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29 Aug 05 - 09:11 AM (#1552153) Subject: BS: US Admin ignoring Chavez death threat? From: Peter K (Fionn) So an American Christian takes it upon himself to broadcast a call for the assassination of a democratically elected head of state, Hugo Chavez. And the US Admin response, as it continues to prosecute its self-styled "War on Terror"? The response is to deem the Good Christian's remarks "inappropriate." I suppose US Christians are entitled to consider Chavez fair game. After all, they are Christians, and he is (shudder) a Commie. On top of which, Venezuela is sitting on the world's fifth biggest oil reserves. So anything that might help topple its leader must be welcomed with open arms. And presumably Jesse Jackson, who questioned the broadcast incitement, can be prosecuted for his unpatriotic behaviour. |
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29 Aug 05 - 10:16 AM (#1552201) Subject: RE: BS: US Admin ignoring Chavez death threat? From: Wolfgang to ignore = not to react as strongly as an observer deems appropriate? Wolfgang |
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29 Aug 05 - 10:26 AM (#1552208) Subject: RE: BS: US Admin ignoring Chavez death threat? From: The Fooles Troupe He committed a call to incite a terrorist act. He's not an Arab. He contributes to American Political Parties. |
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29 Aug 05 - 12:31 PM (#1552276) Subject: RE: BS: US Admin ignoring Chavez death threat? From: McGrath of Harlow And it was the American Government which he was asking to commit the terrorist act in question. No different really from those who called on the American Government to carry out an illegal invasion of Iraq, and who backed it when it followed their advice. |
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29 Aug 05 - 03:21 PM (#1552371) Subject: RE: BS: US Admin ignoring Chavez death threat? From: Peter K (Fionn) Yes, Wolfgang. To ignore can be to support, as I think you know. Witness the eloquent silence of Pius XII. Venezuela seeks action Venezuela's reaction may not b well judged, but America's shows just how selective the admin is prepared to be in dealing with incitement of this nature. |
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29 Aug 05 - 09:22 PM (#1552598) Subject: RE: BS: US Admin ignoring Chavez death threat? From: John on the Sunset Coast Peter K, methinks you over-react to this. By not placing the offending comments to the person who made them, you are painting Christians with too broad a brush, rather than to Pat Robertson himself.. You have extrapolated one man's comments and ascribed them to American Christians. Actually, most responsible Christians (and others) have roundly condemned those comments, as well they ought. The administration has not ignored, and thereby tacitly approved of Robertson's comments. Your comparison to Pope Pius XII are also inappropriate, since the government is not standing by while Robertson acts on his words. If you wish to condemn Pat Robertson, I'm with you! If you go further than that, I think you show more about yourself than American Christians. |
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29 Aug 05 - 09:37 PM (#1552607) Subject: RE: BS: US Admin ignoring Chavez death threat? From: McGrath of Harlow He's probably actually made it a bit less likely that Washington will take out a contract on Chavez. |
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29 Aug 05 - 09:53 PM (#1552620) Subject: RE: BS: US Admin ignoring Chavez death threat? From: John on the Sunset Coast McGrath, let's make a list, and publish it, of all the guy we don't want the U.S. to assasinate, but we'll say they should so they won't. Sounds like a plan to me. |
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30 Aug 05 - 03:23 AM (#1552682) Subject: RE: BS: US Admin ignoring Chavez death threat? From: CarolC Way back in the days following the Exxon Valdez disaster in Alaska, there was a woman, Riki Ott, who had, up until that time, made her living as a fisherman off the coast of Alaska. She was a friend of one of my old friends from high school. During that time, my friend was keeping me posted on what was going on with Riki. After the oil spill, she wasn't able to continue to make her living as a fisherman, and she became a lobbyist for enviornmental groups. She was very effective at this, and threats had been made on her life by people who didn't like what she was doing. As a deterrent, some people took out an insurance policy on her life, with the beneficiary being an environmental lobby group, and the benefit was at least a million dollars to be given to the group if she got killed. Maybe Chavez ought to have an insurance policy taken out for his life with the benefits (some obscenely large amount) going to some organization or group that the Bush people hate. |
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30 Aug 05 - 05:42 PM (#1553024) Subject: RE: BS: US Admin ignoring Chavez death threat? From: McGrath of Harlow I don't think that list idea would work for the likes of us, John. Even if we copied this Robertson chappie and listed people we did want the US Government to "take out". |
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30 Aug 05 - 07:23 PM (#1553089) Subject: RE: BS: US Admin ignoring Chavez death threat? From: Bee-dubya-ell Please explain exactly when and where a "death threat" was made against Chavez as the title of this thread claims? An idiot suggesting that something might be a good idea is not a threat. I sincerely doubt Mr. Chavez felt in any way threatened by Robertson's remarks unless he is under the delusion that Robertson actually carries a lot of clout. Heck, he's probably grateful because all the hoopla that's been generated pretty much guarantees that the US will never try to "take him out". |
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30 Aug 05 - 07:48 PM (#1553115) Subject: RE: BS: US Admin ignoring Chavez death threat? From: The Fooles Troupe Macbeth... A certain King of England with a troublesome Head of the Church... The production of other examples is left as an exercise for the student. |
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30 Aug 05 - 08:13 PM (#1553132) Subject: RE: BS: US Admin ignoring Chavez death threat? From: McGrath of Harlow True enough, it's not a question of a "death threat" - it's a matter of inciting a terrorist action. A valid distinction, but one without a great deal of difference. |
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30 Aug 05 - 08:29 PM (#1553142) Subject: RE: BS: US Admin ignoring Chavez death threat? From: akenaton You can bet your life that the powers in America are extremly worried about Mr Chavez and the prospect of Socialism taking root in Latin America. Mr Chavez is a comrade of Fidel Castro, and Fidel is sure to have briefed him on the dirty tricks of the CIA. Mr Chavez is apparently very popular in Venezuela and his popularity will be his safeguard, rather than any "good heartedness" on the part of corporate America. As has been said on another thread, it looks as if something important is happening in South America, and given the situation evolving in the middle East, USA's response will be very interesting. I think the day is not far off when the "Stars and stripes" will be permenantly replacedby the "Skull and crossbones"...Ake |
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30 Aug 05 - 09:16 PM (#1553172) Subject: RE: BS: US Admin ignoring Chavez death threat? From: McGrath of Harlow Or perhaps the other way round. |
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31 Aug 05 - 01:14 AM (#1553254) Subject: RE: BS: US Admin ignoring Chavez death threat? From: LadyJean In 2002 Robertson was saying they should do the same thing to Saddam Hussein. Bush didn't listen then. I doubt he'll listen now. The first amendment gives Americans the right to say crazy stupid things. Pat Robertson is one of many who insist that our country should commit crimes against humanity. Anne Coulter's post 9/11 pronunciations are another prime example of the way the first amendment protects idiots. Pat Robertson had said that only Christians and Jews should be allowed to vote. He accused former president Clinton of a series of murders. Before Islam became a convenient enemy, he was pushing theories of conspiracies of witches. The guy has a problem. Of late, Robertson has taken a back seat to his proteges, Ralph Reid and James Dobson, as a leader of the Christian right. |
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31 Aug 05 - 05:06 AM (#1553333) Subject: RE: BS: US Admin ignoring Chavez death threat? From: akenaton McGrath ....Your point is well taken, but personally I think the "jolly rodger" will fly for a very long time before we see real freedom again. |
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31 Aug 05 - 05:14 AM (#1553337) Subject: RE: BS: US Admin ignoring Chavez death threat? From: Hrothgar Um, I'm confused. Who says this bloke Robertson is a Christian? Nothing I have noticed him doing or saying leads me to consider him one. |
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31 Aug 05 - 06:29 AM (#1553391) Subject: RE: BS: US Admin ignoring Chavez death threat? From: Paul Burke He does, Hrothgar. His site. He's no different from thousands of other Christians down the years. It's been normal, since the very early days, to kill people, denounce your enemies to the authorities, call for invasions of other countries, have people imprisoned or executed, drive whole peoples from their homes, it's all mainstream Christianity. No sect that has ever held even a smidgeon of power has been immune. What astounds me is that people who DON'T believe in that sort of thing (i.e. most of the Christians I've ever met) still find it useful to keep the name, when all it does is give a reflected respectability to the Foaming Fundies. |
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31 Aug 05 - 07:41 AM (#1553436) Subject: RE: BS: US Admin ignoring Chavez death threat? From: John P I think the point of the original post was that the same words from a Muslim cleric, directed against Tony Blair, would have produced a much stronger response from the Bush administration. JP |
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31 Aug 05 - 07:48 AM (#1553446) Subject: RE: BS: US Admin ignoring Chavez death threat? From: The Fooles Troupe Us and Them, mate! We're OK! but as for him... |
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31 Aug 05 - 11:03 AM (#1553579) Subject: RE: BS: US Admin ignoring Chavez death threat? From: John on the Sunset Coast No, John P, despite the title of the orginal thread, the purpose is to go off on Christians, which cudgel Paul Burke takes up quite well. This non-Christian person does not understand all those cheap shots. What about all those non Christian wars, BCE, Attilla and Ghengis Kahn, the Vikings. In the 20th century. Hitler and Stalin were not Christians. Mao and Ho Chi Minh were not Christians. The Ayatollahs and the Islamic Fundamentalists are not Christian. Christians have no monopoly on killing! |
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01 Sep 05 - 10:09 AM (#1553689) Subject: RE: BS: US Admin ignoring Chavez death threat? From: Paul Burke I never said they did. What I DID say is that the idea that Christians are somehow different from the Attilas, Hitlers, Ghenghises, Caligulae, Stalins, Maos, Pol Pots and other assorted minor offenders, is totally without historical foundation. Someone expressed surprise that a self- proclaimed Christian government (fond of kiling their enemies) was failing to upbraid a Christian minister for calling on them to kill someone. It's the fact that anyone thinks Christianity (as a religion) is against killing that is surprising. It never has been, even from their earliest recorded days. Some people who call themselves Christians have read the Bible, and decided that the person they believe started their religion was against violence. they then proclaim that as a tenet of Christianity, but they are wrong. You take out of the Bible what you bring into it. These Christians are just ordinary decent people, and should recognise that fact. If you need God to tell you that violence is wrong in almost all circumstances, what would you do if someone came up and proved that the Bible didn't say that, say by the discovery of "the original text"? |
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01 Sep 05 - 10:10 AM (#1553692) Subject: RE: BS: US Admin ignoring Chavez death threat? From: Wolfgang That was not my point, Peter. To ignore something can be seen as support of course. The US government, however, has not ignored the threat but it has reacted as you have posted yourself. You can take them to task for the inappropriateness of the reaction and I would agree with that. I could be wrong, but the two phrases US admin ignores death threat and US admin calls it inappropriate in juxtaposition sounded wrong to me. "To ignore" for me would imply that they do not react at all. Wolfgang |