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01 Apr 05 - 01:47 PM (#1449262) Subject: Origins of Other Nursery Rhymes From: DMcG Today the UK Guardian has repeated the Canard about Ring-a-O'Roses being about the black death, which has been thoroughly trashed in this thread. They also gave a few other 'histories' of Nursery Rhymes. Is there any more foundation in any of these? Jack and Jill - refers to King Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette. Mary Mary Quite Contrary - About Mary I, "Bloody Mary" Three Blind Mice - Also Bloody Mary, but this time noblemen convicted of plotting against her. Little Miss Muffet - "Patience Muffet, apparently, was a real girl. Her stepfather was an entomologist, who, during the late 16th century, wrote the first scientific catalogue of British insects." (See this site, which thinks not) |
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01 Apr 05 - 01:56 PM (#1449270) Subject: RE: Origins of Other Nursery Rhymes From: GUEST,MMario I have heard "Mary Mary" more likely to be Mary Stuart then Mary tudor. |
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01 Apr 05 - 02:47 PM (#1449325) Subject: RE: Origins of Other Nursery Rhymes From: Q (Frank Staplin) Jack and Gill went up the Hill To fetch a bottle of water; Jack fell down and broke his crown, And Gill came tumbling after First appearance in a toy book, c. 1783. Baring Gould suggested that the verse preserves the Scandinavian myth of Hjuki and Bill, who were caught up by Mani, the Moon, as they were taking water from the well Byrgyr, and they can be seen to this day in the Moon carrying the bucket on a pole between them. From Comparative Studies in Nursery Rhymes, by Linda Eckenstein, 1906. Most of these tales behind children's verses are speculation and fantasy, appended during Victorian times. The suggestion that Jack and Gill were Louis and Marie is more likely, but wouldn't children have played guillotine games rather than make up a simple little rhyme about the beheadings? Now my interpretation is that Jack and Gill found the hiding place of their old man's booze, got drunk and lost their equilibrium. |
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01 Apr 05 - 06:12 PM (#1449536) Subject: RE: Origins of Other Nursery Rhymes From: GUEST,Georgina Boyes I wouldn't get too concerned, this was The Guardian of 1st April. |
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02 Apr 05 - 01:27 AM (#1449784) Subject: RE: Origins of Other Nursery Rhymes From: DMcG You are right, Georgina, and I wondered whether it was an April 1st joke when I first read it, but I decided that the false Ring-a-Ring O'Roses - plague link was so well established that it would be far too subtle. In addition, this was linked to an article in which a television channel, Nick Jr, is asking people to write new rhymes, and the links to that site work. |
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24 Dec 05 - 08:53 PM (#1634877) Subject: RE: Origins of Other Nursery Rhymes From: Joe Offer Bruce Murdoch sent me a link to http://www.rhymes.org.uk/. Looks like an interesting resource, if not particularly authoritative. -Joe Offer- |
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24 Jul 15 - 06:36 PM (#3725912) Subject: RE: Origins of Other Nursery Rhymes From: GUEST,franc 91 I'm not absolutely sure that what is on that 'Rhymes.org.uk site is a 100% accurate. I suggest that you have a look at the books of those who have carried out research in this subject ie Peter and Iona Opie. Jeremy Barlow has also done some work in this field and some time ago he did a programme about it on Radio Four. Iona Opie also participated and of course they played some of songs performed by the Broadside Band from their CD Old English Nursery Rhymes. It's also worth pointing out that in the sleevenotes of that CD, quite often references of possible or not so possible origins of the rhymes are given. Sadly, they say that a lot of nonsense has been written over the centuries on this subject. Yes and of course Ring-a-ring Roses predates the Plague and is possibly German in origin. |