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10 Apr 05 - 07:28 AM (#1456928) Subject: Songs about Napoleon From: NormanD On the wonderful new CD by Barry Dransfield ("Unruly" - you really must buy a copy!) there's a song called "Grand Conversation" which, although it sounds very New Labour (ha ha), is a broadsheet ballad about Napoleon Bonaparte. The song is a narrative ballad, and not particularly anti-Bonaparte or even anti-French. So, could anyone give me their views on why there were so many pro-Bonaparte songs in Britain that appear to celebrate the life of this dictator? Was it because he posed a threat and an alternative to "our" own despotic monarchy and ruling class of the early-19th Century? Other ideas, and examples of other Bonaparte songs much appreciated. Regards Norman D. |
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10 Apr 05 - 07:48 AM (#1456937) Subject: RE: Songs about Napoleon From: The Borchester Echo Loads of stuff here. And this about Gordon Hall from whom Barry Dransfield got the song. Unruly isn't out till 16 May on the new Violin Workshop label. Tell your suppliers when placing your orders that it will be distributed by Proper. It is truly gorgeous. |
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10 Apr 05 - 09:27 AM (#1457038) Subject: RE: Songs about Napoleon From: OtherDave Capercaillie sings one in Gaelic -- "Bonaparte" -- lyrics on this page in Gaelic and English. O gu sunndach mi air m' astar, Falbh gu siubhlach le bheag airtneul, Do a chomhrag ri Bonaparte, 'S e bha bagairt air Righ Deors'. "I'm happy on my journey, Travelling swiftly without flagging, Heading off to do battle with Bonaparte, He it was who threatened King George." |
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10 Apr 05 - 09:59 AM (#1457059) Subject: RE: Songs about Napoleon From: Severn Drummer Boy of Waterloo Boneparte's Retreat Plains Of Waterloo Boney (Sea Shanty) Bonaparte Crossing The Rhine (fiddle tune) ...immediately come to mind. There's gotta be a site where you can pull up a netload of these things in one trawl. |
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10 Apr 05 - 10:17 AM (#1457074) Subject: RE: Songs about Napoleon From: Phil Cooper Bonnie Light Horseman, Bonnie Bunch of Roses are both songs with a Napoleon reference. I seem to think of those songs a lot more these days with Bush's current folly. A new Barry Dransfield album? Sign me up! |
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10 Apr 05 - 10:19 AM (#1457076) Subject: RE: Songs about Napoleon From: The Borchester Echo There's gotta be a site where you can pull up a netload of these things in one trawl ...which is why I linked to Vic Gammon's paper on Napoleon and Popular Balladry above. |
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10 Apr 05 - 10:28 AM (#1457083) Subject: RE: Songs about Napoleon From: NormanD Ta, richard, both links are really good and fill in a lot of the background to my query. There are surely more songs about Bonaparte than any of his English contemporaries. Who'd want to sing about Wellington or Castlereagh (though Shelley did a good demolition job on the latter). And the new Barry Dransfield album is as good as richard suggests |
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10 Apr 05 - 10:38 AM (#1457089) Subject: RE: Songs about Napoleon From: Uncle_DaveO Songs about Napoleon? "Giddyup, Napoleon, it looks like rain!! Dave Oesterreich |
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10 Apr 05 - 10:51 AM (#1457104) Subject: RE: Songs about Napoleon From: GUEST,Joe_F And if the horse counts, why not the pig? Friend of fatherless! Fountain of happiness! Lord of the swill-bucket! Oh, how my soul is on Fire when I gaze at thy Calm and commanding eye, Like the sun in the sky, Comrade Napoleon! -- George Orwell --- Joe Fineman joe_f@verizon.net ||: When tempted to make a generalization about Christians, try it out on Communists, and vice versa. :|| |
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10 Apr 05 - 10:52 AM (#1457105) Subject: RE: Songs about Napoleon From: GUEST,sarah Try Waterson Carthy's 'Fishes and Fine Yellow Sand' album, Tim Van Eyken sings a song called 'Napoleons Death'. Sleeve notes tell you quite a bit about it as well. Sarah |
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10 Apr 05 - 11:09 AM (#1457116) Subject: RE: Songs about Napoleon From: HuwG Slightly more modern, "Done with Bonaparte", by Mark Knopfler. |
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10 Apr 05 - 11:11 AM (#1457118) Subject: RE: Songs about Napoleon From: belfast There is a double CD by Frank Harte on Hummingbird records. I hesitate to use the word 'definitive' but if I did I would use it here. |
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10 Apr 05 - 12:19 PM (#1457167) Subject: RE: Songs about Napoleon From: Uncle_DaveO Good ole fiddle tunes: Napoleon Crossing the Rhine and Buonaparte's Retreat Dave Oesterreich |
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10 Apr 05 - 12:34 PM (#1457185) Subject: RE: Songs about Napoleon From: GUEST,celtaddict at work I have read that there were more songs written about Napoleon Bonaparte than about any other person in history or legend except Jesus Christ. |
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10 Apr 05 - 01:01 PM (#1457207) Subject: RE: Songs about Napoleon From: wildlone Thanks for the link richard, Napoleon was a man who frightened the whole of Europe and ended up in control of most of it. As a re-enactor with the 41st foot we had no dealings with the French tyrant. We were keeping the dastardly johnathons out of Canada. BTW some of the rebelious colonists that I have talked to in the UK like to think that the war of 1812 was won by America. I like to point out, Buckingham palace was never burned Canada is not a state of the US. 41st Foot web page dave [waiting with fixed bayonet for the attack]***BG*** |
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10 Apr 05 - 01:33 PM (#1457241) Subject: RE: Songs about Napoleon From: The Walrus "Boney Was a Warrior" The 'popularity' of the Napoleon theme for songs seem to me, to be based partly on disaffection with the changing society (this was the era of the Industrial Revolution and Ludditism in Britain), Irish disaffection, and post war low level 'passive rebellion' in the era of 'Peterloo' from the dis-enfranchised. Wildlone, "...Buckingham palace was never burned..." But York (Toronto) was - hence the burning of Washington. More importantly, The US invaded Canada ...and were repulsed. The conditions of the peace treaty were Status ante bellum - or no change from the situation before the war. The American claim sems to be based on the fact that the Royal Navy never pressed American seamen into service again, but that was probably due to the fact that, by the time the American ar was over, the (more important) European war was also over and there was no need for additional sailors. Walrus |
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10 Apr 05 - 01:39 PM (#1457250) Subject: RE: Songs about Napoleon From: Nigel Parsons Good timing for this thread, I've just rec'd the latest newsletter from Newport (South Wales) Folk Club. They're having a 'Theme Night' 16th June 2005 and the theme? . . . Drinking & The Napoleonic War Nigel |
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10 Apr 05 - 01:44 PM (#1457255) Subject: RE: Songs about Napoleon From: SINSULL 1812 Overture? |
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10 Apr 05 - 02:17 PM (#1457278) Subject: RE: Songs about Napoleon From: michaelr Slight thread creep: Has anyone seen the film "The Emperor's New Clothes" with Ian Holm as Napoleon? The premise is that Bonaparte was replaced with a double who then sneaks back to France to reclaim his throne -- but no one in France wants him back. It's a pretty funny film. Cheers, Michael |
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10 Apr 05 - 03:00 PM (#1457323) Subject: RE: Songs about Napoleon From: HuwG Napoleon's retreat from Wigan by Mike Harding. |
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10 Apr 05 - 03:09 PM (#1457334) Subject: RE: Songs about Napoleon From: GUEST,Spence William Blake's Songs of Innocence and Experience includes 'Tyger Tyger' (in the 'Experience' section), which has been reckoned a commentary on the French Revolution. Blake used to wear a red cap to show sympathy for the revolutionary cause, until 'The Terror' started, and he became aware just what a ghastly, bloodthirsty business it was. One can see how the French republic and Boney would have become romantic rallying points for the Brit commoners, stuck under the yoke of an idle, corrupt, self-interested monarchy, and whose struggles towards self-emancipation eg the Tolpuddle Martyrs had been dealt with cruelly. The fact that Napoleon himself was a tyrant and warmonger would have been conveniently overlooked, just as the modern British left have lionised Castro and Trotsky while refusing to 'fess up to their police state methods. So, plus ca change, plus la meme chose. Except they arguably got better songs out of it in the old days. |
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10 Apr 05 - 03:36 PM (#1457360) Subject: RE: Songs about Napoleon From: OtherDave Napoleanic contribution sung by Mary Black: Isle of St. Helena No more in St.-Cloud will he appear in great splendor Nor step forth from the crowd like the great Alexander He may look to the east while he thinks on Lucana With his heart full of woe on the Isle of St. Helena... |
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10 Apr 05 - 04:18 PM (#1457402) Subject: RE: Songs about Napoleon From: GUEST,Allen Actualy most Britons weren't pro-Napoleon. He was popularly thought of as the little Corsican ogre. |
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10 Apr 05 - 05:27 PM (#1457455) Subject: RE: Songs about Napoleon From: Santa I think that most of the pro-Napoleon songs are from Irish sources rather than British. I don't offhand recall any English ones, downtrodden masses or not. Aggro was directed against our own tyrants..."we have bigger Boney's of our own" springs to mind. Unfortunately the title of this song doesn't - one of the Strawhead pieces (Perhaps from The Old Lamb and Flag? I think I can hear Pat Ryan's voice....). "Little Bantam Emperor" is rather more of the English attitude. On a similar line, why did Santiana (Santa Anna) of Alamo fame become such a popular star of sea shanties? Were the Americans that unpopular then? |
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10 Apr 05 - 05:32 PM (#1457460) Subject: RE: Songs about Napoleon From: Bearheart I have the Frank Harte CD and it is excellent. There are some very good liner notes on the history of Europe at the time, including a section on Napoleon and the Irish-- who were struggling to free themselves from British rule, and had the example of America' war for independence in front of them. Many of the pro-Napoleon ballads are of Irish origin for this reason. Whatever you think of all of this political stuff, some of the best ballads in the English language are in this catagory, and not a few of them are on this cd. (Many of them I'd catagorize as anti-war ballads...) And if you like simple, unadorned (but not unornamented!)traditional Irish singing, this is some of the finest. Much of it is unaccompanied; where it is accompanied, Donal Lunny never takes center stage but always gives the singer the preference. It took me a long time to track the cd down but it was well worth it. Bekki |
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10 Apr 05 - 05:44 PM (#1457467) Subject: RE: Songs about Napoleon From: GUEST The songs in the Harte CD are wonderful, but they don't hold up his arguments that well. |
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10 Apr 05 - 06:11 PM (#1457494) Subject: RE: Songs about Napoleon From: Snuffy Santa "we have bigger tyrants and Boney's of our own" is from The Handloom Weavers Lament which I (and probably you) learned from the Deep Lancashire LP 35-odd years ago You tyrants of England, Your race may soon be run You may be brought unto account For what you've sorely done |
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10 Apr 05 - 06:21 PM (#1457501) Subject: RE: Songs about Napoleon From: GUEST,cromdubh Sean Garvey does a great version of the Bonnie Bunch of Roses on his recent album of the same name I think. |
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10 Apr 05 - 06:48 PM (#1457536) Subject: RE: Songs about Napoleon From: Santa Thanks, Snuffy, Tyrants it is. However, I wasn't in Lancashire 35 years ago. I certainly have heard it by Strawhead but it could well have been the Taverners before them. |
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10 Apr 05 - 07:26 PM (#1457575) Subject: RE: Songs about Napoleon From: GUEST,Dale Warlike Lads Of Russia Around here you might hear "Bonaparte Crossing The Ozarks" every now and then. I'm not too sure how factual that might be. |
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10 Apr 05 - 07:57 PM (#1457587) Subject: RE: Songs about Napoleon From: The Walrus I suspect that some of the English pro-Boney songs might post date the War, when there was still unrest but no French threat. More a sort of 'we need a Napoleon of our own' theme. By the bye, "...and whose struggles towards self-emancipation eg the Tolpuddle Martyrs had been dealt with cruelly..." Wasn't Tolpuddle post 1815? W |
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10 Apr 05 - 08:30 PM (#1457611) Subject: RE: Songs about Napoleon From: Susanne (skw) Louis Killen sings 'A Grand Conversation on Napoleon' on his CD 'The Rose In June' (2001). According to the liner notes, he first learnt it from Harry Boardman. |
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10 Apr 05 - 10:53 PM (#1457681) Subject: RE: Songs about Napoleon From: Desert Dancer About the Frank Harte album historical notes, reviewer Geoff Wallis at the Musical Traditions site had this to say: They are inaccurate, tendentious, chronologically confused and confusing, poorly edited, repetitive and littered with typographical errors. So, a word of caution. Fine songs and singing though. :-) ~ Becky in Tucson |
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10 Apr 05 - 10:56 PM (#1457685) Subject: RE: Songs about Napoleon From: Desert Dancer Sorry, that link gets you to the last part of that review. Here it is from the top. ~ B in T |
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11 Apr 05 - 03:03 AM (#1457766) Subject: RE: Songs about Napoleon From: Malcolm Douglas It used to be "received wisdom" that songs that dealt more-or-less sympathetically with Napoleon must somehow be Irish, but this is to ignore political developments in Britain at that time. Certainly some are Irish at least in part (The Bonny Bunch of Roses was set specifically to an Irish tune) but others don't appear to be, and were if anything more popular in England and Scotland. There is more work to be done on the whole subject, and the identity of George Brown (credited on some broadsides as writer of various songs, including The Bonny Bunch of Roses) is one question that I'd like to see answered. We won't be getting much reliable information from Frank Harte, though, it seems. |
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11 Apr 05 - 06:48 AM (#1457839) Subject: RE: Songs about Napoleon From: GUEST,Songsmith You must remember that Frank Harte didn't set out to release a cd to educate folk about Napoleon he wanted to share his collection of Napoleonic Ballads, and didn't he do it well! I collect Napoleonic ballads in written and recorded form and as yet on cd I have not come across anything to match 'My name is Napoleon Bonaparte' by Frank Harte. One more that springs to mind: Fallen Boney There are so many that it is difficult to pick which I prefer but if pushed 'The Bonny Light Horseman' cheers Songsmith |
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11 Apr 05 - 07:41 AM (#1457860) Subject: RE: Songs about Napoleon From: Emma B The Isle of St Helena is possibly my favourite but has anyone mentioned the shanty "Boney"? Boney was a warrior, Way-aye-yah A war-ri-or, A ter-ri-or John-ny Fran-swor Stan Hugill in "Shanties from the Seven Seas" comments on the arguments why British sailors sang about a famous enemy but concluded it was probably simply for the pleasure of using "furrin" words and phrases |
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11 Apr 05 - 10:18 AM (#1457976) Subject: RE: Songs about Napoleon From: GUEST,Joe_F Napoleon, like Stalin, inherited a revolution with liberal & internationalist pretensions, and turned it into an instrument of imperial foreign policy. He had the use of fellow travelers in foreign countries, who took a lesser or greater while to catch on to his betrayal. --- Joe Fineman joe_f@verizon.net ||: Deficient contact with reality is called mania. Excessive contact with reality is called depression. :|| |
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11 Apr 05 - 04:41 PM (#1458295) Subject: RE: Songs about Napoleon From: Big Al Whittle The late Tony Capstick could sing The Bonny Bunch of Roses really beutifully. |
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11 Apr 05 - 04:43 PM (#1458298) Subject: RE: Songs about Napoleon From: Phil Cooper There's an American Old Time tune called Bonaparte Crossing the Rockies that the Volo Bogtrotters recorded a few years back. Not historically accurate, but a great tune. |
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11 Apr 05 - 04:55 PM (#1458311) Subject: RE: Songs about Napoleon From: Tradsinger Drink old England Dry has England worrying about Boney taxing English beer. There's a song called "Pompalarie Jig" about Napoleon. I learnt it from Ray Driscoll. Anyone out there come across it? Gwilym |
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12 Apr 05 - 10:44 AM (#1459055) Subject: RE: Songs about Napoleon From: Kevin Sheils Certainly some are Irish at least in part (The Bonny Bunch of Roses was set specifically to an Irish tune) but others don't appear to be, and were if anything more popular in England and Scotland. One other song which clearly has developed from an Irish tune is Sam Larner of Norfolk's "Napoleons Dream" which, to my ear is certainly musically related to The Minstrel Boy. Strangely I don't think it appears on The Frank Harte CD, possibly because it may only have been found in England, Irish tune notwithstanding. |
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12 Apr 05 - 11:21 AM (#1459078) Subject: RE: Songs about Napoleon From: katlaughing I've always loved this poem, but never heard it set to music. It certainly expresses some of the pro-Napoleon British sentiments, though: Napoleon and the British Sailor. Also, there's a thread somewhere here about the above mentioned tune, Napoleon Crossing the Rockies. kat |
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26 Feb 22 - 05:28 PM (#4137889) Subject: ADD Version: Napoleon's Dream From: Joe Offer NAPOLEON'S DREAM One night sad and languid I went to my bed And I scarcely reclined on my pillow When a vision surprising came into my head I thought I was crossing the billow, I thought as my vessel sped over the deep, I beheld that rude rock that grows so craggy and steep Where the willow, the willow is now seen to weep Or the grave of the once famed Napoleon. I thought as my vessel sped near to the land I beheld clad in green his bold figure With the trumpet of fame he had clasped in his hand, On his brow there shone valor and vigor. He said noble stranger you have ventured to me From the land of your fathers who boast they are free If so then a tale I will tell unto thee 'Tis concerning the once famed Napoleon You remember the time so immortal he cried When I crossed o'er the Alps famed in story, When the legions of France whose sons were my pride I marched them to honor and glory On the fields of Marengo I tyranny hurled Where the banners of France first to me were unfurled As a symbol of liberty all over the world And a symbol of fame cried Napoleon. Like a hero I've born both the heat and the cold I've marched to the trumpet and symbol But by the dark deeds of treachery I now have been sold Though monarchs before me have trembled You princes and rulers who my station demean Like scorpions you spit forth all your venom and spleen But Liberty all over the world shall be seen. As I woke from my dream cried Napoleon. From Holdstock & MacLeod's Deepwater Songs recording https://dickholdstock.files.wordpress.com/2021/09/deepwatersongslyrics.pdf We have a version in the Digital Tradition called "the Dream of Napoleon" https://mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=6186 |
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27 Feb 22 - 10:38 AM (#4137967) Subject: RE: Songs about Napoleon From: gillymor The Green Linnet ,sung by Dick Gaughan. Lyrics to the aforementioned Done with Bonaparte- DONE WITH BONAPARTE (Lyrics Mark Knopfler; air trad. ) We've paid in hell since Moscow burned As Cossacks tear us piece by piece Our dead are strewn a hundred leagues Though death would be a sweet release And our Grande Armee is dressed in rags A frozen, starving beggar band Like rats we steal each other's scraps And fall to fighting hand to hand cho:: Save my soul from evil, Lord And heal this soldier's heart I'll trust in thee to keep me, Lord I'm done with Bonaparte What dreams he made for us to dream The Spanish skies, Egyptian sands The world was ours, we marched upon Our little corporal's command And I lost an eye at Austerlitz The sabre slash yet gives me pain My one true love awaits me still The flower of the Aquitaine (CH) I pray for her who prays for me A safe return to ma belle France We prayed this war would end all wars In war we know there's no romance And I pray our child will never see A little corporal again Point towards a foreign shore And captivate the hearts of men (CH) |