08 Oct 04 - 08:06 PM (#1292739) Subject: Meaning of 'seanmas'- Gaelic? From: AllisonA(Animaterra) My beloved partner Byron formed a duo with a harpist, and they called themselves "Seanmas". Byron said he found the word somewhere on-line, and that it meant "minstrels" or "musicians" in Irish. I haven't been able to find this word, so am wondering if someone here can confirm or refute it. I have revived the duo with the harpist, and we want to keep the name, but want to be sure to use it correctly! I've tried to find an Irish-English on-line dictionary, but they all seem to need me to subscribe. Allison |
08 Oct 04 - 10:25 PM (#1292813) Subject: RE: Meaning of 'seanmas'- Gaelic? From: Jack Hickman Allison: I just checked in my Collins Irish-English Dictionary and could find no such listing. The word "sean" without an accent over the "a" means old. Maybe it's a corruption of an Irish word based on a phonetic sounding. Sorry I couldn't help, maybe someone with more knowledge of the language can help. Jack Hickman |
08 Oct 04 - 10:29 PM (#1292815) Subject: RE: Meaning of 'seanmas'- Gaelic? From: open mike i think there may be a type of music.. possibly unaccompanied ballad singing called sean nos or something like that? |
09 Oct 04 - 02:36 AM (#1292912) Subject: RE: Meaning of 'seanmas'- Gaelic? From: s&r There is - sean nos (old style) beautiful melodic ornamented and unaccompanied singing. Stu |
09 Oct 04 - 02:51 AM (#1292917) Subject: RE: Meaning of 'seanmas'- Gaelic? From: open mike thread here: http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=4429#24078 |
09 Oct 04 - 02:53 AM (#1292919) Subject: RE: Meaning of 'seanmas'- Gaelic? From: open mike and here: http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=4429#24078 or search for sean nos in the forum. |
09 Oct 04 - 03:24 AM (#1292930) Subject: RE: Meaning of 'seanmas'- Gaelic? From: GUEST,JTT Well, Ó Dónaill gives "seanma" as a version of the verb "seinm", "to play [music]". Maybe that's what they're after? |
09 Oct 04 - 06:38 AM (#1293022) Subject: RE: Meaning of 'seanmas'- Gaelic? From: AllisonA(Animaterra) Yes, I know about sean-nos, but that wasn't the word. I think "seanma" is maybe it. Perhaps Byron was making it plural- wish I could ask him. Any other insights? What is the word for minstrel or musician in Irish? Thanks, folks. Allison |
09 Oct 04 - 11:11 AM (#1293149) Subject: RE: Meaning of 'seanmas'- Gaelic? From: GUEST In my easy reference Dictionary, Minstrel translates to Oirfideach, although I've never heard anyone use that word, Brian |
09 Oct 04 - 11:16 AM (#1293152) Subject: RE: Meaning of 'seanmas'- Gaelic? From: GUEST The plural would be Oirfidigh. Brian |
09 Oct 04 - 11:21 AM (#1293155) Subject: RE: Meaning of 'seanmas'- Gaelic? From: MartinRyan The "s" is indeed unlikely as a Gaelic plural - can't think of an example offhand."seinn" (pronounced "shine"), to play, has forms ending in m, alright, as JTT says - though I'm not familiar with "seanma". "seinm" I know - usually as the what's-it-called verbal noun "playing" or in present participle "ag seinm" meaning, again, playing. "musician" is uaully translated as "ceoltoir" (sp.?) from "ceol" meaning music. There is also a noun "seinnadoir" (again, spelling uncertain till I check) meaning player. I'll check older forms when I find my dictionary! Regards |
09 Oct 04 - 11:31 AM (#1293163) Subject: RE: Meaning of 'seanmas'- Gaelic? From: Reiver 2 I'll ask about "seanmas" and the Irish word(s) for minstrel and musician in the Arizona Irish Music Society (AIMS) newsletter which is posted (email) each Wednesday. It goes to several thousand people -- not just in AZ -- so some reader should be able to help. Reiver 2 |
09 Oct 04 - 11:48 AM (#1293169) Subject: RE: Meaning of 'seanmas'- Gaelic? From: MartinRyan Also found This ironically enough, given that I'm sitting in my house in Galway! It is clearly an old Irish word (in the non-technical sense of not being current). Regards |
09 Oct 04 - 01:05 PM (#1293196) Subject: RE: Meaning of 'seanmas'- Gaelic? From: MartinRyan Dineen's early 20 C. dictionary has "seanmach" meaning melodious. Regards |
09 Oct 04 - 01:11 PM (#1293203) Subject: RE: Meaning of 'seanmas'- Gaelic? From: belfast As previously noted, 'sean' means 'old'; 'mas' is a literary word for 'beautiful'. Combine the two words and you will find "it was old but it was beautiful". |
09 Oct 04 - 03:41 PM (#1293269) Subject: RE: Meaning of 'seanmas'- Gaelic? From: AllisonA(Animaterra) This is great information! Thanks, everyone! |
09 Oct 04 - 04:08 PM (#1293284) Subject: RE: Meaning of 'seanmas'- Gaelic? From: MartinRyan This poem implies that "seanma" is used as the genitive of "seinm" - presumably Connemara Irish. This is presumably the sense in O'Donnell referred to by JTT above. Regards |
09 Oct 04 - 04:40 PM (#1293316) Subject: RE: Meaning of 'seanmas'- Gaelic? From: AllisonA(Animaterra) Martin, thanks for the link. What a poem- in English, at least. Wish I could understand the Irish (Louis de Paor's not bad, either!) Allison |
20 Oct 04 - 03:02 PM (#1302017) Subject: RE: Meaning of 'seanmas'- Gaelic? From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy he may have mis-remembered 'siansa' - symphony? but otherwise he might have seen a phrase like grupaí seanma RTE which as a genitive might be translated as a group of musicians, but seanmas doesn't really make sense. |
20 Oct 04 - 03:18 PM (#1302049) Subject: RE: Meaning of 'seanmas'- Gaelic? From: Seamus Kennedy Belfast - good one! Seamus |
27 Oct 04 - 12:05 PM (#1308735) Subject: RE: Meaning of 'seanmas'- Gaelic? From: Reiver 2 I don't know if Animaterra is still interested in exploring this, but here's another reply to my AIMS inquiry. In case anyone wants to open it up for Scots Gaelic; "Bryce, this added note is from a bona fide Scotsman living in Texas. Ceallach/Kelly In the Scots Gaelic a musician is a fear - ci^oil the accent ^ over the "O" a minstral would be either cruitear or cl^arsair the ^accent over the first "A" There is a definate difference between a musician and a minstral in the concept of the word. A musician plays an instrument. A minstral may act out while playing an instrument and usually tells a story, via a rhyme, poem or song. Hope this helps a bit. Dave" Reiver 2 |
27 Oct 04 - 12:12 PM (#1308741) Subject: RE: Meaning of 'seanmas'- Gaelic? From: AllisonA(Animaterra) Riever, I just saw this thread again- thanks so much! We're changing our name to Seanma- even though it may seem weird to use the genitive in a name. It's partly in memory of my beloved, who first found the word (albeit mistakenly!) and partly because we already have a few concerts booked as "Seanmas" and it will be easy enough to change! Thanks again- Allison |
30 Oct 04 - 04:36 PM (#1311655) Subject: RE: Meaning of 'seanmas'- Gaelic? From: GUEST I have not seen "seanmas" in any other context but could understand it from the title of the thread. The -s could be an ending to form a second (abstract) noun from an already existing one, in the same way as adding -ship forms musicianship from musician. Seinm is the act of playing so that seanmas would be some more abstract noun relating to the same. Deriving an abstract noun from the genitive form of a noun is not irregular and seanma is a genitive form of seinm. As Dinneen gives an adjectival form "seanmach" which means 'tuneful', seanmas could also be formed by removing the adjectival -ch and replacing it with the abstract -s giving "tunefulness" In my opinion, you are on safer ground with seanmas wherever it was found. |
18 Jul 10 - 10:13 AM (#2947096) Subject: RE: Meaning of 'seanmas'- Gaelic? From: GUEST My sister addresses herself as seanma. She says the loose translation is grandmother. Shrugs.....not sure myself. |
19 Jul 10 - 05:11 AM (#2947477) Subject: RE: Meaning of 'seanmas'- Gaelic? From: GUEST,^&* My sister addresses herself as seanma. She says the loose translation is grandmother. "Seanmháthair" is Irish for grandmother. The problem is that the "m" is pronounced as "v" or "w", depending on dialect. Your "seanma" sounds like a hybrid of "seanmháthair" and "grandma". Nice one. |