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09 Oct 04 - 09:03 PM (#1293479) Subject: Lyr Req: Stan Hugill's Unpublished Shanties From: Lighter I posted this suggestion to another thread the other day, but now I think it should be separate. As most Mudcat shanty singers know, Stan Hugill wrote in "Shanties from teh Seven Seas" that many of lyrics had to be "camouflaged" (Stan's word for "bowdlerized") before his publisher would print them, back in 1961. He turned the full texts over to folklorist G.Legman, however, in the expectation that Legman would publish them as part of his projected collection called "The Ballad Unexpurgated." Legman died before he was able to finish his book. Now there's a disturbing rumor circulating that Hugill's collection, which is/was one of the most significant folksong collections in English of the 20th century, has now disappeared or, in fact, never existed. Hugill himself told me in 1988 that the manuscript was real. He'd compiled it at Legman's request so that "if we're all blown up by an atom bomb the songs will survive." Maybe he was too optimistic. Legman stated in print several times that he'd promised to publish it. He did print two or three of Hugill's roughly thirty texts in the notes to Vance Randolph's bawdy folksong collection, "Blow the Candle Out" and "Roll Me in Your Arms," published by the University of Arkansas Press a dozen years ago. Maybe John Mehlberg knows something about the manuscript's whereabouts or whether, like a big chunk of the Percy Manuscript, it wound up used for kindling. Meanwhile - and here's where Mudcat comes in - Stan occasionally performed some of the bawdy shanties at late-night singalongs at Mystic Seaport and elsewhere. Any 'Catters who may have picked up lyrics from him in person can help posterity in a small way by posting what they remember. |
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10 Oct 04 - 09:03 AM (#1293743) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Stan Hugill's Unpublished Shanties From: Marc Bernier It was my understanding, that text went to Browen his widow. It was to be published to provide for her after he was gone. It has been her decision not to publish this now legendary collection. Who knows, maybe someday their sons Martin or Phillip will see fit to have it published. Anyhow the camouflage is pretty superficial. for the most part it doesn't take much imagination to figure out what the words were that he started out with. I don't recall Stan singing anything that took me by suprise very often. If your interested in bawdy chanties, there was a recording that came out at the festival in mystic last summer by a singer named Salty Dick. Some of the stuff on that recording I'd heard Stan sing. I'm sure someone here can find a copy for you. But as long as Browen is alive that book won't be published. |
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10 Oct 04 - 11:58 AM (#1293819) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Stan Hugill's Unpublished Shanties From: GUEST,Lighter at work Thank you, Marc Bernier. The camouflage seems superficial primarily when the originals have actually appeared, but no real scholar is going to bet on guessed-at reconstructions. Also, sometimes entire stanzas have been dropped rather than simply rewritten. The lyrics to the CD you refer to are on the Web. Few look to be from Stan's singing. IMHO the album reflects a decidedly contemporary sensibility. The decision not to publish is regrettable, though in some ways understandable. The important thing is that the manuscript and the lyrics be preserved for the unique light they shed on sailors' culture in the Age of Sail. |
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10 Oct 04 - 02:03 PM (#1293880) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Stan Hugill's Unpublished Shanties From: Lady Hillary EBarnacle here--I had a related discussion with Stan several times at Mystic and other festivals. On occasion, I asked him what his backup plan was, as Legman was being dilatory about publishing. He stated that he wanted him to be 'the man' and that he had no intent of going outside the arrangement he had. He was also very firm about not passing other "pure" chanteys which he had not sent to Legman. He did, however, sing more than a few of them in the late night sessions. |
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10 Oct 04 - 03:15 PM (#1293914) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Stan Hugill's Unpublished Shanties From: Lighter Fascinating, EBarnacle! This is something brand-new, lyrics that Stan wouldn't even write down. Maybe this explains the otherwise unexplained seven-stanza gap in Legman's printing of "The Hog-Eye Man." I'd always assumed that was the result of Legman's own editing, but now.... |
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10 Oct 04 - 05:45 PM (#1293984) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Stan Hugill's Unpublished Shanties From: GUEST,Dockside Doxy Have talked to Bronwen re this topic - NO BOOK EVER EXISTED - it was a standard "naughty" comment he used to make! |
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11 Oct 04 - 05:01 PM (#1294556) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Stan Hugill's Unpublished Shanties From: GUEST,Barrie Roberts I don't pretend to know if any book ever really existed, but on the subject of reconstructing bowdlerised songs, I recall standing with Stan Hugill at the back of the Peanuts Club in Birmingham in about 1967 while one of Brum's finest 'shantymen' was busy a-shantying like mad. Stan turned to me and said, 'They always try and guess the dirty bits and they always guess wrong. We were far dirtier than that'. On the same occasion we got onto the same topic at the place where Stan was staying after the gig. Under much pressure he finally agreed to sing us the unexpurgated 'Bollocky Bill the Sailor'. He started well, but began to falter and finally stopped and said, 'It's no use! I can't do it. You young buggers were brought up to sing filth in front of ladies, but I can't!' |
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11 Oct 04 - 06:08 PM (#1294638) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Stan Hugill's Unpublished Shanties From: maldenny Talking about Stan Hugill, I've got around a dozen copies of the old Spinners magazine called, appropriately enough, "Spin". Stan Hugil wrote an article each month on sea shanties, and not all of the shanties in Spin made it to his book "Shanties of the Seven Seas". I'm looking at one right now called 'Strike the Bell', a pump shanty. (It might be in under a different name I suppose, it's a long while since I read the book through. A collection of his writings for "Spin" would make an invaluable resource - there's much more description and sketches with each article. |
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12 Oct 04 - 02:17 AM (#1294939) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Stan Hugill's Unpublished Shanties From: pavane I seem to remember Nic Jones singing Strike the Bell. In fact, I have it on tape somewhere from when he came to Pontardawe (c1973). Same tune as Click go the Shears. |
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12 Oct 04 - 03:35 AM (#1294950) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Stan Hugill's Unpublished Shanties From: BanjoRay It is of course in the database: Strike The Bell. Hi Mal! Ray |
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12 Oct 04 - 07:49 AM (#1295060) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Stan Hugill's Unpublished Shanties From: maldenny Hi Ray! Is there a collection of the 'Spin' articles anywhere other than in Spin? |
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12 Oct 04 - 09:26 AM (#1295144) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Stan Hugill's Unpublished Shanties From: Charley Noble "Strike the Bell" was printed in Stan Hugill's other songbook SONGS OF THE SEA, p. 44. It's possible that more of the songs in this book were excerpted from Spin. This songbook is out of print but usually available on the used books websites at a reasonable cost. Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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12 Oct 04 - 11:19 AM (#1295250) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Stan Hugill's Unpublished Shanties From: Lighter Stan included some information from the earlier articles in his second book and a handful of the later songs, including "Rolling Down to Old Maui," in his third. At least one song I heard him sing, "The Indian Maid," is not in any of his books, though it does appear on his final CD. Can the "Spin" articles be reproduced? I've seen two or three and they are quite interesting. An OCR would be better than nothing, but it woulod be a shame to lose Stan's accompanying sketches. |
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13 Oct 04 - 09:00 AM (#1296089) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Stan Hugill's Unpublished Shanties From: Compton It is of little importance but there is a small tribute to Stan Hugill in the tourist office in Aberdovey, Wales when I was recently there. Seemingly, Stan spent most of his later years involved with a Nautical School on the Harbour. yes I know it's not got anything to really do with the thread.. But I bet there are many in that town that remember him |
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13 Oct 04 - 05:27 PM (#1296392) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Stan Hugill's Unpublished Shanties From: Susanne (skw) I second Lighter's suggestion (copyright permitting). Wouldn't there be room for the articles somewhere on the Mudcat? |
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14 Oct 04 - 09:16 AM (#1296854) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Stan Hugill's Unpublished Shanties From: GUEST,Guest I suppose some of the Spinners might have complete sets of 'Spin', so all the articles should be available. They'd make a great website, but who holds the copyright now? How long does it last? Wouldn't like to do anyone out of their just deserts! |
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14 Oct 04 - 09:42 AM (#1296873) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Stan Hugill's Unpublished Shanties From: Roger the Skiffler Contact Hugh Jones Ex-Spinner shanty singer here:HERE RtS |
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16 Oct 04 - 12:07 PM (#1298449) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Stan Hugill's Unpublished Shanties From: Susanne (skw) Guest, they'll still hold the copyright if they were the publishers, but as there's no prospect of making money from these old pieces they might agree to have them put on the Mudcat if people were found to do the actual work. (I'd offer to proofread, which will certainly be necessary wíth scanned material.) |
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16 Oct 04 - 01:44 PM (#1298501) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Stan Hugill's Unpublished Shanties From: GUEST,Mal They'd make quite a nice book if they were scanned and edited to fit onto complete pages. There must be quite a few of them - I don't know how long 'Spin' was published or how many articles there are in total. |
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17 Oct 04 - 11:11 AM (#1299018) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Stan Hugill's Unpublished Shanties From: GUEST,Jan @ Chantey Cabin Good News - Bad News All these articles have been compiled and are ready to go to the publishers - we are currently awaiting permission from Tony Davis (who holds the copyright) for permission. And the most economical price quote from the local printing companies. If you have some interest in Stan's work go to stanhugill.com for some news only released about an hour ago! regarding the 100th anniversary of his birth. Jan |
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17 Oct 04 - 01:59 PM (#1299108) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Stan Hugill's Unpublished Shanties From: Susanne (skw) Jan, that's certainly good news, even though you don't seem to be holding your breath as to "the most economical price quote from the local printing companies". I trust you'll keep us up to date! |
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17 Oct 04 - 07:20 PM (#1299296) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Stan Hugill's Unpublished Shanties From: Noreen Re. Jan's breaking news, see thread: STAN HUGILL'S 100th BIRTHDAY BASH |