BS: Kayak Questions

07 Aug 06 - 10:31 AM (#1803465)
Subject: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Raptor

Do you?

What type?

Which roof rack? Yakima or thule?

Raptor

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07 Aug 06 - 10:32 AM (#1803467)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Sorcha

A person could die kyaking!!! *BG*

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07 Aug 06 - 10:56 AM (#1803489)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: LilyFestre

I kayak!!!!!!

I have a Wilderness System Pungo 120, Mango. I do recreational kayaking for now and am working up to some small rapids. Thule for me, with a roller on the back for easier individual loading (my vehicle is really tall and I wanted to be able to take the kayak out of my own without needing assistance with loading all the time).

How about you? Do you kayak? If you do, what kind? Thule? Yamika?

Michelle

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07 Aug 06 - 11:07 AM (#1803499)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: number 6

Kayaking is a very, very popular sport here in Southern New Brunswick ... especially sea kayaking ... I myslelf don't partake.

Thule, do they make roof racks? I thought they just made those 'coffin' looking cargo boxes (that attach to roof racks) for skis and things.

sIx

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07 Aug 06 - 12:10 PM (#1803539)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: LilyFestre

Thule and Yamika are at the top of the roof rack marketers! They make every configuration you can think of!!!! Not only that, but they have a great resale market should your roof rack system need updating (for a different or additional boat).

Michelle

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07 Aug 06 - 12:12 PM (#1803542)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Ebbie

Here in Juneau, Alaska, many a vehicle all summer long is adorned atop with kayaks. There are many island destination, some not too far offshore, and some people just go out for the day. Some go out for several weeks.

At my back door right now are two kayaks (one a double) and one canoe. I suspect that many Alaskans, faced with the decision of having offstreet vehicle parking or room for storing their kayaks would opt for the water gear.

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07 Aug 06 - 12:21 PM (#1803550)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: LilyFestre

Ebbie,

   Do you get to go often? What kind of wildlife have you seen?

Michelle who would LOVE to live in Alaska

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07 Aug 06 - 12:34 PM (#1803556)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: GUEST,Janie

Thule rack.

We have a Pongo (shorter and beamier than a sea kayak but longer than a whitewater kayak), a 17' Chinook (single sea kayak), and a Frenzy sit-on-top surf kayak. All three of those are 'plastic' rotomold boats. We also have a double Folboat which is canvas on a wood frame that can be disassembled and bagged for air travel. We have had it for 20 years or more and I don't know if they are still made. We quite taking our's apart because it is a bear to assemble.

Janie

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07 Aug 06 - 12:47 PM (#1803569)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Amos

I have enjoyed the use until recently of a rotomold top-sitter surf version, which I just heist up on my existing Toyota roof rack and strap down.

I would take it out at sunrise on the still waters of La Jolla, when the sea-birds were still dozing in rafts floating together. I have met several dolphins this way, as well as long distance swimmers of the human variety. For reasons I don't understand the birds and dolphins always seemed more exciting.

A

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07 Aug 06 - 01:03 PM (#1803585)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: kendall

There was an Eskimo who got very cold and lit a fire in the bottom of his kyak. Of course, it burned through the bottom and it sank. This proves an old saying, can anyone provide it?
>
>
>
>
>
Of course I know the answer. Do you?

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07 Aug 06 - 01:14 PM (#1803599)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: LilyFestre

You can't have your kayak and heat it too!!!!!!!!

Michelle

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07 Aug 06 - 01:16 PM (#1803602)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: LilyFestre

There are quite a few companies that offer inflatable kayaks and ones that fold up for travel...I always wondered how well they worked. And have any of you ever attached a sail to your kayak?

Michelle

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07 Aug 06 - 04:40 PM (#1803799)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Rapparee

I dunno...sitting in a boat made of sealskin with a seal gut gasket around you to keep the water out...seems pretty chancy to me. And wearing a walrus-gut parka with those hats!!!

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07 Aug 06 - 04:41 PM (#1803801)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Amos

Most kayaks would blow to leeward in any kind of wind if they had a sail on them, unless they also had a centerboard rigged.


A

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07 Aug 06 - 06:26 PM (#1803911)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: LilyFestre

I'm not sure how they rig them but I've seen them in some of the kayaking magazines. I've also seen ones where you make a sail that you can use on your paddle (the ones that come apart). Sounds kind of like some fun to me...maybe next summer I'll have to get one!

Michelle

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07 Aug 06 - 06:34 PM (#1803922)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: EBarnacle

My sailing kayak has a choice of leg of mutton and lug sails. It also has a leeboard and a custom rudder with a side mounted bellcrank.

The choice of roof racks is strictly a matter of preference. I use Thule, Lady Hillary has Thule and Yakima. Both work. We have saddles in front and slide saddles in the rear.

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07 Aug 06 - 07:37 PM (#1803968)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Janie

We had a sail and mast for the folboat. Even with the sideboards there was absolutely no upwind sailing, and they interferred seriously with paddling. We also weren't very good at sailing to begin with and spent a lot of time capsizing every time we tried to turn about. (Remind me tell a story about an F250 axle deep in mangrove muck because of the inability of the kayak to tack under sail.) We jerryrigged an outrigger using 2x4's to which we tied buoys to function as pontoons. Still lousy sailing, but we found we could mount a 4 horse power motor to it when we needed to get way out into the Florida Bay back country really fast. We looked absolutely absurd.

We have had a lot of fun downwind sailing in the kayaks with kites.

Inflatables are fun in certain conditions, but tend to catch the wind and don't track very well. Klepper used to make foldables that had excellent reviews--we never had the money. If you are thinking about one be sure to read up on reviews in kayak magazines and websites.

Janie

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07 Aug 06 - 08:29 PM (#1803997)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: LilyFestre

Kites and kayaks, now that sounds like an interesting idea too!!! If I ever did make/buy a sail for my kayak, it would be strictly for fun. I see multiple capsizes in my future..........LOL!

Michelle

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07 Aug 06 - 09:13 PM (#1804027)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Rapparee

South Bend, Indiana (of all places!) has a world-class whitewater kayaking course. They found an old millrace that had been filled in and created the course out of it. The US Olympic team has trained there. Some info here and here. (They do regulate the flow so that it's not all Class VII!)

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07 Aug 06 - 09:26 PM (#1804036)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: EBarnacle

I went up to Lake Placid to pick up a couple of flat water kayaks from the USCKT...about 3 days after the trip they had a major earthquake in the neighborhood. Is correlation causation?

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08 Aug 06 - 11:40 AM (#1804438)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Nancy King

I have two kayaks, actually, and the thought makes me laugh, as I have virtually no skill and even less courage. Both of them are kept at my cottage on Sebago Lake, Maine. There are also two other small boats there (a very large, heavy canoe and an aluminum rowboat equipped with an ancient 4.5 hp outboard), but I almost never use them, because I'm usually there alone and I can't manage to get them out of their storage place and into the water by myself.

One of the kayaks is a small (10 feet, 40 pounds) Old Town kayak that I like very much. It's easy to paddle, and I can cover a surprising distance with minimal effort. I never go out when the water is rough (that lack of skill thing...), but when it's calm I really enjoy getting out on the water and exploring the shoreline. When I bought it, the marina folks tied it onto the top of my station wagon, but I've not had occasion to take it anywhere else and don't anticipate doing so. If I had to transport it overland, I'd probably put it inside the station wagon.

The other one is a Klepper folding kayak that a family friend gave to my father 30 years ago or more. It's really an ingenious design (love that German engineering) with a wooden frame and rubberized canvas "skin," and rubber air chambers around the waterline to provide floatation. The advantage, of course, is that when disassembled and stuffed into its bags it can be stored in a relatively small space and transported easily. The advertising says the whole thing can be carried "easily" by one man. My Ex tried it once and said, "yeah, for about 10 feet..." With practice, it takes about 20-30 minutes to assemble, depending on whether you're rigging it for sailing. Yes, I do have the sail rig -- aluminum masts, nylon sails, a rudder which is controlled by foot pedals, and wooden leeboards. My Ex and I used it mostly for sailing, and it was really fun, though surely not the world's best sailboat. On the other hand, the world's best sailboat can't be stored in an apartment closet. I haven't had occasion to use the Klepper for a couple of years (a friend and I capsized it last time out...), but I'll probably hang on to it for a while yet. You can find out more about these remarkable craft here and here. Come visit me at my cottage and we'll take it out for a spin!

Nancy

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08 Aug 06 - 12:30 PM (#1804493)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: EBarnacle

Being avoirdupois advantaged, I have never yet upset DAMFINO [the sailing kayak]. Part of the advantage of sailing a Klepper or other kayak is that you are aware of the boat's instability and make damn sure that you are on the side opposite the breeze. There is gear available from both Thule and Yakima to help lift the boat onto or off the rack. I recently saw a davit that can be incorporated into either system.

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08 Aug 06 - 09:39 PM (#1804940)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: LilyFestre

Thule has a lift that will actually pick the kayak up and onto the roof of your vehicle, presto lifto, you're ready to go!

Michelle

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08 Aug 06 - 10:28 PM (#1804963)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Janie

I would guess that the kayak is the most versatile boat ever designed. Thank you tribes of the Far North!

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08 Aug 06 - 11:14 PM (#1804986)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: LilyFestre

I was out this weekend with a friend who was trying out her brand new kayak for the first time. We weren't in the water for more than 20 minutes when a little fish jumped out of the water and over her paddle...we thought it was hilarious as our husbands were fishing and not catching a thing!

Here's a link to a video (that hopefully works!) where an Orca lands on top of a kayaker...check it out....absolutely amazing (humming Weebles Wobble But They Don't Fall Down). Unbelieveable!

Orca vs/ Kayaker

Michelle

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09 Aug 06 - 01:23 AM (#1805015)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: GUEST,KT

Yakima, here! works just fine.

Michele, one can see lots of wild life while kayaking here....whales, (humpbacks, orcas), sea lions, otters, porpoises, bears, eagles, and a variety of water fowl.

Kendall, c'mon, you're kidding!!!!!! (Ahem.....)   Although I DO know someone who set fire to a canoe......but that story will have to wait for another Old Songs.....

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09 Aug 06 - 05:52 AM (#1805114)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: GUEST,KingBrilliant

Best flatwater racing kayak carriers in the UK are made by Roland Lawler of Elmbridge Canoe Club (also available from Marsport retail outlet).
His new ones feature removable "V"s so that you can have the long bar permanently attached to your roof-bars, and just slot in the "V" (in which the boat rests) at each end when required. Brilliant! And essential if you have a low-ish garage door.

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09 Aug 06 - 08:55 AM (#1805170)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Rapparee

Lots of kayaks out here in Idaho. People kayak the Snake River, which varies from dead flat to the "interesting" water in Hell's Canyon (don't!) and the Salmon River (again, flat to "interesting" to "Oh, My GOD!!! AAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!"). There are also some nice reservoirs, like the one at American Falls, and lakes, like Pend d'Oreille and Coeur d'Alene.

Well, yeah, KT, I guess so!!

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22 Aug 06 - 07:53 PM (#1816554)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: LilyFestre

Hi Everybody,

    For those of you who kayak, do you take any photos while you are on the water? I've been using a Kodak Waterproof Disposable camera but the results are not what I was hoping for (even though I KNOW it's a cheap camera...the quality is far worse than what I thought it would be). Recently I've been packing my Canon AE-1 in a dry bag and using that. Since opening and taking out the camera and closing the dry sack takes time and is somewhat noisy, often the wildlife photos I am after are long gone or my boat as drifted, etc. So..I've taken to hanging the camera around my neck with the zoom tucked down in my life jacket. What kinds of cameras have you used? How do you go about keeping your camera safe and dry? I'm still a beginner kayaker and I don't care how many drip rings I have, some water in the yak is inevitable!!!! I'd appreciate any and all of your ideas!

Thanks!

Michelle

PS. The Olympus Stylus is on my wishlist....it's waterproof but not within my budget at the moment so I'm trying to make do! :)

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22 Aug 06 - 09:04 PM (#1816587)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: snarky

Look at "January on the Wacissa"

These were done with a Nikon Coolpix 885. Not fancy but easy to carry...

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22 Aug 06 - 09:27 PM (#1816603)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: snarky

that's excellent advice dave...

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22 Aug 06 - 10:06 PM (#1816622)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: GUEST,LynnT

I am out on the water at least half a day most weekends with my six-foot-six sweetie Richard either in kayaks or these days in an 18-foot red Royalex Mad River canoe we picked up from Craigslist. I stand five feet tall if you stretch a point, and it's easier to keep up with him on the water than on the hiking trail -- especially when we're in the same boat. And there are so many wonderful places to kayak around the DC area, from local rivers to the Chesapeake.

One of our first dates was a flat-water kayaking trip to Gunpowder Creek, not far from Ramblewood, the (old) site of the FSGW Getaway. This was my first time ever in a kayak. He sped along in the elegant wooden Chesapeake Light Craft Greenlander he'd built several years before (it's painted mud-green/brown for swamp camoflage) while I struggled to keep up in his spare boat, a plastic Zydeco Dagger, a fat little thing intended for river work. It was like riding a Shetland pony and trying to keep up with a racehorse. I capsized it, too, when I got cocky and tried to push my paddle way down to see how deep the water was. Of course the corks in either end weren't properly secured, so the Zydeco immediately filled up with water. But both air and water were warm, and I guess it was a good sign to Richard that I laughed it off -- it was a good sign to me that he didn't get mad at me, either, especially since he lost a pair of neoprene gloves in the capsize.

We've now been living together for about two years, and I have my own kayak, a mango-colored rotomolded Current Breeze -- "Pumpkin" is sort of a quarter horse, to carry the equine analogy -- intended for fishing and birdwatchers, she can go fast for short distances, but is more stable and forgiving than Richard's temperamental Greenlander. She does "weathercock" pretty badly in any sort of wind, though. We've done the three-hour paddle from Annapolis to Kent Island (along the path of the Bay Bridge) a couple times, and even did an afternoon trip from the MD side of the Potomac over to Dogue Creek (near Mt Vernon) one fall afternoon to fish for snakeheads -- didn't catch any, but it was a lovely paddle. One goal is to put in at the upper navigable end of the Patuxent River, and take the requisite two days to paddle all the way down to its end at the Chesapeake near Solomon Islands. Maybe next year?

We've rigged a small sail to the canoe/kayaks, but it's more fun to fly a parafoil -- like a kite but it can really pull us along.

Lynn

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22 Aug 06 - 10:20 PM (#1816627)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: LilyFestre

Snarky....nice photos! How many pixels is that? Price range?

Thanks!

Michelle

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23 Aug 06 - 12:04 AM (#1816708)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Joe Offer

We live across the freeway from the North Fork of the American River, but I'm afraid to try it. We use our canoe and kayaks in lakes and slow rivers.

We bought two Old Town Otter (not Offer) kayaks. The first time I tried one, my back was bad for three months; so I haven't used it since. I think the problem is that there are no foot rests, so all the strain of paddling goes to my lower back. Are there foot rests I can add to molded plastic kayaks?

We bought the Subaru kayak rack, and I don't remember if it's made by Thule or Yakima. It's a U-shaped bracket that bolts onto the cartop carrier, and then you strap the kayak to the outside of the "U" - unless it falls off before you get the straps in place. I don't see the rack available any more, so maybe other people agreed that the rack is hopeless.

I taught canoeing at a summer camp during college, so it's my canoe I love.

-Joe-

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23 Aug 06 - 02:39 AM (#1816758)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: dianavan

To each his own.

I will take a canoe if nothing else is available but I prefer the stability of a kayak. I can't give advice to which is best because I've never owned one. I just borrow from friends on the island when I visit. I kayak in the Straight of Georgia and the waves and the chop can be very challenging (not to mention the wind) but I've never been afraid in a kayak. The canoe, however, is much more difficult to manuever than the kayak.

Lilyfestre - Great video!

Its a good idea to drum on the bottom of your boat if Orcas are in the area. They won't hurt you if they know you are there. In fact, they will try to avoid you.

first rule for kayakers - Learn how to flip yourself back into it if it should capsize. I've never had to do this but at least I know I can do it if I have to. Once you know how to do that, you can go anywhere.

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23 Aug 06 - 07:34 AM (#1816877)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: LilyFestre

Joe,

   I believe you should be able to have foot pedals added. I'm sorry to hear that yours hurts your back...were you able to try your kayak out before you bought it? Also, they definately make adjustable seats should you wish to have your seat changed! A friend of mine just bought herself an Old Town Diringo (sp?) but she hadn't tried out the boat before she bought it...she had tried mine and a Perception Swifty...she loved the Pungo and hated the Swifty so why she didn't try out the Old Town is beyond me as the shop not only has space there to try out the boat but you can take one home and try it too. I think she liked this particular boat because it has a built in space for your fishing rod (although these can be added to any boat). Luckily for her, she loves her boat. It came with pedals and an adjustable seat and I'm happy for her that she likes it as much as she does...we were worried!
   About the J hooks, I see them all over the place, especially where a vehicle has 2 yaks on top. I may have to get one myself next spring as my husband is now wanting a kayak!
    I once took an outdoor class while I was in college. We had to do things like horseback riding, setting up tents while blindfolded, orienteering and our final was a 3 day canoe trip down the Brown River in Rhode Island. I had never been in a canoe before. I liked it well enough but I do think they are far less stable than the kayak. I also like the kayak better for it's ability to poke around the edges of the water where all the wildlife can be found. The canoe does have more room for gear and (unless you have a tandem kayak) room for a friend. :) Both are fun and the important thing, no matter if you have a kayak or a canoe, is that you are out enjoying the world. :)

Michelle

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23 Aug 06 - 11:50 AM (#1817066)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Janie

Joe,

Do you have an REI store near you? There are two stores in our area, and we find their staff to be very expert and very helpful with questions such as "can I modify this boat" regardless of whether we purchased it there or not.

I think some rotomold boats are more easily retro-fitted than others.

Janie

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23 Aug 06 - 11:54 AM (#1817074)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Janie

You might also try playing with the seat adjustment.

Janie

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23 Aug 06 - 03:49 PM (#1817275)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Bill D

at the Getaway, in the group of non-singers in the back, we often have Carter Hearn, whose kids have been high in serious international kayak competition...including Olympic teams. Carter once gave demos...including Eskimo rolls...at a Getaway. He and his wife, Ursy Potter, go all over the world to try 'interesting' rapids.

I wish I had known them when I was young enough to get started....canoes is my limit.

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23 Aug 06 - 06:20 PM (#1817378)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: LilyFestre

Hi Bill,

   I found that on Google, there is a new icon on the toolbar for videos. If you type in kayak, you will see all kinds of crazy kayaking...waterfalls and rock gardens. Some of the rock gardens look like fun but I haven't lost that much of my mind to try it yet! I'm working on the riffles!!!! :) There's one video on there called the Kayakers Casualty Club...I think that says it all...bunch of crazy folks!!!! :)

Michelle

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23 Aug 06 - 06:26 PM (#1817386)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: GUEST,LynnT

Bill, you and Rita -- and Dariol (sp?) too - are of course welcome to join us on the water any weekend you like -- the current Squirrelheim flotilla (3 kayaks and the "Big Red Bus" canoe) can put six human "bottoms" out on the water at a time. Do you prefer straight paddling or would you like to come fishing? (there's a song in that somewhere...) We haven't tried Lake Needham up the road from you yet; our faves are Gunpowder Creek, Sandy Point (closed now for pollution), the Pax River near Bowie or if we must Jug Bay. There was a good Wash Post article yesterday on paddling the North Branch of the Potomac, but I think I'll wait til the resulting crowds die down before heading up there.

Both the Zydeco and the Breeze have footrests along the sides; the Breeze's are adjustable. They keep the leg fairly well bent, knees pressed against the inside of the boat, and I understand the paddler is to push into the foot on the opposite side to the one the paddle is dipping on for stability/to engage the core muscles into the stroke. So maybe your yak has pedals/footrests, but smaller and in a different location than you expect? I had to add chunks of 2 X 4 to the face of my footrests before I could reach them properly, but most folks have longer legs than I do. Also, some yaks I tried had true pedals that adjusted a skeg or rudder via foot pressure; I didn't like those as well...

LynnT

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24 Aug 06 - 11:11 AM (#1817894)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Willie-O

I have a Clearwater St Lawrence (15' 6"), roto-molded, pretty inexpensive (made in Prince Edward County Ontario) which replaced my old Folbot kit boat a couple of years ago. This year I also picked up a used R=5 for my 16-year-old son who enjoys going on day paddles with me. (A great way to pry him off the computer). We just got back from New Brunswick where we enjoyed Passamaquoddy Bay, St Martin's (really neat red cliffs full of caves), and Minas Basin (on the Nova Scotia side of Fundy).

Closer to home we go out on some of the larger lakes in our area, but if I have time I drive down to Kingston to get some of those Lake Ontario swells under my skeg.

That Orcas video was remarkable...could it have been faked? What seemed odd to me was, OK the whale surfaced, breached, and whacked the bow? of the kayak...then the kayak disappeared completely for several seconds--seemed down a long time, then he emerges and calmly rolls upright. That paddler has a well-fitted spray skirt and a bombproof roll. What was he doing down there--chatting with Willy?

As for roof racks, I don't have deep pockets for those Thules. There is another maker called Frontier, sold at Canadian Tire, and their Sportrack is half the price of Thule and works fine. The crossbars are identical in dimensions to the Thule ones, so I think you could use their accessories on a Thule or vice versa. The J-style Thule kayak holders look real handy but, again, pricey, and a set for each boat. I've priced out the self-loading gizmos Michelle mentions and while I can see (and feel) the attraction, talk about sticker shock! When you start with a $600 boat (factory second), spending more than that on roof hardware isn't likely to happen.

It's interesting that you see so many more kayaks on cars than on the water...guess that's what makes classy roof-rack setups important.   

Hey Joe, my St Lawrence has not only footrests (standard equipment on most kayaks) but also an inflatable back rest (pumped up with a hand-held squeezebulb. You should ask for one of those!

Get out on the water by any means available!

W-O

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24 Aug 06 - 02:47 PM (#1818068)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: LilyFestre

Yeah, those self loading gizmos are RIDICULOUS in price and I don't think I could ever justify one for myself BUT I do have a 60 year old female friend who wouldn't be able to kayak if she had to top load it herself...and for HER, I think such a cost would be justified. I was shocked at the price of roof racks too but I know the Thule has a great resale value should I ever change vehicles. It is also very adaptable to other units and configurations, plus it goes on easy and comes off easy for winter storage. If my vehicle was closer the ground, I'd be off with foam blocks...they always worked for the canoe so why not a kayak?

As far as kayaks on cars...I suppose if I drove by the water all the time, I'd see far more kayaks but sadly, I don't get to be near the water every day. :( I imagine it's that way for many folks!

Sounds like you had a great trip! Did you see any interesting wildlife?

Michelle

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24 Aug 06 - 03:27 PM (#1818096)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: EBarnacle

Kayaks are not really more stable than canoes. They are, however, more recoverable. A closed hull takes on less water than an open one. In a kayak, you are pretty much stuck with the position of the seat. In a canoe, you can change your position for comfort or to meet changes in conditions. Canoes are also more flexible, in that you can load several people or one or carry significant cargo INSIDE the boat. I have rolled many kayaks but never yet turtled or filled a canoe.

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24 Aug 06 - 05:50 PM (#1818175)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: LilyFestre

EB,

   I'd say that depends entirel on the type of kayak. I can rock my kayak for all it's worth and would be hard pressed to tip it. My canoe is an entirely different story. Loading up with gear, you can defineately get more gear in the canoe...but for day trips, give me a kayak!!!

Michelle who finds it funny that even in the boating magazines there is a very distinct line drawn between kayakers and canoers...both loyal to their boat of choice. I say, who cares? Get out and have fun!!! :)

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24 Aug 06 - 06:15 PM (#1818192)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Janie

Do I remember correctly that in some places (maybe the Pacific coast of Canada) they use the term canoe for what the rest of us call a kayak?

Regarding 'canoe' canoes, I think canoes require a greater level of skill to handle, but if you have that skill they are pretty stable (in flat water anyway.) I also think that people who love canoes are 'boat' lovers as well as outdoors people. Those of us content with the kayaks tend to have a more purely utilitarian regard for boats.

Have any of you ever read John McPhee's Survival of the Bark Canoe?

Janie

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24 Aug 06 - 06:24 PM (#1818198)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: LilyFestre

Here's a question for you kayakers out there....

   If you were going on a full day trip on mostly flat water, what are the four things you would take (assuming you have a bilge pump, life jacket, sunscreen and all safety necessities)?

For me:

1. Partially frozen bottled water

2. Polarized sunglasses

3. Camera

4. Binoculars

How about you?

Michelle

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24 Aug 06 - 06:32 PM (#1818201)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Janie

I would include the water as a safety item, as well as some food.

Hat

waterproof/resistant longsleeved jacket

binoculars

river sandals or similar footgear

(insect repellant)

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24 Aug 06 - 06:41 PM (#1818207)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: LilyFestre

Ok, if water is a safety item then I get to add one more to my list, right? I'm taking a hat! Hmmm...I think water shoes are a safety item and the insect repellent too...what else would you take? LOL...I can see this is going to be a challenge....*GRIN*

Michelle

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24 Aug 06 - 07:12 PM (#1818233)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: MaineDog

I kayak from my back yard. The (real) maindog, Dex, always comes along, either following of leading. If I get tired I can grab ahold of his stern painter, and use my paddle to steer us. He has unlimited power.
Things are different in Maine :)
MD

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24 Aug 06 - 07:41 PM (#1818260)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: LilyFestre

Hey MaineDog,

   Where in Maine are you? My husband is from Northern Maine...it's some of the most beautiful country I've ever seen! And ummm, you can kayak from your backyard? Ok, I'm jealous!

Michelle

PS. What kind of dog is Dex?

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24 Aug 06 - 10:32 PM (#1818358)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Lady Hillary

EBarnacle here. My kayak is very stable also. However, most kayaks are dependent upon the paddler's posture to stay upright. I have seen really skilled paddlers do handstands in K-1's. I can barely keep them upright. Most ocean kayaks are skinnier and have less initial stability in stable 2 [that means upright] than in stable 1 [flipped over]. The parameters of stability can be very narrow. This is also why so many skilled kayakers wear wet or dry suits when on [hopefully not in] the water.

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24 Aug 06 - 11:45 PM (#1818390)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Janie

Yer right, EBarnacle. I tend to forget about those narrow Greenland kayaks, for instance. All of our kayaks have been much beamier than the typical ocean kayak.

While I have done a whole lot of kayaking in my life, it has nearly all been either in protected waters--i.e. Florida Bay, the sounds and estuaries along the NC coast, lakes, or rivers that are more flatwater than not. Most of the time, in those types of water, a kayak requires less skill than a canoe to keep from swamping or capsizing.   And when we have been caught in nor'easters that blew up unexpectedly, we would most likely have drowned if we had been in canoes, regardless of skill. But serious whitewater, off-shore, or coasts such as the Pacific Northwest definitely require a significant level of skill, not to mention a different boat than any of the kayaks we have owned.

Janie

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25 Aug 06 - 04:01 AM (#1818475)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Joe Offer

I've always found canoes to be very stable. I've been a canoeist since I was about eleven, and have never swamped a canoe unintentionally. When I taught canoeing during vacations from college, I'd roll my canoe when the weather was hot, and have the campers rescue me.
We went canoeing two weeks ago, and our freinds swamped their canoe the moment they left the shore. I'm not sure how they did that - I've always had to put my feet on the gunwale on one side, and my hands on the opposite gunwale, and then roll the canoe.
Janie - I bought the kayaks at REI - they said I have to contact Old Town directly to get footrests. I admit they were inexpensive, but I thought they'd be OK because I've had such good luck with Old Town canoes. My first Old Town was an antique, made of wood and canvas - actually, it belonged to the camp. It weighed a ton, but it was a lovely canoe when it was in the water.
-Joe-

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25 Aug 06 - 07:01 AM (#1818546)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Grab

General opinion on YouTube is that the vid was faked, sadly.

I can't believe no-one's mentioned the John Cleese line yet. "American beer is like sex in a canoe - fucking close to water..."

(Not true for good American beers, I hasten to say, but I'd rather drink water than Bud/Miller.)

Graham.

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25 Aug 06 - 07:44 AM (#1818578)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: LilyFestre

Yep, the consensus on my kayak board is that the video was altered too...pretty darn good job I'd say...especially the voices in the background...cracked me up!

Michelle :)

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25 Aug 06 - 10:03 PM (#1819125)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Lady Hillary

I know that Jersey Paddler carries foot pegs and does e-mail. Seats can also be changed if necessary. Try the foot pegs first, tho.
You are showing the best reason to try before you buy.
EBarnacle

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26 Aug 06 - 11:47 AM (#1819436)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Willie-O

Old Towne kayaks have made a big change in the market--here in Canada, and no doubt in the states. They are competing directly with Clearwater here in the low-end of real boats--i.e. not just cottage toys. Hell, they're even appearing at Canadian Tire.

They seem solid and have that brand-name thing, but I wouldn't confuse them with Old Town's venerable reputation for canoes.

Myself, in twenty-odd years of kayaking I have never, ever dumped one unintentionally. That includes Lakes Ontario and Huron, Gulf of St Lawrence, Northumberland Strait, etc. Put it down to the low centre of gravity. I have not been as lucky with canoes but would argue that both types of craft are intrinsically stable when properly loaded (and paddled in appropriate waters).

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26 Aug 06 - 01:13 PM (#1819478)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Lonesome EJ

Used to whitewater kayak quite a bit. When I did, I used a chair cushion and four ropes to hold it on top of my VW. Worked pretty well for the price. Lost the kayak in Brown's Canyon on the Arkansas. It still hurts to think about it. I built the boat in the garage from a mold using fibrecloth and resin.

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26 Aug 06 - 09:07 PM (#1819770)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: GUEST

was the fibre cloth paisley?

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26 Aug 06 - 09:45 PM (#1819779)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Naemanson

Here in Guam we use sit-on-top kayaks. The tropical waters are very warm so it is no hardship to get wet. And there's no need for an Eskimo roll if you lose it in the waves.

The island is surrounded by a reef so the surf pound way out beyond the beach and leaves a large calm lagoon for kayaking. The only difficulty is protection from the tropical sun. If you aren't careful you can get badly sunburned.

But there are beautiful small islands to visit and plenty of waterlife to see. The water is so clear that at times it is like paddling through the air. In the deep water there seems to be a blue tint to the water. Occasionally you'll scare up a flight of flying fish. Once we were treated to a double rainbow after a shower ran over us.

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27 Aug 06 - 07:02 AM (#1819907)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Partridge

I used to teach kyaking here in the UK. The main rule we had was that "less than three there should never be" (one to stay with injured one to get help if needed) That rule applied whether we were on moving water or ponds.

As for equipment, my choice would be a quartz crystal - for protection. but hey thats me - an old hippie!

Hope you have a great and safe trip

love

Pat x

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27 Aug 06 - 07:03 AM (#1819908)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Partridge

Yea an old hippie who can't spell - kayaking

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27 Aug 06 - 01:29 PM (#1820049)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: open mike

ok just a bit of thread drift...drifting with the tide here..
there are two great collections of songs about paddling on the water
(all be it Canoe songs) which might appeal to those of you
who have to bide your time between paddling adventures..

Canoesongs, volume 1 and 2 are put out by Portage Productions
Paul and Bev Mills -0- the Millstream, toronto...sound familiar?
This was a collaboative effort between James Ralfan and Paul Mills,
and is a benefit for a canoe museum (maybe they allow kayaks, too?)

check their web site--www.canoesongs.ca (should i start a new thread specifiacally about canoes or is this close enough?)

they have a lovely display rack for their discs..i would love to
see this on every counter where canoes, kayaks and paddles are sold!

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27 Aug 06 - 01:37 PM (#1820056)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Lady Hillary

As long as you are mentioning CD's try Lynn Noel's. She knows whereof she sings.

Add to the list croakies and clips for glasses and hats, as well as means to keep other objects with you when, not if, you dump.

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27 Aug 06 - 01:50 PM (#1820064)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Lonesome EJ

Guest

No the cloth wasn't paisley. More of a Bleeding Madras.:>}

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27 Aug 06 - 02:14 PM (#1820078)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: robomatic

Also check out a pretty neat book "Rowing To Latitude" about long term traveling in Sea 'kayaks' but kayaks fitted with rowing devices, so you get to face backwards and put your whole body into it. Interesting photo there of a mummified whale stuck on the side of a seacliff.

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27 Aug 06 - 02:45 PM (#1820107)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Lady Hillary

Jersey PAddler's e-dress is:

www.JerseyPaddler.com

and, yes, they do ship.

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03 Sep 06 - 09:12 AM (#1825880)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Raptor

Wow I started this thread and forgot about it.

Nice to read.

I since bought the Current Designs Storm Kayak.

Yakima Towers, Bars, Gunwhale mounts, And the Yak J hooks.

They work great for me but if I wasn't 6'3" I'd have trouble getting the kayak on top of my van. It weighs 62lbs.

My advice for what its worth is get the lightest paddle you can aford!

Raptor

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03 Sep 06 - 09:35 AM (#1825893)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: LilyFestre

Raptor,

    What about paddles that are wider at the base? I would think the idea is to give you more power behind the stroke. I haven't tried them yet but hope to soon as my friend just got such a paddle. Any thoughts about these, anybody?

Michelle

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04 Sep 06 - 01:53 PM (#1826700)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Raptor

The whole paddle should be dipped in a proper stroke so I"m not shure the shape is as important as size.

I did notice that paddle length makes a difference.

Raptor

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04 Sep 06 - 04:02 PM (#1826816)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Amos

You must tell the Actress. I believe the Bishop has been withholding this information from her for reasons of his own.

A

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04 Sep 06 - 09:10 PM (#1827086)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Willie-O

Less than three, never? On a pond???? Come off it. The hell with a supposedly risk-free environment. That's not what life is for.

I go out by myself, to challenge myself, using appropriate safety gear and an understanding of where I am and the current conditions. Or I go with my son, for the fun of watching him paddle and the pleasure we both get from being out there.

I use a Nimbus Seawater paddle--laminated western cedar strips, big cupped blades--which is very sweet and powerful. Recently young Keith and I were out together and he was lagging behind (again) so I switched paddles with him--he has a knockdown Grey Owl paddle with about 2/3 the blade area of the Nimbus, and a shorter, slower boat. All of a sudden he was keeping right up with me, in fact I was trying to keep up with HIM.

I still remember what a big change it made in my paddling experience when I got the Nimbus instead of the shaky old flat-bladed knockdown that came with my $70 auction-special kayak (1984). Cost more than the boat, and well worth it!

W-O

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05 Sep 06 - 01:52 AM (#1827173)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Partridge

The three rule comes from the "Britsh canoe union" which most canoeists join in the UK as it gives access to certain bodies of water here. It does work, I know of several canoeists who would not be here today if they had not followed it - myself included.
Water can be unpredictable - thats a risk I know about.
Yes some risks are worth taking, thats up to you Willie-O
Pat x

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05 Sep 06 - 08:28 AM (#1827347)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Willie-O

I can see the logic in it. It's more a question of what kind of experience are you looking for? (acknowledged on the BCU website, Canoe England section: "Sea kayaking for many, however, is a quiet, individual experience to be enjoyed quietly, away from the crowds.")

For me two is a crowd, but one I don't mind.

Partially you might consider the different cultural role of the canoe & kayak. Both are indigenous to North America and were developed for utilitarian purposes, basic transportation, hunting and fishing. People have been casual about their use here cause they've always been around. In the past few years the police have started doing on-water patrols and handing out tickets to paddlers and powerboaters alike for everything from lack of lifejackets (understandable) to lack of a whistle (a bit over the top), as well as the perennial favourite "open liquor". However no one has mandated paddling in groups so I put the safety equipment handy and do my thing.

I saw a TV show aptly titled "We Should Be Dead" about two incredibly inept sea kayakers who got into trouble in Puget Sound, cause they did EVERYTHING wrong due to macho stupidity. One was experienced, the other one lied and said he was but had never paddled before. My favourite part: Only one had a spray skirt that fit, but they agreed that it would not be used because they didn't both have one...then they tried to cross three miles of open water and surprise, the rookie paddler couldn't handle the boat (didn't know there were foot pedals to help steer) and took on a lot of water.   The other paddler was way ahead already, saw his friend in trouble behind, and decided to forge ahead to land and get help. Meanwhile Stupidhead #2 just saw his buddy abandoning him and had no idea why...he drifted around all night till he managed to land on an island by a lighthouse, and the search & rescue picked him up in the morning.

Now if there had been three of them, #3 could have stayed with Stupidhead #2 and they could have drifted around together...but by far the better plan would be not to have gone out until they were properly equipped for the conditions, (they launched just before dark too!!!) and each been honest about skill level. Paddling isn't rocket science and someone who is a complete novice but has the requisite physical strength can get through pretty heavy water with a little coaching IF THE BOAT IS APPROPRIATE FOR THE WATERS AND PROPERLY SET UP.

Oh yeah, and I take a cell phone, also not mandatory. Never had to make a distress call, but it's fun to bug my (few) friends by calling them up and saying "guess where I am!"

Happy paddling.

W-O

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05 Sep 06 - 07:18 PM (#1827915)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Geordie-Peorgie

Aah'd hev a sign which said

"Kayak for sale - Make me an offer"

And a £20 note to sit in he pub garden & buy drinks with until somebody bought me kayak.

Divvent gerrus wrong! Aah loved my canoe to bits but the rapidly expanding waist, arse, thighs & belly meant gettin' in and oot of it were too likely te gerriz an 'early bath' .

Aah wez sad when it went but the lad who bought it loves it and spends hours up and doon the river on it - So aah can live with it (or withoot it - so to speak)

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06 Sep 06 - 03:45 PM (#1828649)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Partridge

Taking a cell phone is a really good idea. In the days I was canoeing a lot it was not an option as they were few and far between. I miss it, I've not done it for ages - a story about a dry suit that did not fit well.................mmmmmmmm capsize, stuck in a stopper( a bit like being in a spin drier) michelin man, drinking the river trent........oooooh never again.

Pat - whose lost her bottle

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06 Sep 06 - 05:40 PM (#1828711)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: LilyFestre

After a incredibly busy 2 weeks and quite a bit of rain, I am going kayaking tomorrow night after I'm done teaching! ****HAPPY DANCE****

My question is this, for those of you who are recreational kayakers, when do you put your boat up for the season (think no spray skirt, wet suit and all that kind of gear)? I hate to even think about it but the reality is, soon the water will be too cold for jeans and a sweatshirt kind of paddle...at least a safe one anyway. So, when do you dock your boat for the season? When the water temp. hits what?

I can't wait to poke around the lake....I've missed it!!!!!!!

Michelle

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10 Sep 06 - 12:43 PM (#1831185)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: GUEST,Partridge

In the UK there is usually only enough waterin the rivers during the autumn and winter and part of the spring, so the water temp is always v. v. cold.

Pat x

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10 Sep 06 - 02:42 PM (#1831256)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: GUEST,noddy

A WARNING, remember that if you do it in your wetsuit you stew in your own juice!

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10 Sep 06 - 04:43 PM (#1831341)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Lady Hillary

EBarnacle here.
A cell phone does not always work. If it gets wet or is out of range, you only get frustrated. Invest in a good, waterproof handheld marine radio. The lifesaving services monitor the relevant frequencies 24/7. It can make the difference between life and death. As with any other tool, make sure the battery is charged and that it works. Before setting out, call for a radio check and wait for an answer. Whether or not you have a problem, it is nice to know that there is someone out there if you have a problem.

Finally, the best way to gain skills is to TAKE A COURSE! In the US, many organizations offer either Red Cross or BCU training. Based upon my experience, the BCU is better, as you cannot be certified at a given level until you have completed a menu of specified skills.

LAdy Hillary completed BCU Star 2 this Summer.

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11 Sep 06 - 11:28 AM (#1831873)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Raptor

I was out on sat. and it was lovely.

Raptor

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11 Sep 06 - 01:17 PM (#1831959)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: GUEST,petr

Ive done a number of sea kayak trips both guided and unguided here on the Pacific Coast. The gulf islands in the Georgia strait are lovely to kayak around and the waters are relatively safe, although you still need to be aware of tides and currents.
Our honeymoon was a kayaking trip in the Broken Islands in Barkley Sound
(west coast of Vancouver island) and weve done a couple of trips to Clayoquot Sound also on the west coast but farther north (near Tofino)
each time we saw grey whales, sea lions, and a huge variety of seabirds.
Clayoquot sound with Flores and Vargas islands have incredibly long flat empty sandy beaches. Kayaking in ocean swells is definitely disconcerting - when the kayak in front of you disappears and all you see is the paddle -but most spills happen when landing or taking off.

We also got canoe and have taken it often around Vancouver - there are a number of mountain lakes around here where the water is like glass in the morning - but due to the mountains and rising hot air - tend to get very windy in the afternoons. Also places like Pitt Lake which is a tidal lake - we learned the hardway to secure the canoe.

Its a bit difficult now with a 20month old daughter and another baby due in 2 months but well be back to the water again eventually. Its certainly some of the best memories of my life, being out on the water and watching grey whales swim by.

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11 Sep 06 - 05:09 PM (#1832126)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: LilyFestre

I was out last night and saw my very first Bald Eagle in the wild! There wasn't another soul on the water and it was absolute heaven. The water was smooth, almost glassy and the sounds of the woods surrounding the lake were the only sounds I heard. Not a car. Not a boat. Not a voice. The fish were rising all around the lake and the herons were out and about looking for their dinner.

I think it was the finest kayaking I have experienced yet....so very relaxing and peaceful.

Michelle

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11 Sep 06 - 06:55 PM (#1832210)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Naemanson

Wahhh, since I injured my wrist I can't go kayaking. It isn't paddling that is hard on the wrist, though I'd think it would hurt. I just cannot lift the kayak on to and off of the car without severe pain.

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11 Sep 06 - 07:28 PM (#1832227)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: GUEST,LilyFestre

Well darnit Man, if you didn't live so far away, I'd come lift the yak on and off the car for you!!!!!!   See, that's what you get for going and livin' in another country...the very idea! *wink*
I hope your wrist gets to feeling better (or at least have some buds to lend a helping hand) and you can get out and enjoy the water soon!

Michelle who has been jealous of your kayaking water ever since you posted about it!

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11 Sep 06 - 10:12 PM (#1832303)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Raptor

I like the "Flow" of this thread.

Raptor

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17 Sep 06 - 09:42 PM (#1837037)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Willie-O

Well, I take a cell phone because I have one...works for me. Anyway as I mentioned, I only actually use it to bug my friends, and tell my darling when to expect me home.

Revisiting the video with the orcas...did you notice that although the audio is good, you can't understand what is being said? You can if you speak Korean...cause the damn thing is a commercial for Powerade, made there. I found it on Snopes.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/kayak.asp

They started with footage of the whales and just added in the kayakers. No wonder the guy's boat disappears so quickly. It was never there to start with.

I haven't been out in a few weeks but hope to get some more water time. I like the spring and fall seasons. Just got some thermal paddling mitts which will make a big difference--you fasten them to the paddle with velcro closure and keep your hand inside. If I find a good sale I'm going to get a decent paddling jacket too.

W-O

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18 Sep 06 - 12:55 AM (#1837136)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: GUEST,Partidge

You see nature from a different level in a kayak. I saw my first kingfisher on the river leven. It was so cold that the ice had formed across the paddle and onto my hands - I was wearing marigolds at the time...........fond memories

Pat x

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21 Sep 06 - 06:40 AM (#1839845)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Naemanson

Michelle, if you are jealous of our water you should come out here and try it out. February is a good month to come to Guam. It's the dry season so the temperatures stay in the low 80's and the air is drier. The sea tends to be calmer then also.

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11 Nov 06 - 05:00 PM (#1883379)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: LilyFestre

Naemanson,

   I'd LOVE to but that just isn't feasible, at least not for this year! My husband came home the other night and surprised me with news of a 10 day vacation (part work/convention/conference) that we will be taking towards the end of April or beginning of May. Half of the time will be spent in southern Maryland at Jane's Island State Park/Chesapeake Bay/Assateauge Island...we haven't decided as of yet.

Two questions.
1. Have any of you encountered water snakes while kayaking? If so, what is the best method of getting them to swim in the opposite direction? I've read that many are quite aggressive. I'm not so worried about this on the larger, more open water, but in the swampy areas (where I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE to poke around), they are to be expected. I haven't ever encountered any but would like to know what to do if I did.

2. I am starting a work-out to increase the strength in my upper arms and back for the strong currents/wind I am going to face on the larger water. I want to be ready so I'm not exhausted after a day on the water or worried about my return trip once I'm way out. Do any of you kayakers do specific exercises to help with this?

Thanks!

Michelle

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11 Nov 06 - 09:19 PM (#1883566)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Naemanson

I am recovering from wrist surgery. I cannot do anything heavy with my right hand. I cannot go into the water for at least another month. Grumble, grumble, gripe, gripe....

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11 Nov 06 - 09:24 PM (#1883568)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: LilyFestre

YIKES! I hope you and your wrist recover soon!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Michelle

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11 Nov 06 - 10:37 PM (#1883617)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: GUEST,.gargoyle

Yakima - American autos.

Tuhle - European autos.

However, given this last season's experience...Yakima. Why?

The Tuhle seems to have excedingly narrow tolerance for different roof configurations...ie. Volvo to Saub transfer...once the Tuhle was set for one roof...it stripped its threads and required a return to the dealer...with half a day's travel lost. Tuhle did uphold the warrenty. Once it is set for your roof, marker-pen the locations on the bars AND on the roof-edge ... don't crank too far because some parts might be cheap China crap...and not the grand ol European Bessemer-Sheffield steel type.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

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11 Nov 06 - 11:03 PM (#1883632)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: GUEST,.gargoyle

Having now read the entire thread...it obviously drifted into areas other than roof-top-carriers.>p?

Old Town

YES!

Maybe not "the best" but certainly the oldest...and anyone will acknowledge their fame, and worship a restored wood frame.

Yeah, Joe...I too loved the wood and canvas...no forgiveness on shore or rock, wet foot always...(very unlike the plastic-trash-can ABS materials that slip and slide...or the aluminum that jab and grab.)

Foot pedals? Give me a brake! Duck,shift-hips,grab with the blade,pull-feather-push,shift-hips,upright again.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

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25 Nov 06 - 06:40 PM (#1893534)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Naemanson

The doctor has cleared me for kayaking! Now if only the weather would clear...

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25 Nov 06 - 07:25 PM (#1893561)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: LilyFestre

***************HAPPY DANCE***********************

That is GREAT news!!!!!!!!!!!!! I've been rereading my kayak magazines and daydreaming about an upcoming trip!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm glad your hand is feeling better!!!!!!!!

Michelle

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25 Nov 06 - 08:44 PM (#1893616)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: LilyFestre

Hey, while this thread is up, I am curious about carriers. I am considering getting one of the hook type carriers so that we might transport both the kayak and the canoe at the same time for our spring adventure. Do any of you have these hook shaped carriers? We refer to them as J or U hooks but I am unsure of the "correct" name for these things.

Michelle

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26 Nov 06 - 07:22 AM (#1893836)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Herge

Got a ageing roto bat - picture on this site and use a thule.

http://www.geocities.com/snogtherock/canoeing.html

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29 Mar 07 - 11:50 AM (#2010757)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Willie-O

Refresh, cause the season is nigh upon us!

I'm rigging up a trailer for 2 kayaks...started with a 4x4 utility trailer, luckily scored a kit to extend it to boat-trailer length at a Canadian Tire garage sale.   Still working on it but it will only take a couple of hours (not counting wiring the lights which is a big challenge for me).

Drove along the Thousand Islands Parkway yesterday morning and saw lots of open water, but still ice along the shore...but my yellow St Lawrence is going to get wet any day now.

Who else is getting ready?

W-O
Just put the skis away.

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29 Mar 07 - 11:59 AM (#2010771)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Amos

Water snakes: Raise paddle and rotate so edge is perpendicular to water. Bring rapidly downward at a point behind head of snake, following through to below surface of water. Repeat until snake shows sign of discouragement.


A

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14 Apr 07 - 10:13 AM (#2025128)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Willie-O

dammit I nuked my post.

What I was saying is, I'm going out paddling right now. Anyone else been out yet?

To see the modest bit of Mississippi I will be on, googleearth "McDonalds Corners Ontario Canada" --I'm taking the river from where county road 8 crosses it at the foot of Dalhousie Lake.
Just a couple of miles down and back--a handy stretch of calm open water to warm up on. I expect to see muskrats if nothing else.

Who has a fresh adventure to share?

W-O

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14 Apr 07 - 11:55 AM (#2025216)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Donuel

Rapaire had a suggestion for the electric kayak.

ITs powerful electric motor can propel you at 40 knots.
The 2 mile extension cord is both durable and floats.

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16 Apr 07 - 07:54 AM (#2026642)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: GUEST,!!!!

I saw you kayak out of the Marina Del Ray black hole, garg.

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16 Apr 07 - 09:09 AM (#2026701)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Willie-O

Garg, though knowledgeable in his field, didn't seem to comprehend the title of the thread.

OK, they're adjustable footrests, not pedals per se. They are pretty darn useful--in a KAYAK. Actually I recall I have seen some kind of foot-pedal-propelled kayak-thing, but I don't see it catching on.

Hey, I lied. Instead of going paddling I washed the dishes. Now it's snowing like crazy. Frig.

W-O

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16 Apr 07 - 09:44 AM (#2026743)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: EBarnacle

Actually the pedal powered device looks very interesting. It uses the largest muscles in the body and is designed to keep the body on centerline so that even the veriest novice is likely to stay upright.
Several kayak fishermen of my acquaintance have bought them in an effort to multitask. It will probably catch on with a fair sized segment of those who boat to catch fish rather than go for the exercise.
I believe it is an innovation by the Hobie company, who made catamarans popular, so there is a history of good engineering there, as well as a company used to do major marketing.

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16 Apr 07 - 09:46 AM (#2026745)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: MaineDog

Two miles is not nearly enough. Dog power is better, as water does not short it out. As for roof racks, I prefer to kayak in the water rather than on top of a speeding Subaru. Michelle, I live near Tenants Harbor, and do most of my kayaking in the Saint George river, where the principle hazards are too many lobster floats and marauding harbor seals. The eagles usually don't attack kayakers, as they are to busy stealing fish from the ospreys or spooking the crows.
MD

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05 May 07 - 07:02 PM (#2044208)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: LilyFestre

LOL Maine Dog, I have an image of a madman paddling away while sitting in a kayak perched on a Subaru winding it's way through the woods. Goggles. Life jacket. The works! Spring has finally made it's way to northern Pennsylvania. The days are warm, the nights cool, daffodils are in full bloom, the forsythia bushes are stunning and there are even dandelions! I took the kayak out today, the first time this year! It was fairly windy and the water was choppy, very choppy. I was planning on taking it easy today and just enjoying the moment. Well, I certainly did enjoy the moment but taking it easy just wasn't an option. Once I got to the middle of the lake and then around the bend, the wind kicked up. Instead of a leisurely paddle, I was given a complete workout by Mother Nature. The spray from my paddle blew back in my face, the trees along the shore were swaying as the wind howled. Did I turn back? NO WAY! I waited far too long to be out on the water and I pressed on! I saw a few varieties of ducks and watched the show the swallows were putting on. It was wonderful! The fields were covered with a mix of bright green, new grass and old golden weeds from last year. The pine trees were green (of course) and the hardwoods have the slightest hint of buds, no leaves just yet.    Now for the question. Has anyone been out for a sojourn? If so, how many days? Lots of people? Solo?

Michelle

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05 May 07 - 07:13 PM (#2044214)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: gnu

Here
is the kind of Kayak I like.

Anything smaller gives me the willies.

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05 May 07 - 10:39 PM (#2044340)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: EBarnacle

Weeelll, Caribou skin works almost as well as sealskin.

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06 May 07 - 08:54 AM (#2044524)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Willie-O

Hey gnu, I'm sure that would be my preferred vessel for a transit from Sydney to Port Aux Basques. But MV Caribou would have a lot of trouble navigating Mud Lake (I'm thinking of a particular Mud Lake but there are many and this generalization applies to all of them), unlike a kayak.

W-O
been out once, the little Mississippi pond-hop I described earlier.
Perfect weather today but I'm going to a session instead.

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06 May 07 - 07:32 PM (#2044865)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: LilyFestre

I'm looking forward to a 5 day kayaking sojourn, complete with wilderness camping!!!! I'm starting to get my gear together and am working out to make sure I am set for the longer mileage days. I'm also excited because I will be encountering some small whitewater and rapids...looks like fun to me!!!!!
    Has anyone here used a water filtration system to make stream water safe to drink? There are several on the market, many suggestions online but I'd rather hear from folks who have used them and can point out the ups or downs of what they have used. Thanks!

Michelle

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07 May 07 - 10:43 AM (#2045200)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Greg B

Our local kayak livery offered a 'season pass' for the first
time this year. We took 'em up on it. So I'll be spending quite
a bit of time in an Old Town Loon 111 on the Delaware River between
Frenchtown and Pt. Pleasant this season.

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07 May 07 - 04:58 PM (#2045452)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Greg B

LilyFestre--- how do you feel about your Pungo after some
period of ownership?

We looked at them, loved the wonderful adjustable and supportive
seat. But I was concerned that in the river the keel might make
it hard to do one of my favorite things...eddy-turn. (I get
this perverse enjoyment turning upstream in an eddy and re-doing
the rapid, while informing passing tubers "You're going the
wrong way.")

The Pungo looked great for making straight lines, especially
for new paddlers who have difficulty drawing a straight line.

Do you ever wish for more ability to turn sharply?

The Pamlico looked better for playing around in mixed waters,
but, to my eye at least, the nearly pancake-flat bottom just
wasn't as pleasing as something more sculpted.

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07 May 07 - 05:19 PM (#2045480)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: gnu

Turn sharply... now, there is a scary thought.

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07 May 07 - 05:22 PM (#2045487)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: LilyFestre

LOL...."YOu're going the wrong way." Love it!!!!!

I absolutely LOVE my Pungo. That being said, I have to tell you that I have not had it out on very large water (closest being the water leading into one of the Finger Lakes (Cayuga) in our region. I mostly take it out on smallish lakes or canals. I am about to embark on my very first river adventure very soon. I've been assured that my boat is more than capable of handling the larger water and waves (should I ever get out on the bigger water). I have no issues with the turning capabilities, although I have not had to make any intensely sharp turns out of necessesity. One of my favorite things to do is to increase the speed as much as I can and bank a turn. The boat leans, the waves roll and I'm having pure fun! I'll be trying out the Susquehanna for kicks sometime soon (preparation for my sojourn and to make sure I'm good with a 5mph moving current). I'll have to try out the upriver paddling tactics...see if I can find any tubers around...LOL! I'll let you know!
    I will say that one downfall of the Pungo is the cargo area. The lids, unlike the Old Townes, are like the lids you find on Tupperware. It is difficult to get it completely shut and often ends up having some water inside (not much but enough to get your stuff wet....no need for a bilge pump...maybe a sponge though) and is kind of inconvienent. Luckily, a dry bag is an easy fix.
    I have a friend who took out a Perception and hated it. It tracks for crap and wasn't comfortable for her at all. Another friend took out a Wilderness Series Sit-Upon and she didn't like that either. I think that was more the case of her preferring to be sitting down in, with more leg coverage though. I'd be interested to hear about what you take out. No matter what, have a great time!!!! I can see the funny looks from the tubers already!!!
*BIG STUPID GRIN*

Michelle

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07 May 07 - 05:29 PM (#2045492)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: LilyFestre

So Greg, do you do whitewater kayaking? I'm sure that Class III rapids and up would be a nightmare in my kayak. It just isn't designed for that....you would need a much shorter, flatter bottomed, wider boat. I've yet to try that although my husband's best friend's wife has a boat like that...she's going to be introducing me to some rougher water later this summer (if my courage remains..LOL). And if you are doing whitewater, do you do the rock gardens? I've watched many videos on YouTube where they look like great fun and others look like a death trap...

Michelle

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07 May 07 - 05:47 PM (#2045515)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: LilyFestre

Ok, here's a short YouTube video that shows a mix of both the ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND rapids and the ones that look slightly scarey but also strangley exhilarating (at least to me..LOL). I like the run from about the 34 second mark in the video.

YouTube Kayak Video: A Nice Mix

These smaller/shorter boats are much more receptive to turns and bobs. The nose is more shaped like duck bill and the cockpit is also much more closed (and they have a skirt oon) than a Pungo. Enjoy the video!!

Michelle

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07 May 07 - 08:00 PM (#2045627)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: EBarnacle

No Thanks, LAst time in tried to get in and out of one of those play boats [the largest model available] I scraped significant skin from my legs. I am quite happy to stick with my homebuilt sailing kayak.

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07 May 07 - 11:28 PM (#2045765)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: iancarterb

I read to the middle of the '06 posts and skipped to the '07, so I may have missed some significant ones. We have paddled in the glorious Queen Charlotte Islands twice (25 years ago!), in Kleppers owned by the group we went with, and sailing them on a broad reach or straight down wind was great, and, despite the leeboards, any closer to the wind than that was not. Their packability to get 6 of them onto/into float planes was terrific. I have never been in a Folboat, but the Klepper enthusiasts regarded them as death traps. I suspect a mix of prejudice and truth- any kayak in treacherous conditions is cautionary. Our own boats are 25 year old Eddyline ocean kayaks, one single and one double, made in Mukilteo, WA, and my favorite thing about them is their complete resistance to learning the eskimo roll. Beamy to a fault. Always felt safe in them even in grueling headwind. The only caution I had to learn the hard way was in paddling BETWEEN lakes in northern BC- it was not to bother raising the rudder, UNSHIP the rudder. I had to do a bit of wilderness epoxying on the double kayak right after learning that. I feel about real rapids the way I feel about climbing mountains: any understanding I may have of the impulse to engage in negotiating either is purely intellectual. Volunteering for trouble will remain a mystery to me until I die in bed. As for racks- we ahve a Thule, but I've never built a true roller to accomodate our galloping geezerhood and decreasing ability to get the boats up easily onto the top of the car. The Eddylines ARE heavy. If I hadn't already had the bike mounts, and the adapters for various roof types, I'd have shopped for something easier. They are, however, VERY secure, once they're loaded.    Carter B

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08 May 07 - 07:59 AM (#2045996)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: LilyFestre

Hi Ian!

   If you have the type of kayak rack that sits on top of your vehicle in the shape of 2 "V"s, you can replace the rear "V" with a roller...it sits at the very rear of your vehicle at the base of that "V". I have on on my vehicle and it has been a tremendous help in my being able to load and unload the kayak without assistance. I don't know what you drive but I have a very tall Ford Explorer Sport. When I load the kayak, I stand it up, lean the tip into the V and lift from the rear of the boat. By the time the boat is halfway on, the remainder of the boat is completely over my head, arms extended up all the way. The roller takes some of the weight off and eases the pushing. I had my rack on the Explorer all winter and it still works like a charm!

Ok...enough of the plug for Thule, I'm off to load up the yak for some later afternoon paddling.

Michelle

PS. How many of you LOVE LOVE LOVE to poke around in the marshes?

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08 May 07 - 11:47 AM (#2046184)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: Greg B

EBarnacle in a play boat--- that'd look sort of look like a
teddy bear stuffed into a gardening clog!

"Our" piece of the Delaware has, depending on the flow (ironically,
LOW water tends to leave it most frisky due to protruding
rocks; at high water it's just an expressway) some Class I rapids
and an occasional Class II. In between, it is grand, wide, smooth,
and scenic.

I like to say that "you can make a class I into a class II by
screwing up on purpose." I think every rapid contains some
higher class pieces if you find it and steer into it. That's
a good way to learn, because if you screw up, you and your
boat blow out into safer conditions, to either recover yourself
or think about it.

Steer into some standing waves on purpose--- maybe ones
a foot or two high: You'll be amazed how, just when it appears that
you're toast, the bow of the kayak lifts up and over. Just keep her straight and don't fall off sideways in the trough, otherwise you'll
be all a-glub in no time at all. But don't get scared when a wave
bursts and soaks your crotch--- that's part of the fun.

Go for the 'bad' spots... just keep it straight, you'll be fine.

Pass close to a big rock or set of rocks (not so close
you get sucked in) and when you are right along side
the rock, start an upstream turn into the eddy just
downstream of the rock. You have to start the turn
sooner than you think. But don't over-lean; use your
paddle, not too much body-English or you'll dump the
boat. Forget what you see guys doing in the play boats---
they're simultaneously 'dragging' the turn and preventing
a capsize. Keep the boat well-balanced while you 'force'
a sharp turn with the paddle.

This is where the Pungo's long straight run of keel may
fight you; you're going to have to figure out how to overcome
its good tracking manners.

You can 'sit' in the eddy for quite some time,
and if it's substantial enough, you can paddle upstream
in it. Just there at the top, it is sometimes possible to have
the bow in upstream water, cutting like crazy, with the back
2/3 of the boat 'stuck' in the eddy. This is really kind of
fun.

Just be careful there at the top, where it reverses--- the boat
may try and sheer off sideways, and the key is to make sure that any time you spend sideways changing directions to point down-stream is spent in relatively calm water, such as the middle of the
eddy. You don't want to be ejected sideways into standing waves downstream of the eddy!

If you can't get fully turned, then come out backwards and
re-group in calmer water. Beats sideways any day!

I find that this kind of playing around is best done in
a boat between 10 and 11 feet. At 12 feet, I find I can't
force the boat around like I want and am at risk of screwing
the pooch. Don't even get me started about tandems.

I'm kind of sad to see that Old Town has discontinued the
Loon 111s--- they've been our favorites for a while. In
fact, they don't have a new 11-footer, but the new 100 (10
feet) looks pretty nice.

Now, I grew up in little boats, swim well, and am not really
afraid of tipping over. I can't remember the last time I did
so accidentally. I'm also not really happy unless I arrive
at the take-out with my shorts wet from a bow wave. I'm not
trained in rolling and recovering a kayak--- we don't use
skirts and helmets anyway; too hot and overkill for the kind
of waters we're in. But I think with a bit of river play some
place like our Delaware most folks will get very comfortable
very quickly. My paddling partner did, and she went from 'never
been in a kayak' to really good in just a few sessions.

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09 May 07 - 07:32 AM (#2046893)
Subject: RE: BS: Kayak Questions
From: LilyFestre

I spent a good part of yesterday afternoon paddling around a local lake at State Park. The water was sooo smooth and surprisingly, the water was also quite warm. I immediately headed over to my favorite little area, usually full of waterlilies. It proved to be a very interesting afternoon because the lilies have yet to come up. Oh sure, there were a few lily pads poking up (did you know they are pinkish/red when still closed and so new?) but for the most part, I could see right down to the bottom of the lake. The water in that section is much more shallow than I would have imagined, but then again, I've never been in that area without an overabundance of plant life.
    There were two pairs of mallards on the water and several Canadian Geese.....two sets with babies. They were on the shore and they allowed me to get incredibly close to observe them. I'd say I was no more than 2 yards away from them. I had a great view as I was down in the boat and they were up (about 8 inches) on the grass. The babies were so much fun to watch...all fluff and not a care in the world. As long as I sat absolutely still, the adults didn't seem to have a care in the world either. I also found 3 small turtles sunning themselves on an old stump. They were very skittish and incredibly fast! They slipped off that stump in a big hurry when I was nearby. It didn't take them long to come back and it was a nice treat to have found them. Most likely I will go back today but this time I'll have my camera!
    Overall, it was a nice time on the water. I got a little bit of color, high school kids were splashing about in the swimming area (even though the fencing was still up and the lake patrol guy came and asked them to leave) and 4 boys were fishing on the other side of the lake near my put-in point. Only 1 other boat on the water....a nice quiet lake with lots of space to poke around!

Question: What kinds of wildlife have you seen while kayaking? What's your favorite to sit and watch?

Michelle

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