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09 Dec 05 - 11:45 AM (#1623614) Subject: BS: Extracting the Log From: Jerry Rasmussen There's a lot to be upset about in the world today. And plenty of reason to speak out. It's something we all have a responsibility to do, and I try to do my part. But.. While I am observingly so brilliantly why everyone else is screwing up this world, it's important that I put a certain amount of energy into each day trying to extract the log from my eye. The mote in other's eyes is somehow much easier for me to see. When I get right down to it, the biggest log in my eye is selfish love. That almost sounds like an oxymoron, but it's a daily reality. Loving without selfish ulterior, motives is a challenge that I am often not up to. The thing is, as long as we all devote all of our spare time to observing the mote in other's eyes, this world will never get any better. You think it's hard to change the world? Try to change yourself. Still working on it.. Lumberjack Jerry |
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09 Dec 05 - 12:01 PM (#1623625) Subject: RE: BS: Extracting the Log From: John MacKenzie Well Jerry, who's to say you're barking up the wrong tree? We start off in our judgements from where we ourselves stand, and all such judgements are based on our own standards, which in their turn were probably largely derived from those of our parents. To stand on that mythical point in space, with our long lever of morality and try to move this world, is something we all want to do, but we are open to the interpretations of others as to our motives. It must always boil down to the aphorism 'To thine own self be true' as only in that way will you be happy with your own actions, and at the same time hopefully set the rest of this world a good example. Lots of things wrong in the world that I'd like to change, but who's going to listen to me. Doesn't stop me putting my tuppence worth in, and hoping I might just influence something or someone. Life is just a value judgement really. Giok |
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09 Dec 05 - 12:07 PM (#1623631) Subject: RE: BS: Extracting the Log From: George Papavgeris You're so right, Jerry. An old Greek saying goes "do the good deed and throw it in the sea", i.e. expecting no return. It's the love you "give away" that counts the most. And right away, in agreeing with you I am aware that I also unspokenly seek approval in return, as you happen to be someone whose opinion I value... Can't win... But I agree anyway. Selfishly yours George |
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09 Dec 05 - 12:07 PM (#1623632) Subject: RE: BS: Extracting the Log From: TheBigPinkLad You've already influenced me, Giok. I'll be getting in a litre of Lagavulin this Christmas instead of Glenfiddich. (What was I thinking?) Thanks, Pal. |
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09 Dec 05 - 12:21 PM (#1623642) Subject: RE: BS: Extracting the Log From: Allan C. If you get right down to the gritties, we are all subject to the "pain v.s. pleasure" syndrome. We try our best to avoid pain. We do other things because they bring us pleasure. Giving of ourselves, i.e., giving love, feels good. It feels especially good when that love comes back to us - in whatever form it may take. Therefore, I submit that there is no such thing as totally unselfish love. It feels good, therefore, we do (give) it. Don't waste a lot of time feeling guilty about it. This is the way thing are. It feels good to extend your friendship; your love. Just do it. |
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09 Dec 05 - 12:33 PM (#1623653) Subject: RE: BS: Extracting the Log From: open mike i thought you were getting the Yule log out of storage.. also a good idea.. |
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09 Dec 05 - 12:35 PM (#1623657) Subject: RE: BS: Extracting the Log From: Auggie Judging from your past posts Jerry, I doubt there is much of a log in your eye. It probably just looks big because you're viewing it from so close. On the off chance that I'm wrong, and that it really is a really big log, and that you succeed in getting it out, and that it turns out to be brazilian rosewood, please quarter-saw a few pieces for me (I'd saw it myself, but for some reason my vision often seems obscured too). |
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09 Dec 05 - 12:47 PM (#1623671) Subject: RE: BS: Extracting the Log From: Jerry Rasmussen Ah, Allan: You've hit on a long-standing disagreement I've had with a good friend of mine. She believes that there is no such things as an unselfish act, because any good deed gives you satisfaction, therefore making it ultimately done for selfish reasons. But to my mind, there is a fatal flaw in that argument. When you do something loving, that is the act. The "feeling good" can occur because you are doing the act, or as an "after-effect." Like all things, the reason why you are doing something is the ultimate measure. If you are doing something purely out of love, and that is your motivation, taking pleasure because you've made someone else happy is not selfish. It's the result of an unselfish act. If you do something seemingly loving because of what you expect in return (bringing flowers on a date, hoping to leverage that "loving" act into a hot night of sex has nothing to do with love. Many acts that appear to be loving are indeed done for selfish reason. I know that as a fact, because I've done it so much. (Not the flowers for sex barter, though..) And I am always in danger of doing it. It's not the act in itself that is loving or selfless. It's the reason for doing it. Jerry |
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09 Dec 05 - 12:50 PM (#1623672) Subject: RE: BS: Extracting the Log From: Jerry Rasmussen Sorry, auggie... I think my log is swamp maple that's been in the water too long.... couldn't even make a decent fire with it... Jerry |
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09 Dec 05 - 01:08 PM (#1623682) Subject: RE: BS: Extracting the Log From: John MacKenzie Aqueous Humor! G. |
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09 Dec 05 - 01:22 PM (#1623698) Subject: RE: BS: Extracting the Log From: Peace www.unlimitedloveinstitute.org/ news/pdf/doing_good_deeds.pdf The above site is worth a look, IMO. I don't know whether doing good deeds adds to longevity or not, but doing good deeds feel pretty OK. Once gave a teddy bear to a teenager at an accident scene. She clutched that thing like it was her grasp on reality, and maybe for that space of time it was. Her mom met me on the street weeks later and told me she'd named it after me. Truthfully, I couldn't recall what the people at the scene looked like, nor did I remember the mother. However, it made my day and helped remind me that small things, workaday things to us may be seen as something very important by others. Uh, Jerry, this thing about motes? Ain't they around castles? |
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09 Dec 05 - 01:36 PM (#1623721) Subject: RE: BS: Extracting the Log From: Jerry Rasmussen I wouldn't even attempt to remove a moat, Peace... lol Never met a teddy bear named Peace... not a bad idea We named our dog after our next door neighbor at our son';s request... and then had a lot of fun yelling at our dog when she made a mess, calling her our neighbor's name. Our neighbor got a big kick out of it.. Jerry |
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09 Dec 05 - 01:57 PM (#1623740) Subject: RE: BS: Extracting the Log From: Seamus Kennedy Whew! I thought this was another Catspaw thread. Seamus |
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09 Dec 05 - 02:39 PM (#1623779) Subject: RE: BS: Extracting the Log From: Allan C. Sort of a "chicken and egg" thing, no? If you consciously seek the good feeling for doing a thing, then it somehow negates the purported, loving motivation. But if you do a "loving" thing with no thought of the practically guaranteed, good feeling you are bound to get; you are allowed to accept that as a gratuity. I'm sorry, if you were to apply the same principles to, say, waiting tables, then it would be considered wrong to give good service if you already felt assured of a nice tip. Well, I'm not sure I've given the best example, but you can see what I'm driving at; I hope. Personally, I prefer to do loving things just because they need doing - or at least, that's the way I feel about them. |
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09 Dec 05 - 02:43 PM (#1623781) Subject: RE: BS: Extracting the Log From: Bill D " it turns out to be brazilian rosewood," old timber, of course. Wouldn't want to be caught with newly cut, protected species in one's eye. But in Jerry's case, I guess there be no problem...*grin* |
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09 Dec 05 - 03:57 PM (#1623838) Subject: RE: BS: Extracting the Log From: leftydee " and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make" Pretty sure this is the truth. Love is a balance, the more you truly open up and give; the more you're likely to get. If you don't believe it... give it a 30 day trial. Love to you all! Bob |
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09 Dec 05 - 04:08 PM (#1623844) Subject: RE: BS: Extracting the Log From: Jerry Rasmussen The other side of that equation, Bob is "garbage in, garbage out." :-) Jerry |
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09 Dec 05 - 04:20 PM (#1623851) Subject: RE: BS: Extracting the Log From: katlaughing Jerry, I think you are beating up on yourself, which is worse than what you are on about.:-) In fact, I think it's about the worse thing one can do to oneSELF. Love yourself and you can take care of others; love yourself and you can't help but give where and when needed without any expectations...just passing it on, which you already do a great deal of, I know! luvyakat |
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09 Dec 05 - 04:26 PM (#1623855) Subject: RE: BS: Extracting the Log From: Janie IMHO doing something for someone because we find that it is fulfilling and satisfying to us to do so is not selfishness. It is self-love. If I do something for some else mostly to please them in the hope they will love me for it, or do something for me in return, or so they approve of me, then that is selfish love. When I indulge some one because I can't tolerate seeing them unhappy, especially when I know that indulgence is perhaps not good for them, I am being selfish. I am assuaging (spelling?) my own guilt at possibly their expense. (Ex. giving into a child's tears when we have made a wise decision that they don't need another piece of cake.) Jerry, Steven Levine, in his hospice work, has said "The only work we have to do is on ourselves." I think he is talking about that same log. Janie |
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09 Dec 05 - 06:03 PM (#1623931) Subject: RE: BS: Extracting the Log From: Peace Jerry, If you ARE beating yourself up, we have to have a long talk. There are few people I have ever met who give love as freely as do you. I know that. If you can't see that about yourself then indeed you have a log in your eye. However, anyone who knows you will argue with you. You are one of the finer people I have ever met--I know you think we didn't meet and I think we did, so let's write that off to aluminium in the diet or something--and anyone who bad-talks my friends is gonna need a brief cuff upside the head. Capiche! (Notice please the exclamation mark.) |
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09 Dec 05 - 07:16 PM (#1623994) Subject: RE: BS: Extracting the Log From: Georgiansilver Who was it said..." This is MY commandment, that you Love one another as I have loved you"! If we do this then we cannot but help doing things for others and recognising our own LOG. I like this thread...thanks Jerry, you are a star! Best wishes, Mike. |
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09 Dec 05 - 07:23 PM (#1623996) Subject: RE: BS: Extracting the Log From: Peace Jerry, In a long-winded manner I was trying to say that you are a great guy. I really think you should join the majority and agree with us. |
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09 Dec 05 - 07:25 PM (#1623998) Subject: RE: BS: Extracting the Log From: Allan C. Some years ago, I had an opportunity to look at this from the other side, sorta. My parents, my brother and I were living overseas. We had just completed the building of what we thought was a rather marvelous Heathkit (remember them?) stereo (a somewhat new concept at the time,) amp, tuner, and record player. Only a few days later, Dad's boss came to the door with an armload of brand new stereo LP's he had picked up in the States while he was there attending some sort of conference. We were all taken aback by this wonderfully timely and most thoughtful gift. I saw my father fumble for the words with which to express his thanks. Before Dad could speak, his boss said, "Thank you for affording me an opportunity to do you a favor." Neither before nor since then have I ever heard a more wonderful way of letting someone know how great it is to be blessed with the chance to offer an expression of love. Did Dad's boss do it without having any idea how much it would be appreciated? Did he do it without suspecting that he might get a good feeling from having done it? Who cares? What does it really matter? It was an act of love, pure and simple. P.S. I think Janie is onto something. |
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09 Dec 05 - 07:33 PM (#1624003) Subject: RE: BS: Extracting the Log From: Jerry Rasmussen Thanks, Peace, Kat & Georgian: Naww.. I'm not beating myself at all.. or fishing for compliments. Don't even know what to use for bait.. I don't have Love For Sale anymore. I don't need to do things to be loved because I AM loved, and I love myself. God bless the child who's got his own. When you got your own, you can give out of surplus. Jerry |
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09 Dec 05 - 07:34 PM (#1624004) Subject: RE: BS: Extracting the Log From: Jerry Rasmussen Yeah, Allan... never try to figure out someone else's motives. None of us know what is in anyone else's heart. Jerry |