BS: Ageism on mudcat

06 Jun 06 - 10:13 AM (#1754105)
Subject: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: GUEST,Billy McKinley

I am 74 years of age. I retired in 1996 after a successful life running a family business,I was the third generationto do so. In 2004 I was Unfortunately diagnosed with the early stages of Alzheimers. Last year my grandson gave me a crash course on his computer. I got my own four weeks later ! I came onto this site after a friend who is a member told me about it in an email. Ageism seems to be making it's evil way into every part of our society, even here.

May I refer to the post below as an example. I only hope my friend when you reach my age that you do so in health and that some people make allowances for you in how you string together sentences.


Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Jun 06 - 07:21 AM


I will miss Billy
He said he had done National Service in the British Army so the youngest he could be is about 70.
He also said he had "attended Kings College Cambridge" even though he could barely string a sentence together. I wonder what his degree was in.

Keith.

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06 Jun 06 - 10:29 AM (#1754115)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: CarolC

Welcome to the Mudcat, Billy. Good luck with your Alzheimers.

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06 Jun 06 - 10:43 AM (#1754119)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: Ebbie

We know so little about Alzheimers- its cause, its progression, the ability to stave it off or lessen its severity...

I know a woman who was diagnosed as having early signs of it. I knew her in Juneau where she had come from Anchorage a few years before.

After her diagnosis, she wrapped up her affairs in Juneau and returned 'home' to Anchorage, where, she said, she had friends who cared.

She also was taking active steps to help her remember things, writing everything down she could think of and putting it all together. She backed up her material and deposited it with a couple of friends.

In the meantime, she said, she was going to enjoy life. She had always been active but now she had joined two clubs, including a games club, and she was planning some travel with a granddaughter.

Guest, BK, I think getting the computer was an excellent thing to do. The best of luck to you.

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06 Jun 06 - 10:49 AM (#1754122)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: Azizi

I join others in welcoming you to this site and sending you the best regarding your health.

Also, Billy, I'm wondering if you might be ascribing a different meaning to that post than what the poster intended. My read of that post is that it is a mild put down of another person not because of his age, but because of his inability to write a legible sentence.

I personally haven't found problems with ageism in the Mudcat community. I get the sense that many of the people who post here-including myself- are over 50 years. And we hope to get to 70+ years with our physical, mental, emotional health intact. So if we insult a person because of his or her age, we're insulting ourself, or who we will be-God willing-in the future.

My hope is that you give Mudcat a chance. You may find-like I have-that reading and writing posts on Mudcat becomes an enjoyable and interesting pastime!

Best wishes,

Azizi

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06 Jun 06 - 10:56 AM (#1754124)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: GUEST,DEsdemona

I second the welcome, Billy. I'm only 42 and have enough trouble remembering what I'm supposed to be doing; far be it from me to cast an eye on anyone!

Sadly, I must agree with you viz. the scourge of ageism in our society; I fear it is another symptom of an increasingly shallow, superficial and ignorant culture. Several years ago, my mother (then 75) was hospitalised for a double bypass; thankfully, she came through with flying colours and her health has improved. At the time, however, it was extremely stressful, especially for my 3 young sons, who are very attached to their Nana. I had a job which required me to supervise a number of college student internships, and one of these young men had an unpleasant habit of disparaging the elderly: "some old guy" had cut him off in traffic, "some old lady" held him up in a queue, etc.

Although I did my best to ignore him, one day I'd just had enough, turned around and told him that should he be fortunate enough to live to be one of these bothersome "old people", I sincerely hoped he would have acquired some wisdom, and thereby some interesting, worthwhile things to say, since at age 21 he was sorely lacking in either. He later apologised, having heard about my mother, and, while I accepted it, I took care to make the point that it was not simply my own family situation that made his remarks offensive to me, but the basic callous (to say nothing of callow), dismissive unkindness of his attitude.

Thereafter I never heard anymore of it from him, so at least he stopped doing it in my presence. In any event, my feeling is that, just as with racism, homophobia or any other prejudice, it behooves us to speak up and say that it is unacceptable.

Be well,
~D

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06 Jun 06 - 10:59 AM (#1754127)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: jacqui.c

Billy - you did call Keith a liar on that thread - not a very nice thing to do. It may be that you got his back up, leading to his later remark. I'm sure that he was not aware of your medical problem, just stating his opinion as you had done.

Starting a fresh thread to effectively chastise another Mudcatter realy isn't on, is it?

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06 Jun 06 - 11:04 AM (#1754133)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: GUEST,Mack

Billy:

I am not trying to be funny. Try doing crossword puzzles. They seem to have improved my short term memory loss which I attributed to early stages of Alzheimers. I can remember thing easier.

I retired in 1996 and I am 61.

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06 Jun 06 - 11:07 AM (#1754135)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: GUEST,Desdemona

It *is* true about the puzzles: my Dad (age 81, retired in 1997) does them all the time, as well as being a keen player of Scrabble and gin rummy, and he swears it helps to keep those mental muscles flexed. He & my mom both love Soduku, too, but it gives me a headache!

~D

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06 Jun 06 - 11:10 AM (#1754136)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: Paco Rabanne

Can anyone else smell fish?

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06 Jun 06 - 11:13 AM (#1754137)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: CarolC

Doesn't matter, ted (in my opinion), if a thread like this one can be of help to anyone who is concerned with Alzheimers. And it looks to me like it can.

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06 Jun 06 - 11:20 AM (#1754143)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: Azizi

I just noted that the post you shared said "I will miss Billy" and that your name is Billy.

I've not followed that thread so I don't know if Keith's post refers to you. Nor do I know which sentence in that Billy's post Keith considered to be poorly written.

But if Keith was referring to you, and you don't consider that sentence or the rest of your writing to be poorly written, than maybe you should 'play pass' it {an American street phrase meaning act like it isn't even there, or didn't happen}. I think that the philosophy behind this attitude is that in order to focus on a 'slight' or an insult-intended or unintended- you have to take power and energy from yourself that could be better spent or placed somewhere else. According to this philosphy, the time and energy that you expend on feeling angry and annoyed at a person who may or may not have meant to insult you, causes you to have less energy and time and positive emotion for other-more important-things. Not to mention it could distract you from being alert and aware in a hostile environment.

And by the way, Guest Billy, I'm not speaking about you personally or of your specific health diagnosis.

I end this post as I did my first post to this thread: I don't hink that Mudcat is a hostile environment. I would encourage you to give Mudcat a chance, and ask that you don't let one thing ruin what could be a pleasurable pass time for you.

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06 Jun 06 - 11:25 AM (#1754147)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: GUEST,Billy McKinley

Thank you all. Your support is most inspirational. May I say the [e-mail] is also a wonderful site.

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06 Jun 06 - 12:12 PM (#1754190)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: Amos

Billy:

The best advice I ever heard for CNS issues (aside from exercising on all fours) is this: learn something new. Getting the computer and learning to use it is an excellent example, but a new subject of any kind will impose new order on the neurons.

A

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06 Jun 06 - 01:32 PM (#1754248)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: GUEST,Billy McKinley

Thank you Amos my daughter insists I do crosswords. Thank you also Mack.
Used to play a little golf now too energetic for me.

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06 Jun 06 - 01:50 PM (#1754258)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: akenaton

Billy ..enjoyed your appraisal of the new Ken Loach film.

Stick around there are a lot of good folks here......and of course our resident "warriors".

Age is no bar to expressing succinct opinions....Let McGrath be your role model!!...Ake

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06 Jun 06 - 07:01 PM (#1754526)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: McGrath of Harlow

Succinct opinions? Some people might disagree on that, since I often tend to be a bit wordy. (Though maybe that was mean ironically!)

So far as ageism goes in the Mudcat I think if anything it tends to be the other way round, directed at those who are open to the accusation that they are maybe a bit too young to really know what they are talking about... Which may be unfair, but it makes a change.

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06 Jun 06 - 07:44 PM (#1754561)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: GUEST,Becca72 @ work

Just in reading the post above and not following the original thread, I interpret that sentence to be a shot at one's education level, not an attack about Alzheimer's. Did the offending party even know the condition existed? I have found in my short time here that most of the "regulars" are 50+ as Aziz pointed out.
Don't take anything personally, welcome, make sure your safety belt is securely fastened and enjoy the ride!

Becca

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06 Jun 06 - 07:51 PM (#1754565)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: GUEST

If you can do this much with a computer, your doctor's diagnosis was undoubtedly incorrect! Congratulations! You don't have Alzheimer's.

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06 Jun 06 - 07:52 PM (#1754567)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: The Fooles Troupe

"REMEMBER - this place is rooted "

NOT GOING THERE!

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06 Jun 06 - 08:08 PM (#1754575)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: dianavan

My mom is 82 now and she does the crossword every morning and plays cards a couple of times a week. The computer is also a good tool. Learning something new is a very good idea at any age.

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06 Jun 06 - 09:21 PM (#1754614)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: frogprince

Oh, man; not another decrepit old goat (like me) around here...
Welcome to the 'cat, Billy M.

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06 Jun 06 - 09:37 PM (#1754618)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: Rapparee

Well, I'm only 61, but welcome.

One suggestion, and this is for everyone: remember that computers can't do anything except show what is typed in. So facial expressions, etc. that might mitigate a statement in conversation or even show humorous intent can't work here. Emoticons take up a little of the slack, but not much. So unless it's an all out vicious attack, don't automatically assume you've been attacked. I call Amos all sorts of things, over on the MOAB, but I'm not serious about it and I think he knows it. At least, I hope he does....

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06 Jun 06 - 09:50 PM (#1754623)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: GUEST

MOAB?

Minstrels Of Arizona Bi-xual????

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06 Jun 06 - 09:52 PM (#1754624)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: GUEST

Menstrating Oxen Arabian Beef

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06 Jun 06 - 10:29 PM (#1754645)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: Joe Offer

It's really unfair to accuse most of us here at Mudcat of ageism.

Most of us here are really old, and we can't help it.

-Joe Offer, aging quickly-

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06 Jun 06 - 10:46 PM (#1754652)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: Bobert

Yo, Billy,

Talk about sentences, shoot, I can't half type 'er spell... I know that either I got some Alzheimers 'er I'm jus' a space case... Shoot, what's the diff???

Hey, I jus' get up every day and go out there and force myself to remember stuff... It;s like a daily exercise... Every day, I can't remember names of some folks but can remember otrhers so as I go thru the day and remmeber folks names, I write 'um down... I also do math evry day... I read the newspaper every day...

I won't gove in to Alzhiemers tho I suspect that I have a touch of it... I play my music every day... It all about getting up every mornin' and sayin' I will come out with more points on the vorad at the end of this day than Alzheimers....

I know in my heart that if I didn't fight it could win a few months 'er years...

So I fight like Hell, Billy, and you can as well... Find stufff the keep yer mind in the ballgame... Go over an inventory every day of yer friendsd and yer family and where you live and what is gfoingon in the world...

Yeah, it's a fight at times but do it... Do it every day... Fight with it and you can beat the crap out of it... Okay, maybe not beat the crap out of it but, at least, stay in the game....

You can do it!!!! I promise!!!! Just fight like Hell!!!

Bobert

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06 Jun 06 - 11:12 PM (#1754658)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: Bobert

Oh yeah, an' make piccures in yer mind of yer friends and family folks... That is a big help... Think of it as like yer mind tryin to atophy like a muscle an' so just exercise the heck out of it...

One thing is fir certain... You can relearn stuff that you unlearned if you will work ast it... I promise you can...

An' please feel free to PM me... I got lots of tricks (exercises)...

I mean it... Hey, if I can hold my own, you can too....

An'iove to piss off a few Bush supporters, as well...

(Oh, yer a Bush supporter??? We can talk about this, as well...)

Bobert

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07 Jun 06 - 01:43 AM (#1754679)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: The Fooles Troupe

"I jus' get up every day and go out there and force myself to remember stuff... "

I don't bother - I just make it up as I go along...
much easier Bobert!



"Hey, if I can hold my own, you can too"

Hey, _I'm_ NOT holdin' it mate!!!!!!

{:P

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07 Jun 06 - 02:08 AM (#1754699)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: Seamus Kennedy

Hiya Billy!
OK, so this old guy isn't feeling too well, and his wife brings him to the doctor, who examines him from head to foot.

"Right," says the doctor, "we're going to need a blood sample, a urine sample and a stool sample."

The old guy turns to his wife and asks, "What did he say?"

She replies, "Show him your underwear!"

Seamus (who is a card-carrying member of AARP)

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07 Jun 06 - 08:22 AM (#1754872)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: Mr Red

And how many times do people go upstairs (or to the photocopier) and spot an interesting problem and return only to realise they didn't do what they set out to?

OK it happened to me as a teenager - but not nearly as often.

The thing, Billy, about discussing the effects of aging is that others have been there before and solved the problems. We learn. And abrupt comments strike home faster - reply in kind if you want but don't get sucked into being goaded by a flamer - and I don't mean Clinton (reallllllllllllllllllly).

The only problem is remembering the solution. I make lists now. I speak to myself repetitively when going upstairs, and come down with a new song but not what I went for.

As Roy Bailey says when out with a date (these days) "Is this place yours or mine?"

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07 Jun 06 - 10:20 AM (#1754959)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: GUEST,Billy McKinley

I find it's the smallest things I get stuck with and then a bit of a panic sets it. If this sounds right, it's like trying to sound sober when you know your not ! Like the above jokes, excellent.

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07 Jun 06 - 05:49 PM (#1755243)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: Uncle_DaveO

GUEST Billy McKinley:

I have to disagree with you, in at least two ways.

First, you should know that I am almost 76 now, so that you know where I'm coming from.

The post you quoted, in my opinion, does NOT show ageism. It has two sentences. The first is a mere statement of fact and a reasonable, almost inevitable, conclusion. You can't disagree with it, or your whole premise of ageism disappears.

The second sentence could refer to ANYONE who made the claim of prestigious education but whose actual operation in the world seems to belie that education. Age isn't involved. There is not a suggestion in the second sentence that his language difficulties have anything to do with him age. It is you who appears to make that connection.

Dave Oesterreich

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07 Jun 06 - 05:52 PM (#1755247)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: Uncle_DaveO

Billy McKinley:

Since you attribute ageism to Mudcat, I will say that, as one of the senior members here, I have never received any criticism, insult, or whatever because of my age. Sometimes on some other basis (sometimes deserved) but not age.

Dave Oesterreich

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07 Jun 06 - 07:06 PM (#1755291)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: George Papavgeris

I agree with Dave O. When we call someone an "old fart", it's not the "old" that we're focusing on.

On a serious note, I lost a relative to Alzheimers a few years back. She was only in her early fifties when the disease first became apparent, and took a very long time to develop, most of which she was corpus mentis, if increasingly forgetful. And that was before the newer treatments available. You'll be all right, Billy, keep smiling.

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07 Jun 06 - 08:17 PM (#1755317)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: McGrath of Harlow

My thing is I'll go upstairs to do something, forget what it was I came up to do, and have to go down stairs again in order to retrieve my thoughts and come on back up to do whatever it was.

Mind I used to do the same thing when I was at school, which was a long time ago.

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07 Jun 06 - 08:51 PM (#1755344)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: The Fooles Troupe

Age Activated Attention Deficit Disorder.

Recently, I was diagnosed with :
A.A.A.D.D. - Age Activated Attention Deficit Disorder.

This is how it manifests:

I decide to water my garden. As I turn on the hose in the driveway, I look over at my car and decide it needs washing.

As I start toward the garage, I notice mail on the porch table that I brought up from the mail box earlier.
I decide to go through the mail before I wash the car.
I lay my car keys on the table, put the junk mail in the garbage can under the table, and notice that the can is full.
So, I decide to put the bills back on the table and take out the garbage first.

But then I think, since I'm going to be near the mailbox when I take out the garbage anyway, I may as well pay the bills first.
I take my check book off the table, and see that there is only 1 check left. My extra checks are in my desk in the study, so I go inside the house to my desk where I find the can of Coke I'd been drinking.
I'm going to look for my checks, but first I need to push the Coke aside so that I don't accidentally knock it over.   
The Coke is getting warm, and I decide to put it in the refrigerator to keep it cold.
As I head toward the kitchen with the Coke, a vase of flowers on the counter catches my eye --they need water.
I put the Coke on the counter and discover my reading glasses that I've been searching for all morning.
I decide I better put them back on my desk, but first I'm going to water the flowers.
I set the glasses back down on the counter, fill a container with water and suddenly spot the TV remote. Someone left it on the kitchen table.
I realize that tonight when we go to watch TV, I'll be looking for the remote, but I won't remember that it's on the kitchen table, so I decide to put it back in the den where it belongs, but first I'll water the flowers. I pour some water in the flowers, but quite a bit of it spills on the floor.
So, I set the remote back on the table, get some towels and wipe up the spill.
Then, I head down the hall trying to remember what I was planning to do.

At the end of the day:

-the car isn't washed
- the bills aren't paid
- there is a warm can of Coke sitting on the counter
- the flowers don't have enough water,
- there is still only 1 check in my check book,
- I can't find the remote,
- I can't find my glasses,
- and I don't remember what I did with the car keys.

Then, when I try to figure out why nothing got done today, I'm really
baffled because I know I was busy all day, and I'm really tired.

I realize this is a serious problem, and I'll try to get some help for it, but first I'll check my e-mail.

Do me a favor. Forward this message to everyone you know, because I don't remember who the hell I've sent it to!

Don't laugh -- if this isn't you yet, your day is coming!!


Sorry about the cut-and-paste, but the author knows whereof he writes. He's forgotten that he left the hose running in the first sentence!

I also can't remember where I found this in the first place...

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07 Jun 06 - 08:53 PM (#1755345)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: Richard Bridge

"Corpus mentis" - nice apt coinage in the situation.

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07 Jun 06 - 09:04 PM (#1755355)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: dick greenhaus

The Old Sailor
by A.A. Milne

There was once an old sailor my grandfather knew
Who had so many things which he wanted to do
That, whenever he thought it was time to begin,
He couldn't because of the state he was in.

He was shipwrecked, and lived on a island for weeks,
And he wanted a hat, and he wanted some breeks;
And he wanted some nets, or a line and some hooks
For the turtles and things which you read of in books.

And, thinking of this, he remembered a thing
Which he wanted (for water) and that was a spring;
And he thought that to talk to he'd look for, and keep
(If he found it) a goat, or some chickens and sheep.

Then, because of the weather, he wanted a hut
With a door (to come in by) which opened and shut
(With a jerk, which was useful if snakes were about),
And a very strong lock to keep savages out.

He began on the fish-hooks, and when he'd begun
He decided he couldn't because of the sun.
So he knew what he ought to begin with, and that
Was to find, or to make, a large sun-stopping hat.

He was making the hat with some leaves from a tree,
When he thought, "I'm as hot as a body can be,
And I've nothing to take for my terrible thirst;
So I'll look for a spring, and I'll look for it first."

Then he thought as he started, "Oh, dear and oh, dear!
I'll be lonely tomorrow with nobody here!"
So he made in his note-book a couple of notes:
"I must first find some chickens" and "No, I mean goats."

He had just seen a goat (which he knew by the shape)
When he thought, "But I must have boat for escape.
But a boat means a sail, which means needles and thread;
So I'd better sit down and make needles instead."

He began on a needle, but thought as he worked,
That, if this was an island where savages lurked,
Sitting safe in his hut he'd have nothing to fear,
Whereas now they might suddenly breathe in his ear!

So he thought of his hut ... and he thought of his boat,
And his hat and his breeks, and his chickens and goat,
And the hooks (for his food) and the spring (for his thirst) ...
But he never could think which he ought to do first.

And so in the end he did nothing at all,
But basked on the shingle wrapped up in a shawl.
And I think it was dreadful the way he behaved -
He did nothing but bask until he was saved!


Which, btw, sings well to almost any single jig: Lary O'Gaff, Father O'Flynn, Irish Washerwoman.

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07 Jun 06 - 11:55 PM (#1755504)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: GUEST,.gargoyle

Mr. Greenhouse:

Thank You! Delightful verse - one worth memorizing - and fighting back at dementia.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

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08 Jun 06 - 11:52 AM (#1755608)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: dick greenhaus

I forget who told me that, as one grows older, one gains a stronger belief in the Hereafter. .like, when I walk into a room aand ask myself, "What in Hell did I come here after..."

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08 Jun 06 - 02:43 PM (#1755699)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: Scoville

Foolstroupe--that's me, all right, and I'm 28 so I can't blame it on age.

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10 Jun 06 - 12:56 PM (#1756766)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: GUEST,.gargoyle

Ran accross this ditty....realted to seniors and workshops.

Forgetful Poem
        

My forgetter's getting better
But my rememberer is broke.
To you that may seem funny but,
To me, that is no joke.

For when I'm here I'm wondering
If I really should be there.
And, when I try to think it through,
I haven't got a prayer!

Oft times I walk into a room,
Say what am I here for?
I wrack my brain, but all in vain
A zero, is my score.

At times I put something away
Where it is safe, but, Gee!
The person it is safest from
Is, generally, me!

When shopping I may see someone,
Say Hiand have a chat,
Then, when the person walks away,
I ask myself, who's that?

Yes, my forgetter's getting better
While my rememberer is broke,
And it's driving me plumb crazy
And that isn't any joke.

Don't forget to laugh!

Author Unknown

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

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14 Jun 06 - 07:11 PM (#1760199)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: Keith A of Hertford

Billy,
When I made my post I had no way of knowing your condition.
Being honest, I did not believe that you were old enough for national service.
I had looked at your posts. Here is the first.


"See work has got underway at Colditz Castle in the town of Colditz near Leipzig to house the England supporters. We can all be assured they will never let us down when it comes to punch up's, wrecking businesses, breaking windows, insulting people in the street, breaking the odd jawbone of a passing 80 year old in the street. Ah all to look forward to. Oh not forgetting their National Front jibes and songs in the terraces. "

You should be proud. There is nothing in this or any of your posts to suggest Alzheimers.

I was angry when you said that you had found some of my posts that made me a liar. I am glad now that I only politely asked you to repeat them. I even offered to make the links for you if you could only give the thread name and the dates.
That offer still stands. Perhaps your grandson could help you.

Two people very close to me have been cursed by Alzheimers.
One still lingers.
I can not imagine how I could have persuaded either to start posting to an internet forum. Your grandson must be a remarkable person.

To anyone who may be thinking that this thread is just a cynical ploy to make me look bad I say SHAME. No one could be that low.

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16 Jun 06 - 02:10 AM (#1761156)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: Keith A of Hertford

I hope that I did not worry you with my last comment.
You may not have been here long enough to know that there are certain contributers who are always ready to think the worst of you, and to challenge you in the most hurtful way.
Such people may point to this post from Divis Sweeney, which actually was a cynical lie to make me look bad, and draw all the wrong concusions.

If there is anything I can do to help you sort out this stuff about me being a liar, please just ask.

Keith.

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16 Jun 06 - 09:59 AM (#1761367)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: Keith A of Hertford

Perhaps, with all your difficulties, you got me confused with someone else.
Perhaps it was not me who lied to you at all.
Maybe it was one of your old army comrades?
Perhaps one of those who gave you all those beatings?

Or maybe it was one of your chums from Cambridge University?

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16 Jun 06 - 10:44 AM (#1761413)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: GUEST

The above post from Keith A of Hertford has to be the most nauseating and demeaning I have ever read on Mudcat.

Keith A of Hertford you have crossed the threshold of human decency.

SHAME ON YOU.

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16 Jun 06 - 11:33 AM (#1761464)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: Keith A of Hertford

guest, I am sure you mean well, but you are not helping Billy.
He may not remember now why he called me a liar.
I was offering him a face saving way out.

I just wish I could have explained that to you by pm.

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16 Jun 06 - 03:03 PM (#1761643)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: GUEST

Does anyone believe the above post ! Words fail me. Ageism on mudcat alive and well.

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16 Jun 06 - 03:19 PM (#1761654)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: Jeri

I don't believe much of this.

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16 Jun 06 - 05:22 PM (#1761754)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: jacqui.c

I know Keith well and know that he would not deliberately offend - I've seen him go out of his way NOT to. I think that 'Guest' here, who obviously has not the sand to name themself, is just trying to start trouble.

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16 Jun 06 - 05:35 PM (#1761763)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: GUEST

What planet jacqui.c do you live on !
Keith A of Hertford has attacked more members than Martin Gibson !

Total bore.

Sorry jacqui, I have no sand.

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16 Jun 06 - 05:42 PM (#1761768)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: GUEST

I expect jacqui.c to be nice to Keith, considering the time they spent with him over the weekend.

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16 Jun 06 - 09:37 PM (#1761891)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: jacqui.c

Wrong again Guest. Get your facts straight or go away.

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17 Jun 06 - 05:34 AM (#1762069)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: Keith A of Hertford

Words fail you ?
Pity. I would like you to explain why you are angry.
Where you saw the ageism.
Remember I have offered Billy a face saving way out before he told us of his condition.
on May 28th I wrote,

"Billy,
You have called me a liar.
If you can not do links, give the name of the thread and date/time of my post, and I will do the links for you.
Perhaps you were just carried away with understandable emotion, and would like to take it back?
Keith. "

Also Guest, you wrong me.
I have sometimes, though rarely, replied in kind to an attack, but I have never attacked anyone. I may disagree with them but I do so politely and never personally.
I challenge you, who have studied my posts at least back to 2001, to find an single exception.

Keith.

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17 Jun 06 - 05:54 AM (#1762074)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: Keith A of Hertford

(no wonder you find me a total bore. You must have spent hours pouring over all that stuff!)

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17 Jun 06 - 10:06 AM (#1762168)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: GUEST

Ill tell you why I am angry. You make out you are so nice in your posts you bastard but you obviously dont believe us about the alzheimers.
All you are doing is taking the piss.

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18 Jun 06 - 06:41 AM (#1762686)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: Keith A of Hertford

I take it from that, that you could not find a single post to back up your allegation.
Withdraw?
Apologise?
I suspect that I will have to go on waiting, as with Billy and Divis Sweeney.
Do I believe in Billy?
To be honest, it is difficult.
Every case is different, but of the two cases in my family any attempt to teach computing and internet posting would have led only to frustration, anger and failure. I tend to agree with the person who posted,
"If you can do this much with a computer, your doctor's diagnosis was undoubtedly incorrect! Congratulations! You don't have Alzheimer's. "
I also looked at his previous posts, and duplicated his first, a rabid rant against England football supporters.
No trace of alzheimers. (Billy was wrong to suggest that poor grammar is an early symptom.)
In his first post here Billy did a neat cut and paste job on a post of mine.
But it was not just a cut and paste. He also editted out a phrase that showed him in a bad light.
I made that post at 7.21 on June 6th. I did not start with just,
"I will miss Billy.", I wrote "I will miss Billy, even though he called me a liar and could not substantiate it."
Not a bad achievement for an elderly Alzheimers patient who has only just learned to turn a computer on!

But IF it is all just a cynical lie, who would do such a thing?
Who would fein a crippling brain disease just to make me look bad?
Hardly likely to be a newcomer to mudcat.
It would have to be a long standing antagonist of mine.
But I can only think of one such.

A couple of weeks ago I pointed out that both Billy and Divis Sweeney mispelt "liar" as "lair"
In my 32 years of teaching I can not remember anyone making that mistake. Can anyone else?
Now this is not proof of co authorship. It is circumstantial at most, and last time I did apologise for even pointing it up.
However, in the light of this thread I feel that it is only fair to put it before people who may have been taken in by this disgusting lie, IF that is what it is.

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18 Jun 06 - 07:38 AM (#1762701)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: Divis Sweeney

Keith if you have anything to say, say it. I have neither time or interest to play games with you. All I see is half assed remarks by you saying I am posting under another name.

I stopped posting to last the thread you started because guest vistors strung you along and you foolishy answered them. Then in that half assed fashion that lacks backbone, you try to say it was me posting under guest !

Keith I have been in touch with you many times by pm over the last year and gave many explanations to things you requested.

Be assured Keith I don't have any back doors, If I have anything to say to you I will say it.

I have received a number of pm's from other members Keith regarding you. As to my own personal opinion of you, I have made a great error of judgement as I once considered you as a friend.

Go take a long hard look at yourself and try to get over any hang up you have concerning the Irish. Sadly it has been said by so many that you lost credibility on your last thread. In my opinion You were once a fine member of the mudcat forum.

People know me Keith, they admire my conviction to Republicanism and know I do not need to hide behind guest posts as a weak man does, yes Keith a weak man.

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18 Jun 06 - 08:25 AM (#1762713)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: GUEST,Big Mama

Enough, already!

:-)

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18 Jun 06 - 08:27 AM (#1762715)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: Keith A of Hertford

Your anger does you credit Sweeney, for if this thread is false it is a filthy business.
Why repeat again the empty accusation that I have an Irish hang up?
How many times must I refute it and challenge anyone to find an example of it in my posts?
I have posted many times to discussions but only to criticise the paramilitary men of violence from ALL sides.
You will find no exceptions.
You have chosen to make public our correspondence by pm, where we discussed matters in a way that transcended our differences in the threads. You know from them that only last year I welcomed a lovely Catholic Irish girl in to my family. She and my son were with me today after they were at Mass.
I hope that my suspicions are wrong, but there is no wrong in voicing suspicions, along with reasons for them.
Good luck now Seamus,
Keith.

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18 Jun 06 - 08:34 AM (#1762721)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: Jeri

Keith, I suspect you're right, or close, which is why I wrote what I wrote above.   There is no chance at all of making peace or reaching understanding with someone who's motive is manipulation.

I can believe in the Alzheimers, because that can affect a person's personality and ability to reason. Whether a 74-year old guy with Alzheimers who's new to the internet would even use the term 'ageism', spend his time here getting involved in fights, copy-paste quotations like an old hand and then make a broad but completely insubstantial accusation of the entire forum population when they get burnt, is ludicrous.

Also know that people aren't stupid and you don't have to keep trying to 'out' this person. Folks can read what Billy McKinly has written on other threads. People often figure out what's going on and walk away.

Whoever this person is, s/he is playing you like a pro. I'm not saying I think you should stop if you're enjoying the exchange. I'd guess you've picked up a bit of a bit of a 'special friend'.

Divis Sweeney, I've gotta hand it to you - you don't post for 5 days, then respond to Keith's post in a thread about 'ageism', less than an hour after Keith posts. That's efficiency!

So Keith, to recap, people can be pretty dense at times, but we usually can figure out whether something other than the obvious is going on. No, I don't/can't know if Billy is really someone else, but I'm sure there's duplicity and outright lying going on.

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18 Jun 06 - 08:52 AM (#1762724)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: catspaw49

Keith.....Just a piece of honest advice. Be done with this thread. Jeri made some excellent points. You have nothing to gain here. There is certainly duplicity going on and the entire thread began with a dubious post. Try and trust me on this (as well as Jeri) and know that leaving this thread brings you no loss..........To make it really blunt:

You're being had Dad...Don't bite!!!

Spaw

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18 Jun 06 - 11:19 AM (#1762813)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: Divis Sweeney

Jeri you said.
Divis Sweeney, I've gotta hand it to you - you don't post for 5 days, then respond to Keith's post in a thread about 'ageism', less than an hour after Keith posts. That's efficiency!

I got a pm from another asking me to visit the thread.

Have you got a problem here ?

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18 Jun 06 - 11:33 AM (#1762823)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: GUEST,Josephus XXVII

Don't explain yourself to these assholes Divis Sweeney. He has been sending the weepie pm's again ! "Two Old Cronies" of Misstra Know-It-All.

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20 Jun 06 - 05:12 AM (#1764426)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: GUEST

If Billy has altheimers there is hope for all of us, I like Flamenco Ted also smell a fish.

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20 Jun 06 - 08:43 AM (#1764534)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: John O'L

It's Eve.

You know, washing in the river. Damned fish'll always smell peculiar now.

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20 Jun 06 - 10:59 AM (#1764675)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: GUEST,Herbie

Guest is altheimers one of the runners at Ascot today ? I don't think Billy mentioned he owned a horse.

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21 Jun 06 - 10:57 AM (#1765550)
Subject: RE: BS: Ageism on mudcat
From: GUEST,Frug

Is Altheimers for people with a lithp..........or is that old hat ??

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