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27 May 04 - 05:37 AM (#1194731) Subject: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: greg stephens A huge fire in a warehouse has destroyed many key works of modern British art, including Tracy Emin's "Loitering Within Tent" and Damien Hirst's "Sliced Wombat Enjoying the Ineffable Boredom of Contemplation". Britain's towns have become strange, silent places. An eerie calm prevails, only broken by the sound of muffled sobbing. Small groups of people huddle at street corners, ashen-faced, whispering words of support to their fellows. The sad piles of wilting flowers grow, stacked against the railing outside art galleries. It is going to be a long time before the nation can achieve closure, and move on from this communal outpouring of grief. |
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27 May 04 - 05:43 AM (#1194734) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: Ellenpoly LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ..xx..e |
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27 May 04 - 05:52 AM (#1194744) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: el ted Was the fire Art in itself? I can't wait to hear what Brian Sewell comes out with, the poor darlings must be close to tears. |
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27 May 04 - 05:57 AM (#1194747) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: Ellenpoly It's the first time I've ever thought up a "wish list" of what I hoped was in that fire...well not really, but, yes, really. |
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27 May 04 - 05:58 AM (#1194749) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull art tresures my arse! it was all modern art shit. |
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27 May 04 - 05:59 AM (#1194750) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull anyway=Brian Sewell is a big puff, with a stupid voice. |
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27 May 04 - 06:01 AM (#1194752) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: el ted I hope Homer's failed barbeque wasn't in amongst the "treasures" |
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27 May 04 - 06:02 AM (#1194753) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: greg stephens Let's be fair to Brian Sewell, I dont think he will joining in the mourning. Tracy Emin's not really his thing, I fancy. |
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27 May 04 - 06:05 AM (#1194755) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: greg stephens Incidentally, why was all this stuff in a warehouse, rather than on display somewhere? Is it perhaps possible that nobody wanted to look at it? |
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27 May 04 - 06:16 AM (#1194761) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: McGrath of Harlow At least Tracey Emin has got it in proportion: Emin: 'I'm more upset about kids being killed in Iraq' Now I wonder how much they were insured for, and how that compares with what they'd have fetched in the market? |
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27 May 04 - 06:26 AM (#1194767) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: greg stephens Congratulations, McGrath, on your ability to bring the Iraq war into a superficially unrelated thread. To balance the Iraq remark, Tracy Emin's just said on Radio 4 that it was like losing a member of the family, which strikes me as a more believable artist's reaction. (I rather like Tracy Emin's work actually, though I'm not averse to going for a cheap laugh at her expense). |
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27 May 04 - 06:28 AM (#1194771) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: el ted Yo Greg, If I don't change my bedding for 3months,then pooh in one corner of it, would you buy the bed off me for say......... 2000guineas? |
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27 May 04 - 06:31 AM (#1194773) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: Linda Kelly the king is in the altogether, the altogether ...... British iconic art-or how you can fool some of the people some of the time, but Chares Saatchi most of the time. |
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27 May 04 - 06:32 AM (#1194775) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: Micca Oh look!!! the Emperors wardrobe has burned and all his fine clothes have been destroyed!!!! |
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27 May 04 - 06:35 AM (#1194777) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: el ted I'l start work on the mucky bed tonight.And for 2000guineas I'll even throw in TWO half hamsters in formaldehyde. Any takers? ( other than Charles Saatchi? |
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27 May 04 - 06:42 AM (#1194781) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: Hrothgar Some of you people lack proper feeling for and understanding of fine art. For example, the Fire Event at Woodford Folk Festival is an art form. A fire in an art warehouse is not necessarily so. |
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27 May 04 - 06:58 AM (#1194789) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: GUEST,noddy treasure WHAT treasure. TRacy Emin will probably declare the ruins as a work of art and sell it to Satchi for a small fortune after she pees on it. |
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27 May 04 - 07:00 AM (#1194792) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: Pied Piper Oh dear. How sad. What a pitty. |
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27 May 04 - 07:08 AM (#1194802) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: The Fooles Troupe Some years ago an artist canned his ... well, excrement, and sold them as works of art. The sterilisation process was not perfect, so occassionally a can explodes, vastly increasing the value of the remaining works of art - 'art de merde' I believe it is called. He died shortly thereafter, and now the cans are worth more than their weight in gold... Robin |
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27 May 04 - 07:22 AM (#1194810) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: Dave Bryant I hope that the Damien Hirst wasn't overdone - just cooked a nice medium-rare - served with a piquant sauce - and two veg ! |
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27 May 04 - 07:24 AM (#1194813) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: GUEST,sorefingers BS, S and now 'art S'! |
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27 May 04 - 08:00 AM (#1194831) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: mooman What a pity. Never mind. moo |
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27 May 04 - 08:06 AM (#1194838) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: Strollin' Johnny el ted, Oaklet might buy your sculpture "The Mucky Bed" if you knock the price down to £57. J :0) |
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27 May 04 - 08:31 AM (#1194862) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: el ted 57guineas and you're on. I went home this lunchtime and had a huge poo poo in my bed. Penny wasn't too pleased though, she had to shuufle over to her side out of my range. |
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27 May 04 - 08:38 AM (#1194878) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: manitas_at_work I shouldn't think Tracey Emin was too worried as she'd already sold the stuff but it seems that the art shouldn't have been there anyway as the owners thought it was being stored in a secure place and not a lock-up on a trading estate. |
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27 May 04 - 08:55 AM (#1194897) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: Rapparee Geez, them Brits don't understand Performance Art when they experience it. An obvious case of Post-Modern deconstrutionist deconstruction, highlighting the transient nature of human aethestic creation pitted against the entropic nature of oxidationist deconstruction. I only wonder who the artist was -- undoubtedly an Immortal, whose name is destined to ring down the corridors of Time. |
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27 May 04 - 01:32 PM (#1195232) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: Ebbie From the link above: "Charles Saatchi was left pondering an irreplaceable hole in his extensive private collection." Do the English express themselves differently from Americans? LOL |
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27 May 04 - 02:34 PM (#1195270) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: GUEST,harlowpoet The Guardian(UK) mentioned the word priceless in its first report which was incorrect, as it all had a price. Everyone made on the deal. Saatchi gets it back on the insurance, Hirst and co receive some more publicity, and we don't have to look at it, next time at the Tate. |
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27 May 04 - 02:51 PM (#1195282) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: Bill D it's not as if there arent more 'contemplative Wombats' ready to be posed & immortalized! |
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27 May 04 - 02:58 PM (#1195288) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: Keith A of Hertford And much of the insurance payout will go to the 'artists' to recreate their 'works'. |
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27 May 04 - 03:20 PM (#1195304) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: McGrath of Harlow The shame is that it isn't just Saatchi's collection of crap art that's gone up in the Bonfire of the Vanities, amid general merriment - there are also a fair number of other paintings kept in teh warehouse that went up in flames, and some of those were a lot better. Ah well, every silver lining has a cloud. |
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27 May 04 - 04:28 PM (#1195334) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: Jim Dixon Terry Allen has made fun of a similar event in TRUCKLOAD OF ART. |
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27 May 04 - 05:13 PM (#1195360) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: ard mhacha Some swine beat me to it, just about the only good thing Stalin ever did was make a bonfire of all of The Soviet Unions modern art. |
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27 May 04 - 05:19 PM (#1195367) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: GUEST,harlowpoet I've been pondering this tonight. If you sell something, you have no right of say as to what happens to it, anymore than anything else you would sell. You cannot claim any artistic exception to this, in fact it's worse, as you've sold your loving creation. At least no-ones comparing it the Great Library at Alexandria which burnt down. Though I wonder what happened to the library books still borrowed at the time? |
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27 May 04 - 07:27 PM (#1195458) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: Gareth Dammmn ! and when a strike by firefightes would be a social improvement the B****r's were at work ! Gsreth |
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27 May 04 - 07:43 PM (#1195462) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: The Fooles Troupe Actually Australia is working on leglislation to continue artists rights after sale - something about our indigenous population's contribution to the art world was some of the motivation behind that... |
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27 May 04 - 07:48 PM (#1195464) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: McGrath of Harlow If you sell something, you have no right of say as to what happens to it, anymore than anything else you would sell. I don't think anyone can have absolute possession of a work of art, which would entitle them to destroy it on a whim. |
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27 May 04 - 08:11 PM (#1195481) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: George Papavgeris Agree, Kevin, but only if it IS a work of art. And opinions will vaery on this, of course |
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27 May 04 - 10:39 PM (#1195586) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: GUEST,harlowpoet A bout of insomnia brings me back. Such a rule as not having absolute possession, would be impossible to manage, due to the subjective nature of what is claimed as art. Also a landscape gardener could claim the same rights. Everyone was born equal under the sun, why should there be special rights? Michaelangelo never needed them, nor did Picaasso. |
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27 May 04 - 11:36 PM (#1195611) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: The Fooles Troupe ... but he got paid, unlike some modern artists, especially musicians... |
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27 May 04 - 11:39 PM (#1195613) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: Blackcatter OK - I get it - this is another Cricket thread - right!?! |
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28 May 04 - 03:36 AM (#1195674) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: Gurney This is no tragedy, this is an opportunity. I wonder where I left that 6" paintbrush. I wonder if Cholmondley the chimp is still about. Was that his name? Not a bad little painter. |
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28 May 04 - 03:44 AM (#1195676) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: Ellenpoly So apparently one of the artists who had work in that warehouse is sueing. So it begins...xx..e |
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28 May 04 - 04:12 AM (#1195693) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: el ted Well it took a few practise chops, but I successfully split a hamster in two last night, at the eighteenth attempt. I cleaned out "pets r us " of their entire stock of hamsters but it was worth it! I didn't have any formadahyde to preserve them in so I used vinegar ( a nice local twist there i think) So, what am I bid for this homage to Damien? Shall we start the bidding at 15,000 guineas? |
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28 May 04 - 05:24 AM (#1195725) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull Tracy Emming is on the wireless now. |
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28 May 04 - 05:26 AM (#1195729) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull I forgot to say which station she's on, it's The Home Service, [92-94 FM]. |
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28 May 04 - 05:42 AM (#1195745) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull Ted, good tip when slicing rodents-freeze them first, and whilst they are still frozen, run then through a band saw set on a slow speed. |
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28 May 04 - 05:47 AM (#1195753) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: Betsy Good riddance to a pile of shite - manufactured by bluffers,conmen and women and given a price tag by an arsehole who hasn`t got an ounce of social responsibility. Good riddance to bad rubbish as an old schoolteacher of mine used to say. |
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28 May 04 - 06:00 AM (#1195759) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: McGrath of Harlow But it wasn't just Saatchi's selection that was burnt in this warehouse. A mass of real paintings went up as well, notably about fifty by the late Patrick Heron - here's a link to some of his work on a Tate Gallery site. These aren't rubbish. |
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28 May 04 - 06:03 AM (#1195761) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: Ellenpoly You're right, McGrath! It's a shame these were burnt. I now realize that there were a lot in there besides the Tracy Emin/Damian Hurst-type crap. For those others, I'm truly sorry..xx..e |
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28 May 04 - 06:13 AM (#1195765) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: greg stephens Very interesting, the theory that certain objects(eg art) cannot be privately owned, but must in some sense be communal property. Land, and stately homes and other buildings of a certain status tend to be considered in this light as well. It makes senses, though I'm not sure if I fancy everyone having the right to stroll round my house looking at my attempts at Zen calligraphy. An intriguing moral conundrum. I am not sure that I want a part share in Damien Hirst's shark, but I wouldn't mind a 60 millionth share in Stonehenge or "Flatford Mill". |
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28 May 04 - 06:21 AM (#1195768) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: Stu Duchamp did it all with his toilet all those years ago, so much of this stuff is derivitive bric-a-brac (though I like Hursts spot paintings). Shame about the paintings though. |
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28 May 04 - 06:38 AM (#1195772) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: McGrath of Harlow I don't think possession is a simple black and white thing - when we say that "this is mine" it can indicate a whole range of relationships between us and whatever it is we are dealing with. A stick, a house, a painting, a song, a country, a husband or wife, a child. In that list the only absolute possession is the stick - I mean that is the only case where we have a free moral right to dispose of it as we like, and destroy it if we choose. (And I can imagine cases where even thta "right" is not absolute.) Most of the the words "my" and "mine" imply some kind of duty of care. |
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28 May 04 - 06:41 AM (#1195773) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: GUEST,weary Lighten up McGrath for God's sake! Please let the odd BS thread be a bit of fun for once. |
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28 May 04 - 07:05 AM (#1195782) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: greg stephens Bugger off, GUEST weary. I started this thread, and I say McGrath can say what he likes on it. |
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28 May 04 - 07:15 AM (#1195787) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull hello, how can you own a stick, who did you buy it off, and where did they get it from? I reckon sticks should be held in trust for the whole nation, isent that waht the National Trust and English Heritage was set up for? |
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28 May 04 - 07:23 AM (#1195793) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: greg stephens They lend you walking sticks in hospitals after operations, I think, but I think you're meant to take them back when youre better. I had my grandfather's walking stick till recently, but I think it might have been nicked. Or taken back into public ownership, perhaps. What's all this about not owning my wife, eh? If any of you lot think you're going to get a share, you've got another think coming. |
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28 May 04 - 07:27 AM (#1195794) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: McGrath of Harlow I have to admit my first reaction was a belly laugh. There was a letter in the Guardian yesterday that I liked: "So a large number of works by prominent young British artists are no more than a pile of unrecognisable debris. No change then." (Ian Pring, of Welling, Kent.) But I thought that the real stuff that got burnt shouldn't go unregretted. |
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28 May 04 - 07:28 AM (#1195795) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull I read on a Stonhenge site a few days ago, that some rich bloke owned Stonhenge in about 1908, [not sure who he bought it off!], but then he genourusly gave it to English Heritage for them to lok after for the nation. I think he paid 6 thousand quid for it, [probably a lot of money in them days]. |
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28 May 04 - 07:33 AM (#1195798) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: The Fooles Troupe Ok Blackcatter, I got it now... :-) |
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28 May 04 - 07:36 AM (#1195801) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: jacqui.c What does it say for the values in this country that the genuine works of art that were lost were not given anything more than a passing mention in the news whereas a pile of tat by second raters gets full headlines. |
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28 May 04 - 07:39 AM (#1195804) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: ard mhacha McGrath you have to be joking, I had a look at those "works" by Patrick Heron, I wouldn`t hang them in the toilet,on second thoughts I would, if I was constipated. After the fire there was a pile of rubbish, Turner Pize material |
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28 May 04 - 09:19 AM (#1195861) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: Rapparee When I first saw this thread I thought, "God! Constable, Turner -- all gone! Did the Tate burn? The BM? The V&A? Was there some sort of protest again in Boston, perhaps at the art museum instead of the harbor?" What's developed is a discussion of aesthetics. To me, that boils down to "This is good because I like it, and YOUR taste is all in your mouth." Remember Sturgeon's Law: 99% of EVERYTHING is crap. |
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28 May 04 - 09:34 AM (#1195869) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: greg stephens My stick, my wife, my country, my art.....my arse |
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28 May 04 - 10:17 AM (#1195902) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: McGrath of Harlow Boats at Night - Patrick Heron 1920-1999 This wasn't one of those burned. |
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28 May 04 - 11:28 AM (#1195967) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: Blackcatter What I like from up above is that someone is trying to get guineas for hamsters. |
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28 May 04 - 11:36 AM (#1195971) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: Ellenpoly I kept wanting to connect this thread to the Artsy Fartsy one, but ours was classier! ;-D ..xx..e |
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28 May 04 - 01:55 PM (#1196068) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: DougR McGrath: It's a pity. DougR |
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28 May 04 - 06:51 PM (#1196257) Subject: RE: BS: British Art treasures burnt to ashes From: semi-submersible "...The genuine works of art ... were not given anything more than a passing mention in the news whereas a pile of tat by second raters gets full headlines." Loss is all too common, while irony is a treat. "Man bites dog - now that's news." Still, how much attention do things of "value" receive while they are here? Not only in your country, either. |