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14 Jun 06 - 02:41 AM (#1759501) Subject: BS: Canada's security certificates From: dianavan The recent terrorist bust seems to coincide with the security certificates heading for Supreme Court. (hmmmm....) http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/06/13/security-certificates.html This is a big issue in Canada. I think the upcoming decision will impact Canadian policy for years to come. I think its a slippery slope and we may be waving good-bye to many of the rights and freedoms to which we have become accustomed. If it can happen in the States, it can happen in Canada and it usually does, about ten years later. Too bad, so sad. I still have a little bit of hope that there is justice in Canada but I'm not holding my breath. |
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14 Jun 06 - 02:51 AM (#1759502) Subject: RE: BS: Canada's security certificates From: dianavan If we allow the continuance of security certificates, the U.S. and Canada will combine to become a totalitarian state. If Canada can resist, we may be able keep some kind of balance. If not, its all over. Kiss your human rights good-bye. |
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14 Jun 06 - 03:34 AM (#1759515) Subject: RE: BS: Canada's security certificates From: Paul Burke I wonder if the recent Mullah's Conspiracy To Do Mediaeval Things To The Prime Minister was something to do with this? There's nothing like a panic to get people to hide behind a big fat secret policeman. |
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14 Jun 06 - 12:58 PM (#1759927) Subject: RE: BS: Canada's security certificates From: GUEST,Rufus Iz everbody in Canada paranoyd? |
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14 Jun 06 - 01:09 PM (#1759934) Subject: RE: BS: Canada's security certificates From: Ebbie Yep. Just like all Guests are illiterate. |
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14 Jun 06 - 01:18 PM (#1759939) Subject: RE: BS: Canada's security certificates From: GUEST,Rufus I believes that. |
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14 Jun 06 - 01:48 PM (#1759966) Subject: RE: BS: Canada's security certificates From: Ebbie :) |
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14 Jun 06 - 01:50 PM (#1759969) Subject: RE: BS: Canada's security certificates From: Peace Security trumps rights, top court told Jun. 14, 2006. 11:49 AM CANADIAN PRESS OTTAWA — Protecting national security is the key to maintaining a free and democratic society, say federal lawyers defending their arsenal of legal tools for evicting terrorist suspects from Canada. Government counsel Bernard Laprade says security isn't just a nice thing to have — it's an absolute necessity if people are to enjoy all the liberties guaranteed by the Charter of Rights. The comments came as Laprade appeared before the Supreme Court of Canada to defend the much-criticized deportation process for foreign-born terrorist suspects. Some of the nine judges appeared reluctant to accept the claim that national security trumps everything else. Justice Louis LeBel, for example noted that if Canadians have security but no individual liberties, they may as well be living in North Korea. The court is reviewing the so-called security certificate system that provides for secret hearings and indefinite detention of non-citizens accused of having terrorist ties. |
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14 Jun 06 - 02:33 PM (#1760006) Subject: RE: BS: Canada's security certificates From: GUEST,3refs If an individual fears being returned to his country, the big question is why! What is it that the other counrty has on this person that makes him/her fear persecution if they are returned and why don't we want them anymore? How many times do we have to hear that a person in question was free on bail when they committed another crime. Or that they've been deported several times and keep sneaking back in. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, let's have a real close look. This is not like the witch hunts where all you had to do was point the finger. There is an investgation, evidence is gathered and decissions are made. The days of "better 10 guilty go free than one innocent be condemned" are over! Citizenship and Immigration Canada can remove a person considered to be a security threat by issuing a Security Certificate signed by the solicitor general and the minister of citizenship and immigration, and endorsed by a judge of the Federal Court(this is not just some cop making unjustified arrests). When a security certificate is issued: all other immigration proceedings are suspended until the Federal Court makes a final decision about the certificate(case is brought befor a court); foreign nationals who are the subject of a Security Certificate are automatically detained(or do we just give them bail and watch while they disappear). Permanent residents may be detained on a case-by-case basis(MAY BE!). If the Federal Court decides that the certificate is unreasonable, it is quashed(that's pretty simple). If the court decides that it is reasonable, the certificate becomes an order for removal of the person. The court's decision can't be appealed. Somebody, somewhere has to have a final say! |
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14 Jun 06 - 02:54 PM (#1760023) Subject: RE: BS: Canada's security certificates From: 3refs My understanding is the certificate does not apply to Canadian citizens. Justice LeBel refered to Canadians in his comments with regards to North Korea. Which doesn't make sence to me. We're not talking about Canadians, we're talking about non-Canadians. Sorry, but as a Canadian, I do feel that I have more rights than guests. We could just put them on a plane and send them home, but we don't. We give them an opportunity to prove themselves to be of good character and not have ties to terrorism or organized crime. This is the process we have here in Canada, and if you don't like it leave, or better yet, don't come! |
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14 Jun 06 - 03:04 PM (#1760032) Subject: RE: BS: Canada's security certificates From: GUEST Some people get too excited too fast. |
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14 Jun 06 - 11:06 PM (#1760369) Subject: RE: BS: Canada's security certificates From: dianavan From the Ottawa Sun - Detention without charge, cruel and unusual treatment, a lack of due process and the use of secret evidence are all human rights violations that foster a "two-tiered justice system" in Canada. The point is this: How can you defend yourself against secret evidence? |
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15 Jun 06 - 08:47 AM (#1760554) Subject: RE: BS: Canada's security certificates From: 3refs The government must have tools to prevent acts not yet committed, said Justice Ian Binnie. "The whole point is that it's intended to be preventative," said Binnie. "Does the state sit on its hands until something terrible happens, and then prosecute if anybody is alive ... to prosecute?" This all brings to mind another Supreme Court challenge. One inwhich Clifford Olson petitioned the courts to be released into the general population of the institution he was in. His reasoning was, being held in solitary confinement was cruel and unusual punishment and unconstitutional. The challenge to his petition came not from the government or from Corrections Canada, it came from the inmates themselves. With representation, obtained on their own, their argument in a nutshell was this; If you release him into the general population of this, or any other institution, you know he will be killed, and if you want him executed, do it yourself! |
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15 Jun 06 - 09:03 PM (#1761061) Subject: RE: BS: Canada's security certificates From: dianavan "The whole point is that it's intended to be preventative," said Binnie. "Does the state sit on its hands until something terrible happens, and then prosecute if anybody is alive ... to prosecute?" The whole point is that they have not been found guilty of anything. If you use Binnlie's reasoning, anybody can be detained because something terrible might happen. Thats going too far. It puts all power into the hands of those who act out of fear (whether or not it is valid). It also relies on information from secret sources. You don't have to wait until something terrible happens. You can charge them with conspiracy to commit... that is if you have any evidence that would stand up in court. |