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17 Nov 04 - 03:33 AM (#1329601) Subject: Yuletide carols From: ShadyLady Hello, I'm 9. does anybody know any Christmas carols that mention Yule or Yuletide? |
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17 Nov 04 - 03:45 AM (#1329614) Subject: RE: Yuletide carols From: GUEST,DMcF I got plenty of reference material via Google after typing in Yuletide and a second search of Christmas Carols Good hunting. Try a look at .... http://www.sanfords.net/Pagan_Humor_and_Thoughts/Pagan_Yule_songs.htm ....interesting! And from.... http://www.carols.org.uk/ .... straight away..... Deck the Halls : Lyrics Deck the halls with boughs of holly, Fa la la la la, la la la la. Tis the season to be jolly, Fa la la la la, la la la la. Don we now our gay apparel, Fa la la, la la la, la la la. Troll the ancient Yule tide carol, Fa la la la la, la la la la. etc etc All the best - Duncan |
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17 Nov 04 - 07:50 AM (#1329766) Subject: RE: Yuletide carols From: GUEST,greg stephens If you can sing those words to "Deck the Halls" without laughing you're a better man than I am. That sort of Victoriana hasn't lasted very well, IMVHO. |
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17 Nov 04 - 08:26 AM (#1329807) Subject: RE: Yuletide carols From: MBSLynne I'm inclined to agree...I hate it, but can you come up with any other Yule songs? |
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17 Nov 04 - 08:33 AM (#1329815) Subject: RE: Yuletide carols From: MMario actually - if you check the records - Don we now our gay apparel, Fa la la, la la la, la la la. Troll the ancient Yule tide carol, Fa la la la la, la la la la was substituted for older lyrics about 1911 or so...earlier the lines refferred to drinking and carousing. |
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17 Nov 04 - 09:23 AM (#1329874) Subject: RE: Yuletide carols From: JennyO Well, Shadylady, I have to thank you for sending me on this quest, because I have found (and bookmarked) a great website with many songs mentioning Yule or Yuletide - and most of the words are new to me, although the tunes are well known. They, and many others, can be found here Willow Firesong's Pagan Yule Carols If you click where it has the name of the tune in red, you can listen to them too. I've posted the words of some of them - I especially like the first one - and by the way, welcome to Mudcat! Jenny Here We Come A-Wassailing - Chorus by Hilda Marshall Tune: "Traditional Carol" Here we come a wassailing Among the leaves so green Here we come a-wandering So fair to be seen Chorus: Love and joy come to you Peace and hope and friendship too And we bless you and wish you a happy new year And we wish you a happy new year! Chorus We are not daily beggars who Beg from door to door But we are neighbors' children Whom you have seen before Chorus We have got a little purse Of stretching leather skin We want a little money To line it well within Chorus Call up the butler of this house Put on his golden ring Let him bring us a glass of beer And better we shall sing Chorus Bring us out a table and spread it with a cloth Bring us out a moldy cheese And some of your Yuletide loaf Chorus God bless the master of the house The mistress bless also And all the little children Around the table go Chorus Good master and good mistress While you sit by the fire Pray think of us poor children A-wand'ring in the mire Lady Moon Shine Softly Tune: "O Little Town of Bethlehem" Lady moon shines softly down To light the Earth below As we, her children, gather here Around the Yule fire's glow We wait for morning's dawning First light of holy birth Our Lady turns the wheel of life Her Son returns to Earth With joy we'll greet his dawning A new year has begun With increased light is bright new hope Reborn in Everyone. Yule Fires - John G. MacKinnon Tune: "Greensleeves" In ancient days the folk of old When chilled with fright by winter's cold Did kindle up a great Yule fire With leaping flames in its great pyre; So to entice the waning sun To rise again and wider run; It's fiery course across the sky, To warm them so they would not die. So we, whose minds now sense a chill Of anger in the evil will, The human conflict, hate, and strife, Which hold a menace over life; Would kindle up a flame of love That we within our hearts may move, In Yuletide joy, with love embrace And thus abide in peace and grace. O Yuletide Tree Tune: "O, Tannenbaum" O Yuletide Tree, O Yuletide Tree How lovely are thy branches O Yuletide Tree, O Yuletide Tree How lovely are thy branches Bring joyful tidings of great cheer O Yuletide Tree, O Yuletide Tree To us you are so lovely. O Yuletide Tree, O Yuletide Tree Evergreen and fragrant O Yuletide Tree, O Yuletide Tree Evergreen and fragrant We bring you in our home to be A sign of life's eternity O Yuletide Tree, O Yuletide Tree Forever green and lovely O Yuletide Tree, O Yuletide Tree Thank you for your blessings O Yuletide Tree, O Yuletide Tree Thank you for your blessings with golden stars and twinkling light You cheer us on this holy night O Yuletide Tree, O Yuletide Tree Thou art most fair and lovely Share the Light - Ellen Reed Tune: "The First Noel" On this Winter holiday, let us stop and recall That this season is holy to one and to all. Unto some a Son is born, unto us comes a Sun, And we know, if they don't that all paths are one. Chorus: Share the light, share the light! Share the light, share the Light! All paths are one on this holy night! Be it Chanukah or Yule, Christmas time or Solstice night, All celebrate the eternal light. Lighted tree or burning log, Or eight candle flames. All gods are one god, whatever their names. Chorus |
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17 Nov 04 - 09:52 AM (#1329908) Subject: RE: Yuletide carols From: GUEST,leeneia Here's a modern one: Chestnuts roasting by an open fire. Jack Frost nipping at your nose. Yuletide songs being sung by a choir, and folks dressed up like Eskimos... There's more to the song, but this should be enough to let you find it, if you are interested. |
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17 Nov 04 - 10:35 AM (#1329958) Subject: RE: Yuletide carols From: Alba Now ShadyLady here's a wee website that will challenge you...it's Yule in Iceland. It's a very nice site with a lot of stuff (for the want of a better explaination:>) Hope you like it: Yule in Iceland Yuletide Blessings Jude ps: maybe you could try singing some of the songs in Icelandic...lol....Skarpi, a Mudcatter comes from there and might be able to help! |
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17 Nov 04 - 12:19 PM (#1330056) Subject: RE: Yuletide carols From: Q (Frank Staplin) The original of Here we come a-wassailing of course, is the traditional 17th c. English Wassail carol, without the nouveau pagan slant. See: Hymns and Carols of Christmas: Wassail "Bring us out a mouldy cheese and some of your Christmas loaf" is one of the better lines. Reminds me of that superb dish, apple pie topped with a good, moldy Stilton. No Yule, but "chestnuts roasting by an open fire," I guess, is more to the modern taste. |
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17 Nov 04 - 01:22 PM (#1330134) Subject: RE: Yuletide carols From: nutty The words and music to the ancient carol "Welcome Yule" can be found here ........... Welcome Yule |
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17 Nov 04 - 01:27 PM (#1330139) Subject: RE: Yuletide carols From: nutty There is also a previous thread that may be of interest CLICK HERE |
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17 Nov 04 - 04:46 PM (#1330352) Subject: RE: Yuletide carols From: GUEST,greg stephens JennyO's post quotes some "Pagan Yule" carols, which are embarrassingly bad modern bowdlerised rewrites of traditional carols. There is quite a little industry of rewriting folksongs with the offensive bits removed(often references to drinking or Christmas, which tend to annoy certain people for various reasons). Fairly predictably, the results are not uniformly successful: the folk are rather good at writing folksongs, bowdlerisers aren't. |
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17 Nov 04 - 08:57 PM (#1330601) Subject: RE: Yuletide carols From: JennyO Well Greg, certainly some of these are not as well written as others, but I would not describe them all as "embarrassingly bad". I guess it's a matter of personal preference. Do you have a positive contribution to add? |
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17 Nov 04 - 09:32 PM (#1330628) Subject: RE: Yuletide carols From: Blackcatter I doubt Greg knows what "positive" means. Certainly, everyone can share their opinion, but it's pretty sad when blanket statements are pawned off as the truth. Slamming everyone who has rewritten a song is a pretty sad activity. There are many good rewritten songs out there. And frankly, many songs what were created from nothing suck pretty badly too. Even songs that we hold dear during the holiday season aren't exactly Shakespeare. I would post some of my Yuletide songs here, but I decdied not to post my own work at Mudcat a couple years ago because of louts who will critique something to death merely for their own amusement. |
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17 Nov 04 - 09:36 PM (#1330631) Subject: RE: Yuletide carols From: Malcolm Douglas Greg's was a positive contribution, I'd have thought. Those texts are indeed embarrassingly bad; no two ways about it. Sarah (ShadyLady) is quite young, after all, and we do need to be sure that we are telling her the truth in answer to her question. It would be quite wrong to try to palm off rubbish of that sort on her when she asked a serious question in good faith. |
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17 Nov 04 - 09:49 PM (#1330637) Subject: RE: Yuletide carols From: JennyO Malcolm, if I thought I was "palming off rubbish", I wouldn't have taken the time and effort to post. No wonder some people give up in disgust and leave! Fortunately I have a thick skin. I can only repeat to you what I said to Greg.........and I'm awaiting your contribution with bated breath. |
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17 Nov 04 - 10:42 PM (#1330675) Subject: RE: Yuletide carols From: Malcolm Douglas I don't doubt for a moment that you posted in good faith; uncritically, however. The road to hell, as you know, is paved with good intentions; and it is unwise to hold your breath while walking it. Beyond supporting Greg's well-made point (though of course unpopular; the truth is usually unpopular when it spoils cosy fantasy) I might add, for example, The Yule Days. It's a Scottish form of The Twelve Days of Christmas; a reciting-game rather than a song, but it does have the merit of being more than a century old and not re-invented last week. It's generally the case that "Yule" doesn't appear much in song between the middle ages and the 19th century, when it became fashionable again; it's a perfectly good Old English word (geol, and Old Norse jol) but not greatly used in popular culture until revived in Victorian times. I for one would like to apologise to Sarah for becoming involved in an unseemly quarrel in the middle of her thread. I'm afraid that we do get involved in arguments here, sometimes. It's one of those things that you don't grow out of when you get to be "grown-up", as it turns out. For what it's worth, it does at least prove that we care passionately about the subject! |
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17 Nov 04 - 11:13 PM (#1330710) Subject: RE: Yuletide carols From: Blackcatter Malcolm - just because you don't like them, doesn't mean they are a waste of time on this thread. What you and Greg have said is merely your opinion. For all you know, what Jenny has posted was exactly what Shadylady was looking for. That's the whole point of the Mudcat - putting a lot of stuff here - good, bad, indifferent, funny, insulting, etc. the quality doesn't really matter because people have different tastes. You may apologize to Shadylady for being in the middle of an arguement, but remember that Jenny didn't start the argument (yes, you didn't either). |
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17 Nov 04 - 11:15 PM (#1330714) Subject: RE: Yuletide carols From: Malcolm Douglas Come to think of it, I neglected to mention the thread Welcome Yule!. A 15th century song set to a 19th/20th century tune. Posted it myself as it happens, but that was 3 years ago. I'd forgotten all about it, but fortunately Q revived it earlier today. |
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18 Nov 04 - 02:47 AM (#1330818) Subject: RE: Yuletide carols From: MBSLynne Sarah will probably comment herself later, but at the moment she's getting ready for school. We like the site Jenny posted...Yule songs are very hard to come by, so anything is good.....how about some of you very clever musical people writing some for us? Sarah loved a couple of the ones on the site and is going to learn one to sing at our folk club. Thanks Jenny! The songs they teach children in school are often not particularly brilliant, but the kids like them, and Sarah is being exposed to as wide a variety of songs and music as we can manage. In that way, as she grows up, she will be able to form her own opinions and develop her own taste Love Lynne |
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18 Nov 04 - 03:38 AM (#1330849) Subject: RE: Yuletide carols From: GUEST,greg stephens I think I know about being positive. Mudcat is chock full of my wildly enthusiatic posts about all sorts of music. I spend my whole life being enthusiastic about music. But that does not mean I have to be enthusiastic about every lyric containing the word "yule", There is a fantastic body of seasonal music for the approaching time of year, some containing the word "Christmas", some the word "Yule", some neither. My opinion of the lyrics quoted by JennyO is that mostly them were bad rewrites of perfectly good songs. My opinion, of course(I presume we all write our own opinions here). Disagree, or agree, as you like. That's what discussion is about. But claiming I am not positive about things isn't discussion, it's just rubbish. As is plainly obvious, I LOVE music. |
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18 Nov 04 - 03:48 AM (#1330853) Subject: RE: Yuletide carols From: GUEST,greg stephens Just as a specific example: (original)Bring us out a mouldy cheese And some of your Christmas loaf" (new improved version) Bring us out a mouldy cheese And some of your Yuletide loaf" I am being asked to believe that this is an improvement. I disagree. And: O Yuletide tree O Yuletide tree To sus you are so lovely. I think that is unsingable doggerel. But I fully agree, one man's doggerel is another's poetry. I remeber well the editors of the Oxford Book of Carols(mainly Vaughan Williams) expressing the view that "Good King Wenceslas" was unsingable doggerel, and hoping it would soon drop out of sight. Well, their wishes weren't granted. Mabe people will be singing "Oh Yuletide tree to us you are so lovely" in their millions in a hundred years time. Who knows? |
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18 Nov 04 - 04:02 AM (#1330858) Subject: RE: Yuletide carols From: GUEST,greg stephens A third thought. I think the most positive thing any of us can do is to make sure children hear the best songs we know. Then they can choose what they. For me to do anything else would be very dishonest! I've recorded loads of Christmas songs. Naturally I chose the ones I thought were good. What do you expect me to do? |
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18 Nov 04 - 07:57 AM (#1330965) Subject: RE: Yuletide carols From: GUEST,Paul Burke To me, it doesn't matter much whether you call it Chrismas, Yuletide or even Winterval, as long as you recognise that it's no more a Christian festival than is Easter or All Souls/ All Saints. And that neo-Pagans really (despite much research) have much more than the vaguest idea of how what and even why the archaeoPagans celebrated these feasts. I started a sceptic carol once but ran out after the first verse: The rain fell from a sky of grey Above the cave where a baby lay. No choirs of angles sang his praise, No shepherds stood in rapt amaze. A fallen girl, her husband old, The inn was full, the night was cold, The dirty straw lay on the earth Where Mary gave her baby birth... |
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18 Nov 04 - 08:08 AM (#1330979) Subject: RE: Yuletide carols From: MBSLynne Hey Paul...I really like that.... |
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18 Nov 04 - 08:34 AM (#1330994) Subject: RE: Yuletide carols From: MBSLynne But Greg...you say the "The most positive thing that any of us can do is make sure our children hear the best songs we know..." Surely we have to make sure they just hear as wide a rage and variety as possible? What we think of as the 'best' songs, may not be what someone else thinks are best. If we only give tham our version of best aren't we imposing our tastes on them? Expose them to all and any music. They'll work out their own tastes in the end, and we'll probably be pleased at what good taste they develop! Love Lynne |
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18 Nov 04 - 08:54 PM (#1331726) Subject: RE: Yuletide carols From: JennyO Sarah, I'm really glad you liked the site and some of the songs. I'd be interested to hear from you about your favourites and which one you are thinking of performing. And thanks very much for your input, Lynne. I think you make a very valid point. Anyway, it seems to me that some of the well known "traditional" carols were not exactly works of art themselves, but people are used to them, and changing the words seems strange. Myself, I'd rather sing a carol about Yule, because it reflects my views. Certainly some well-written originals would be welcome, but they don't seem to be forthcoming here, and I'm not a songwriter myself. My SO is a songwriter however, so I might issue him a challenge to write one. Now, while certain people are busy having their opinions, I might go and see if I can find some more songs ;-) Jenny |
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18 Nov 04 - 09:58 PM (#1331786) Subject: RE: Yuletide carols From: Q (Frank Staplin) I t seems to be implied in one of the posts that these remade songs may be taught to children. I find that most unfortunate when perfectly good songs, correctly placed in history, are the ones being hashed up. |
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19 Nov 04 - 07:18 PM (#1332931) Subject: RE: Yuletide carols From: semi-submersible My mother learned new words to familiar carols when she worked on a Norwegian freighter as a young woman. Silent Night becomes Glade Jul (pronounced GLA-de yool) in Norwegian and Danish. The languages are so close that Mom (learning Norwegian fast, since there was only one English speaker on the ship) took weeks to discover that one of the crew was a Dane speaking Danish, not a Norwegian with a lingering head cold! Click the blue words to read the Norwegian lyrics beginning "Glade jul, hellige jul." (The o with a slash through it is pronounced a, and the a with a little o above it is pronounced o. So the city of Gåssø rhymes with Rosa and not with Brasso. I think the y's say ee like the j's. Given that, it's pretty phonetic, so you should be able to sing it without making Norwegian listeners laugh too hard.) The Danish version begins "Glade jul, dejlige jul." I loved to hear Mom sing it. It sounded beautiful. But one of her Norwegian friends said the English words were prettier. I guess a foreign language can make anything seem exotic. |
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20 Nov 04 - 07:48 AM (#1333431) Subject: RE: Yuletide carols From: MBSLynne Songs have always been 'hashed up' as you call it. There are numerous tunes which have a variety of different songs set to them and no end of lyrics with a number of different tunes. I hate to quote a cliche here, but it's all part of the 'folk process'. The songs may have a valid place in history and, I agree, should be taught to children on that basis, but if they are religious songs which don't reflect your own beliefs and religion, I see nothing wrong with them being 'adapted' as well. Jenny O is right, there don't seem to be many original, new pagan songs on offer, so as I'm not a song writer either, my kids and I will just have to use what is available. Love Lynne |
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20 Nov 04 - 02:34 PM (#1333796) Subject: RE: Yuletide carols From: GEST Allow me to introduce you to a small collection of Newfoundland Christmas Carols. :-) |
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22 Nov 04 - 02:58 AM (#1335005) Subject: RE: Yuletide carols From: greg stephens Norman Iles is a name that springs to mind in the field of pagan carols...does anyone know whetehr his stuff is available nowadays, published or recorded? |
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22 Nov 04 - 05:51 AM (#1335099) Subject: RE: Yuletide carols From: Malcolm Douglas I doubt if any are still in print, but second hand copies are usually available for small sums. I have a copy of The Restoration of Cock Robin; it's inventive and quite well written, but frankly ludicrous in its contentions. Norman had an extremely vivid imagination in common with his mentor Robert Graves, but lacked his scholarship. |
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22 Nov 04 - 10:43 AM (#1335268) Subject: RE: Yuletide carols From: JennyO Hi Sarah. My friend John wrote this song for you only a couple of hours ago. Because we are in Oz, and it is always hot at this time of year, with the threat of bushfires looming, the song is partly about the contrast between the Yule fire and our bushfires, and the difference in the way we celebrate at this time, and that in spite of the differences, the spirit is the same. I've sent you the words in a PM too. He hasn't had time to think of a tune yet, but we thought if we posted it on the thread, someone else might be able to come up with one. Any suggestions? Yule. John Warner.22 November 2004 Yule, Yule, merry old Yule, Drag in the log for the Lord of Misrule, When December is dark and cold winter is cruel, Here's good health by the fires of Yule. Here is no place for the Judgemental priest , We're here to enjoy what the good year's increased, To sing round the fire, to tell a good tale, To eat beef and puddin' and drink the brown ale. And here's old King Christmas and all of his men, To act out St George's bold legend again, So drink and be merry, let's all play the fool, The great log's ablaze, it's the season of Yule. The ranges are blue and the heat is intense, The road surface shimmers and the line of a fence, Beneath the verandah a table is laid, Where the neighbours are gathered, all grateful for shade. But no Yuletide log will be dragged in to blaze, For the brown smoke of bushfire is staining the haze, Yet the spirit of Christmas provides its own fuel, In the drink, food and singing of unchanging Yule. Yule, Yule Merry old Yule, Beer when it's cold and a dip in the pool, Snow or a bushfire are equally cruel, But your good health, old mate, for the season is Yule. Yule, Yule, merry old Yule, Drag in the log for the Lord of Misrule, When December is dark and cold winter is cruel, Here's good health by the fires of Yule. |
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22 Nov 04 - 05:58 PM (#1335789) Subject: RE: Yuletide carols From: GUEST,greg stephens Malcolm Douglas: "frankly ludicrous" is a fair description of Norman Iles' "carol restorations" as he called them. Norman was an old friend in Lancaster in the 60's, we sang together often. He was an absolute sweetuie, and his songs were dreadful. But, as has been pointed out several times, one man's "dreadful" is another man's "wonderful", and who knows a Norman Iles' yuletide carol may yet be a big hit for some latterday neo-pagan Cliff Richard. But I wouldnt's bet on it. |
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22 Nov 04 - 09:14 PM (#1335963) Subject: RE: Yuletide carols From: Peg I have to say, I thought those rewritten lyrics were pretty bad, too. I have seen similar efforts by other writers. I don't understand why the need to have the song be "paganized" is so intense that one would sacrifice fine old lyrics for sappy new ones. As both a pagan and singer I have been interested for many years in songs of the Yuletide that reflect the beauty of nature, and do not so much emphasize the Christ aspect. Here are but a few fine old songs that to me really capture a "pagan" spirit of the season: The Gloucestershire Wassail Oaken Logs The Boar's Head Carol The Wexford Carol (John Renbourn's version) Carol of the Bells The Fairest Maid The Holly and the Ivy Lullay My Liking Sheep 'Neath the Snow |
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22 Nov 04 - 10:24 PM (#1336019) Subject: RE: Yuletide carols From: UB Ed Good on you Peg! Ed |
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23 Nov 04 - 02:02 PM (#1336683) Subject: RE: Yuletide carols From: GUEST,Henryp Here's a contemporary Christmas song, The Meadowhall Carol written by Jim Boyes. You can find it on the CD Christmas Truce - Kerstbestand recorded by Coope Boyes and Simpson and their friends. It's a very moving rendition. And it was on a cold and angry winter's night A bitter hail did fall When all should be encased in homely candlelight Not in an ox's stall Nor crouching round a dying fire Deprived of hearth and home Nor trapped by circumstance or wire In a godforsaken zone There was no one but the ox and ass to hear the cry Or so the story goes 'Til angels brought the news to wandering shepherd folk Of a babe in swadding clothes No glad tidings or blessings rare For numbers yet unknown In shelter squat or tent they stare In a godforsaken zone And Wise Men came from far and distant foreign lands Brought gifts of joy and woe Bowed down their faces only for a little while Their homage for to show A gift, some joy but woe enough For those we then disown For one a loaf, for one a gun In a godforsaken zone Believers say it's faith and hope and charity That light the guiding star And gifts of gold bestowed upon the military That fan the flames of war Let swords be drawn, ploughshares forsworn And crops remain ungrown Let children starve and life be scorned In a godforsaken zone And so it's once again, my love, to tinsel town The mystic glitter calls The hoardings say that Jesus Christ is born today Is born in Meadowhall And far away where Santa's sleigh Can never never roam They die to fight another day In a godforsaken zone. |