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11 Apr 05 - 12:33 PM (#1458078) Subject: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Lowden Jameswright The heartbeat of the finest folk festival in England has finally given out, with no prospect of resuscitation. The Plough has always been the focal point of the Whitby Folk Festival, and news that Sam Smiths' Managing Director was banning all forms of music led some believers to pray for deliverance, and hope somehow the Plough would be spared it's life , at least for the annual folk week. No such luck - Gil (the Landlord) has been forced to sign documents stating that he will not allow any forms of music/singing, impromptu or otherwise, on pain of death or redundancy. We have a 4-piece band to thank for this dreadful edict. They played a Sam Smiths Pub in York and cranked up the 1000 Watt stacks to such an extent that the pub's revered owner nearly suffered perforated ear drums. "No more of this shit in my pubs" he whispered, and set off on his crusade. Whistful memories and eulogies may be posted here......... |
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11 Apr 05 - 01:12 PM (#1458113) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Les in Chorlton Do Sam Smiths have a website that could be challenged? |
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11 Apr 05 - 02:14 PM (#1458157) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Raggytash No Les, they do not even have email |
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11 Apr 05 - 06:42 PM (#1458434) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull bastards! |
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11 Apr 05 - 07:22 PM (#1458474) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: The Fooles Troupe He won't live forever But Folk Music will! |
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12 Apr 05 - 04:10 AM (#1458751) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Dave Hanson Looks like the Plough will have a quiet week in August, shame. eric |
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12 Apr 05 - 04:21 AM (#1458755) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: GUEST,Raggytash Don't know where you get your information from Lowden, but three years ago Humphrey Smith (Chairman of the Company) first muted that he wanted to get all live entertainment out of his pubs and return them to the atmosphere of old, he neglected to take into account that pubs of old frequently had a piano in one room were people gathered to sing. I doubt very much that the actions of one band in one pub oon one night created this situation, but I am open to correction if you would care to elucidate |
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12 Apr 05 - 04:29 AM (#1458762) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: GUEST This ban was already in place, it has nothing to do with a 4 piece band in York, its to do with the guy who owns the pubs Humphrey Smith. He made the desisions to ban everything. |
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12 Apr 05 - 05:06 AM (#1458784) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: GUEST Humphrey Smith is quite, quite mad. Just ask anyone who lives in the rotten borough of Tadcaster |
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12 Apr 05 - 05:08 AM (#1458785) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Linda Kelly Much as we don't want individual landlords to suffer, lets hope that al folkies take away their trade from these pubs especially during Folk Week in Whitby and Beverley folk Festival (Nellies)-support is a two way thng after all. |
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12 Apr 05 - 05:15 AM (#1458786) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: GUEST Totally agree with that Linda, there have been rumours that they will RELAX the rule for both these festivals. Support does indeed work both ways I will, very regretably, be staying away from both pubs. |
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12 Apr 05 - 05:54 AM (#1458819) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: GUEST,Raggytash Sorry Linda and Guest but I think you have it wrong on this occasion. Should this ban be relaxed (which from the first thread it would appear is out of the question) I would be more than happy to go to the Plough. Gil,Denise and their staff and regular customers have been fantastic over the years I do not see why they should suffer because of the actions of a third party I.E. Humphrey Smith. Not only that the Plough IS Whitby Folk week to many people including myself, for the past 16 years I have spent many, many happy hours in there and would be delighted to do so again, I will not cut off my nose to spite my face in this instance. The support has always BEEN a two way thing between licencees and folkies in these establishments and had it been up to the licencees that would not have changed |
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12 Apr 05 - 06:49 AM (#1458851) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: GUEST Sorry Raggytash I sympathise with your sentiments and would not wish any harm on the Plough staff in the form buiness as individuals. But Humphrey Smith is not a third party he is the first in this case and very unfortunately what he says goes. I would rather give my money to someone who cares. He cant have it both ways, no one minute, and yes during folk festivals so he can make more money. |
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12 Apr 05 - 07:38 AM (#1458885) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: GUEST,steve I will certainly miss them but I am not prepared to give him my custom anymore, the man is in the dark ages. |
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12 Apr 05 - 07:41 AM (#1458889) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: GUEST,Raggytash Humphrey is a third party in relation to us and Gil & Denise, he is not "doing us a favour" he really doesn't seem to care about the loss of trade and apparently he can well afford to. However by boycotting the Plough it is only Gil & Denise and ourselves who will suffer, that doesn't make sense to me. I will argue the case for the continued use of the Plough should that be possible although reiterating the opening thread it would seem that Gil has had to make a committment to ensure that music does not take place. If that is so I will reluctantly go elsewhere as I have no wish to jeopardise Gil's position as licensee. I was actually in the Plough on Sunday but Gil and Denise were not working that shift, however I should be up there again on the 22nd and will confirm or refute what Lowden says after talking to Gil A sad day indeed if he is correct |
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12 Apr 05 - 08:29 AM (#1458941) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: GUEST,Malc Gil & Denise will not suffer from your refusal to drink in their establishment as landlords of Smith they will still receive their weekly pittance, Humphrey however will see his profits fall. It might also be worth finding out whether Smiths pubs have a music / live acts / performing rights / etc licence. in the first place, and if so why? |
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12 Apr 05 - 08:40 AM (#1458947) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: The Beast of Farlington We had a thread earlier this year where all the background, facts and speculation on the Sam Smith's music ban was covered in great detail so it would be worth having a look at it if you missed it. It's quite entertaining in its own right. I think it extremely unlikely that Humphrey will relax the ban for the festival. He is hardly a thrid party in this. He owns the brewery, he owns the pub, he decides company policy. If anything,the landlord is the third party! What is interesting is that his pub managers are resigning in droves because they are fed up with his draconian management style which leaves them no discretion in trying to make money. Not drinking in the Plough WILL affect the landlord and landlady because they are less likely to meet their sales targets and therefore have less chance of receiving a bonus. Unfortunately the only way to show our disapproval is to vote with our feet. Which is what is happening at many Sam Smith's pubs. |
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12 Apr 05 - 09:47 AM (#1459002) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Lowden Jameswright We visited the Plough last Tuesday, and the sad tale was related to us by Gil - he was obviously quite depressed by the situation. A member of the Brewery management team was just on her way out of the Plough, and we asked if there was any point making some protest then and there. Gil asked us not to make waves; he's obviously concerned he could be put in a tricky situation. I don't envy him - can you imagine the flack he might receive when he tests his powers of diplomacy during the folk week!? As soon as anyone pipes up to strum a chord or sing a note he's got to ask them to shut up or leave. I will continue to support Gil and the Plough, but during folk week I'm afraid it will just be somewhere to meet everyone else (as ever) but then to move on elsewhere after the 1st drink. I doubt that any representations to "Got the Humph" Smith will meet with anything other than disdain, but to stand any chance at all any letters would need to be very polite and extremely diplomatic. Anyone coming on strong to this guy will get instant brush-off. |
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12 Apr 05 - 09:48 AM (#1459004) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: GUEST,Sad Muso Sadly, I feel the profits will still roll in via the Plough tills whether the folkies are there or not during folk week. Folkies are not the only ones on holiday in Whitby that week - there are tourists in abundance. Many of them wish to sit and drink in a pub without the cramped space and noise of a session or singaround (I must point out that I'm NOT one of those that wishes this) There have always been pubs in Whitby that actively discourage any folkie invasion - the Granby for example. Such places are havens for those wanting to avoid the 'racket' (as they see it). The Plough will no doubt fill up with day trippers and those holidaying that week that are NOT there for the folk. I've heard some bar staff/landlords (both in Whitby and in other places) say that because folkies sit and play or sing, fewer pints may possibly be consumed per hour. I believe they take more money over the bar in Regatta week, for example, where those there just get on drinking and there's no music to slow things down. I'm actually afraid that their takings may NOT suffer. I'm not very good at expressing myself clearly, I do hope you understand where I'm coming from. I've sung in the Plough many a time - and will miss it. I'll not be buying any Sam Smiths ale anywhere from now on. It's all I can do. |
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12 Apr 05 - 10:00 AM (#1459010) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Lowden Jameswright Interesting point of view SM - maybe you're right, but Gil says he'll lose a lot of money and the brewery also. Only time will tell, and I will watch with interest during folk week, but £36000 for the week is one hell of a sales target to beat! |
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12 Apr 05 - 10:00 AM (#1459011) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: The Beast of Farlington Lowden I've refreshed the 'Obit: Sam Smith's and live music' thread so you can see the history. In a nutshell, you are right that aggressive letters will not change Humphrey Smith's mind. But, unfortunately, neither will polite ones as we have already sent them. Nick, another mudcatter, even had a call at home (after his second letter) from Humphrey Smith which politely told him that he would not discuss the matter anymore. We're not dealing with a reasonable man here! |
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12 Apr 05 - 10:05 AM (#1459013) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Lowden Jameswright PS "I'm not very good at expressing myself clearly, I do hope you understand where I'm coming from." You expressed yourself very well!! |
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12 Apr 05 - 11:16 AM (#1459073) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: The DeanMeister Nick, I don't agree with you on this one. If profits are not so good that week, Gil won't suffer. But old Humph might realise he's wrong. The same applies to Nellies. I won't be attending either on principle. And that alone will affect his profit and loss, as well you know!!!! |
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12 Apr 05 - 12:01 PM (#1459120) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Flash Company Regrettably I fear that Chairman Smith's response to a loss of profits would be to sack the landlord for not trying, you cannot expect anything will get through solid bone! He'll never accept that it might be his fault. FC |
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12 Apr 05 - 12:08 PM (#1459127) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Sir Roger de Beverley Anyone who was in the Sun Inn, Beverley on Sunday last will realise what Nellies has lost - it was heaving. Also, between cursing at having to work so hard, the landlord was smiling. R |
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12 Apr 05 - 12:36 PM (#1459155) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Raggytash If trade in the Plough is down Gil will suffer financially as he does get a bonus of some kind for achieving certain sales targets |
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12 Apr 05 - 01:33 PM (#1459216) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Banjo-Flower So where in Whitby is there a venue that can come anywhere equalling the Plough's yard on a hot sunny day in folk week ? Gerry (who's spent many a happy hour there) |
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12 Apr 05 - 01:54 PM (#1459237) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: nutty Will the ban affect activities in the yard??????? |
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12 Apr 05 - 01:56 PM (#1459240) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: The Shambles It is a bad situation but perhaps from it - a more positive future may result. The thing is to try and ensure that maximum (and accurate) publicity is given prior - during and after the festival. |
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12 Apr 05 - 02:49 PM (#1459286) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Don(Wyziwyg)T I see no conflict here, in the (very unlikely) event of a "relaxation". Surely attending sessions, if this were to happen, would give a clear indication to Humphrey of the profit disparity of the music/no music scenarios. Perhaps greed might be a stronger incentive than reason? And that way the landlord would not lose out. Don T. |
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12 Apr 05 - 03:29 PM (#1459314) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: oombanjo Hi Yu'all I havnt browsed every link on the thread, and I like most wish Humpty a short life. However I was in Nellies last week and heard that Anna had had to sign a new contract, this had the same inclusions that were stated earlier in the thread, I asked the question "is it true" and found it was, and under NO circumstance is there to be any music inside or out. I was asked to pass the message on to all who have enjoyed Sams hospitality in the past. No music please. this needs to be past on to all who may think that they are helping. |
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12 Apr 05 - 05:53 PM (#1459436) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: GUEST,Lancashire Lad This Humphrey bloke is clearly a plonker, a prat of the highest degree. I think he should employ someone with an MBA or at least someone with marketing / PR skills. Without commercial management expertise (which he clearly lacks) his business WILL fold. |
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12 Apr 05 - 06:09 PM (#1459451) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: TheBigPinkLad and under NO circumstance is there to be any music inside or out. surely he can't own the sidewalk? |
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12 Apr 05 - 06:14 PM (#1459458) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Tyke No music in the Plough! Then why not takes your/our custom to the Shambles, in Folk Week it's one of the venues that the Moor and Coast Festival will be using. Nice Views of the Harbour and a warm welcome I'm sure will be given. Why not support the Friendship Rowing Club Nice Views of the Harbour and it's own Beer Garden. The Friendship also the home of the Whitby Folk Club a warm welcome has been given since Mick and Angi Haywood were forced to move from the Plough. We could always have a whip round for Gil and Denise at the Plough in thanks for their past hospitality and support. |
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12 Apr 05 - 07:18 PM (#1459503) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Banjo-Flower so where's the Shambles it's not a venue I know but I do know I shall miss the 1st Saturday of Folk week in the Plough where you you got everything from rockabilly/rock'n'roll to Fields of Athenry /Sloop J B to Jigs/Reels n polkas seamlessly. Absolutely brilliant without an ounce of discord (you were left wondering who was going to start what next) and it all made an absolutely fantastic night Gerry |
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13 Apr 05 - 04:26 AM (#1459721) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: padgett Is n't the Shambles what was Burberries Sewing factory in the cobbled Market area some rooms were used for workshops last year A very nice pub anbd food area in normal time Excellent venue if I am right Pity the Plough will not be lilkey to pay its way next year as the revenue fromn the festival must have helped it cash flow Can my fund managers please note that i do not wish to continue my shareholding in Sam Smith !! |
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13 Apr 05 - 04:29 AM (#1459725) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: GUEST,Raggytash the Shambles is also a night club (ish) sort of venue, might there be a conflict of interests |
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13 Apr 05 - 05:23 AM (#1459773) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: GUEST I don't think Humphrey Smith is motivated by greed, he just has a very strange way of conducting business. They don't advertise anywhere, even the pubs themselves have new signs which don't mention the brewer. He owns vast swathes of Yorkshire, he's in no danger of going bust. Logic does not apply to this man! Last year was my first Whitby, and I'm glad I dropped in at The Plough. Seems I got a glimpse of the end of an era |
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13 Apr 05 - 06:13 AM (#1459808) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: GUEST,Raggytash End of an era perhaps, but these things have a happy knack of going in circles |
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13 Apr 05 - 07:58 AM (#1459853) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Tyke True Raggytash the only trouble is that this being the 40th Folk Week and The Plough and Sam Smiths gave major suport to the First Folk Week. So thinking of it as a circle is ok! But it's a flipping big circle that only a few will see the turning of. |
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13 Apr 05 - 08:10 AM (#1459856) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: GUEST,Raggytash OK ......... then lets look at this as an opportunity to find new venues, spread the music and song to new people, drink something drinkable (which with all due respect to Gil to beer after Sunday in the Plough wasn't)and continue to have good time in the fair seaport of Whitby, The King is dead, long live the King. Yes, I'll be very sad not to visit the Plough and see old friends (often singing the same songs as last years, but what the hell)listen to old favourites, the assembled company taking the roof off to "Hand me down my walking cane" (a particular special for me)but things more on, nothing stays the same ....... nor should we want it to, if something stays the same it will eventually die. I for one will still nip in the Plough, if only to sneak into the bog and give a rendition of "Hand me down my walking cane" for old times sake ! |
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13 Apr 05 - 09:10 AM (#1459908) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Lowden Jameswright I don't wish to sound defeatist & negative here, but I'm afraid there's nothing and nowhere in Whitby to replace the Plough as THE true Heartbeat of Whitby Town (Folk week speaking of course). Where else is there a venue that supports at least FIVE different music sessions at the same time? 1. The main room (Bar room) 2. The pool room. 3. The lounge 4. Upstairs (singarounds) 5. Backyard It's these various locations and such rich variety of music that makes (made) the Plough so unique. Everyone's tastes are (were) catered for, and that provides (provided) a powerful magnet for both musicians and holidaymakers. Other factors are (were) at play here: The thoroughfare nature of the pub allows (allowed) folks to check all music forms before choosing which flavour to savour. The wonderful variety within one area location enables (enabled) folks to relax rather than roam around town looking like aimless musical drifters. Rapid and excellent service at the Bar (can anywhere else cope with that level of turnover in such an efficient way?) Fantastic atmosphere and a ready-made (and appreciative) audience. I could go on, but I'm already getting boring. Notice I've not mentioned the quality of the beer, but the stout's always good. What can replace it? – suggestions on a post card please……… |
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13 Apr 05 - 11:56 AM (#1460068) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: GUEST To emphasise how serious Humphrey Smith is, Sam Smith brewery has now sent round an engineer to disable the sound on the fruit machines in their pubs! They seem to think that this will make no difference to the punters. Well it does, because no-one is playing on them anymore. But it's pointless because a lot of people have stopped going into their pubs anyway. |
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13 Apr 05 - 12:34 PM (#1460095) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Charliestu I mirror all the sentiments regards the 'demise' of the Plough -I started singing there in 1980. Yeah but, no but! why not try FILO Folk (First In Last Out Pub at the back of the Hosptial) on a Tuesday night (goin almost 2 years now) and now on a Saturday night wef 16 Apr. Beer is Tetleys and Cameron's, tis a friendly pub as I'm sure Raggytash will vouch for. Just because we're off the beaten track don't mean that it don't happen - we're only a stones throw from the festival's major camp site on route into town. |
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13 Apr 05 - 12:38 PM (#1460097) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Raggytash Will vouch for that indeed, cracking little pub, friendly landlord, tolerant locals who seem to enjoy the craic. the guy who organises the folk night is a bit dodgy though! You can pay me later Charlie |
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13 Apr 05 - 01:01 PM (#1460115) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Banjo-Flower So what street is the First In Last Out Pub on please? Gerry |
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13 Apr 05 - 02:48 PM (#1460219) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: McGrath of Harlow Agreed - it is the heart of the festival, so much music you could spend the whole week there. Sam Smiths beers would appear to be one obvious thing to do, and that hits at the brewery itself, rather than the licensees. I note from the sites thatbcame up when I googled with "Sam Smiths beer" that they seem to export a fair amount to the States, reasonably enough, since they make some good beer. But if our friends over there could do us a favour and amend their drinking habits to cut it out, it would be helpful. There's other brewers who haven't done something like this. And inform the people who import it, of course. |
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13 Apr 05 - 02:49 PM (#1460221) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: McGrath of Harlow Agreed - it is the heart of the festival, so much music you could spend the whole week there. Boycotting Sam Smiths beers would appear to be one obvious thing to do, and that hits at the brewery itself, rather than the licensees. I note from the sites thatbcame up when I googled with "Sam Smiths beer" that they seem to export a fair amount to the States, reasonably enough, since they make some good beer. But if our friends over there could do us a favour and amend their drinking habits to cut it out, it would be helpful. There's other brewers who haven't done something like this. And inform the people who import it, of course. |
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14 Apr 05 - 03:57 AM (#1460771) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: GUEST,Raggytash So good they said it twice |
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14 Apr 05 - 04:27 AM (#1460790) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: s&r Perhaps the new model of the profitable pub is based on Wetherspoons. Whistst I love live music in pubs, there is something very comfortable in a pub with reasonable food and drink at sensible prices, and no Juke box or Musak. I fear for live pub music, that more chains could go the same way. Rather than avoiding these chains we could all concentrate on a high level of support for the pubs that encourage live music by turning up and filling the pubs on folk nights - if every folkie visited an extra folk night once or twice a monthe the increased profits would send a signal to Sam Smiths et al Stu |
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14 Apr 05 - 02:48 PM (#1461315) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Linda Kelly having been in many a Wetherspoons this is what I see- booze so cheap that its a binge drinkers heaven-nothing civilized, nothing inivative just cheap booze- same menu its a macdonalds with alcohol thats all. |
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14 Apr 05 - 02:49 PM (#1461316) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Linda Kelly oh and the ladies loos are always upstairs |
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15 Apr 05 - 12:28 PM (#1462252) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: GUEST,Jim Any suggestions as to decent alternatives? If I don't get to hear "Hand me down my walking cane" again I think I'll have to emigrate. |
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15 Apr 05 - 12:55 PM (#1462273) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Charliestu Regards query about location of FILO Folk. All musicians, singers, bards and 'pode people' of any ability are more than welcome at 1 York Terrace, Whitby. Max capacity is 60! |
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15 Apr 05 - 01:03 PM (#1462279) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: McGrath of Harlow You've been in then wrong Wetherspoons, Linda. Ours is very civiised down the quiet end, with shelves of interesting books to read and no smoking, and pleasant servers. No live music, but then no canned music either, which is a relief. |
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15 Apr 05 - 02:29 PM (#1462333) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Banjo-Flower Thanks Charliestu Gerry |
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18 Apr 05 - 10:14 AM (#1464313) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Lowden Jameswright Is the FILO pub up for an invasion of ex-Plough folkies during folk week? |
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18 Apr 05 - 11:40 AM (#1464357) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: GUEST,Raggytash I'm pretty sure the landlord would be delighted, although it may br a good idea to warn him in advance so he can ensure copious amounts of alcofrol are available |
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18 Apr 05 - 11:55 AM (#1464370) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: GUEST How far is the Filo from the Plough? |
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18 Apr 05 - 12:59 PM (#1464433) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Raggytash about 1/2 a mile |
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18 Apr 05 - 01:59 PM (#1464484) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: GUEST,McFat I've read this thread with interest. I've never bin a Plough regular but I have always realised it's 'importance; during folk week now here comes the dicotamy, I for one am going to boycott Sam Smiths because of Humph's decision I suggest you all do the same but the teanants at the Plough shouldn't cos them loss of earnings should we do like Sidmouth and use the a particular pub in this case the Plough as a non music 'meeting' venue any thots |
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18 Apr 05 - 02:46 PM (#1464520) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Nice Buns You may not have a chance to boycott the Plough in folk week... Sam Smiths will only deliver the normal week on week order for folk week. Gill usually has three orders that week... he will probably run out of beer before Sunday if head office dont change their mind. |
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19 Apr 05 - 03:34 AM (#1465046) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: GUEST,Roger the Skiffler via the cellar door Reading these Sam Smith threads with interest, and sadness, I now know where the phrase "couldn't organise a pissup in a brewery" comes from! Should I boycott Sam Smith beer when it's the guest ale in my local jazz club [after campaigning vociferously for at least one decent bitter to be available alongside the nondescript "Courage Best" (sic)]? RtS |
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19 Apr 05 - 11:08 AM (#1465369) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: brid widder I wrote to Humphrey when this was first announced... no I haven't had a reply.... I have and will boycott SS pubs everywhere... not just in folk week... I will especially miss the excellent food in the Jolly Sailors!... I know where I'm not welcome. I don't use the Plough much but will miss the atmosphere which oozes out of the front door into Baxtergate |
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19 Apr 05 - 12:40 PM (#1465432) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: The Shambles Perhaps if all those who usually frequent The Plough during the festival were to write and express their view to Sam Smiths - a solution may yet be found? |
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19 Apr 05 - 12:57 PM (#1465464) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Raggytash Shambles, many of us have already done so, I for one, did not get the courtesy of a reply |
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19 Apr 05 - 04:44 PM (#1465711) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Tyke So thats it all settled then it's up to Raggytash's Caravan in Folk Week for a sing session. I hope you have plenty of Homebrew in stock Raggytash. I must say it was dam good of you to offer Open House like that. It's up at Stoops Cross so what is the addres again Raggytash and Cheers :-) |
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19 Apr 05 - 06:57 PM (#1465866) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: GUEST,MC Fat Raggy and Mrs Wombat have nice cheese (grommitt) I can vouch for that but lets try to do th best for't music at as many places as we can... fuck Sams |
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19 Apr 05 - 08:08 PM (#1465929) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Banjo-Flower Thats the singing session sorted out then but where do we go for tunes in the sunshine(do'nt anyone dare mention rain) Gerry |
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20 Apr 05 - 12:03 PM (#1466388) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Lowden Jameswright Outside at t'Middle Earth? |
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20 Apr 05 - 12:28 PM (#1466404) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: The Beast of Farlington I got the courtesy of a reply - but it was the same as if I hadn't got a reply. If you didn't get a reply, were you polite to him in your letters? My reply was handwritten on Sam Smith's headed paper. After January he got fed up talking about it I hear. Rumour has it that he has realised what a stupid decision he has made but is too proud to do a u-turn. |
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20 Apr 05 - 12:49 PM (#1466414) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Raggytash Not only was I polite I tried to be constructive, I was not sorry to see the back of loud jukeboxes and big screen TV's and indicated this in my letter, I would gladly see a return to the pubs of my youth where a piano was played on a regular basis with the assembled company either joining in or adjoining to another room |
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20 Apr 05 - 08:09 PM (#1466675) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Banjo-Flower With all due respect to "Outside at t'Middle Earth"(where I've also played many times)I do'nt put it in the same league as the Plough yard Gerry |
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21 Apr 05 - 02:12 AM (#1466811) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: GUEST,The Shambles I think the important thing is for Sam Smiths to be informed of the trouble this has caused - in particular for this fesival. If regular festival folk can't take the time and troble to pass on how they feel - this owner and other will know exactly how much notice to take of folkies as customers. Perhaps they are right to ignore it? Many folk arriving will not be aware and will expect things at the Plough to be as usual. Perhaps a petition could be arranged that would show the true strength of feeling? |
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21 Apr 05 - 05:36 AM (#1466848) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: GUEST,Betsy The only good thing about it was the beer in the Plough was always crap.Nowt to do with various Landlords and Landladies it just alsways was crap. Still it's a great pity that F*cking idiots like this H.Smith can have so much ill effect on so many peoples lives . |
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21 Apr 05 - 06:03 AM (#1466859) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: GUEST,Raggytash The beer was poor because it never had time to settle properly as so much was being sold. I suggest and will try to facilitate a letter to Humphrey to be sent by anyone concerned during the moor and Coast Festival. It may have a very slight chance of encouraging him to reconsider this decision. |
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21 Apr 05 - 06:52 AM (#1466874) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: GUEST Nice thought but a waste of time, energy I believe should be directed towards people/directors of companys who give a shit |
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21 Apr 05 - 12:10 PM (#1467071) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Lowden Jameswright "With all due respect to "Outside at t'Middle Earth"(where I've also played many times)I do'nt put it in the same league as the Plough yard Gerry" As already posted Gerry, I agree with this sentiment wholeheartedly. The Plough was unique as a festival venue. However, I'm assuming Humph Smith is not going to change his mind (at least not in time for this year) and hundreds of folkies and holidaymakers will move elsewhere. As far as I can see there's going to be little extra capacity in existing folk-friendly pubs so we need somewhere "new" - perhaps the Shambles can take up the challenge? |
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21 Apr 05 - 07:49 PM (#1467428) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Banjo-Flower Do you mean Shambles the pub or Shambles the Mudcatter? Gerry |
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21 Apr 05 - 08:26 PM (#1467479) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: GUEST If one was an investigative journalist I dare say one would start to ask some questions about Sam Smiths. Like - * Why was Colin Black asked to clear his desk and leave within the week? * Why are there so few area managers now and why have so many gone recently or their jobs been changed? * Why has the company been restructured in its areas recently? * Why have the pubs been stopped from giving out free beer tickets for quizzes - dominoes - pool teams etc? * Why have the pubs been stopped from offering free food on similar nights? * Why have so many managers recently left and more planning to leave after bonus (yeah right) time - even though it is clear that the company will 'make up' the bonuses for this year because of their decisions? * Why does the company (ie HS) no longer accept comment in his management meetings but holds court even more than he used to and accepts no discussion? * When will the managers have a reply to their concerns/letters/memos which are constantly avoided by a management structure with no power (or come to that - people)? * What happens to the working mens clubs that cannot have entertainment? And this is just the start. Today Mudcat. Soon real media. If one was an investigative journalist I dare say one would start to ask some questions about Sam Smiths - but one would get nowhere because it's got nothing to do with being a pub chain it's a property company run by a very rich and shrewd man who gives not a shit for his employees - but there's a story in that. The chances of music returning in the short - medium - long term? If I were a betting man I'd hock all me pigeons, ferrets and whippets and stick it all on nowt to bugger all. |
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22 Apr 05 - 03:49 AM (#1467710) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: GUEST,MC Fat Interesting comments and a great strap line at the end there 'Guest' perhaps some CAMRA members can inform What's Brewring or the equiv of the Morning Advertiser. Is Malcolm going to put an obituary in the programme for the Plough ? |
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22 Apr 05 - 11:47 AM (#1468037) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Lowden Jameswright Wow! - a right can o' worms this is turning out to be.... obviously "GUEST" has some very interesting insider knowledge that throws extra light on this saga. Interesting that he chooses to remain anonymous. Talking about "Shambles" seems very appropriate no? I was talking about Shambles the pub - maybe it can help us get over the decision-making shambles that is Sam Smiths?! |
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24 Apr 05 - 01:38 PM (#1469391) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Tyke It was St Georges Day Yesterday and William Shakespeare Birthday (He was Bard from Sam Smiths Pubs :-)) it was also the anniversary of the mass trespass that opened up the moorland to ramblers. The idea being that the police could not arrest everyone for trespass. Well it worked and now we can sing that famous song how doses it go? I can never remember the verse about singing on mass in Sam Smiths pubs were ever they might be. The idea was that the boss could not sack all his Landlords. Just in case it gets support for a re enactment any one fancy doing coordination of PM's on this subject? How many Sam Smiths Pubs are there anyway? |
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03 May 05 - 12:27 PM (#1477116) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: GUEST,Jim Whitby was full to bustin' this weekend (hardly surprising) and the Moor & Coast Festival a roaring success. Staff at the Endeavour couldn't pull drinks fast enough to quench the thirsts of the many singers assembled there. Reports from the Plough paint a sorry picture of empty spaces and forlorn faces. No doubt the Endeavour will continue to pick up Sam Smith's outcasts. Someone mentioned the Bottom House as a possible venue for folk week. Any comments? |
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03 May 05 - 12:42 PM (#1477132) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Oaklet Jim, The Bottom House has a certain ring to it..... |
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03 May 05 - 12:46 PM (#1477138) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: GUEST,Jim Ring - Ah yes - got your number! |
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03 May 05 - 03:51 PM (#1477296) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: gnomad Been to the BH, not during folk week, although I have a vague recollection that some minor folk week daytime activity took place there in 2003 or 04. I think on the whole that it is more one of the Granby school of thought on folkies: "We'll feed and/or water them if they can be bothered to come as far out from the centre as this, but our regulars would prefer it if they would keep quiet" I freely admit I have not canvassed their views, it's more a feeling picked up from talking with other pub users in the town. BH is my nearest pub, but is not one I use. |
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03 May 05 - 05:47 PM (#1477371) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: mandomad Crappy Beer int' Botty house, no interest in Folk Music, & a long way from home. mandomad |
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03 May 05 - 07:42 PM (#1477473) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: brid widder nah... a long walk for a half of Tetleys.... at best... Whitby has better |
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04 May 05 - 10:32 AM (#1477854) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: GUEST,Jim Fair comment folks - that pub's a no no then. Someone's going to benefit big style though from the Plough's demise. |
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15 Aug 05 - 07:33 AM (#1542069) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Lowden Jameswright As the big week draws ever nearer, do we have any solution to the capacity problem created by that dimwit of an executive? |
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15 Aug 05 - 09:47 AM (#1542168) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: muppett We could all turn up as usual in the plough and play air instruments and speak the lyrics. |
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15 Aug 05 - 09:57 AM (#1542177) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Paco Rabanne How about a spot of mime muppet? I fancy doing a silent sing song. |
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15 Aug 05 - 10:06 AM (#1542181) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: GUEST,Raggytash Hi Muppett, I too thought of something along those lines, however Gil's job could be on the line, Humphrey's management style is abrupt (alledgedly!) |
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15 Aug 05 - 11:34 AM (#1542269) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: GUEST,guest regarding trying the shambles as a possible venue it may be worth checking but i am almost certain that they were refused an entertainments licence earlier this year which means that they can not allow the use of their premises for singing or music sessions! |
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18 Aug 05 - 12:31 PM (#1544971) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: GUEST "do we have any solution to the capacity problem created by that dimwit of an executive?" Judging by comments on this and the Whitby Folk Week thread it would appear not. I fear we can look forward to a fair share of chaos and discomfort next week, but future years should gradually solve the problem as fewer folks go as a result. Doom and gloom. It's gonna bloody rain all week too, so we'll be glued to each other in wet pac-a-macs. Pessimist Joe |
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18 Aug 05 - 01:13 PM (#1545002) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: GUEST,bev I have had many happy hours in the plough and will miss old friends and new. Thanks for the good times. |
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18 Aug 05 - 01:48 PM (#1545026) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Raggytash Bev I too have had many, many happy hours in the Plough, however Humphrey is not going to spoil my enjoyment, I'll just have to go to a a variety of pubs to link up with everyone ....... now that's a hardship. A good many of the Plough gang will be on the Glaisdale train at 12.38 Sunday. |
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18 Aug 05 - 02:39 PM (#1545063) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: GUEST I cant make the train but will be arriving to camp sunday evening, and will have a riot of a time in defiance of the small minded old spoilsport. |
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18 Aug 05 - 11:40 PM (#1545429) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: GUEST,Bill the Collie wot a shame |
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19 Aug 05 - 09:56 AM (#1545634) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: GUEST Might be an idea to take a portable seat along - I think chairs will be at a premium next week. Gil should have a few to spare though! |
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19 Aug 05 - 01:57 PM (#1545821) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Nick I was in the Plough earlier today and was strck by the number of 'please do not sing or play' notices Sad |
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23 Aug 05 - 06:11 PM (#1548007) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Dennis the Elder The Middle Earth and the Black horse had atmosphere this year but I'll never get over the whitby plough, I see it every where, I missed the singers who went there, but not all the seats were bare. Sorry I'm still recovering Denn |
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28 Aug 05 - 10:16 AM (#1551516) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: cushty I visited the plough. sad for the landlord, but whitby folk week is bigger than the plough. I had some fab times in great pubs where I might not have gone had the plough been the same.ANOTHER GREAT WEEK, THANKS TO ALL. |
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28 Aug 05 - 01:54 PM (#1551648) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: GUEST,Guest Don't forget the Plough and the landlord were moved to the spa courtesy of Snark for the final ceilidh. Old building more like dentist's waiting room though. |
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28 Aug 05 - 02:31 PM (#1551678) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: LesB I went into the Plough with Snark Rapper on their 21st anniversary heritage tour. When they presented the landlord & landlady with a commemorative Snark plaque to hang on the wall & we all spoke happy birthday to Snark & then spoke 'For he's a Jolly Good Fellow'! Cheers Les |
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28 Aug 05 - 06:58 PM (#1551808) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Surreysinger While indulging in fish and chips in the Magpie in the middle of folk week, I was told that there had been a straw effigy of "Sam Smith" somewhere on the harbour front with a noose around its neck and various messages pinned to it - anyone know anything about this, as I never actually chanced to see it, if it existed? (The person who told me was actually a worker for another Sam Smith's pub outside Whitby, who seemed to be overjoyed at having seen it, and commented that the staff at her pub were more than fed up with the situation, and with not having enough to do as the number of punters visiting the pub had dropped considerably since the music ban was instituted) |
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29 Aug 05 - 10:41 AM (#1552213) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: GUEST I was present at the party on the beach and danced qand sang till three in the morning.there was a bonfire , but Iwas too late to see the effigy although I am sure it existed. |
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29 Aug 05 - 03:46 PM (#1552392) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Michael We saw the efigy, can't remember when exactly, early in the week.It was outside the bank on the corner with the the 'Irish' buskers who are always there,. Don't know if it was anything to do with them or not.(I put 'Irish' in quotes as I haven't spoken to them so don't know if they are or not). Mike |
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29 Aug 05 - 05:10 PM (#1552447) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Banjo-Flower Well I went in the Plough and had a pint with Gil for old times sake and I think folk week without music in his pub really effected him emotionally (best wishes Gil we really missed the You and the Plough) Gerry |
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30 Aug 05 - 03:35 AM (#1552686) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: Manitas_at_home I was at Whitby and saw the buskers outside the bank. It sounded to me as if they were miming to pre-recorded tracks. Music with the soul pressed out of it. |
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05 Sep 05 - 12:30 PM (#1556620) Subject: RE: Whitby Plough - Folk heartbeat flatlines From: GUEST,Jim The SS effigy was burned on the beach, witnessed by hundreds of folkies in party mood. Cans of beer and lager were being sold by some enterprising fellow, long after the pubs had closed. One folkie even wrote a song about the demise of the Plough, and Sam Smith was demonised in verse. I'm sure quite a few pubs saw an increase in trade on the back of the Plough ban; certainly the landlord of the Fleece had a smile from ear to ear (and back again) everyday that week! Gil visited the Fleece (Wednesday night I think) and was given a warm welcome. Friday night was packed to the rafters, and the landlord was given a rousing 3 cheers followed by "For he's a jolly good fellow" - a suggestion that Humphrey Smith might be afforded the same accolade was met with derision. The Plough was a nice pub to visit for a quiet drink and bit of lunch, before moving off to livelier venues. By 2:30 the Plough was pretty much empty. Most folk I spoke to were of the opinion the Plough would be back in business next year.......... fat chance! "Heartbeat" was sung a few times (in the Fleece) - just for old times sake. |