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07 Nov 04 - 04:14 PM (#1319805) Subject: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Blissfully Ignorant I mean, it's a very big country...very diverse...it's a bit unfair to call all Americans fat or stupid. Or both. |
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07 Nov 04 - 04:21 PM (#1319816) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Gypsy Bless yer heart! I for one, resent generalities. Gotta take people case by case. |
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07 Nov 04 - 04:30 PM (#1319833) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Fishpicker Kind of like making a statement that all brits are skinny and sallow with unkempt hair, yellow snaggle teeth and dandruff all over the shoulders of thier thread bare tweed sport coats eh! Check it out, almost half of Americans didn't vote for bush. FP |
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07 Nov 04 - 04:35 PM (#1319838) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: GUEST Ummmm - look at the photographs of the MCer's from America
Then - match the photo to the intelligence displayed in postings - and proliferation of threads about disease complaints.
There is a reason that particular stereotypes have developed - there is an underlying truth.
On the otherhand, it is commonly attributed to the English that they are wanking, pasty-faced, in-breds, with no talent for engineering or cooking, who enjoy wearing ribbons and bows while dancing male to male. |
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07 Nov 04 - 04:38 PM (#1319842) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Once Famous You mean, that's not true, Fishpicker? Prove it! |
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07 Nov 04 - 04:48 PM (#1319852) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Fishpicker No, it's true. I didn't want to hurt anyones feelings by making a generalization and stating that it was a fact but you smoked me out. FP |
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07 Nov 04 - 04:56 PM (#1319859) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Once Famous Thanks, Fishpicker. Now I don't think that you are a buttpicker. |
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07 Nov 04 - 04:58 PM (#1319862) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Bill D all people who make broad generalizations are __ ___ ___ _____ __. |
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07 Nov 04 - 05:03 PM (#1319868) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Once Famous .............people who generally like broads. |
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07 Nov 04 - 06:30 PM (#1319934) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: *daylia* Why are we generalising about Americans? Well Blissfully, who's "we"? Did you mean Mudcatters? Or Mudcatters and GUESTS? Or only *certain* (special-type) Mudcatters? Or all people who post on the internet? Maybe just people, in general? Hmmm ... it might be of some general help if you'd ever so generously tell us (in general terms) how you yourself happened to generalise about generalising about Americans. |
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07 Nov 04 - 06:47 PM (#1319955) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: McGrath of Harlow "Check it out, almost half of Americans didn't vote for Bush." Far more than that. Almost half of them didn't vote for anyone. You get their point too. When non-Americans are rude about Americans it often means they are looking at what they expect they might be like a few years down the one, and they don't like the thought. It's a kind of "God Forbid!" But generally the kind of things people go on about when in that mood are the same things a whole lot of Americans don't much like too. ................................................. As for "yellow teeth" - human teeth aren't meant to be shiny white, and never have been. A mouthful of glittering white shiny teeth are quite a scary sight really... |
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07 Nov 04 - 08:35 PM (#1320034) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Fishpicker Hey, its all good! Just doing a little recipricle chop busting. Fact is most Brits I've had the pleasure to meet , I have liked. We are , after all, two great nations divided by a common language. Oh yeah, my teeth aren't really all that white either. =8^) FP |
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07 Nov 04 - 08:43 PM (#1320043) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: pdq "fishpicker?"... sounds like musician who really knows his scales... |
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07 Nov 04 - 09:22 PM (#1320060) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Blissfully Ignorant Well, it was in response to all the 'americans are fat and stupid' threads. Just thought i'd even it out a bit... |
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07 Nov 04 - 10:25 PM (#1320106) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: jimmyt I think it is refreshing that Blissfully Ignorant, one of our youngest members, has the insight to start this thread. Maybe blissful, but certainly not ignorant. Thanks for the breath of fresh air. |
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08 Nov 04 - 02:31 AM (#1320175) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Gurney 'WE' are not generalising about Americans. Include me out. One fact that I've gleaned in the last couple of years is that Americans have more varieties than Heinz, and are just folks, like Aussies, Poms, Japanese, Icelanders, and all the rest of us. How the Hell could anyone generalise in a group that includes Blind Drunk in Blind River and ,say Little Hawk or Uncle Dave O? |
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08 Nov 04 - 05:45 AM (#1320245) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: GUEST,Captain Blighty I have met a few Yankees thorugh music and the like, and every one has been a pleasure to have met. Easy going, intelligent, maybe lacking that deep seated sarcasm that most brits ave, but thats just difference in culture for ya. All in all, most people on this earth are just trying to live decent fulfilling lives, unfortunatley its the power mad minority who actually ru(i)n the show. So if ya stick to mudslinging cos of nationality, ya just doing what the lizard-people want you to do. Captain Blighty of Ilkley moor bah t'at |
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08 Nov 04 - 06:10 AM (#1320254) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: InOBU Yea and don't forget a lot of Americans are Mexican and Canadian! |
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08 Nov 04 - 06:53 AM (#1320275) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: jacqui.c Unlike my ex-husband who wouldn't travel to the USA because 'it was full of Americans and you get mugged over there' (one of the reasons he's my ex!) I have found, from personal experience, that folks is folks - most I like, a few I don't,wherever you go. In my short time here I've met some outstandingly great people, at the Getaway and other places, and just two who p****d me off sufficiently to go on my s**t list for life. That'a about the same ratio as in the UK, and yes, I'm sure that I'm on someone else's s**t list in both countries - you can't like and be liked by everyone! Generalisations seem to be used by those who need an excuse for their own prejudices on the whole and, as most prejudice seeems to come down to fear of the unknown or a need to maintain the status quo I'm not sure how you get past it. Just ignore it? |
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08 Nov 04 - 07:02 AM (#1320278) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Mr Red thankyou *daylia* wot I wus goin tu say. I see so many aspersions containing "American" & "irony" and my mind wanders to Tom Lehrer, Stan Freeburg, Ambrose Bierce, Samuel Clerments (reports of his death are not exagerated) Dorathy Parker, Sid Perelman (tell me when to stop) |
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08 Nov 04 - 07:06 AM (#1320280) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: George Papavgeris Like Guerney, please count me out from the "we". But if one rephrases the question to say "Why do some /so many people here on Mudcat are generalising about Americans?" then the most likely answer is : "Intellectual laziness". They cannot be arsed to consider individuals on their merits and, driven by stereotypes, they take the easy option of generalising. Note also that I said "consider"; the truth is that some people go beyond that, and they happily judge others summarily by virtue of accent or nationality or looks or educational level or musical preferences or... the list is long. Racism is not the only "-ism" that is abhorrent. |
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08 Nov 04 - 07:59 AM (#1320322) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: *daylia* I think something important is being overlooked here. People outside the US see the situation there a lot more objectively - (ie minus a whole whack of fear, anger, pride, cultural conditioning etc). From that perspective, it's simply unimaginable that anyone in their right mind would vote to continue what's been going on there for the last 4 years. From the "bird's eye view" afforded to rest of the world, a vote for the Bush administration looks no different than a vote to continue, say, gnawing off your own arm or sawing off your own head. After watching 52% of the nation in question's population vote for that very thing, is it so hard to understand why the question remains .... WHY? So let's have a bit of compassion for the "generalizers". I think they're still in a state of shock. Given time, they WILL get over it. daylia |
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08 Nov 04 - 08:26 AM (#1320338) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Ron Davies Please don't leave us out of "deep-seated sarcasm" either--some of us have that too. |
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08 Nov 04 - 09:33 AM (#1320399) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Charmion Because it's easy and -- until somebody calls us on it -- fun. We Canadians in particular love to feel superior to our bigger, richer, stronger neighbours, and the making of snarky remarks is the only field in which we consistently outstrip them. If I had a nickel for every anecdote I've heard about dumb American tourists (e.g., the ski-bearing car on Wellington Street in August), I could buy a round of pints for the entire membership of the Mudcat Cafe. |
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08 Nov 04 - 10:59 AM (#1320486) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Maryrrf Just don't forget that 48% of DIDN'T vote for Bush, and many of us Americans are appalled at what's going on. Don't lump us all together, please. Personally I don't ever remember seeing the nation so polarized, except perhaps around Vietnam. |
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08 Nov 04 - 11:20 AM (#1320514) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Uncle_DaveO Blissfully Ignorant said, in part: mean, it's a very big country...very diverse...it's a bit unfair to call all Americans fat or stupid. Or both. Well, I'm an American. I have to admit to being fat, but stupid, no. It's considered bad form to name your IQ, I know, so I'll just say that mine ain't too shaggy. Actually, on the subject of generalization, remember that All generalizations are false. Including this one. Dave Oesterreich |
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08 Nov 04 - 11:30 AM (#1320528) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: McGrath of Harlow In fact seventy per cent of Americans of voting age didn't vote for Bush. But surely the reason "Americans" tend to get teased is mostly the same reason anyone gets teased - because enough of them are so very sensitive about it and get so indignant. I see it as a kind of humility. People who really feel cocky about themselves don't worry about being teased, they just see it as a kind of tribute. "Why are Morris Dancers so fat" - can you imagine anybody getting worked up about that? |
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08 Nov 04 - 04:00 PM (#1320648) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: DougR Because a large percentage of American mudcatters will believe anything that comes down the pike if it is critical of the United States. Bash America, and they love it! DougR |
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08 Nov 04 - 04:02 PM (#1320652) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: chris nightbird childs Right now, I think we deserve a good niggling over here... |
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08 Nov 04 - 04:04 PM (#1320656) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Little Hawk Oh man, Doug, you have it easy! You ought to go outside the borders of Amerika and hear what people are saying... |
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08 Nov 04 - 04:45 PM (#1320707) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: GUEST Typical, condescending ,down yer bluidy nose codswallop we've all come to love |
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08 Nov 04 - 04:54 PM (#1320716) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Little Hawk I cringe at the thought of the barrage of fury we are about to receive from the Dimensionally-Challenged Morris Dancers Advocacy Association.... |
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08 Nov 04 - 05:24 PM (#1320741) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Bill D "... so I'll just say that mine ain't too shaggy." why, Uncle Dave...anyone with a decently developed IQ would KNOW that the correct word there is "shabby"... *ducking for cover* |
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08 Nov 04 - 05:29 PM (#1320750) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: jimmyt Little Hawk. I have been out of the US many times in the last few years, including to Canada a couple times. I have to say that on no occasion did I encounter ANY people who said anything derogatory to any Americans. I have made an effort to seek out people who were not influenced by me eating at their resturant or staying at their hotel, I am talking normal regular people who had nothing except positive things to say. I think it is important that people know this. NOw maybe I have only been exposed to all the nice folks, but so far, I have had people react and treat me like I have them. Like another decent human being, just doing my best. |
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08 Nov 04 - 05:35 PM (#1320757) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: GUEST,Boab Martin G. and Doug R. Most of the postings on this thread are constructive. Most folks have valid reason for their beliefs. So that we all at last know, what are yours? |
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08 Nov 04 - 07:10 PM (#1320840) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Blissfully Ignorant I'm from the most self-effacing nation on Earth, and we still get teased... |
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08 Nov 04 - 07:15 PM (#1320845) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Cluin Bliss, are you Canadian too? |
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08 Nov 04 - 08:00 PM (#1320897) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Ron Davies Daylia 7:59AM: a vote for Bush is "the same as sawing off your head"---couldn't have put it better myself. With Bush, a head, with the thinking that implies, is precisely what's missing. We'll all get over it--in 4 years, if he doesn't do something particularly stupid and dangerous in the meantime. I think his willingness to sacrifice world nuclear safety to the wishes of a few US firms fits nicely in the stupidly shortsighted, venal, possibly dangerous category. |
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08 Nov 04 - 08:00 PM (#1320898) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: McGrath of Harlow I cringe at the thought of the barrage of fury we are about to receive from the Dimensionally-Challenged Morris Dancers Advocacy Association.... Well, I suppose, there are Morris Dancers in America, so perhaps that could happen... ....................... There's a quote that comes to mind in these kinds of discussions: "As far as criticism is concerned, we don't resent that unless it is absolutely biased, as it is in most cases" Who said that? Put it in Google and find out... |
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08 Nov 04 - 08:20 PM (#1320915) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Cluin You heard Bush in his speech the other day?... "We will reach out our hands to those who share our goals..." That's a fine spirit of gracious elitism. Was that the Royal "We", by the way? |
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08 Nov 04 - 08:38 PM (#1320937) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Little Hawk Well, no jimmyT, I wouldn't think you would have heard derogatory remarks directed toward Americans. That's not really what I was referring to. I was referring to sharp criticism of recent American foreign and economic policy. That's not the first thing one is going to start talking about casually to an American visitor, I wouldn't think. Most people in most places try to be polite and friendly to visitors. One talks politics more with people one knows, when sitting down for a more lengthy conversation together. Now, I saw this Morris Dancer the other day that was so damn fat that he....(running for cover) |
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08 Nov 04 - 09:21 PM (#1320973) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Cluin I have often heard disparaging remarks about Americans in Canada. We all have. (I've heard them in Britain and Ireland too) Why?... Because there are just as many stupid Canadians as there are stupid Americans. For those kind of people, it wouldn't matter what side of the border they lived on; they'd still be looking down their noses at the "other" side. I've heard quite a few non-flattering things about Canadians when I've been in the States too. Doesn't really mean much; it's just people blowing hot air around. They're mostly speaking from ignorance (but a few WERE really mean-spirited). When they realized I was Canadian, they were quick to backtrack and say "Well, not ALL Canadians..." etc., etc. Unless they were drunk.... I'm sure you wouldn't hear much in the way of anti-American comments, jimmyt. For several reasons: first, you probably only met good people, right? ;) And even if they weren't good folks, they were probably either chickenshits or they wanted your money. |
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08 Nov 04 - 09:26 PM (#1320980) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Blissfully Ignorant No, i'm not Canadian...it's worse, much much worse. I'm Scottish.:0) |
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08 Nov 04 - 09:28 PM (#1320981) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: dianavan jimmyt - What Littlehawk says is true. Canadian are far too polite to confront an American tourist on economic policy or foreign policy. They are, however, watching your every move so they can go home and laugh with their friends and family about that obnoxious guy from the States who actually... And they have no trouble at all in criticizing your system, your slums, your guns and your narrow perspective on the world. They would never, however, be impolite. d |
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09 Nov 04 - 12:34 AM (#1321120) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: sledge Looks like the US has found itself a new King George with his grandiose military ambitions, the last King George was barking mad as well. Sledge |
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09 Nov 04 - 12:39 AM (#1321124) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Peace "No, i'm not Canadian...it's worse, much much worse. I'm Scottish.:0)" You think YOU got problems. I am Canadian and my name's Bruce Murdoch. |
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09 Nov 04 - 12:41 AM (#1321126) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Peace "Because a large percentage of American mudcatters will believe anything that comes down the pike if it is critical of the United States. Bash America, and they love it!" Doug, that isn't yer best post. |
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09 Nov 04 - 01:34 AM (#1321155) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Ellenpoly "Bash America, and they love it!" Doug, do you really think that people who were born in America take great pleasure in critisising it? Do you think we wake up every morning thinking gleefully to ourselves, "What can we find to complain about today?" I can think of lots of ways I'd rather spend my time and energy than to be upset and disappointed and frightened for my birth country, believe me. But because I was born in a land which holds such promise, and so many opportunities, and has such power in the world, I am using my education and experiences (many of which derived while living and traveling in my birth country) the only way I think is responsible; by not hiding from the truth when I learn it, and not being afraid to speak against the lies when I discover them. That is my American Legacy. ..xx..e |
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09 Nov 04 - 02:30 AM (#1321186) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: mack/misophist If a person is going to talk about any large group, I don't see how generalization can be avoided. Statistics wouldn't exist if there weren't a basis for generalization. One just has to be a little cautious. Are Americans fat? Our National Institute for Health says we are. Are Americans stupid. I say we are. Sometimes. |
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09 Nov 04 - 04:13 AM (#1321225) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Gurney Off topic, I'd say the most self-denigrating nation are the Irish. Did you ever notice who tells the irish jokes? The good ones, anyway. The Jews are good at it, too. Not the few Israelis I've met, though. |
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09 Nov 04 - 04:35 AM (#1321241) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Stu Americans shouldn't worry about being swept up in appalling generalisations. According to some, if you are English then you must be a relative of Oliver Cromwell as well as being personally responisble for every incident our army has visited on our neighbours since time began (in another thread, someone actually said the first Norman invasion of Ireland was the first English occupation). The point I am trying to make is it's all bollocks. Some Americans think dropping cluster bombs on Iraqis is a good idea, some do not - so people's indignation when being lumped in with the 'other lot' is understandable. These generalisations say more about the people uttering them than they do about the people being targeted by the comments. |
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09 Nov 04 - 06:29 AM (#1321284) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: McGrath of Harlow Americans do tell good jokes against themselves in my experience - but generally they are about regions and States. I've heard plenty of Texas jokes and Yankee jokes, and my impression is that Texans and Yankees are able to enjoy them. But maybe the USA as a whole is too big and too varied and uncertain of its collective identity for that kind of thing. I've never heard any good European Union jokes either (I don't mean ones about bureaucracy and that, though I haven't actually heasrd many good ones there either). And behind all this there's a difference between jokes which are friendly and jokes which are contemptuous. Smiling cheerfully at a joke that is intended as an insult is not necessarily the right way to treat it. |
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09 Nov 04 - 06:44 AM (#1321290) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: *daylia* dianavan, now you've gone and told all our secrets! Listen up folks; with one foot on either side of the fence, this lady knows what she's talking about ;-) In fact seventy per cent of Americans of voting age didn't vote for Bush Sheds a bit of a different light on the situation, don't it? Thanks for that, McGrath. And by the way, here's your attribution ... QUOTATION: As far as criticism is concerned, we don't resent that unless it is absolutely biased, as it is in most cases. ATTRIBUTION: John Vorster (1915–1983), South African politician, prime minister. Quoted in Observer (London, Nov. 9, 1969). Funny, as I re-read my own words above ie People outside the US see the situation there a lot more objectively - (ie minus a whole whack of fear, anger, pride, cultural conditioning etc) I was thinking - right. We have our own whacks of fear, anger, pride, cultural conditioning to contend with instead. *sigh* I felt so much better when I just KNEW I was 100% right ;-) We Canadians in particular love to feel superior to our bigger, richer, stronger neighbours, and the making of snarky remarks is the only field in which we consistently outstrip them. Hmmm I can think of a few more, actually; * shovelling snow * swearing at snow * swearing at snow in awful to godawful French * growing hockey players * growing figure skaters * growing moose * growing polar bears * growing beer * growing peace * growing pot * conceiving kids on ski lifts * conceiving kids in canoes * really gettin Inuit Ok on that note it's on with the woolies and out the door ... Venus, Jupiter and the crescent moon are having this absolutely heavenly menage a trois out there, right now! I kid you not ... check it out! |
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09 Nov 04 - 09:02 AM (#1321360) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Little Hawk Brucie, are you aware that Hillary Clinton has somehow lobbied the blow-up doll industry to such an extent that one cannot obtain a Hillary Clinton blow-up doll ANYWHERE! Not even on Ebay! I am chilled by the degree of influence that woman has and I find it deeply disturbing. God help us all if she ever becomes president! |
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09 Nov 04 - 11:33 AM (#1321508) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: GUEST,bbc at work I do not understand why people feel the need to generalize about any group. It is almost always negative & divisive. The thread that was referred to was the one that caused me to become less active in Mudcat. bbc |
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09 Nov 04 - 12:40 PM (#1321586) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: jimmyt Only Little Hawk would be concerned about access to a blow up doll. Take heart,buddy, I will send you mine when I am finished with it. You may want to lysol her a bit but otherwise, good as new |
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09 Nov 04 - 12:42 PM (#1321593) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: jimmyt I must caution you, Little Hawk, those snow shoes we AMericans have heard you Canadians wear, may puncture her in the hear of passion, so be judicious |
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09 Nov 04 - 12:50 PM (#1321603) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Little Hawk Jimmy, you are a gentleman and a scholar! And you are so right about the snowshoes. Skates are even worse. I generally make a habit of doffing all outdoor footware prior to engaging in such activities. :-) |
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09 Nov 04 - 09:07 PM (#1322125) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: McGrath of Harlow I do not understand why people feel the need to generalize about any group. Making generalisations about groups of people and things is and always has been a normal part of how we deal with each other. Sometimes it's done as a way of structuring the world, sometimes it's done in fun, as a kind of game Sometime it's done in hate and contempt, and when that happens it needs to be sat on hard. But that's no reason to rule it out in other cases. "I love folk music" is an example of a valid and useful generalisation. But of course it doesn't mean that there aren't some types of music that can reasonably be described as folk music about which I am less than enthusiastic. "Mudcatters are a good bunch" - but some of them (very few) are not too nice at all. I continue to be bewildered why anyone should have got aerated about a thread such as "Why are Americans fat?", but a lot if people did. Would a thread asking "Why are Americans so sensitive?" be equally likely to draw fire? I won't risk it. |
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09 Nov 04 - 09:36 PM (#1322146) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: bbc Primarily, McGrath, because it's misleading & unfriendly. I, for instance, am American & am not fat. The other reason is that there is no good purpose in saying it. Barbara |
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10 Nov 04 - 01:19 PM (#1322546) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: McGrath of Harlow But if it had been "Why are Morris Dancers so fat?" it would have been equally untrue about quite a few Morris Dancers, but I doubt very much if there'd have been many people getting upset. It wouldn't have been seen as an insult of any signifcance, or even as an insult at all. Or, I suspect, if it been "Why are Australians so fat?" Or Tongans for that matter, to name a country where being fat is considered a good thing, on the whole. I rather like the term "traditionally built", which is the term used in Alexander McCall Smith's excellent series of books set in Botswana. |
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10 Nov 04 - 01:21 PM (#1322550) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: McGrath of Harlow But if it had been "Why are Morris Dancers so fat?" it would have been equally untrue about quite a few Morris Dancers, but I doubt very much if there'd have been many people getting upset. It wouldn't have been seen as an insult. Or, I suspect, if it been "Why are Australians so fat?" Or Tongans for that matter, to name a country where being fat is considered a good thing, on the whole. I rather like the term "traditionally built", which is the term used in Alexander McCall Smith's excellent series of books set in Botswana. |
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10 Nov 04 - 01:32 PM (#1322567) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: DougR L.H.: You still have not got my message, which should be clear enough even for an intellectual such as yourself. I personally don't give a damn what people in other countries think about our president! We just had an election for president, not a popularity contest (though Bush handily won the popular vote too!) As to getting out and about, I just returned last month from three weeks driving through Scotland and Ireland. Is that out an about enough for you? I didn't hear one negative word about the President or the United States in either country. I admit, though, the press was not too kindly to Bush. So? DougR |
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10 Nov 04 - 02:03 PM (#1322606) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: GUEST Both countries enjoy the revenue generated by tourists. They are not going to bite the hand that feeds them. You wouldn't hear anything negative. But thats because they're smart. |
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10 Nov 04 - 03:42 PM (#1322700) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: kendall Stereotypes afford us the luxury of not thinking. But, eventually, they will extract the PRICE of our not thinking. (Jean Harris, author of Stranger in two worlds) Doug, why is it that you right wing types just don't understand that we are NOT bashing America? We are bashing Bush. Bush is NOT America! We didn't invade the wrong country, We didn't blow a huge surplus by giving it to the rich,We didn't run up an astronomical debt, We didn't lie about W.M.D. BUSH DID! |
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10 Nov 04 - 04:25 PM (#1322734) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: McGrath of Harlow No, it isn't just a matter of not biting the hand with the credit card. It's also a matter of being friendly to strangers, which is pretty common in Ireland, and I imagine in Scotland, and that's genuine friendliness. I am pretty certain that, if I'd run into Doug on his travels over here, I would have avoided talking about those kinds of things, once I'd twigged how he felt about them, because it would just be an unfriendly way of treating a guest. Here on the Mudcat it's different, because we are all at home here. Now I suspect that if some other Mudcatters were to make the same trip they would find a whole lot of people who'd be happy to share their opinion about Bush, and probably buy them a drink to show it wasn't a matter of having anything against Americans. What people do, more especially in Ireland, is test out where the visitor stands before deciding how open to be about this sort of stuff. Some people think there is something dishonest about that. I think it's just good manners. |
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10 Nov 04 - 04:28 PM (#1322739) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Once Famous Bush is America Kendall. I believe it was about 282 electoral votes worth of America. |
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10 Nov 04 - 05:15 PM (#1322779) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Greg F. No, Martin, this is America and if the majority of voters believe this nonsense, then they are, indeed, idiots and the generalizations aren't too far off: "Bush supporters apparently live in a world of their own The Program on International Policy Attitudes (pipa.org) found in surveys done in September and October that, contrary to established and well-publicized facts: - 75% believe Iraq was providing substantial support to al Qaeda. - 74% believe Bush favors including labor and environmental standards in agreements on trade. - 72% believe Iraq had weapons of mass destruction or a program to develop them. - 72% believe Bush supports the treaty banning land mines. - 69% believe Bush supports the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty. - 61% believe ff Bush had known there were no WMD he would not have gone to war. - 58% believe the Duelfer report concluded that Iraq had either WMD or a major program to develop them. - 57% believe that the majority of people in the world want Bush reelected. - 55% believe the 9/11 report conduded Iraq was providing substantial support to al Qaeda. - 51% believe Bush supports the Kyoto treaty to conlrol global warming. - 20% believe Iraq was directly involved in 9/11." |
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10 Nov 04 - 05:21 PM (#1322787) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Once Famous No greg F. those are words that you cut and pasted here. They have no basis whatsoever to be believed and the fact that YOU posted them here even makes them even less credible. Why should I believe this organization who did this survey at all? |
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10 Nov 04 - 05:36 PM (#1322807) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: *Laura* I feel sorry for all you Americans who DIDN'T vote for Bush and who are now being grouped into the stupid category. You obviously realise the French do have a word for entrepreneur - and are therefore alright in my book! xLx |
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10 Nov 04 - 05:41 PM (#1322811) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Greg F. They have no basis whatsoever to be believed and the fact that YOU posted them here even makes them even less credible. Now, that really is amusing, considering the absolute shit you consistently post. Why should I believe this organization who did this survey at all? Well, its a University of Maryland study, for one- check the URL- one helluva lot more credible than your proven lying sacks of shit Boy George & his handlers, for example. |
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10 Nov 04 - 05:52 PM (#1322820) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: kendall FIGHT, FIGHT!! |
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10 Nov 04 - 05:53 PM (#1322823) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Once Famous That doesn't mean anything and so what if it is the University of Maryland. By the way. Bush won. Maybe it was for other reasons. Like because Kerry is a big loser. |
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10 Nov 04 - 06:04 PM (#1322831) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Greg F. That doesn't mean anything and so what if it is the University of Maryland Quod Erat Demonstrandum. Thanks for the corroborative evidence of rampant idiocy & invincible ignorance on the rise in the U.S. I appreciate your assistance. |
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10 Nov 04 - 07:34 PM (#1322883) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: GUEST get a life loser |
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10 Nov 04 - 08:05 PM (#1322917) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Ron Davies Ah, now we've again heard from that well-respected and courageous political analyst "Martin Gibson". That's right, "Martin"--Bush is America, just like Thatcher was the UK. But it's possible some Mudcatters---- (and anybody else who can think)---- may differ. Sorry, "Martin", if the distinction is too complex for you to grasp. |
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10 Nov 04 - 08:26 PM (#1322928) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: McGrath of Harlow "Bush is America" - now that really is a nasty thing to say. It's just a way of stirring up hatred against The States. If peopoe around the world ever started to believe that was true it would be a sad day. ................. "L'etat c'est moi" that was Louis XIV. "Apres moi, le deluge" le deluge" - that was Louis XIV. And Louis XVI? They chopped his head off. These things take time, but in time they happen. (Actually Lous XVI's last words on the scaffold were pretty fine: "I die innocent of all the crimes laid to my charge; I Pardon those who have occasioned my death; and I pray to God that the blood you are going to shed may never be visited on France.") |
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11 Nov 04 - 01:23 AM (#1323150) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Little Hawk Even an intellectual???? Just what are you suggesting when you say that, Doug? :-) (Is it as bad as being a "liberal"?) |
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11 Nov 04 - 02:29 AM (#1323183) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: GUEST,Boab You obviously didn't happen to run into Boab when you were in Scotland, Doug! In fact I'd guess that you kept the conversation well clear of politics?---and Iraq? |
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11 Nov 04 - 03:20 AM (#1323206) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Ellenpoly I didn't know where to put this...so here it is...xx..e "THOSE WHO CAST THE VOTES DECIDE NOTHING. THOSE WHO COUNT THE VOTES DECIDE EVERYTHING." ....................Josef Stalin |
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11 Nov 04 - 03:41 AM (#1323217) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: chris nightbird childs That's a beautiful quote... THE TRUTH! |
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11 Nov 04 - 09:13 AM (#1323241) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Little Hawk The surest way to enslave a people is to # 1 convince them (from birth) that they are free. They will then assist willingly in perpetuating their own enslavement and will help to police each other at the same time. This can effectively be done through a controlled media, the use of fear directed at various exterior "enemies" of convenience, and the encouragement of conformity in every mode of life. |
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11 Nov 04 - 10:56 AM (#1323329) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: GUEST,noddy because they think they are all generals! |
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11 Nov 04 - 10:57 AM (#1323330) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: GUEST,noddy or should be! |
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11 Nov 04 - 12:41 PM (#1323409) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Bo Vandenberg I agree. Would all Americans approach the microphone, one at a time so that we can talk about them individually. We have 7000 odd people talking about the election and various issues today so please try and answer all questions quickly and succinctly! Tomorrows news will be full of how America has slowed to a crawl to answer questions and how much the microphone & broadcast people are making. sigurd :) Because you know America is famous for its genuine interests in the aims and cultures of the rest of the world. |
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11 Nov 04 - 02:11 PM (#1323515) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: McGrath of Harlow That yours Little Hawk? It sounds as if I'd read it, or something like it, before. Pretty true anyway. |
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11 Nov 04 - 03:07 PM (#1323603) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Little Hawk No, that was Sigurd. I would like to digress for a moment and generalize about penguins. They are kind of funny looking. They waddle. Their modest outward demeanour conceals an inner furnace of rampaging lust. They are definitely a great threat to society, and someone should do something about it. |
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11 Nov 04 - 03:45 PM (#1323675) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: Mr Red talking of stereotypes - some peole are amazed that Mr Red can demonstrate brain cells - but it comes with the territory - if I was going to complain about it I should dress in "ordinary". BUT When you turn up at a session with even a red bodhran the actuality of the drummer's skills exceeds the expectation - usually. |
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11 Nov 04 - 08:09 PM (#1324015) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: McGrath of Harlow Sigurd the Icelandic Dragon-Slayer? |
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11 Nov 04 - 10:51 PM (#1324159) Subject: RE: BS: Why are we generalising about Americans? From: GUEST,.gargoyle Throughout the western EU, this past summer, (from tabloids, to radio, to main-stream press) the common thread was an overwhelming "Kerry will Carry the States!"
Delightfully, amused to find an ignorant western EU eating hubris-crowbird-pie this fall.
Sincerely, |