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20 Nov 04 - 04:14 PM (#1333863) Subject: Lyr Add: CRUEL MOTHER (from Dave & Toni Arthur) From: Roberto The Cruel Mother as recorded by Dave & Toni Arthur, Hearken to the Witches Rune, 1970. Someone who kows the recording or can listen to it, please help correct this transcription. The main problems are in stanzas 11 and 14. Thanks. R There was a lady came from York All alone and a-lonely She fell in love with her father's clerk All down by the greenwood sidey She loved him well, she loved him long At last she proved with child by him She leaned her back against a thorn And there she had two pretty babes born She drew her scarf from off her head And bound those pretty babes hands and legs She laid those babes across her lap And swore they'd never suck milk nor pap She drew their little dresses apart And stabbed those pretty babes to their heart She wiped her knife all on the grass The more she wiped, the blood ran fast She washed her hands all in a spring Thinking to return a maid again As she came to her father's hall She saw two pretty babes playing at ball O babes, O babes, if you were mine I'd dress you up all in silk so fine They said – O mother, when we were yours You neither dressed us in silk nor coarse (???) O you took out your little penknife And parted us and our sweet life O babes, O babes, what can I do For the wicked crime I done to you? Spend seven years like an owl (???) in the wood And seven more like a wild (?????) in the sea For seven years you'll ring a bell The rest of time, you'll spend in hell |
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20 Nov 04 - 06:57 PM (#1334008) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dave & toni arthur's cruel mother From: Nerd Wouldn't Dave's Cruel Mother have been Toni's Cruel Mother-in-law? Sorry! |
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20 Nov 04 - 07:06 PM (#1334015) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dave & toni arthur's cruel mother From: Malcolm Douglas to the heart coarse I've done to you owl whale I have no idea where they got that one from. |
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21 Nov 04 - 03:49 AM (#1334251) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dave & toni arthur's cruel mother From: Roberto Thank you very much, Malcolm. There are no notes at all on the lp. |
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21 Nov 04 - 06:31 AM (#1334316) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dave & toni arthur's cruel mother From: GUEST,Hootenanny Dave Arthur is still performing in the UK. He may also still be editing the magazine for the EFDSS at Cecil Sharp House in London. You might try contacting them if you still require more info. |
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19 Mar 21 - 04:40 AM (#4098319) Subject: Chords required for the Cruel Mother From: GUEST can anyone help me please. i cannot find the Chords for The Cruel mother by Dave and Toni Arthur. |
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19 Mar 21 - 10:15 AM (#4098336) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cruel Mother (from Dave & Toni Arthur) From: Felipa Those verses about the details of the infanticide are about the goriest I've come across in the many versions of this song. The verse about breast milk is one I'm not familiar with (perhaps due to censorship somewhere along the line). |
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19 Mar 21 - 12:41 PM (#4098362) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cruel Mother (from Dave & Toni Arthur) From: GUEST,# https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ0LQWmbhKo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ0LQWmbhKo That's the song being sung by Dave and Toni Arthur. |
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19 Mar 21 - 12:57 PM (#4098365) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cruel Mother (from Dave & Toni Arthur) From: GUEST,# From Roberto's post: "They said – O mother, when we were yours You neither dressed us in silk nor coarse (???)" Coarse is correct. Other version say fine nor coarse, so I assume the line refers to the grade/quality of material with which to dress a child. "Spend seven years like an owl (???) in the wood And seven more like a wild (?????) in the sea" The question marks after owl should be removed. Owl is the word that was sung. I'm pretty sure the following line should read "And seven more like a whale in the sea". It's just his pronunciation of the word that throws folks off. ******************************************** |
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19 Mar 21 - 01:31 PM (#4098370) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cruel Mother (from Dave & Toni Arthur) From: Reinhard That's what Malcolm already corrected two postings after Roberto's ... |
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20 Mar 21 - 08:17 AM (#4098493) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cruel Mother (from Dave & Toni Arthur) From: GUEST,# Sorry. I posted without having seen Malcolm's. Have a nice day. |
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20 Mar 21 - 09:54 AM (#4098505) Subject: RE: LYRIC ADD (with thanks to Malcolm Douglas) From: GUEST,# Cruel Mother (from Dave & Toni Arthur) There was a lady came from York All alone and a-lonely She fell in love with her father's clerk All down by the greenwood sidey She loved him well, she loved him long At last she proved with child by him She leaned her back against a thorn And there she had two pretty babes born She drew her scarf from off her head And bound those pretty babes hands and legs She laid those babes across her lap And swore they'd never suck milk nor pap She drew their little dresses apart And stabbed those pretty babes to their heart She wiped her knife all on the grass The more she wiped, the blood ran fast She washed her hands all in a spring Thinking to return a maid again As she came to her father's hall She saw two pretty babes playing at ball O babes, O babes, if you were mine I'd dress you up all in silk so fine They said – O mother, when we were yours You neither dressed us in silk nor coarse O you took out your little penknife And parted us and our sweet life O babes, O babes, what can I do For the wicked crime I done to you? Spend seven years like an owl in the wood And seven more like a whale in the sea For seven years you'll ring a bell The rest of time, you'll spend in hell |
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20 Mar 21 - 10:36 AM (#4098513) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cruel Mother (from Dave & Toni Arthur) From: Greum If it's of any interest, notes in the Dave and Toni Arthur song book say: A song once banned on Irish radio for being too cruel. Cruel or not, it is a song widely sung by traditional singers, and Ken Stubbs in his book The Life of a Man says that claims have been put forward that the song pre-dates the Norman Conquest. |
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20 Mar 21 - 12:23 PM (#4098529) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cruel Mother (from Dave & Toni Arthur) From: leeneia Widely sung by traditional singers? I didn't encounter the song until I saw it in a library book, when I was age 55 or so. I don't believe I have ever heard it in a concert. This version, which uses five couplets instead of one to describe the killing, rather wallows in it, I think. As for the ballad predating the Norman Conquest, I doubt it. In earlier centuries (I can't say which ones, exactly) infanticide was legal as long as any part of the fetus' body (a foot, for example) was still inside the mother's body. |
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08 Sep 21 - 01:02 PM (#4119217) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cruel Mother (from Dave & Toni Arthur) From: Martin Graebe 'A song once banned on Irish radio for being too cruel' - has anyone seen any evidence for this? Martin |