|
18 Jul 04 - 11:50 PM (#1228682) Subject: ADD: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: John M. I did a field recording of an anonymous singer who called from Australia. He sang the following bawdy song Ching-Chung Chinaman Size: 166KB Time: 0:55 Does anyone else remember versions of this song (see lyrics below)? If yes, would you be willing to sing it for me? You can reach me at mudcat3.20.jpm21@neverbox.com. I collect bawdy folksongs and if you know any bawdy songs I would like to record them and, if you like, I can make an anonymous recording. Sincerely,
John Mehlberg
CHING CHONG CHINAMAN Chorus:
Ching Chong Chinaman runs a brothel shop
Chinaman had twenty women working for him there
Chinaman had torture room on the second floor
This story may not seem very real to you |
|
19 Jul 04 - 12:21 AM (#1228694) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song From: Joe Offer Hi, John - This Google Search will give you lots of versions of the "Ching Chong Chinaman" chant. I get the impression that it was mostly a playground chant - I haven't seen one as extensive as the one you posted. Lingenfelter/Dwyer's Songs of the American West has many anti-Chinese songs, mostly "John Chinaman" songs. Songs like this make me very uneasy - but I guess they're part of our history, and may serve to remind us that the "good old days" may not have been any better than the times we have now. -Joe Offer- |
|
19 Jul 04 - 12:56 AM (#1228709) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song From: John M. Yes, I did a google search before I posted. I am looking for others who know this as a SONG not just a chant or school yard rhyme. I wish to find other versions of this song and to confirm the tune used from other informants. If you know Ching Chong Chinaman as a song, please contact me at mudcat3.20.jpm21@neverbox.com If you are looking at this thread after two weeks the email will become invalid and you will have to type it out ( john AT mehlberg D-O-T com). Sincerely, John Mehlberg ~ My bawdy songs, toasts and recitations website: www.immortalia.com |
|
19 Jul 04 - 10:35 AM (#1228949) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song From: GUEST,Displaced Camelotian Most unpleasant. You might like to know, however, that the language is very Australian, which suggests where it originated. Also, waterbeds became fashionable about 1970. Popular culture allusions to sadomasochistic fetishes seem to have begun in the mid to late 70s and have proliferated since then. |
|
19 Jul 04 - 10:41 AM (#1228954) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song From: Metchosin you've got to be kidding, why would anyone want to record racist crap like that? |
|
19 Jul 04 - 11:56 AM (#1229017) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song From: Anglo This is a parody. The original song is from a musical, Chu Chin Chow, which enjoyed considerable success in London during WW1. As I recall the lyrics are about a Chinese laundry - the plot is based on a story from Scherezade. Since these days anything that refers to any sort of racial stereotype is offensive (simply defining a laundry as Chinese would get you into trouble) the words might be sonsidered rracist. At the time they were not. Unlike this parody. |
|
19 Jul 04 - 12:22 PM (#1229044) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song From: Q (Frank Staplin) Wonder why Guest says the language is very Australian. Don't see any particular clue. The old playground chants (a typical one in Steinbeck's "Cannery Row") go back to the exclusion days if not to an earlier time when Chinese came to climb the Golden Mountain. "Ching-Chong" was recently used derisively by the basketballer Shaquil O'Neal (see link below) and seemingly is popular with black rappers. This 'song,' however, seems forced and derivative. Guest noted its fairly recent vintage. It perhaps came from the black rappers. Nikkeiview |
|
19 Jul 04 - 01:23 PM (#1229076) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song From: GUEST,Displaced Camelotian "Hot cock," "rooting," and "jack," taken together, seem Australian to me. I suppose they could be British as well. |
|
19 Jul 04 - 01:44 PM (#1229092) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song From: Jerry Rasmussen There was a playground song going around when I was a kid in Southern Wisconsin of Ching Chong Chinaman that seemed pretty dirty when I was 8 years old, but nothing as racy as this version. I remember all the words, but am content to let it fade out of memory. And then of course there was "Two Irishmen men, two Irishmen, sitting in a ditch, one called the other a dirty son of a Peter Murphy, Peter Murphy.." And on it went, with the offensive word at the end of each line changed to the beginning word of the next line. I never thought it as racist, and other than the first line, it had nothing to do with any particular nationality.. As for the Chinaman song, I don't want to be any part of passing it on.. Jerry |
|
19 Jul 04 - 02:09 PM (#1229109) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song From: Joe Offer There are three versions at The Online Dictionary of Playground Slang. Not very nice, but interesting. -Joe Offer, who didn't talk like that or he'd get his mouth washed out-
Along came a bumblebee and stung him on his.. Ask no questions, tell no lies, I saw a policeman doing up his... flies are a nuisance, bugs are even worse, And this is the end of my silly little verse. Ching chong chinaman went to milk a cow. Ching chong chinaman didn't know how. Ching chong chinaman pulled the wrong tit. Ching chong china man got covered in shit. Chin chin chinaman bought a little shop And all he sold was peppermint rock He wee'd in a bottle and called it pop Chin chin chinaman bought a little shop |
|
19 Jul 04 - 02:13 PM (#1229112) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song From: Q (Frank Staplin) Digressing, but English slang has become pretty well universal wherever English is spoken. Hot cock is widespread (several meanings, from eager to the real stuff to the clap and others, rooting is a common mis-use of rutting (pigs do both), and it takes pages to cover all of the meanings of jack, from an insult to money to penis to heroin to gull- to whatever. Although the doggeral reminded me of current use of ching-chong in rap, there is none of the rap form there. My remark was not correct. |
|
19 Jul 04 - 02:17 PM (#1229116) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song From: Fliss This is what we used to chant in the playground in the 1950's in Shropshire.
He washed it and dressed it and then it caught a cold He sent for the doctor The doctor couldnt come Because he had a pimple on his rum tum tum. |
|
19 Jul 04 - 02:18 PM (#1229117) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song From: GUEST "Hot cock" is a synonym for "nonsense" or "crap". "Jack" is a synonym for "pox". |
|
19 Jul 04 - 02:37 PM (#1229134) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song From: Nigel Parsons One of the books of rugby songs from the 60s "Rugby Songs" or "Son of Rugby Songs" had (as far as I recall)
Stony broke, wants a poke, penis in his hand Up comes 'Poxy Lilly', doesn't give a rap. Three days later Clap Clap Clap. (ttto "I'm a little teapot" or similar) Nigel |
|
19 Jul 04 - 02:42 PM (#1229137) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song From: GUEST The third and fourth verses may well be later additions. They don't include "pigeon English" like "him" and "policee-man". |
|
20 Jul 04 - 10:07 AM (#1229808) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song From: Jim Dixon The musical play "Chu Chin Chow," by Australian-born Oscar Asche (lyricist) and Frederic Norton (composer), opened in London in 1916 and ran for nearly 5 years. There were later productions in the US and Australia, but they were less successful. See PeoplePlay UK, Guide to the Musical Theatre, and National Library of Australia. The Internet Movie Database (IMDb) lists 2 film versions made in 1923 (a silent musical?) and 1934. I can't definitely identify any song that was the source of CHING CHONG CHINAMAN, but the most likely-sounding title is I AM CHU CHIN CHOW OF CHINA. |
|
20 Jul 04 - 11:37 AM (#1229882) Subject: Lyr Add: CHING CHONG From: Q (Frank Staplin) I still think 'Ching Chong' goes back before the 1916 musical "Chu Chin Chow." Still looking, but found this sheet music from c. 1917. CHING CHONG Words J. Will Callahan, Music Lee S. Roberts Way out in old San Fran There is a Chinaman Who's known for miles around, Wonderful place he keeps Down where he eats and sleeps Way underneath the ground; Each night the festive chinks Come there to wink and blink, And dream away the hours, They sing this funny song While they are born along On beds of poppy flow'rs. Chorus: Ching Chong, Oh Mister Ching Chong, You're the King of Chinatown, Ching Chong, I love your sing-song When you have turned the lights all down; Ching Chong, just let me swing 'long Thru the realms of drowsy-land, Dreaming while stars are beaming Oh Mister Ching Chong, sing-song man. When you're in Frisco Town Don't fail to stop around And see this Ching Chong man, Wonderful things you'll learn Down where the torches burn He'll show you all he can; Then when the time is ripe He'll fill your little pipe And then a light he'll bring, Gently you'll float away Far out on Slumber Bay, And softly you will sing. Pub. by Lee S. Roberts, Fine Arts Bldg., Chicago, c. 1917 (undated); copy at Bancroft Library, Univ. California, Berkeley. Cover shows man with pigtail decorating Chinese lanterns.
|
|
20 Jul 04 - 11:57 AM (#1229899) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song From: Q (Frank Staplin) Forgot- Source of sheet music, American Memory, http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/cgi-bin/flipomatic/cic/brk5431 Ching Chong A Mr. P. Chong ran a restaurant in Honolulu many years ago. The name used to be common among Chinese, but I think some changed to another family name. "Ching A Ling A Loo" by Max Hoffman was popular and issued as sheet music in 1901. "Ching Chow Chung" by Carl Hess was published in San Francisco as sheet music in 1873. No lyrics were published with the music. This could be among the earliest mentions of the name. At American Memory. |
|
20 Jul 04 - 12:06 PM (#1229908) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song From: Q (Frank Staplin) Ching cartoon, Harper's Weekly, 1894: Ching |
|
20 Jul 04 - 02:58 PM (#1230044) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song From: Q (Frank Staplin) "Oh Ching Chong opium, taffy on a stick," first line of chorus of "The Chinee Laundryman," 1880, by Frank Dumont, pub. in Philadelphia by Chas. F. Escher Jr. and sung by Charles Backus of the San Francisco Minstrels. Sheet music at Levy Sheet Music Collection. Very difficult to read. The Chinee Laundryman This puts "Ching Chong" firmly in the 19th century. It is extremely doubtful that "Chu Chin Chow" contributed anything to the 'Ching Chong' rhymes and songs. It was based on Ali Baba and the Forty Thieves, by its book composer, Australian Oscar Asche. Two or three (more?) films followed (1923, USA, MGM) and in England. It was a very popular musical in the USA and performed by amateur groups, including students in high school. It has remained a cult musical, and a DVD is available from House of Opera, with the original music by Norton. |
|
25 Jul 04 - 01:34 PM (#1233440) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song From: GUEST,Adam McNaughtan The original song comes from Lionel Monckton's "The Geisha Girl". The chorus was:
Me aflaid allee trade welly welly bad; No-ee joke, blokee bloke, makee shutee shop; Chin Chin Chinaman, chop chop chop. One Glasgow playground version went:
Walkee walkee down the street, buy a Beecham's pill; Walkee walke home again, go to bed at night, Wake up in the morning with his shirt all shite. |
|
25 Jul 04 - 02:01 PM (#1233457) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song From: Q (Frank Staplin) Hi, guest Adam. The Ching Chung Chinaman expression is older than Monckton's "Geisha Girl" as well as "Chu Chin Chow." Lionel Monckton was producing musicals in the period 1898-1920. Moreover your words are a parody (unless it was some undocumented piece he did while at Oxford). It has to be older than 1873 (Ching Chow Chung sheet music) and the 1880 ("The Chinee Laundryman" sheet music, with its chorus of Ching Chong opium). I would like to find even older references, but it already seems certain that the expression started with the first Ching and Chong males who came to America. |
|
25 Jul 04 - 05:11 PM (#1233528) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song From: GUEST,Adam Sorry, Q. I wasn't trying to provide an origin for the expression, just for John Mehlberg's song which echoes the Geisha Girl version in text, and presumably in melody. |
|
25 Jul 04 - 05:54 PM (#1233572) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chung Chinaman Song From: Q (Frank Staplin) Can't find original Geisha Girl. Do you have the original lyrics? Be nice to have them both. |
|
26 Jul 04 - 05:54 AM (#1233822) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: GUEST,Adam Another apology. I was quoting from memory of a production seen 48 years ago. The Geisha was by Sidney Jones; there was only one song by Monckton (not Chin Chin Chinaman). The complete libretto can be found at www.staff.ncl.ac.uk/fraser.charlton/edwardian.html. The Chinaman song is in Act II. Adam |
|
26 Jul 04 - 06:03 AM (#1233827) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: GUEST,weerover I'm sure Adam is too modest to mention it, but he sings the Glasgow version above as part of a medley of Glasgow songs on his excellent album "wordswordswords". His Glasgow version of the story of Hamlet on the same is on its own worth the price of the album. wr. |
|
26 Jul 04 - 10:30 AM (#1233932) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: GUEST "Add that little extra" sounds extremely modern. Adspeak. |
|
26 Jul 04 - 01:37 PM (#1234056) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: Q (Frank Staplin) Guest Adam, thanks for the Edwardian site. Some amusing material! |
|
18 Sep 04 - 07:29 PM (#1275197) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: GUEST,.gargoyle Another playground rhyme - circa 1960 - western USA....something along the lines of:
Lined ten whores up against the wall F__cked them, f__cked them, f__cked them all F__cked them all till his dick turned red Went to the doctor and the doctor said, "Sorry, Charlie but your dick is dead." "Can't be, can't be, can't be true!" "Sorry, Charlie but your balls are too." Gargoyle |
|
29 Sep 04 - 12:22 PM (#1284110) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: GUEST,"dumpling "Norfolk. interesting comments--- I'm trying to locate the source of a song which i learnt at my Grandmother's knee back in the 40's ( she was born in the 1880's) The first line of the lyrics start: My name is Ling (ching?) I come from China, ickle lickle lupships you see there. Any ideas? I would love to solve this mystery before my memory fails completely!! Many thanks. "dumpling" |
|
29 Sep 04 - 02:34 PM (#1284220) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: Q (Frank Staplin) Could have been a children's play song. Very difficult to find them; collectors mostly ignored those based on racial characteristics. |
|
29 Sep 04 - 03:07 PM (#1284240) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: SINSULL I must have had a sheltered childhood. We chanted: Ching ching Chinaman sittin' on a fence Trying to make a dollar out of sixteen cents. |
|
30 Sep 04 - 03:47 PM (#1285193) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: Azizi Just for the record... There's a children's rhyme Chitty Chitty Bang Bang/sittin on a fence trying to make a dollar out of 15 {65; 85} cents... There's also a children's rhyme that begins Shimmy Shimmy China/ I know karate.... That rhyme also has the line "sittin on the fence/trying to make a dollar out of 85 cents..." SINSULL, I guess inflation can be blamed for the change from 16 cents. I'm not sure if these two rhymes I referenced have anything to do with Ching Chong Chinaman. Probably not... |
|
25 Jan 07 - 06:49 PM (#1948074) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: GUEST My recollection of this song begins with a verse:
It comes all from Chinaland, far across the sea Packed in bales of merchandise by little China men Sent across the ocean from Sen Yen Chin chin Chinaman velly velly sad He's aflaid of the tlade velly velly bad Tlade bloke stony bloke have to shutee shop Chin chin Chinaman, chop, chop, chop |
|
25 Jan 07 - 07:06 PM (#1948091) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: GUEST On a slighty different "slant" (no pun intended) there was a record by George Formby, one of his stories about Mr. Woo (the Chinese Laundry man) it's called "Mr Woo's An Air Raid Warden Now"...and with regard to the blackout, it tells us that "If you've got a chink in your window/There'll be another one at your door" |
|
25 Jan 07 - 07:09 PM (#1948092) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: Cluin The one I remember was: Chinky Chinky Chinaman, sitting on a fence Tried to make a dollar out of sixteen cents An observation on the industrious spirit of the immigrant who came to a new country to better his life? Yeah, right... |
|
25 Jan 07 - 08:11 PM (#1948165) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: Azizi I started to share a contemporary children's rhyme that is very much like the one Cluin posted when it occurred to me that I had posted that rhyme on a thread like this before - thread.cfm?threadid=89534 Origin of 'Chink-a-boo Man'. Here's the post that I wrote to that thread on March 11, 2006. Note that within the text of that post I refer to a comment that was posted on that thread by Sinsull as well as a comment that was posted on that thread by GUEST,J C. Those posts are also missing, and there are probably additional comments that are missing. ** Subject: RE: Origins: Chink a Boo Man From: Azizi - PM Date: 11 Mar 06 - 11:59 AM Sinsull and others, I am interested in collecting examples of contemporary children's rhymes. I am also interested in documenting -whenever possible-the sources for those rhymes, and what those rhymes mean to the children reciting them. I would paraphrase GUEST,J C 's comment that "there [may be] a basic difference in intent between the phrases you quote and those deliberately designed to malign and demean a whole group of people". It appears to me that alot of times children reciting a rhyme don't know or care what the words mean. They are more "in to" the rhythm of the words and the performance activity {handclapping, jumping rope, foot stomping, etc} that goes with the rhyme. But as to Sinsull's question would I be interested in collecting a rhyme with the words "Ching Ching Chinamen Sittin' on a fence Trying to make a dollar out fifteen cents." My answer is yes. My goal is to collect & document rhymes for the historical record, and as a means of gathering insight into the world of children. Therefore, some rhymes that I collect don't conform with my moral standards, but that isn't the point. That said, I try to include commentary along with the rhyme example so that information is preserved about what the rhyme means/meant to the performers of that rhyme. That's why I believe that demographical information {including age, gender, race and.or ethnicity is important. I also try to add information about the possible source of the rhyme, and the rhyme's possible cultural meaning [i.e. for "Chink Chink Chinaman" that the rhyme teases Chinese people and other people with slanted eyes]. I'm very interested in how children's rhymes change over time and among different groups of people. For example, in 1997 I collected this handclap rhyme from elementary school aged African American girls & boys in Pittsburgh, PA area that is similar to "Chink Chink Chinaman": "Shimmy Shimmy China Sittin on a fence tryin to make a dollar outta 65 cents. He missed. He missed. He missed like this; like this. like this. -snip- In this example "Shimmy Shimmy China" is used as a nickname of a boy or man who is sitting on a fence. Even with the use of the name "China", there is no allusion to Chinese people. And certainly no racial teasing is intended or perceived. All this to say, that we adults have to be careful not to read our issues into kid's creative works. |
|
05 May 08 - 12:30 AM (#2333065) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: GUEST,tony Dad used to chant/sing a chinaman song in the 1940's, some of which included "This old chinaman he went to sea" ----- and had a chorus of "Chic chic alora" does this evoke any memories or additional lines? |
|
05 May 08 - 04:07 AM (#2333134) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: Jack Blandiver A variant of this rhyme was the first piece of Folk Lore I ever collected in the field, or rather the playground, on my first day at Shiremoor Infants School, Northumberland, in September 1966. My source, as I recall, was classmate Peter Best, who impressed me with delivery of his recitation as much as by its content, in which, by way of a variation on subsequent versions, said Ching Chong got a mouthful of shit. Needless to say I reported this to my mother when I home later that afternoon, giving her as studied a recitation as my meagre talents were capable of, and for my efforts was rewarded with a mouthful of soap and water. |
|
05 May 08 - 06:42 PM (#2333635) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: GUEST,Steve Gardham Similar version to one posted above. Hull 1950s street rhyme
Washed it, dressed it, called it Pretty Poll, Sent for the doctor, doctor couldn't come, Because he had a pimple on his bum, bum, bum. |
|
25 Jun 08 - 08:28 PM (#2374412) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: GUEST,Philip Barton I was taught this song by my grandmother 57 years ago. The version that she taught me was this.
velly velly sad. Me aflaid alee trade velly velly bad Noee joke, stoney bloke, makee shutee shop. Ching Chang Chinaman Chop, chop, chop. |
|
04 Jul 08 - 08:55 PM (#2381322) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: Azizi After learning more about these Chinaman rhymes and also learning about the continued use of the Ching Chong phrase to taunt Asian people, I realize that I need to retract my previous comments to this thread about being interested in collecting these rhymes. I admit to having been so focused on finding rhyme sources and connections between rhymes that I disregarded or minimized the highly offensive, mocking words in these rhymes. Even if the intent of the person reciting them isn't meant to insult, these rhymes have been and still are being used to insult Asians, and I don't want to be any party to that. For the record, I'm sorry and for my words and mindset. I sincerely apologize to all those who read my previous comments. What others do is their decision. I am writing this for me and for the record of this archived thread. |
|
05 Nov 08 - 12:45 AM (#2485237) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: GUEST,munshi thank you all for posting such strange and interesing 'poems'. of interest to me is oscar asche (australian) who actually went to china in his youth (perhaps 1890s). his musical chu chin chow made him - and unmade him. (most successful comedy - to bankrupt.) azizi - we must not be so upset about the tauting. these rhymes come from history. we are remembering verses that were nasty - but now are probably out of date. want to point out that in 1900 there were parallel themes: one was racism and british colony. the other was 'orientalism' and selling of asian concepts... which was very popular. see youtube for the song 'mera naam chin chin choo'. |
|
20 Jan 09 - 09:46 AM (#2543957) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: GUEST,Dave F I remember a cleaner version of this song from an Alladin pantomime in the mid 1950's. It was sung by Wishee Washee the laundryman and went something like:
He do wash-ee wash-ee, sometime he wash-ee wong. When he try to steal-ee collar, police-ee man-ee come, He get fine-ee five-ee dollar, plenty much sum! Chin chin chinaman, velly velly sad, High trade, low trade, velly velly bad. No-ee joke, broke-ee broke, had to shut-ee shop Chin chin chinaman, chop chop chop. |
|
20 Jan 09 - 11:00 AM (#2544027) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: GUEST,Stephen Oh great another thread in the name of 'research' bringing up songs which should have been left behind in the playground long ago. An analogy that comes to mind is those WW2 re-enactment societies that dress up at weekends in SS uniforms. Purely for historical accuracy of course. Mudcats policy regarding these threads demean the whole site. The thread title is ugly and so are most of the lyrics in it. Its even been given the dignity of being above the line. |
|
07 Apr 09 - 08:01 PM (#2606957) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: GUEST,A proud Asian American Why would anyone want to continue a tradition such as this, a tradition that degrades an entire race of people? For what point and purpose? How would you feel if your people were subjected to such vile degradation, disrespect and hatred? You really should think things through before you decide to pursue a topic. And anyone who has ever uttered such filthy words for fun and amusement needs to do some serious soul-searching. I mean come on, Philip Barton, your GRANDMOTHER taught you that song? And thank you Azizi for being more considerate towards your fellow human being. I understand your basic intent was not to offend but to merely research the roots of a rhyme...but unless you plan on creating something positive out of this, ie shed light on the plight of Asian immigrants in Western society, then keeping alive such hateful words is not the right thing to do. |
|
07 Apr 09 - 08:05 PM (#2606960) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: Peace ApAA--I agree with you and Azizi. Every damned time I see this thread title it pisses me off. Bruce Murdoch |
|
07 Apr 09 - 08:24 PM (#2606971) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: Joe Offer Yeah, I have to admit that I cringe every time I see this thread come up. I thought it came up more often than just 47 times, but I was wrong - it's the thread called Once in China There Lived a Great Man, which has 156 posts. I delete messages that are obviously posted just to cause trouble, but not if they give any appearance of having historic roots. It bothers me that some of the people who stop by to post, are people that really love these songs, and they get nostalgic over them. We baby boomers did learn such songs from our grandmothers - and they thought the songs were cute. I think that in the 1950's, even grandmothers had an inkling of an idea that such songs were a bit naughty, but I'm sure they didn't see them as hateful or bigoted. It's an interesting aspect of folklore that it's the "unprintable" things that are oftentimes the purest aspect of folklore, untainted by the niceties of copyrights and royalties and attributions and such. But into the 1950's, there were children's cartoons that expressed what we would consider to be racist attitudes. No, I wouldn't recommend passing these things on to your grandchildren, but they definitely have folkloric and historical interest. -Joe Offer, Forum Moderator- |
|
07 Apr 09 - 08:34 PM (#2606977) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: GUEST,Peace I agree, Joe. I cringe, too. |
|
25 Jul 09 - 02:25 PM (#2686946) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: GUEST,Pinner7 I remmber most of the words learned this in school in 6th grade
came a gust of wind and blew it out of sight ching-a-ling, ching-a-ling said ching loo... never mind I don't need a kite??????? |
|
26 Aug 09 - 07:08 AM (#2708836) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: GUEST,Sue Hen My gran sang this version to me in the 50s She was born 1895.
He sold gingerbread, lemonade and pop Everyone came to see his little shop Chink chink Chinaman Chop chop chop We originate from Ashton under Lyne /Oldham area. Manchester |
|
11 Feb 10 - 03:11 AM (#2835798) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: GUEST There lived in china a very old man his name was chikaraka ching chong man His head was big but his feet was small this little man could walk at all chikaraka ching chong chi chikarony alaban fat man o ko kony iki wikki ikki bye oh kokony |
|
27 Mar 10 - 09:02 AM (#2873183) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: GUEST,J. Weiler Ching Ching, Ching Ching, Ching Ching Chong Me gotta pig tail three miles long Me velly glad to sing this song Ching Ching, Ching Ching, Ching Ching Chong |
|
14 Apr 11 - 12:56 AM (#3134828) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: GUEST,MorwenEdhelwen1 I know this thread is old by now, but I wanted to write this. This song and other songs with racial stereotype make me uncomfortable, being Chinese-Australian, although find it interesting reading people's comments and opinions about songs with racial stereotypes. |
|
15 Apr 11 - 01:26 PM (#3135832) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: Jim Dixon Morwen, I agree with you, and I said so back here, in another thread about a similar song (or maybe a different version of the same song; I don't have the patience to figure it out). |
|
10 Jul 11 - 04:58 PM (#3185039) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: GUEST,nige & marge This version was sung to me in London in the 1940,s with the same chorus. But sorry cannot remember it all. Did anyone help you out? Marge |
|
16 Jul 11 - 02:52 PM (#3188890) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: GUEST,Paul There was a cartoon on the television in the 60's or 70's and someone in there said "chin chong chinaman" anyone know who it was or the cartoon.. seem to think it may have been a dog in it. Paul |
|
15 Nov 11 - 02:56 AM (#3257253) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: GUEST,Faz Anyone know this or any other verses to it?
Apple on a stick Ching Chung Chinaman Make a fella sick |
|
15 Nov 11 - 04:21 PM (#3257662) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: GUEST,Stephen No, the lyrics are poor and there is no historical, artistic or aesthetic value in the research |
|
15 Nov 11 - 06:53 PM (#3257761) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: GUEST,josepp In America during the coon song era (1890s), there are a number of racist songs directed at Asians. James Powers's 1898 recording "Chin Chin Chinaman" being an example. It's the same words that have been posted here over and over again: "Chin Chin Chinaman velly velly sad, etc." But he intersperses it with chinky gibberish throughout. There's Dan W. Quinn's "Mr. Jappy Jap Jappy" from 1897. This was the era of the Yellow Peril and things were very bad for Chinese people in America. They lived under no less oppression, brutality and terror than Southern blacks. Robert Louis Stevenson traveled the US at that time and rode the rails. He noted that whites never looked at nor spoke to Chinese people--as though they were invisible--except to occasionally curse at or insult them, never discussed them except to talk shit about them even as they rode upon the very rails many Chinese men laid down often at the cost of their lives. Everywhere the trains went, the way was strewn with the bones and spattered with the blood of the untold thousands of Chinese men who gave their lives and without whom the job could not have been done. Yet, in this photo taken at the completion of the Transcontinental railroad, one cannot help but notice the complete absence of Chinese workers. That's because they were forcibly removed before the photo was taken. We can't have white people not being the one and only heroes, now can we? http://www.findingdulcinea.com/docroot/dulcinea/fd_images/news/on-this-day/May/Transcontinental-Railroad-Completed/news/0/image. While a black man could rise to some level of respectability during that period--a large number of blacks were educated and literate and some as Bert Williams were among the highest paid in their fields--there was no such avenue open to Chinese. By 1919, D. W. Griffith made the first interracial love movie in America called "Broken Blossoms" concerning the love between a Chinese man and a white woman. Of course, the Chinese man was played by a white man in yellowface (Richard Barthelmess) but even so, it was a daring movie where the white audience is being persuaded to pull for this couple over the whites who try (and eventually succeed) in destroying the relationship. So daring, that Hollywood for decades wouldn't try to repeat it with rare exceptions. Instead, the white man was paired with the exotic Far Eastern woman in movie after movie for decades. Shocking that Puccini's "Madame Butterfly" was repackaged as "Miss Saigon" and still managed to be a huge attraction as though no time at all had passed between the two productions instead over 80 years. White men have this thing about Far Eastern women killing themselves over them. Not surprisingly, no Westerner has done a thesis on this strange fetish. And I'll believe it was based on a true story when someone can prove to me that "The Last Samurai" is historical instead of another patronizing piece of crap that could have been made 70 years ago judging from all the old stereotypes that were trotted out and shamelessly paraded around. But then I suppose it's on Asians to reject these types of roles or it won't change. And it's time to silence those Asians who deliberately try to perpetuate this colonialist crap (Amy Tan and Lucy Liu, for example) which any Asian-American should find a complete embarrassment and obstacle to progress. Either that or get used to being Ching Chong Chinaman. |
|
15 Nov 11 - 08:07 PM (#3257799) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: Joe Offer Josepp, how is it that you think that Amy Tan and Lucy Liu "perpetuate this colonialist crap"? I don't see that in them at all. -Joe- |
|
15 Nov 11 - 10:48 PM (#3257847) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: GUEST,josepp "Joy Luck Club" had no sympathetic Asian male characters at all. Not one. The white husbands, with one exception, were portrayed as ideal husbands. Then again, I do believe Amy Tan is married to a white man and that may have influenced her thinking. Suppose a white woman marries an Asian man and then writes a story where every single white male character is a complete asshole. Not one has a clue of how to act like a decent human being while the Asian male characters seem more or less well-balanced, disirable husband material. You'd say there was a bit of an agenda there, wouldn't you? If you don't, you should. When Lucy Liu was cast in that "Charlie's Angels" remake, she demanded that her character's father be a white man. I believe they had cast an Asian man first, but due to her objections, cast John Cleese instead. No explanation is given as to how this obvious full-blooded Asian woman could possibly have a white father. Imagine watching a movie where Uma Thurman's character has a Filippino father without any explanation of how that could possibly be. Certainly, you would wonder about it. But when an Asian woman wants a white man to play her daddy, we don't wonder about that. Why is that? Then she made this movie or something where several different men propose to her--all of them white. You would think as an Asian woman, one or two Asian men might be among her suitors. No, not Lucy Liu. Imagine, say, Rachel McAdams, doing a movie where every man wining and dining her is black--no white males even make a brief appearance. Would you not find that a wee bit odd? And we haven't touched on how Liu's minority status exhibiting this behavior is hurtful to others who share that status. Just the behavior by itself is in need of questioning. |
|
03 Feb 12 - 04:44 AM (#3301355) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: GUEST,Sonya I remember little bits of a song my grandmother taught me about ching chong chinaman working in a laundry with the same tune as the song about the brothel. Wondering if anyone else knows of this? |
|
05 Apr 13 - 10:37 PM (#3499399) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: GUEST,Zelda The one I remember is slightly different. I think we learned it in grade 2 or 3. This is what I remember: There was an old man and he came from China; His name was Chicka Racka Ching Chong Chang Chicka Racka Ching Chong Char Chicka Roney Alaballa Fatman Oh Kokoney Icka bye icka bye oh koh koh. His legs were big and his feet were small, This little man couldn't walk at all Chicka Racka Ching Chong Char Chicka Roney Alaballa Fatman Oh Kokoney Icka bye icka bye oh koh koh. Here he comes And there he goes, Funny little man with a screwed up nose; Chicka Racka Ching Chong Char Chicka Roney Alaballa Fatman Oh Kokoney Icka bye icka bye oh koh koh. **I think there may have been one or two other verses but don't remember them**** Boy were the songs politically incorrect in those days. And attitudes were a lot more racist. My family had migrated to Australia from Holland, and we were also looked down on. People called us "new australians", or "wogs". |
|
06 Apr 13 - 04:07 AM (#3499441) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: Joe Offer Thanks for adding a perspective to this song, Zelda. I agree that the song is racist. The trouble is, there was a cuteness and innocence to it, so people kept thinking it was OK to demean Asians this way because of the cuteness of it all. People keep coming back to these racist anti-Chinese songs because they have happy memories of the songs. I guess that happened with Stephen Foster songs is the early days of the Black civil rights movement. I think the Foster songs have been sorted out pretty well by now. I still sing "Old Black Joe" because I see nothing racist in it, but some people disagree with me. I didn't learn any "Chinaman" songs growing up in Wisconsin. By the time I moved here to California in 1973, "Chinaman" songs were unacceptable on the West Coast. -Joe- |
|
08 Jan 21 - 08:42 PM (#4087148) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: GUEST,Grand master cho Ching Chong ching Chong got a little ding dong Ching Chong Ching Chong you vagina is sideways ,does anyone know a song that goes something like that rember kids singing it when I was like nine or ten! |
|
08 Jan 21 - 09:12 PM (#4087149) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: BrooklynJay Something that I don't think has been mentioned: In 1922, actor Lon Chaney starred in a film called Shadows. He was in yellowface, playing a character called Yen Sin. According to a Chaney biography by Michael F. Blake, Shadows was originally supposed to be titled Ching Ching Chinaman, and sheet music of the song was issued, viewable here. Music was credited to Louis F. Gottschalk, lyrics by Eve Unsell. Note that while Chaney played Yen Sin, it says on the sheet music cover: Lon Chaney as Ching Ching Chinaman in the Screen Production "Shadows". Jay |
|
09 Jan 21 - 04:22 AM (#4087181) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: rich-joy re Zelda's post about being looked down upon as a "New Australian" : My best schoolfriends in the 60s were Dutch migrants :) However, my great Aunt Annie, (Australian born of English heritage), had TWO legal marriages to Chinese men, in the early 1900s in Western Australia! This was most definitely not a time or place of "multiculturalism" acceptance and anti-Chinese sentiment was commonly expounded in the Sunday newspaper, especially accusing the Chinese of depravity "with our young women" in the opium dens. (see TROVE website). Sadly, she died before I found out about her (still plenty of family secrets!) and also sadly, AFAIK, had no children. I would so love to have met and known her. R-J |
|
03 Dec 21 - 08:40 AM (#4127880) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: GUEST,Dale Ible from Forbes RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song My Grandmother was from England, and came over to Australia on a Ship that was later used in the Gallipoli Landings. She was a Young Girl back then, and learned this song in the midst of MANY Chinese Workers and Gold Diggers in the middle of NSW. A Bush Girl NOW WORRIES. Never Sung, Seen or Meant as Rasist by herself or her any of the People that worked or visited or lived around her Family Property. An many of those people were of Chinese and Indian Cultures. I ref to the recording of Dan W. Quinn "Chin Chin Chinaman", a song from the old play "The Geisha" of 1898 of "Berliner disc" records. Comeon Folk, A KIDS RHYME from the Late 1800s to Early 1900s can only be seen as being Racist by people with an "Axe to Grind". Lets be a bit more Adult about this type of thing Folks. Ching Chong Chinaman Very Very Sad Me Afraid All A Trade Very Very Bad Now Jack Brokey Broke Makey Shutty Shop Ching Chong Chinaman Chop Chop Chop Chinaman he Makey Money All e Lifey Long Wishy Washy Wishy Washy Wrong When He Try To Steal A Colar Policee Man He Come He Get Fine He Five a Dollar Plenty Much A Sum Ching Chong Chinaman Very Very Sad Me Afraid All A Trade Very Very Bad Now Jack Brokey Broke Makey Shutty Shop Ching Chong Chinaman Chop Chop Chop |
|
03 Dec 21 - 01:17 PM (#4127894) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song From: Steve Gardham Whilst only racists would want to glorify such material, we should be very wary of eradicating all reference to it as some seem to be suggesting. Eradicating all mention of Nazi atrocities or the worst aspects of colonialism do us no favours and whilst these are on a different level we need to remember them all for similar reasons, mainly so they don't happen again. |