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06 Nov 05 - 10:02 AM (#1598626) Subject: Sheffield Carols 2005 From: GUEST,Folkiedave (cookieless at the moment) The "Carols" which take place at Worrall and Dungworth by recent tradition begin on the first Sunday after Armistice Sunday. This year it means they will begin on Sunday November 20th. Best regards, Dave |
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06 Nov 05 - 10:08 AM (#1598629) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols 2005 From: GUEST Listings available on http://www.folk-network.com/ you may need to scroll down a bit. The list will be updated as more dates become confirmed. |
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06 Nov 05 - 11:36 AM (#1598665) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols 2005 From: Malcolm Douglas The site is still framed, so to save time here is a direct link to the listings for 2005: http://www.folk-network.com/events/2005/carols_05.html |
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06 Nov 05 - 12:19 PM (#1598686) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols 2005 From: Geoff the Duck Thanks for the links folks. We will see wnat we might be able to get to. Quack!!! GtD |
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06 Nov 05 - 01:07 PM (#1598705) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols 2005 From: Emma B Just back from Bonfire celebrations in Sheffield and already time to be thinking of the carol season and braving the Snake in winter. Hope to see you in Dungworth again Dave - are you up for the walk? |
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07 Nov 05 - 05:02 AM (#1599163) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols 2005 From: GUEST,Folkiedave (still cookieless) I´d walk a million miles for one of your smiles..... Dave |
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07 Nov 05 - 05:19 AM (#1599171) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols 2005 From: MC Fat You smooth talking fat b*stard....hope your cheese sandwich is up to it's usual standard I might just take a bite out of it on it's way to you. Jim |
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07 Nov 05 - 06:40 AM (#1599193) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols 2005 From: GUEST Less of the "fat"..... Takes one to know one I suppose. And the sandwich is simply to soak up some of the beer. Fancy a walk up yourself do you? Come and have a go if you think you´re fit enough!!...... Dave |
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07 Nov 05 - 07:00 AM (#1599204) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols 2005 From: MC Fat ..perhaps fat enuff |
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07 Nov 05 - 03:30 PM (#1599487) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols 2005 From: GUEST,Cats Padstow Carols, Cornwall, are the Sundays (4,11,18) in Decemeber plus Christmas Eve. Meet in the Market Square. Enjoy the Sheffield carols and I'm sure I'll get back up to hear them again soon. |
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09 Nov 05 - 12:31 PM (#1600752) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols 2005 From: GUEST So sad not to see Oughtibridge on the list. Humphrey Smith wants stuffing. |
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09 Nov 05 - 03:09 PM (#1600856) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols 2005 From: JohnB On the otherside of the water, the Orange Peel Carolers will be taking their 4th kick at the tradition (OK so we are pretty new to this compared with Sheffield) at the Golden Kiwi in Cambridge "Ontario" on Sunday December the 18th from 3 till 6 pm. Plus other venues yet TBD. JohnB Messages from multiple threads combined. Messages below are from a new thread. |
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30 Nov 05 - 07:57 AM (#1617097) Subject: Sheffield Carols From: GUEST,Folkie I was thinking about going to Dungworth on Sunday but something Eliza Carthy said back in the summer makes me think I ought to check it's happening before the long drive up to Yorkshire. Does anyone local know if it's definitely on? |
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30 Nov 05 - 09:24 AM (#1617171) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols From: Wyrd Sister Up and running! |
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30 Nov 05 - 11:55 AM (#1617290) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols From: GUEST Click here for up to date information. |
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30 Nov 05 - 03:07 PM (#1617435) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols From: John J Can anyone confirm if the Traveller's Rest at Oughtibridge is happening this year, it's a Sam Smiths house and you know how full of cheer Humph can be....especially when there's singing in pubs. JJ |
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30 Nov 05 - 07:13 PM (#1617613) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols From: Malcolm Douglas We've had a thread on the Oughtibridge question very recently. Anybody wanting to know details should phone them and ask. I have some updates from Pat Malham to add to the other listings; these will be up in an hour or so. |
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01 Dec 05 - 07:53 AM (#1618011) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols From: GUEST,Geoff Wright After successfully restarting the regular carol singing sessions last year, here are the dates for this years events at The Sportsman,Lodge Moor.All commence at 8.30pm. Monday 5th December Monday 12th December Monday 19th December |
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02 Dec 05 - 06:10 AM (#1618329) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols From: The Shambles Can anyone confirm if the Traveller's Rest at Oughtibridge is happening this year, it's a Sam Smiths house and you know how full of cheer Humph can be....especially when there's singing in pubs. See also Humphrey Smith is a ****** |
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02 Dec 05 - 07:45 AM (#1618390) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols From: Folkiedave Please feel free to read the thread that Shambles has put a link to. However the landlord of the pub in question has asked for no publicity. Please respect his wishes. This is a polite request from me asking people not to post to that particular thread - it has dropped off, let's not revive it. Best regards, Dave |
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02 Dec 05 - 07:49 AM (#1618393) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols From: Folkiedave Can I add that from now on there is carol singing almost every night of the week somewhere in the area. Go to the link that Malcolm has posted above for a listing. Hark! Hark! Dave |
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02 Dec 05 - 07:49 AM (#1618394) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols From: GUEST,MC Fat Think the 'ull contingent may be over on Sunday probably at the Royal, however they are most likely going to Fagans after for an impromtue session after the carols. |
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02 Dec 05 - 10:05 PM (#1619045) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols From: Malcolm Douglas More updates now online, courtesy of Pat Malham. |
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03 Dec 05 - 02:21 AM (#1619096) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols From: The Shambles I am sorry and I respect the licensee's wishes in this matter but I do think that it perhaps a little late for such calls. If Yorkshire Folk Arts chooses to speculate and advertise well in advance on its website that a venue has problems – you rather have to live with the inevitable public concern this causes and the other consequences of this action. http://www.yorkshire-folk-arts.com/info/archive/sam_smiths.html The following still appears on the above site. Some of the consequences in Yorkshire of the Smiths ban will be Folk, jazz and all party sessions will cease at Nellie's, Beverley. The White Horse Folk Club's last meeting there will be on 17 January 2005 (check our directory for details of their new venue), and see http://members.aol.com/whitehorsefolk/nellies.htm Performances of the Sheffield Carols at the Travellers in Oughtibridge will have to end. Whitby Folk Week will no longer be able to use The Plough for singarounds. Whitby Folk Club has moved to the Friendship Rowing Club |
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03 Dec 05 - 04:43 PM (#1619464) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols From: Malcolm Douglas That is an archive news item, as you well know. The page carries the date of original publication, and the date of last modification. There was no speculation involved. YFA carried the information it was given by the people concerned locally; it was accurate. If, subsequently, details change, then we will carry them. If we are asked not to by the people concerned locally, then we will respect their wishes; as should everyone. |
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04 Dec 05 - 05:00 AM (#1619674) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols From: The Shambles Mr Smith and PRS/PPL is one thing. However, it would appear to me that there was plenty time to sort out any problems presented to this event by the new Licensing Act. If I am successful in the arguments I have presented to my local licensing authority - to enable participatory activities without them being considered as Regulated Entertainment - I am sure that others with similar problems would be very unhappy if I were to insist that this be kept quiet and these measures only applied locally. I feel that any arguments should be made together towards those who feel that they have some right or need to present difficulties to these participatory events - rather than amongst those who are in full support of them. |
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04 Dec 05 - 08:52 AM (#1619745) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols From: Les from Hull It looks like Maggie and I won't be over for the carols this year - things have got a bit busy. A very Merry Christmas to all our Sheffield friends, any road! |
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04 Dec 05 - 09:57 AM (#1619780) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols From: treewind Anyone interested on the Sheffield carols should know that there's a new edition of Jack Goodison's collection of "Local and Traditional" carols. Published by Forgefolk on behalf of the Rolling Stock community choir, this is the fourth edition of "The Red Book". Jack Goodison is from Stannington, one of the north Sheffield areas that has sung carols for many years. He spent years researching the Sheffield carols for publication in the first edition of this book. The Rolling Stock Company is a Derbyshire community folk choir that includes many Sheffield carols in its repertoire, and has provided financial support to complete this project. Many of the Sheffield carol singers are using old photocopies of this book which has been out of print for a while: it was first published in 1992 and the last reprint was in 2001. This new edition, authorised and approved by Jack Goodison, includes new material that he has provided, incorporated under his supervision. Full words and music in four part harmony are provided, and the whole collection has been newly computer-typeset by Jack Crawford. It's £10.00, all profits to charity (Western Park Cancer Appeal and St Luke's Hospice, Sheffield). To get a copy, initially email TheRedBook@forgefolk.com (Mary and I stayed with Jack Crawford and Jane Waltho of Forge Folk recently and bought a copy: that's how I know about it) Anahata |
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04 Dec 05 - 03:55 PM (#1619916) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols From: GUEST,big Andy anybody any idea re pub dates round Sheffield and /or South Yorks |
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04 Dec 05 - 06:20 PM (#1619980) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols From: Malcolm Douglas Links already given earlier in this thread, but I'll repeat: http://www.folk-network.com/events/2005/carols_05.html http://www.yorkshire-folk-arts.com/info/archive/carols_05.html |
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04 Dec 05 - 06:54 PM (#1619999) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols From: Folkiedave If I am successful in the arguments I have presented to my local licensing authority - to enable participatory activities without them being considered as Regulated Entertainment - I am sure that others with similar problems would be very unhappy if I were to insist that this be kept quiet and these measures only applied locally. There is a big difference Roger. You are trying to set a precedent. Here people want to the carols to continue. Selfish maybe.....but the event goes ahead. Dave |
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04 Dec 05 - 07:34 PM (#1620022) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols From: GUEST,MC Fat Think I know where Roger is coming from Dave, but here is the big but it is about the appropriateness (if that is a word) of legal action either for or agin. The Royal at Dungworth presumably has ticked the box to open early on Sundays (legally)and very welcome it was today. However when the dust settles on the new laws are we going to see swot squads descending and closing down sessions or the like maybe we need to be aware that some people may still be out to get us !!! Let's share the information and learn not antagonise the authorities into action.... Bloody good sing today dave weren't it. |
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05 Dec 05 - 02:03 AM (#1620203) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols From: The Shambles Here people want to the carols to continue. I think that is something that everyone wishes for these and similar events elsewhere - but perhaps it is time these and other events were finally valued and cherished for what there are - rather than threatened by being turned into something they are not? They are neither Regulated Entertainment or anything that PRS/PPL should be concerned with or require payment and a licence for. As far as the Licensing Act 2003 is concerned - it is either legally enabling these participatory musical activities without entertainment permission (like Morris Dancing) and without any conditions being imposed or it prevents it without entertainment permission. Which is the local authority saying it is? |
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05 Dec 05 - 09:01 AM (#1620342) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols 2005 From: Folkiedave To MC FAT: I can also see where Roger is coming from. But there is no reason to expect swot squads if the boxes have been ticked - like apparently at the Royal, Palm, Hillborough Hotel, Kelham Island Tavern, Fagan's etc. And incidentally the Walkley Cottage. Now when the Cottage applied for a licence under the old rules he was asked for £13,000 worth of improvements. This time he got it with no problems. That indicates to me that so far, notwithstanding past trouble, at the Palm for example, the local authority are being as sensible as local authorities are ever likely to be. Let me offer an analogy. A town centre pub which people in Sheffield know well, let's call it the Maison Rouge - served after time in a regular basis and night after night. It was obvious the police turned a blind eye to this. We were lucky because there were few residents around and it was slightly off the beaten track. You and I both know that music went on long into the night, I think the latest I ever left there was about 2.45 am and that was by no means a record. Now following the logic of what Roger is suggesting here - we should have told the local licensing people that they were wrong in allowing this to happen, and that since they had allowed it, all other pubs in England and Wales should be allowed to do the same. I am troubled that a unique case should be looked as an opportunity to to set a nation-wide precedent and that on top of that we are trying to second-guess the attitude of the local authority. IMHO it will end in tears if we go down that road. |
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05 Dec 05 - 09:23 AM (#1620361) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols 2005 From: John Routledge Spot on Folkiedave. One swallow doesn't make a summer :0) |
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05 Dec 05 - 09:55 AM (#1620392) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols 2005 From: The Shambles Now following the logic of what Roger is suggesting here - we should have told the local licensing people that they were wrong in allowing this to happen, and that since they had allowed it, all other pubs in England and Wales should be allowed to do the same. Probably best not to refer to logic in licensing matters. *Smiles* There is a difference in what some people are lucky enough to get away with locally by de-fault and at the tail-end of legislation and preparing the ground for the way things are going to be under the new. I fear there will be tears anyway if you try to start off under the new legislation with an illegal fudge. It is time that this issue was finally settled. The new legislation either enables these kind of events or it prevents them. If it really does prevent such things - then the words of this new law need to be changed and quickly. However, if a way can be found to enable them legally - then this will need to apply wherever the law does. I see nothing unique in this fine event as all the elements appear to some extent elswhere in the country. The history and fact that the carols may be 'traditional' makes it little different from a cockney knees-up around a pub piano. But that is not really the point - is it? Everyone everywhere should have the right to sing or make music in a pub for their own enjoyment. In fact they do have this right of freedom of expression - but we may need to fight together against those who would wish to take it away. Not with each other. |
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05 Dec 05 - 12:06 PM (#1620454) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols 2005 From: Folkiedave There is a difference in what some people are lucky enough to get away with locally by de-fault and at the tail-end of legislation and preparing the ground for the way things are going to be under the new. She did it for years and in her previous pub too!! I see nothing unique in this fine event as all the elements appear to some extent elswhere in the country. Indeed as separate entities they may well do. Though I know of no other brewery that stops its landlords "ticking the box" to allow regulated entertainment. Wetherspoons allow nothing in their pubs except drinks and food,just like Sam Smith's, but they have no tradtional events as far as I am aware since they did not exist until recently. What makes this particular event unique are the circumstances of a traditional event happening in a place where the brewery is stopping the landlord "ticking the box". If he were allowed to do this there would be no problem. The history and fact that the carols may be 'traditional' makes it little different from a cockney knees-up around a pub piano. As well as a piano it can be accompanied by organ, string quartets, brass bands and be unaccompanied. I know of no cockney knees up that people cross the Atlantic to come to on a regular basis and I am sure there is no cockney knees-up that can celebrate its existence with a biennial sell-out festival that attracts people from all over the world. Think of it as an event with music, a bit like Bampton or the Haxey Hood Game rather than as a session with carols. The history of this remarkable singing is well documented and appears in Thomas Hardy novels exactly as it appeared in Sheffield all those years ago. As well as Sheffield and North Derbyshire, we know an identical tradition exists in Glenrock Pennsylvania USA, Padstow, Odcombe and Nottighamshire and that it existed in living memory in Lancashire, North Yorkshire and North Norfolk. But that is not really the point - is it? Everyone everywhere should have the right to sing or make music in a pub for their own enjoyment. In fact they do have this right of freedom of expression - but we may need to fight together against those who would wish to take it away. Not with each other. Absoutely totally and utterly agree. And to MC FAT, great sing yesterday. |
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05 Dec 05 - 01:05 PM (#1620489) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols 2005 From: The Shambles What makes this particular event unique are the circumstances of a traditional event happening in a place where the brewery is stopping the landlord "ticking the box". If he were allowed to do this there would be no problem. But he did and he has. At the eleventh hour - he has now presented the 'problem' to your local licensing authority and because of the publicity already generated - many eyes are carefully studying their actions. The way I see things the local authority are damned if they allow it and damned if they prevent it. But they do seem rather more keen on not being seen as the ones who prevent it. But this is the problem and these remain the facts. |
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05 Dec 05 - 01:38 PM (#1620509) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols 2005 From: concertina ceol Message to the "The Shambles". Let's get back to the main point of this thread - the Sheffield Carols. If you haven't got respect for them (same as a cockney knees up! good grief!) at least allow us to discuss them without all this politics. You may be doing fantastic work on challenging licensing legislation and if you are, I aplaud you and thank you - but can you publicise it in a "Challenging PEL" thread rather than this one. |
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05 Dec 05 - 01:51 PM (#1620514) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols 2005 From: GUEST Well said. You are doing (and have done)some fantastic work on the whole PEL situation but are in danger of becoming a fearsome bore.. so give it a break old chap or at least be circumspect as to when and where is right to talk. |
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05 Dec 05 - 04:09 PM (#1620568) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols 2005 From: Folkiedave But he did and he has. But we have managed to get around that - thanks to the local authority acting sensibly. Cooperation. Often works as well as confrontation. At the eleventh hour - he has now presented the 'problem' to your local licensing authority No he hasn't and your suggestion that he did shows a fundamental misunderstanding which I have tried to correct before. Humphrey can do what he likes with his pubs. We might not like it, we may not even understand it and we have certainly tried very hard to get him to change his mind. I am amongst those who wrote to him and received no reply. But in his wisdom he has chosen to allow the carols to go ahead at this one. How that event then goes ahead is up to the licensing authority and they have chosen to allow it. It is their decision. They may have acted ultra vires but your assesment of the situation is based on what you have read on a website and what I have told you. It is what historians call secondary evidence. What on crime programmes they call hearsay. Can I make a suggestion? You clearly feel this issue is important. Come to Sheffield, come to the carols at this particular place. Make sure you have all the facts at your fingertips. Talk it over with the local people and with the landlord personally. and because of the publicity already generated - many eyes are carefully studying their actions. Who? Who is carefully studying their actions? I hope you have not gone around drawing this to people's attention. You were specifically asked to take no action and to avoid publicity at all costs to protect the landlord's livelihood and a community event. Here is what you said at the time...... Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols From: The Shambles - PM Date: 03 Dec 05 - 02:21 AM I am sorry and I respect the licensee's wishes in this matter but I do think that it perhaps a little late for such calls. If Yorkshire Folk Arts chooses to speculate and advertise well in advance on its website that a venue has problems you rather have to live with the inevitable public concern this causes and the other consequences of this action. Emphasis is mine.... I cannot speak on behalf of Yorkshire Folk Arts. I am reasonably certain that the local community who go to that pub to sing carols are happy to live with it. It is you who seem unhappy to live with the consequences. You are the one who wants to bring the attention of the local authority to the consequences. The public concern (as far as I am aware) seems to consist of you. You do not speak on my behalf and most certainly you do not speak on behalf of a community 280+ miles away from where you live. Come and speak to them, express your concern, listen to what they say, and then go ahead if you feel you must. The way I see things the local authority are damned if they allow it and damned if they prevent it. That may be the way you see it but I don't. The local authority are to be congratulated on allowing it to go ahead by all the people who enjoy the carols, from Canada (see posts above) across to the UK, and up to the level of the local pub. You are the only person I know who is damning it for going ahead. But they do seem rather more keen on not being seen as the ones who prevent it. Excellent decision on their part. Why should they risk the wrath of the local community when by a simple "manoeuvre" they can avoid it? Would that other local authorities follow their excellent example and that this one continues to make sensible decisions. Frankly I feel it is unlikely, and I am amazed they have done it, but I certainly am not going to stop them. And I don't want someone doing it from long distance either. That is a selfish attitude. I agree. But indulging yourself in legal issues like thhis is similarly selfish when you are doing it from distance. The people who are allowed to object to decisions of the licensing authority are: * A person living in the vicinity of the premises * A body representing persons who live in that vicinity * A person involved in a business in the vicinity of the premises * A body representing persons involved in these businesses Would you be kind enough to let me and the rest of this board which of those categories you fall into? I suspect it will be the first question the local authority will ask, so you may as well have your answer ready. I also agree with those who think we have gone far enough on this with this board. |
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05 Dec 05 - 04:11 PM (#1620572) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols 2005 From: The Shambles And what is wrong with a cockney knees-up? |
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05 Dec 05 - 05:59 PM (#1620691) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols 2005 From: Folkiedave Our relieved ears then prick up as the unmistakable sound of two cockney geezers is carried on the wind and we realise it can only be Chas & Dave making an early start so off we go to the main stage. You can almost smell the jellied eels and pie and mash wafting off the stage as the London boys run through pub classics London Girl, Margate, and Gercha with typical cheeky chirpiness. It is good to see that time hasn't weathered them at all since their heyday - they seem permanently stuck in their fifties - as they provide us with a good old cockney knees-up and the crowd do that elbow-flailing dance usually reserved only for Baggy Trousers. While it is all just a bit of a laugh, (Chas pointing to the two white 'Spurs style cockerels at the front of the stage and saying "Here are two birds for us later on!"), their musicianship, and vocal dexterity when it comes to singing the breakneck Rabbit, cannot be overlooked. With Snooker Loopy aired they end their set with The Sideboard Song and its typically up-yours lyrics of "I don't care if he comes 'round 'ere, got my beer on the sideboard 'ere". http://www.musicomh.com/gigs/bestival-3.htm I rest my case................ |
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06 Dec 05 - 02:12 AM (#1620943) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols 2005 From: The Shambles There is no accounting for taste. But it is perhaps not sensible to base licensing issues on matters of taste. Would you be kind enough to let me and the rest of this board which of those categories you fall into? I suspect it will be the first question the local authority will ask, so you may as well have your answer ready. The above are grounds for making an objection to an original licensing application. There are also requirements for who can appeal over a decision after it has been made. In the case of entertainment permission for this pub - no application has been made or appears (at the moment at least) to be required by the local authority. Although from the information supplied to me (via Dave) they have imposed conditions upon an event they do not appear to consider to be Regulated Entertainment. The reasons for their position is of legitimate interest to anyone who wishes to ask. And the fact is - should this position be thought questionably legal - open to anyone to mount a legal challenge to test it. The local authority's decision (so far at least) may be considered as an excellent one by you as it looks like it may enable this event to happen in the short term. - the rather more important judgement (and consideration for them) is if it a legal one. God help anyone from Canada or eleswhere who dares to make any contribution that is not thought to be totally supportive of some the local views. A view which tends to change and one that with all the heads popping in and then out of the sand is enough to confuse any watching ostrich...... |
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06 Dec 05 - 03:28 AM (#1620961) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols 2005 From: The Shambles There appears little for anyone to argue about. As I, Dave, Mr Smith, the licensee or the local licensing authority all agree that this event is NOT Regulated Entertainment and does not require entertainment permission. A result? Or at least the local licensing authority seem to think this for this year. I suspect that they will have changed their minds next year and insist that it is then Regulated Entertainment and expect Humphrey to pay for a variation for entertainment permission............ The information that I have received from Dave is that one of the (two) conditions now imposed by the licensing authority on an event that they do not appear to consider as Regulated Entertainment (and which as a result they cannot then impose any licensing conditions) - is they insist there is no advertising of the event. Now while I may respect the licensees wishes for no publicity which I have also received third-hand - I am not sure that I or anyone else should be expected to respect this kind of (possibly unlawful) imposition. What do you do Dave when a similar decision - that you may not think this time is such an excellent one - is made by your licensing authority on equally questionably legal grounds? It would be nice to be able cherry-pick the law like this - but probably not very fair or effective. |
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06 Dec 05 - 06:37 AM (#1621027) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols 2005 From: GUEST,MC Fat Just a point of information the Hillsborough Hotel which was threatened with an enforcement order under the old regime and a possible PEL of £1600 per annum has applied for a variation order to facilitate the Sunday sessions, the cost ? a mere £170. |
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06 Dec 05 - 07:23 AM (#1621040) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols 2005 From: The Shambles Perhaps the licensing authority do not wish places like the Hillsborough Hotel to find out that what they initially paid for and filled in all the forms for - has been given to the Travlleler's Rest for nowt? There was no doubt that in most areas application for entertainment permission alone was going to be cheaper than the old PEL. The fact remains that all pubs (especially those not providing any Regulated Entertainment) are now paying more money for their licensing. The question that also remains to be tested is whether particpatory music sessions really really qualify as Regulated Entertainment and actually require entertainment permission or can be prevented by a local authority for the lack of one? |
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06 Dec 05 - 12:05 PM (#1621262) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols 2005 From: Folkiedave Can we now shut up about please? Dave |
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06 Dec 05 - 07:21 PM (#1621560) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols 2005 From: GUEST Bestest thing you has ever said |
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07 Dec 05 - 04:29 AM (#1621753) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols 2005 From: GUEST Can I just add that the singing in The Royal on Sunday was absolutely wonderful. Peace to all. |
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07 Dec 05 - 04:53 AM (#1621772) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols 2005 From: The Shambles Apparently you can just add that - indeed you just did. |
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08 Dec 05 - 12:55 PM (#1622900) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols 2005 From: concertina ceol I hope to be at the Blue Ball on Sunday for my annual pilgrimage. I can't wait to be singing Jacob's Well. Oh and I've been learning some great new songs to sing which will just fit right in, Hopping down in Kent, My old mans a dustman, D-Day dodgers, Lambeth walk - fantastic stuff. The hidden christian imagery in those victorian songs can not be denied ;-) Good wishes to all and happy caroling! |
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08 Dec 05 - 06:40 PM (#1623197) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols 2005 From: Folkiedave Jacob's Well? I didn't even know he was poorly. Dave |
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09 Dec 05 - 10:10 AM (#1623534) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols 2005 From: The Shambles The hidden christian imagery in those victorian songs can not be denied ;-) As far as The Licensing Act 2003 is concerned (and that is the point) - is matters not if you are singing The Lambeth Walk, Ilkley Moor or singing the direct fart of God. If you are singing it in a pub - it is illegal without Premises Licence entertainment permission. Now if you were to sing these carols in a church - that would be different. But the reason why these carols are sung now in pubs and not church is rather back where we came in. In 2005 - perhaps it is about time that folk were openly allowed to sing what they want to - where they want to and not made feel they have any reason to skulk around and keep their heads down? |
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09 Dec 05 - 11:29 AM (#1623601) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols 2005 From: concertina ceol Well I totally agree with your last post there "The Shambles". The law is a total nonsense in this regard. We have had lots of shoddy ill thought through legislation passed by this government and even more hare brained scemes - tax credits anyone!? I'm fortunate - I live in the country. We get niether police or off duty council officers in the pubs we frequent. You just ask the landlord if it is ok to sing/play. Mostly they say yes and off you go :-) |
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12 Dec 05 - 11:23 AM (#1625663) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols 2005 From: Emma B What a lovely session in The Royal on Sunday: shared a room with some of the Shellbacks and a "duck" or two, all in fine voice, overlooking the sunlit countryside on a perfect winters day. Hail, smiling morn, smiling morn That tips the hills with gold.......... All the green fields that nature doth unfold All the green fields that nature doth unfold At whose bright presence,Darkness flies away......... |
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30 Dec 05 - 10:22 AM (#1637360) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols 2005 From: The Shambles David Blunkett who was acting as Today's guest editor chose the following article on 'the tradition of northern carol singing'. It can be heard on the Listen Again facility on the following link and is ref 0737 http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/listenagain/index.shtml Today asked expert Dr Ian Russell's for some help...... |
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30 Dec 05 - 10:31 AM (#1637369) Subject: RE: Sheffield Carols 2005 From: The Shambles A transcript of this article can be found on Law prevents carol singing |