter's shoes.

'Fie' is an expression of disgust or disapproval. I'd translate, "Fie man, fie!" as "Don't be so bloody daft mate!"

We hollered this song out in the folk club in Edinburgh in the early sixties. Everyone was a Scot, but we definitely sang, "Who's the fool now?" and not "Wha's fu' the noo?"

I did often hear the word fu' (meaning drunk), especially among those from Fife.


16 Jul 17 - 03:24 PM (#3866432)
Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: Steve Gardham

Similar 'impossibilities' songs and rhymes have been common in all ages since the 16th century and probably well before that. 'Paddy Backwards' is another which has been running for nearly 3 centuries. They overlap somewhat with nonsense songs. Rhymes like 'I went to the pictures tomorrow'.


16 Jul 17 - 03:52 PM (#3866437)
Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: GMGough

> Clouting' means 'mending'.
> So the Man in the Moon was mending St Peter's shoes.

If the Man in the Moon was Henry VIII, then does "clouting off"
mean dissociating with the catholic church; or does it mean
mending the church in order that it will accede to Henry's demands.

Some years ago I asked Maddy Prior about this verse after a Steeleye
Show. Maddy said come back later. The band and audience stragglers
including me adjourned to the bar. Later in a more quiet moment I
asked again. Maddy said that it referred to Henry VIII and the Pope.


16 Jul 17 - 06:25 PM (#3866455)
Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: Steve Gardham

Or not! Interesting piece of conjecture but the 4 standard verses are all simple impossibilities. Chappell thought it simply 'a satire on those who tell wonderful stories' (possibly about Henry and the Pope) and this is more likely to happen when the storyteller is a drunken fool.


16 Jul 17 - 09:36 PM (#3866473)
Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: Greg F.

Think you'll find that "can" or "cann" is an 18th century term for a tankard-like drinking vessel but without a lid.

Nowt to do with pissing in the corner.


17 Jul 17 - 05:25 AM (#3866507)
Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: Snuffy

"Come put your wine in glasses, put your cider in an old tin can, put John Barleycorn in a nut-brown bowl and he'll prove the strongest man"


17 Jul 17 - 06:19 AM (#3866518)
Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: vectis

This verse is seldom sung
The red rose he went to France
To teach the lily how to dance.

I think it refers to either Crecy or Agincourt.


17 Jul 17 - 06:51 AM (#3866534)
Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: Snuffy

If the rest of the song refers to Henry VIII, then that verse could well refer to the Field of the Cloth of Gold in 1520


17 Jul 17 - 09:22 AM (#3866574)
Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: Steve Gardham

BUT, the rest of the song doesn't refer to Henry VIII. The original song might well have had political referents but as it came down to us it's just a bit of fun.


17 Jul 17 - 09:31 AM (#3866577)
Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: Tootler

My Aberdonian grandmother sometimes used to refer to clothes as "clouties" (pronounce "ou" as "oo") and where my wife comes from there's a saying "Ne'er cast a clout till May be out"

In both cases "clout" basically means cloth so the reference to Field of the Cloth of Gold seems quite feasible.


17 Jul 17 - 09:45 AM (#3866581)
Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: Steve Gardham

In previous centuries along with riddle competitions, singing competitions, drinking competitions, lying competitions were common forms of entertainment. Nowadays we put the whole lot together and just call it politics.


17 Jul 17 - 09:47 AM (#3866583)
Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: Steve Gardham

Century!


17 Jul 17 - 10:51 AM (#3866604)
Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: GUEST

i just sing it for fun! Learned it from Pete Quinn back in the old "Tipperary Pub" days in Detroit.


17 Jul 17 - 12:17 PM (#3866627)
Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: GUEST,CJB

I saw a ram butt a dam - fi man fi
I saw a ram butt a dam - whose the fool now?
I saw a ram butt a dam - and a bee swim in jam
Thou hast well drunken man - whose the fool now?

====

I saw a whale chase a snail ...

Faster than by British Rail

====

I saw a sheep shearing corn ...

And a cuckold blow his horn

====


18 Jul 17 - 02:44 AM (#3866736)
Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: BobL

This will probably be lost on anyone under 50:
    I heard a swan loudly call
    Channel one-four, wall to wall


And again a touch of history:
    I saw **** buy a round
    and get change from a pound


18 Jul 17 - 01:53 PM (#3866887)
Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: Lighter

Saw a hare chase a bear,
Twenty miles in the air.


18 Jul 17 - 02:50 PM (#3866906)
Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: Steve Gardham

Saw Great Harry smoking dope,
Said his dealer was the Pope.


18 Jul 17 - 04:09 PM (#3866931)
Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: GUEST,CJB

Saw a hare chase a hound ...

50 (or 20) miles above the ground ...

===

Saw the man in the Moon ...

A cloutin' of St.Peter's shoon

====

Saw the cheese eat the rat ...

And a mouse chase a cat ...

===


18 Jul 17 - 07:03 PM (#3866984)
Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: Lighter

CJB, my hare/bear couplet is clearly an ex. of the "folk process," furthered by me,since I was trying to recall something I'd heard decades ago.


19 Jul 17 - 06:37 AM (#3867077)
Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: GUEST,Phil Edwards

I saw Les Jones debate with Diane Easby,
Saw Malcolm Douglas correct them both...

I can't actually make out Les's voice, but he's in here somewhere (as is Ged Gaskell, who left us last year). Absent friends...

https://philedwards.bandcamp.com/track/whos-the-fool-now


19 Jul 17 - 06:47 AM (#3867079)
Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: Phil Edwards

Oops - blue clicky gone weird.

How's this?

Who's the fool now?