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23 Sep 06 - 05:38 PM (#1841642) Subject: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Old Guy Saudis believe bin Laden is deadParis, September 23 A French newspaper today published what it said was a report by the country's intelligence services that said Saudi Arabia believes Osama bin Laden died of typhoid in Pakistan this month. France's Defence Ministry issued a statement saying the newspaper report "cannot be confirmed" and that Defence Minister Michele Alliot-Marie had ordered an investigation "to determine the source of this leak, which is a crime punishable by law." France's foreign intelligence service, the DGSE, also refused to confirm the report, and no immediate official reaction was forthcoming from Saudi officials. But European and Pakistani officials tracking bin Laden's whereabouts told AFP, on condition of anonymity, that the report could not be seen as reliable. Often rumoured to be dead in the past -- only to appear later in audio or video recordings -- the leader of the Al-Qaida terror network was believed to have taken refuge on the border region between Pakistan and Afghanistan. Previous reported rumours have said that he suffered from a kidney disorder and was in poor health. The French regional newspaper l'Est Republicain published what it said was a DGSE report dated September 21. "According to a usually reliable source, the Saudi security services are now convinced that Osama bin Laden is dead," the DGSE report quoted by the newspaper said. It said that "information gathered by the Saudis" indicates that bin Laden "might have succumbed to a very serious case of typhoid fever resulting in partial paralysis of his lower limbs on August 23, 2006. |
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23 Sep 06 - 05:39 PM (#1841644) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: GUEST Gee. Too bad. |
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23 Sep 06 - 06:10 PM (#1841669) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Greg F. That's Osama bin Forgotten- at least by the BuShites. If they don't care, why should anyone else? |
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23 Sep 06 - 06:14 PM (#1841670) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Ebbie Perhaps I'll believe it when the Saudi bin Laden family holds a state funeral for the man. |
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23 Sep 06 - 06:51 PM (#1841684) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: The Shambles I reckon it was those bloody sting rays again. |
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23 Sep 06 - 07:00 PM (#1841687) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: GUEST If I have the choice, dead would be nice. |
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23 Sep 06 - 07:36 PM (#1841699) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: George Papavgeris It would save some people the embarassment of his dying of old age before he was caught. But the truth is, he's become irrelevant in the maelstom of Arab and Muslim disaffection and the Western world's continuing mistrust. He was a symbol once, for some people - I don't think he has been much of even that recently. It all leaves a strange taste. |
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23 Sep 06 - 08:05 PM (#1841717) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Old Guy If it sounds too good to be true, it is probably not true. But there is always hope. |
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23 Sep 06 - 08:19 PM (#1841728) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: GUEST What's his version of 'You spin me round' like then? Better than Pete's? |
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23 Sep 06 - 08:35 PM (#1841737) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: GUEST I doubt if he is dead but it sure saves Bush the embarrassment of being unable to find him. |
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23 Sep 06 - 08:51 PM (#1841744) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Scoville I doubt he's dead, and even if he were I think it would turn into one of those Elvis situations where we'll never really let him die even though he's not physically alive. |
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23 Sep 06 - 08:56 PM (#1841748) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: GUEST Like, they have you believing that Elvis is dead? Sheesh. What next? |
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23 Sep 06 - 09:05 PM (#1841754) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: GUEST I think I have found the answer . . . . |
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23 Sep 06 - 09:13 PM (#1841758) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: GUEST No I think you'll find I have the answer.... |
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23 Sep 06 - 10:04 PM (#1841769) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Rapparee Sadam Hussein would be devestated if he dead. |
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23 Sep 06 - 10:11 PM (#1841773) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: GUEST D. B. Cooper and bin Laden - same, same. |
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23 Sep 06 - 11:04 PM (#1841783) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Little Hawk And what about Bat Boy, Rapaire??? ;-) What would he think? Bin Laden is worth more far to the USA alive than dead, seems to me...since he remains a symbolic propaganda tool of some importance (though it keeps declining all the time). No matter which one of these media-made bogeymen dies, however, the fighting goes on. Has anyone noticed that? That's because the fighting is a result of longstanding and grievous and very real geopolitical issues...it is not the result of a few token evil "bad guys" and their doings. This is not a TV drama, with an evil few criminal masterminds who are responsible for all that is wrong, and it will not provide a neat resolution for everyone at the end of the show when they conveniently kick the bucket in some way or another. It will not solve the problem when they die. This is real life, and real life is just not that simple. In real life it isn't a case of the bad guys all being on one side, and the good guys all being on the other. |
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24 Sep 06 - 12:38 AM (#1841804) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Old Guy If he were killed in battle or executed, he would be a martyr. If he was captured and held in jail it would cause people to be taken hostage for his release or even be beheaded in retribution. It would be better if the died, especially from some cruddy thing like typhoid, because it would show he is nothing special. |
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24 Sep 06 - 12:56 AM (#1841806) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Ebbie It just occurred to me- I know the answer. The answer is YES. |
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24 Sep 06 - 04:26 AM (#1841843) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Pauline L Hussein has been captured and bin Laden is dead. So why are we still fighting a war in Iraq? |
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24 Sep 06 - 04:43 AM (#1841847) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: ard mhacha So that`s it then Bin Laden is dead, the war is over, let the lads come home, and Pluto won the greyhound Derby. Bush and co have created countless Bin Laden clones, ready to take his place. |
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24 Sep 06 - 09:58 AM (#1842007) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Willie-O Oddly enough I agree (mostly) with Old Guy's last post! OBL proven dead of natural causes would solve a lot of nasty problems, especially the peculiar quasi-friendly standoff between the US and Pakistan regarding where he might be and who might (or might not) go find him and confront him. But yeah, it's probably too good to be true. US and French intelligence seem very skeptical. And it's thought that if he did die, Al-Quaeda would move quickly with their very effective propaganda machine, in order to get their own spin out first and use the event in their own way. (No doubt to make him a martyr and inspiration for more ugly violence) W-O |
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24 Sep 06 - 10:24 AM (#1842023) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Old Guy It takes about two weeks for a video tape to be donkey expressed from Bin Laden's hidey hole to Al Jazeera. If we don't hear from him for two weeks I will assume that he has probably croaked. |
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24 Sep 06 - 11:13 AM (#1842055) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: akenaton I agree with Ard mhacha. The conflagration is now burning out of control. The Muslim fundamentalists no longer need a figurehead to rally round, Western foreign policy has given them all the amunition they need. Iraq was the greatest political mistake in living memory, including Vietnam, and the architects of that mistake, both in the US and the UK should be punished by their respective electorates. Here on Mudcat, thankfully most of the apologists have realised that their position was indefencible, Teribus and others not worth naming are conspicious by their absence, but the rats in Whitehall and Washington still cling on by their fingernails. In Britain, I sense a change politically. The sleeping giant is starting to awaken......I have great hopes for that other sleeping giant across the Atlantic Ocean.......Ake |
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24 Sep 06 - 11:58 AM (#1842085) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Bill D I expect a video from Osama anytime now "Yes, I am dead....you may quit looking for me." |
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24 Sep 06 - 12:01 PM (#1842089) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Dave (the ancient mariner) Nigeria: Despite an effort to vaccinate all children against polio (and complete a worldwide campaign to destroy the disease), more cases of polio have appeared in the north. This is more a political and religious, than a medical problem. Moslem religious leaders have asserted that the vaccinations are a Christian plot to poison Moslems, and this delayed vaccinations for over a year, which allowed the disease to spread into areas where it had previously been eliminated. Despite government success in getting the major Moslem leaders to back the vaccinations, some clerics still believe the paranoid version of what the vaccinations are all about. Such attitudes fuel continued support of Islamic radicalism, including terrorism and hostility towards the Christian south. Over the last week, Moslem mobs have burned eleven Christian churches in the north, and caused thousands of Christians to flee their homes. Moslems were protesting alleged disrespect by Christians, and recent remarks by the pope, in which Islam was called a violent religion. This has been going on all over the world largely unreported by Western media for many years. The recent war in Iraq had fuck all to do with it. We are at a point in time where we fight or surrender to Islamic terrorism. Your Choice! |
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24 Sep 06 - 12:04 PM (#1842092) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: GUEST "and recent remarks by the pope, in which Islam was called a violent religion." Nothing violent about the followers of Mohammed. No, not at all. |
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24 Sep 06 - 12:07 PM (#1842094) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Greg F. We are at a point in time where we fight or surrender to Islamic terrorism. Your Choice! Best change your meds or try a higher dosage. |
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24 Sep 06 - 12:24 PM (#1842111) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: GUEST Higher than yours? |
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24 Sep 06 - 12:37 PM (#1842122) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Dave (the ancient mariner) Greg F, If you cannot use logic in discussion, don't resort to silly childish comments. The truth is you cannot face the fact that this is a war of ideals. The radical Islamic factions are not interested in negotiations and do not respect their own national governments. International law means nbothing to them either. What next? |
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24 Sep 06 - 01:09 PM (#1842151) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: akenaton How can you justify the slaughter that the war has brought to the people of Iraq? While we attempt to export our brand of democracy to other cultures and faiths we will always be under attack. Fight Terrorism??? I live near a small country town in Scotland, there are now almost 500 registered drug addicts living there, some as young as fourteen. Children as young as nine or ten are used as couriers by the dealers. They carry herion wrapped in clingfilm in their mouths and deliver it by bicycle. Young girls of fifteen and sixteen regularly travel to sell their bodies in the larger towns for the price of a hit. There is one state funded drugs worker attempting to run a methadone program, but the government says there are insufficient funds available to properly staff it. In my opinion any society which is unable or unwilling to protect its children is not worth fighting for. Before you take your medication, try to read this I |
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24 Sep 06 - 01:14 PM (#1842156) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: pdq Ake... What you describe is 'social breakdown' It is caused by Liberalism. No amount of money can fix it. |
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24 Sep 06 - 01:15 PM (#1842159) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: GUEST Lock-step. That would be much better. Left, right, left, right...... |
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24 Sep 06 - 01:17 PM (#1842160) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: GUEST bin laden clone on Google images. Go to the far right (haha). The game is called bin laden liquors. Get to do to him what he's been doing to others. More fun than penguins. |
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24 Sep 06 - 01:22 PM (#1842164) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: akenaton Take that medication quickly GUEST.....After a short while you will stop thinking you're Adolf Hitler....Ake |
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24 Sep 06 - 01:25 PM (#1842167) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: GUEST Why? pdq blames liberalism for the fall of Western society. I was simply remarking. No sane person believes that, Ake. Humor. Get it? Not as funny as Muslim attacks on churches, but humor anyway. There's no accounting for taste. |
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24 Sep 06 - 01:26 PM (#1842170) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: akenaton You may be right about "liberalism" pdq....In the context it has been presented to us. |
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24 Sep 06 - 01:29 PM (#1842171) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: akenaton Apologies GUEST...being a dour Scot I had my humourration this morning :0) |
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24 Sep 06 - 01:34 PM (#1842173) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Dave (the ancient mariner) And just what do you suggest we do Ake? Surrender our democracy to Sharia law? Change our religions and give up music and freedom? |
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24 Sep 06 - 01:34 PM (#1842174) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: pdq Ake... Another point. It really is not fair to say "the money we spent for _______ could have been used to fix _______". The same could be said about the money used for building roads, preserving wildlife, exploring space or preserving the pagentry of your royal family. You need to judge each issue 'on merit' and then figure out a way to fund it. |
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24 Sep 06 - 01:53 PM (#1842187) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: akenaton Dave I would be quite happy to see the dealers parents and govt officials who preside over the abuse of our young people, subject to the full weight of sharia law. Your wonderful democracy is an empty shell. So empty that our children are prepared to shorten their lives in order to escape from it. |
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24 Sep 06 - 01:58 PM (#1842189) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: akenaton pdq...You miss the point. This state of affairs is not about money, but a bankrupt political phylosophy. |
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24 Sep 06 - 02:06 PM (#1842193) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: pdq Ake.. I assumed you meant "the money we spent in Iraq would have paid for programs that would have saved our kids". If you did not mean that, it sounded that way. I agree, no amount of money will make children behave who do not want to behave. Also, no amount of school spending will educate a mind which rejects education. |
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24 Sep 06 - 02:25 PM (#1842206) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: McGrath of Harlow This thread is drifting somewhat, but fair enough, whether Bin Laden is dead or alive is pretty insignificant. Dead he's probably more dangerous, beacuse that's how it works with symbolic figures. As for spending money and helping avoid kids screwing up their lives, it depends what you spend it on, and they never seem to spend it on the stuff that might make a difference. |
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24 Sep 06 - 02:42 PM (#1842218) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: GUEST If Old Guy isn't worried about the thread drifting, then neither will I. |
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24 Sep 06 - 04:19 PM (#1842280) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: GUEST Osama-osama-fee-fi-fo-fama bin Laden. Do suicide bombers have to pay union dues? |
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24 Sep 06 - 07:33 PM (#1842437) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Greg F. If you cannot use logic in discussion...Dave the ancient Now that is amusing, considering the way the source frames his arguments. |
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24 Sep 06 - 07:48 PM (#1842454) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Ron Davies If Bush could claim he had killed him, Bush would get a bump in the polls. But then, when it became obvious that there was in fact no diminution in terror activity after his death--Bush might well have a worse slump than ever. Especially as details emerge as to how the Iraq war has been a better recruiting tool for radical Islam than bin Laden ever was. |
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24 Sep 06 - 07:52 PM (#1842457) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: GUEST Radical Islam has never wanted for killers. The Imams build it into the religion. |
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24 Sep 06 - 08:07 PM (#1842468) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Ron Davies The Iraq war has been a great shot in the arm to radical Islam. Look how many radicals cite it. And it's no secret why. Every picture of a dead woman or child--due to "Coalition" action-- and broadcast on al-Jazeera helps immeasurably. Also look for instance at how Hezbollah successfully used it in the Lebanese election of 2005. "The US (and Israel) have a plan...." |
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24 Sep 06 - 08:14 PM (#1842473) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: GUEST And the shite Arab press does nothing to help. |
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24 Sep 06 - 08:18 PM (#1842478) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: bobad God bless our God |
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24 Sep 06 - 08:20 PM (#1842479) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Ron Davies Bush has played right into the hands of the radicals. |
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24 Sep 06 - 08:41 PM (#1842495) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: McGrath of Harlow Bin Laden is on record as saying that he had wanted Bush to be re-elected. Not surprising, considering what has been achieved for the Jihadist agenda. |
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24 Sep 06 - 08:57 PM (#1842506) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Greg F. Apologies for bringing this over from another thread but it seems pertinent here as well: Spy Agencies Say Iraq War Worsens Terror Threat By MARK MAZZETTI Published: September 24, 2006 WASHINGTON, Sept. 23 — A stark assessment of terrorism trends by American intelligence agencies has found that the American invasion and occupation of Iraq has helped spawn a new generation of Islamic radicalism and that the overall terrorist threat has grown since the Sept. 11 attacks. The classified National Intelligence Estimate attributes a more direct role to the Iraq war in fueling radicalism than that presented either in recent White House documents or in a report released Wednesday by the House Intelligence Committee, according to several officials in Washington involved in preparing the assessment or who have read the final document. The intelligence estimate, completed in April, is the first formal appraisal of global terrorism by United States intelligence agencies since the Iraq war began, and represents a consensus view of the 16 disparate spy services inside government. Titled "Trends in Global Terrorism: Implications for the United States,'' it asserts that Islamic radicalism, rather than being in retreat, has metastasized and spread across the globe. An opening section of the report, "Indicators of the Spread of the Global Jihadist Movement," cites the Iraq war as a reason for the diffusion of jihad ideology. Whole article HERE User "mudcat4" passwd "mudcat" |
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24 Sep 06 - 10:27 PM (#1842555) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Old Guy French Intel Says Bin Laden May Be Dead PARIS, Sept. 23 (UPI) -- A Saudi intelligence source told UPI Saturday al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden is 'very ill' while a Paris newspaper claimed the terrorist leader is dead. The French regional daily, l`Est Republicain, said a memo leaked from France`s counter-espionage agency says bin Laden died last month of typhoid fever in Pakistan. No official sources have confirmed the terror leader`s death. 'We are not saying he is dead, but there is a lot of truth in the report,' the Saudi intelligence source said, adding, 'bin Laden was very ill these past few weeks. 'There is no way we can prove that bin Laden is dead until we can see the body,' he said, (but) 'A good portion of what is in the report is true.' |
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25 Sep 06 - 04:20 AM (#1842657) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: ard mhacha One certain fact is beyond dispute, from Bush and his string pullers first came into power the world is in chaos, what a parcel of stupid, greedy, blundering fools. Away back,, many a Thread ago, lots of people warned of the stupidity of invading Iraq, we were right, can anyone now question our judgment?, only fools and Teribus. |
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25 Sep 06 - 08:06 AM (#1842755) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Mr Yellow We've seen it all before. Northern Island is/was reputedly a religious conflict. The truth is that fanatics hijack religion and use grievances as currency. That's human nature. What were the crusades? Where are the gun runners in Ireland now? Converting farm diesel into regular fuel and cheating custom & excise. It is called a peace dividend - they were unruly before, they are unruly now. They don't really care about the downtrodden - they do the treading. They live rich. |
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25 Sep 06 - 09:56 AM (#1842850) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: GUEST "The truth is that fanatics hijack religion and use grievances as currency." That is a lovely turn of phrase. |
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25 Sep 06 - 10:01 AM (#1842856) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Greg F. Retired officers to criticize Rumsfeld By DAVID ESPO, Associated Press Last updated: 7:15 a.m., Monday, September 25, 2006 WASHINGTON -- Retired military officers on Monday are expected to bluntly accuse Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld of bungling the war in Iraq, saying U.S. troops were sent to fight without the best equipment and that critical facts were hidden from the public. "I believe that Secretary Rumsfeld and others in the administration did not tell the American people the truth for fear of losing support for the war in Iraq," retired Maj. Gen. John R. S. Batiste said in remarks prepared for a hearing by the Senate Democratic Policy Committee. A second witness, retired Maj. Gen. Paul Eaton, is expected to assess Rumsfeld as "incompetent strategically, operationally and tactically ...." Since last week, a government-produced National Intelligence Estimate became public that concluded the war has helped create a new generation of Islamic radicalism and that the overall terrorist threat has grown since the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. It is unusual for retired military officers to criticize the Pentagon while military operations are under way, particularly at a public event likely to draw widespread media attention. But Batiste, Eaton and retired Col. Paul X. Hammes were unsparing in remarks that suggested deep anger at the way the military had been treated. All three served in Iraq, and Batiste also was senior military assistant to then-Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz. Batiste said Rumsfeld at one point threatened to fire the next person who mentioned the need for a postwar plan in Iraq. Batiste said if full consideration had been given to the requirements for war, it's likely the U.S. would have kept its focus on Afghanistan, "not fueled Islamic fundamentalism across the globe, and not created more enemies than there were insurgents." |
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25 Sep 06 - 10:03 AM (#1842858) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Wolfgang If it's true (small chance I'd say with the present information available), I'm looking forward to Al Qaeda's official communique how he died a martyr's death of typhoid. Wolfgang |
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25 Sep 06 - 10:04 AM (#1842860) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: GUEST He contracted it while giving mouth-to-mouth to a 12-year-old boy. Let them spin that! |
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25 Sep 06 - 10:18 AM (#1842871) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Dave (the ancient mariner) Are you sure it was mouth to mouth? |
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25 Sep 06 - 03:23 PM (#1843092) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: GUEST Good point. |
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25 Sep 06 - 06:13 PM (#1843217) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: akenaton Bin Laden is probably still alive, but of no real importance to the jihadist movement, which due to Western foreign policy carries its own momenmtum. When Blair or Bush are pressed on the effects of their foreign policy regarding terrorism, they inevitably cite the attack on the World Trades Centre as "terrorism which occurred before the Iraq War" As if the WTC attack was the start of all our terrorist problems. Nothing could be further from the truth, Anglo/American foreign policy inthe Middle East has been radicalising Muslems for decades and US support for Israeli suppression of the Palistinians is the greatest recruiting sergeant for fundamentalist Islam. Bin Laden has written that it was US support fot the Israeli bombing of Beirut in 1982 that first radicalised him... "I still remember the blood -torn limbs,the women and children massacred. Houses were being destroyed and tower blocks collapsing. As I looked on the destroyed towers in Lebanon, it occurred to me to punish the oppressor in kind, by destroying towers in America." Neither should we assume that attempting to spread our brand of "democracy" in the Middle East will isolate the Islamists, as evidence from Lebanon, Iran, Iraq, Palistine ect proves that given the option, newly radicalised Muslems will choose fundamentalist candidates over secularists. all Terrorism is disgusting, whether perpetrated by rag-tag militias or powerful countries like UK/US, but although we condemn, it does not follow that we should not analyse accurately the reasons for that terrorism. Many on this forum have made no attempt to analyse. Our only hope is to reverse our foreign policy, get our invasion forces out and start to make some credible progress on an Israeli/Palistinian settlement...Ake |
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25 Sep 06 - 06:39 PM (#1843233) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Little Hawk We are still fighting a war in Iraq, Pauline, for one very simple reason: we are still IN Iraq. Same goes for Afghanistan. |
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25 Sep 06 - 11:29 PM (#1843388) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: GUEST "Bin Laden has written that it was US support fot the Israeli bombing of Beirut in 1982 that first radicalised him... "I still remember the blood -torn limbs,the women and children massacred. Houses were being destroyed and tower blocks collapsing." First Lebanon War, began June 6, 1982, when the Israel Defense Forces invaded southern Lebanon. The Government of Israel gave a green light for the invasion as a response to the assassination attempt against Israel's ambassador to the United Kingdom, Shlomo Argov by Fatah - Revolutionary Council and to artillery attacks launched by the Palestine Liberation Organization against populated areas in northern Israel. |
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26 Sep 06 - 02:08 AM (#1843437) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: GUEST "Batiste said if full consideration had been given to the requirements for war, it's likely the U.S. would have kept its focus on Afghanistan, "not fueled Islamic fundamentalism across the globe, and not created more enemies than there were insurgents." Here, here. |
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26 Sep 06 - 05:03 AM (#1843496) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Wolfgang Quite likely he is alive. Why? (1) Al Qaeda usually did announce the death of leaders within a few days. With each day without hearing from them, the news gets less likely. (2) Usually, after the death of eminent Al Qaeda leaders the number of E-mail within that community has increased sizably. The services monitoring these E-mails do not see an increase this time. Who is responsible for the rumour? Surely not the Bush government as some narrow-minded Bushists (whatever happens lets talk about Bush) speculated here and in another thread. (1) The way via a French provincial newspaper is not likely for a Bush plot. (2) These news do not help Bush in the midterm-elections for they only focus one more the attention of the people to his stupid policy of invading Iraq instead of making a thorough job in Afghanistan. So who did start the rumour (without forgetting that sometimes rumours start without anyone plotting)? (1) Some secret service with the intention to make BL issue a hasty denial and perhaps this was indicating where he may be. Or, (2) Al Qaeda, for in the past rumours of his death or illness have accompanied as a smokescreen a change of location of BL. Wolfgang (who'd love to be proved wrong here) |
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26 Sep 06 - 12:44 PM (#1843803) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: ard mhacha That reference to Bush not concentating on Afghanistan and blundering into Iraq reminds me of Adolf Hitler`s similar blunder by invading the Soviet Union, learning from history would be the last thing on the Bush mind. |
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26 Sep 06 - 01:21 PM (#1843849) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Greg F. WHAT Bush mind? |
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26 Sep 06 - 01:30 PM (#1843863) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Big Al Whittle I wonder if we could get Cilla Black to helicopter into his back garden in Gateshead with a reunion present from his long lost cousin George...sounds like a lorra fun! |
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27 Sep 06 - 01:25 PM (#1844205) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: GUEST Country is not in chaos, says Talabani Los Angeles Times-Washington Pos New York: Last Wednesday, Newsweek-Washington Post's Lally Weymouth interviewed Iraqi President Jalal Talabani in New York. Q. What happened in your meeting with President Bush? We told him our progress in trade, the economy, training the army ... and we asked him to provide the Iraqi army with the necessary arms for improving the capacity of the army. We also thanked him for his continuous support of Iraq. What did the president say to you? That he will continue to support the Iraqi people and will remain there until we ask him to leave. Reportedly the US government is losing faith in Prime Minister [Nouri Al] Maliki. President Bush assured us that he will support the Al Maliki government. We assured him that all Iraqi political parties support Al Maliki. He has done many important things for Iraq. When should US troops leave? In seven provinces, the American army has withdrawn. The Iraqi army is replacing American forces in many cities. We hope that at the end of this year we will be able to control 12 provinces. We will remain in need of the American and coalition forces until we've trained our army and will be able to face terrorism and defeat it. How long will that be? I think within two years we will be able to train our army and have the capacity to face terrorism. ... The presence of American forces even a symbolic one will frighten those who are trying to interfere in our affairs. Are you talking about Iran? Our prime minister just came back from Iran. He got good promises from Iran on security promises that they will never permit any kind of interference in the internal affairs of Iraq. Do you believe that? Our prime minister tells me he got real and serious promises. Let us see. What do you think of the popular theory that Iraq should split into three parts? I don't think so. Iraq will not break up into three parts. Iraq will remain united we will have a united, federal Iraq. Kurds are struggling for the unity of Iraq Sunnis and Shiites, the same. There are differences among the Shiites and Sunnis which must be resolved, but not about the partition of Iraq. Would you welcome US bases in Kurdistan? Yes, they are welcome. Kurdistan wants the Americans to stay. In some places Sunnis want the Americans to stay Sunnis think the main danger is coming from Iran now. Will the US put bases in Kurdistan? I think we will be in need of American forces for a long time even two military bases to prevent foreign interference. I don't ask to have 100,000 American soldiers 10,000 soldiers and two air bases would be enough. |
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27 Sep 06 - 02:27 PM (#1844288) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: ard mhacha A report today on BBC TV from US inteligence agencies has stated that, "the war in Iraq is fueling a growing threat of global terrorism and shaping a new generation of terrorist leaders". Why didn`t these people latch on to the Mudacat for this obvious conclusion, a long time ago. |
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27 Sep 06 - 02:50 PM (#1844318) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Dave (the ancient mariner) AP INTERVIEW: Iraq is getting more respect now that it has an elected government, foreign minister says The Associated Press Published: September 26, 2006 UNITED NATIONS Iraq is getting more respect now that it has an elected government. Instead of just diplomatic niceties, Iraq was a full participant in dozens of meetings at the U.N. General Assembly. "Now it's business," said Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari. As the annual meeting of the world's leaders heads to its finale on Wednesday, the Iraqi minister said that since he started attending in 2003 he has never been busier. "This is a good sign because Iraq really, despite the bad news, the negative news coming out of Baghdad, is moving steadily toward a functional state," he said in an interview Monday with the Associated Press. Zebari recalled that as foreign minister first in the U.S.-apponted Iraqi Governing Council and then in the transitional government, there would be "nice words, nice exchanges" on the fringes of the General Assembly and other international meeting. But since Iraq's elections and the selection in April of a constitutional government, "the days of diplomatic niceties" are over. With a smile of satisfaction, Zebari said, "it's more business we are in fact discussing," and he reeled off examples. On the sidelines of the General Assembly, he said, "we had a good meeting of Iraq's neighboring countries ... and we agreed on some important steps." First, Zebari said, Iran demanded that future meetings of Iraq's neighboring countries had to be "with the full consent, approval and need of the Iraqi government" which was not the case in the past. "Second, we demanded that the next meeting of Iraq's neighboring countries take place in Baghdad, as a sign to stand with the Iraqi people, to show solidarity and support, as the Arab foreign ministers did when they went to Beirut during the war... And they approved it which was a good thing," he said. At a meeting with Syria's Foreign Minister Walid Moallem, attended by Iraqi President Jalil Talabani, Zebari said "we had a very frank, open discussions about how to go forward." The Iraqis told Moallem "if you want to improve relations and show goodwill ... one of the simplest steps is for you to come and visit Baghdad ... because in the past three years, almost each and every Iraqi official has visited you, and no Syrian officials have come to Baghdad," the foreign minister said. "It will help smooth, let's say, relations, and we will welcome you. You'll be respected in Iraq by all Iraqis." What was the Syrian minister's response? "He said he accepted the idea, I think, and we will wait to see when that takes place," Zebari said. At every meeting, Zebari said, he delivered the same appeal — to help stabilize the country and end the upsurge in violence that many say has pushed the country to the brink of civil war. Iraq is "the key to stability in the region," he said. "That's why we have been calling on all the parties, all the states, that it is in you interest to help us to stabilize the situation. Failure in Iraq will affect you directly. Security vacuum in Iraq will not be any benefit." Zebari accused some of Iraq's neighbors — whom he did not name — of fomenting violence and terrorist acts, and of putting short-term interests and a desire to settle "certain scores" ahead of long-term peace and stability in the region. Recently in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, there was a meeting of interior ministers of Iraq and its neighboring countries, and they signed a security protocol to coordinate and exchange information and set up hotlines, he said. Despite this, Zebari said, "I would say unfortunately, some of our neighbors have not been helpful." On the eve of the General Assembly, 31 countries attended a meeting of the Compact for Iraq, a five-year plan to ensure Iraq's government has funds to survive and enact key political and economic reforms. Zebari called it "an important international event" but said that unless Iraq improves security and accelerates political reconciliation "it would be extremely difficult to attract foreign investments or foreign companies." "That is the challenge — and the government is committed to do that," he said. Nonetheless, Zebari said, despite the instability and violence, the new Iraqi government has taken other actions that demonstrate its authority. "We wanted to help the Jordanian government and economy, so we signed an oil agreement to provide them with crude oil at preferential prices to support the Jordanian need for fuel," he said. "This really was an eye-opener to many countries in the region that despite everything we are going through, Iraq is still capable, able to help." When the Israeli-Hezbollah war began in Lebanon in July, Zebari said Iraq donated US$35 million (€27.6 million) in emergency aid to the Lebanese government which "embarrassed many other Arab countries to raise their bid." Iraq has also reached agreements with Turkey to boost trade and open new border crossings, he said, and it will sign a trade agreement with the European Union. "Even with the Iranians, we've signed an oil agreement for us to give them crude for one of their refineries which is close to Basra, while they will compensate us in the Gulf, to increase our export," Zebari said. UNITED NATIONS Iraq is getting more respect now that it has an elected government. Instead of just diplomatic niceties, Iraq was a full participant in dozens of meetings at the U.N. General Assembly. "Now it's business," said Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari. As the annual meeting of the world's leaders heads to its finale on Wednesday, the Iraqi minister said that since he started attending in 2003 he has never been busier. "This is a good sign because Iraq really, despite the bad news, the negative news coming out of Baghdad, is moving steadily toward a functional state," he said in an interview Monday with the Associated Press. Zebari recalled that as foreign minister first in the U.S.-apponted Iraqi Governing Council and then in the transitional government, there would be "nice words, nice exchanges" on the fringes of the General Assembly and other international meeting. But since Iraq's elections and the selection in April of a constitutional government, "the days of diplomatic niceties" are over. With a smile of satisfaction, Zebari said, "it's more business we are in fact discussing," and he reeled off examples. On the sidelines of the General Assembly, he said, "we had a good meeting of Iraq's neighboring countries ... and we agreed on some important steps." First, Zebari said, Iran demanded that future meetings of Iraq's neighboring countries had to be "with the full consent, approval and need of the Iraqi government" which was not the case in the past. "Second, we demanded that the next meeting of Iraq's neighboring countries take place in Baghdad, as a sign to stand with the Iraqi people, to show solidarity and support, as the Arab foreign ministers did when they went to Beirut during the war... And they approved it which was a good thing," he said. At a meeting with Syria's Foreign Minister Walid Moallem, attended by Iraqi President Jalil Talabani, Zebari said "we had a very frank, open discussions about how to go forward." The Iraqis told Moallem "if you want to improve relations and show goodwill ... one of the simplest steps is for you to come and visit Baghdad ... because in the past three years, almost each and every Iraqi official has visited you, and no Syrian officials have come to Baghdad," the foreign minister said. "It will help smooth, let's say, relations, and we will welcome you. You'll be respected in Iraq by all Iraqis." What was the Syrian minister's response? "He said he accepted the idea, I think, and we will wait to see when that takes place," Zebari said. At every meeting, Zebari said, he delivered the same appeal — to help stabilize the country and end the upsurge in violence that many say has pushed the country to the brink of civil war. Iraq is "the key to stability in the region," he said. "That's why we have been calling on all the parties, all the states, that it is in you interest to help us to stabilize the situation. Failure in Iraq will affect you directly. Security vacuum in Iraq will not be any benefit." Zebari accused some of Iraq's neighbors — whom he did not name — of fomenting violence and terrorist acts, and of putting short-term interests and a desire to settle "certain scores" ahead of long-term peace and stability in the region. Recently in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, there was a meeting of interior ministers of Iraq and its neighboring countries, and they signed a security protocol to coordinate and exchange information and set up hotlines, he said. Despite this, Zebari said, "I would say unfortunately, some of our neighbors have not been helpful." On the eve of the General Assembly, 31 countries attended a meeting of the Compact for Iraq, a five-year plan to ensure Iraq's government has funds to survive and enact key political and economic reforms. Zebari called it "an important international event" but said that unless Iraq improves security and accelerates political reconciliation "it would be extremely difficult to attract foreign investments or foreign companies." "That is the challenge — and the government is committed to do that," he said. Nonetheless, Zebari said, despite the instability and violence, the new Iraqi government has taken other actions that demonstrate its authority. "We wanted to help the Jordanian government and economy, so we signed an oil agreement to provide them with crude oil at preferential prices to support the Jordanian need for fuel," he said. "This really was an eye-opener to many countries in the region that despite everything we are going through, Iraq is still capable, able to help." When the Israeli-Hezbollah war began in Lebanon in July, Zebari said Iraq donated US$35 million (€27.6 million) in emergency aid to the Lebanese government which "embarrassed many other Arab countries to raise their bid." Iraq has also reached agreements with Turkey to boost trade and open new border crossings, he said, and it will sign a trade agreement with the European Union. "Even with the Iranians, we've signed an oil agreement for us to give them crude for one of their refineries which is close to Basra, while they will compensate us in the Gulf, to increase our export," Zebari said. UNITED NATIONS Iraq is getting more respect now that it has an elected government. Instead of just diplomatic niceties, Iraq was a full participant in dozens of meetings at the U.N. General Assembly. "Now it's business," said Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari. As the annual meeting of the world's leaders heads to its finale on Wednesday, the Iraqi minister said that since he started attending in 2003 he has never been busier. "This is a good sign because Iraq really, despite the bad news, the negative news coming out of Baghdad, is moving steadily toward a functional state," he said in an interview Monday with the Associated Press. Zebari recalled that as foreign minister first in the U.S.-apponted Iraqi Governing Council and then in the transitional government, there would be "nice words, nice exchanges" on the fringes of the General Assembly and other international meeting. But since Iraq's elections and the selection in April of a constitutional government, "the days of diplomatic niceties" are over. With a smile of satisfaction, Zebari said, "it's more business we are in fact discussing," and he reeled off examples. On the sidelines of the General Assembly, he said, "we had a good meeting of Iraq's neighboring countries ... and we agreed on some important steps." First, Zebari said, Iran demanded that future meetings of Iraq's neighboring countries had to be "with the full consent, approval and need of the Iraqi government" which was not the case in the past. "Second, we demanded that the next meeting of Iraq's neighboring countries take place in Baghdad, as a sign to stand with the Iraqi people, to show solidarity and support, as the Arab foreign ministers did when they went to Beirut during the war... And they approved it which was a good thing," he said. At a meeting with Syria's Foreign Minister Walid Moallem, attended by Iraqi President Jalil Talabani, Zebari said "we had a very frank, open discussions about how to go forward." The Iraqis told Moallem "if you want to improve relations and show goodwill ... one of the simplest steps is for you to come and visit Baghdad ... because in the past three years, almost each and every Iraqi official has visited you, and no Syrian officials have come to Baghdad," the foreign minister said. "It will help smooth, let's say, relations, and we will welcome you. You'll be respected in Iraq by all Iraqis." What was the Syrian minister's response? "He said he accepted the idea, I think, and we will wait to see when that takes place," Zebari said. At every meeting, Zebari said, he delivered the same appeal — to help stabilize the country and end the upsurge in violence that many say has pushed the country to the brink of civil war. Iraq is "the key to stability in the region," he said. "That's why we have been calling on all the parties, all the states, that it is in you interest to help us to stabilize the situation. Failure in Iraq will affect you directly. Security vacuum in Iraq will not be any benefit." Zebari accused some of Iraq's neighbors — whom he did not name — of fomenting violence and terrorist acts, and of putting short-term interests and a desire to settle "certain scores" ahead of long-term peace and stability in the region. Recently in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, there was a meeting of interior ministers of Iraq and its neighboring countries, and they signed a security protocol to coordinate and exchange information and set up hotlines, he said. Despite this, Zebari said, "I would say unfortunately, some of our neighbors have not been helpful." On the eve of the General Assembly, 31 countries attended a meeting of the Compact for Iraq, a five-year plan to ensure Iraq's government has funds to survive and enact key political and economic reforms. Zebari called it "an important international event" but said that unless Iraq improves security and accelerates political reconciliation "it would be extremely difficult to attract foreign investments or foreign companies." "That is the challenge — and the government is committed to do that," he said. Nonetheless, Zebari said, despite the instability and violence, the new Iraqi government has taken other actions that demonstrate its authority. "We wanted to help the Jordanian government and economy, so we signed an oil agreement to provide them with crude oil at preferential prices to support the Jordanian need for fuel," he said. "This really was an eye-opener to many countries in the region that despite everything we are going through, Iraq is still capable, able to help." When the Israeli-Hezbollah war began in Lebanon in July, Zebari said Iraq donated US$35 million (€27.6 million) in emergency aid to the Lebanese government which "embarrassed many other Arab countries to raise their bid." Iraq has also reached agreements with Turkey to boost trade and open new border crossings, he said, and it will sign a trade agreement with the European Union. "Even with the Iranians, we've signed an oil agreement for us to give them crude for one of their refineries which is close to Basra, while they will compensate us in the Gulf, to increase our export," Zebari said. UNITED NATIONS Iraq is getting more respect now that it has an elected government. Instead of just diplomatic niceties, Iraq was a full participant in dozens of meetings at the U.N. General Assembly. "Now it's business," said Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari. As the annual meeting of the world's leaders heads to its finale on Wednesday, the Iraqi minister said that since he started attending in 2003 he has never been busier. "This is a good sign because Iraq really, despite the bad news, the negative news coming out of Baghdad, is moving steadily toward a functional state," he said in an interview Monday with the Associated Press. Zebari recalled that as foreign minister first in the U.S.-apponted Iraqi Governing Council and then in the transitional government, there would be "nice words, nice exchanges" on the fringes of the General Assembly and other international meeting. But since Iraq's elections and the selection in April of a constitutional government, "the days of diplomatic niceties" are over. With a smile of satisfaction, Zebari said, "it's more business we are in fact discussing," and he reeled off examples. On the sidelines of the General Assembly, he said, "we had a good meeting of Iraq's neighboring countries ... and we agreed on some important steps." First, Zebari said, Iran demanded that future meetings of Iraq's neighboring countries had to be "with the full consent, approval and need of the Iraqi government" which was not the case in the past. "Second, we demanded that the next meeting of Iraq's neighboring countries take place in Baghdad, as a sign to stand with the Iraqi people, to show solidarity and support, as the Arab foreign ministers did when they went to Beirut during the war... And they approved it which was a good thing," he said. At a meeting with Syria's Foreign Minister Walid Moallem, attended by Iraqi President Jalil Talabani, Zebari said "we had a very frank, open discussions about how to go forward." The Iraqis told Moallem "if you want to improve relations and show goodwill ... one of the simplest steps is for you to come and visit Baghdad ... because in the past three years, almost each and every Iraqi official has visited you, and no Syrian officials have come to Baghdad," the foreign minister said. "It will help smooth, let's say, relations, and we will welcome you. You'll be respected in Iraq by all Iraqis." What was the Syrian minister's response? "He said he accepted the idea, I think, and we will wait to see when that takes place," Zebari said. At every meeting, Zebari said, he delivered the same appeal — to help stabilize the country and end the upsurge in violence that many say has pushed the country to the brink of civil war. Iraq is "the key to stability in the region," he said. "That's why we have been calling on all the parties, all the states, that it is in you interest to help us to stabilize the situation. Failure in Iraq will affect you directly. Security vacuum in Iraq will not be any benefit." Zebari accused some of Iraq's neighbors — whom he did not name — of fomenting violence and terrorist acts, and of putting short-term interests and a desire to settle "certain scores" ahead of long-term peace and stability in the region. Recently in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, there was a meeting of interior ministers of Iraq and its neighboring countries, and they signed a security protocol to coordinate and exchange information and set up hotlines, he said. Despite this, Zebari said, "I would say unfortunately, some of our neighbors have not been helpful." On the eve of the General Assembly, 31 countries attended a meeting of the Compact for Iraq, a five-year plan to ensure Iraq's government has funds to survive and enact key political and economic reforms. Zebari called it "an important international event" but said that unless Iraq improves security and accelerates political reconciliation "it would be extremely difficult to attract foreign investments or foreign companies." "That is the challenge — and the government is committed to do that," he said. Nonetheless, Zebari said, despite the instability and violence, the new Iraqi government has taken other actions that demonstrate its authority. "We wanted to help the Jordanian government and economy, so we signed an oil agreement to provide them with crude oil at preferential prices to support the Jordanian need for fuel," he said. "This really was an eye-opener to many countries in the region that despite everything we are going through, Iraq is still capable, able to help." When the Israeli-Hezbollah war began in Lebanon in July, Zebari said Iraq donated US$35 million (€27.6 million) in emergency aid to the Lebanese government which "embarrassed many other Arab countries to raise their bid." Iraq has also reached agreements with Turkey to boost trade and open new border crossings, he said, and it will sign a trade agreement with the European Union. "Even with the Iranians, we've signed an oil agreement for us to give them crude for one of their refineries which is close to Basra, while they will compensate us in the Gulf, to increase our export," Zebari said. |
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27 Sep 06 - 04:28 PM (#1844417) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: GUEST Oh dear Dave has finally cracked. |
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27 Sep 06 - 06:03 PM (#1844506) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: GUEST,IBO I DIDNT KNOW THAT DEAD OR ALIVE HAD A SONG OUT CALLED BIN LADEN.I BET IT BOMBED IN THE CHARTS |
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27 Sep 06 - 06:52 PM (#1844555) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: akenaton Dave must be about the only person left who sincerely believes the war in Iraq is achieving anything positive. But the amount of cut and paste crap which he is allowed to contribute is a disgrace. I have no problem with people who hold a different point of view to my own and am interested to hear their reasoned arguments, but these screeds of second hand distortions and spin serve no purpose other than to show the gullibility of the poster....Ake |
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28 Sep 06 - 08:10 AM (#1844892) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Wolfgang I see, if Greg posts an Associated Press article that's a valuable contribution to the discussion, but if Dave posts an Associated Press article it shows his gullibility. Wolfgang |
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28 Sep 06 - 09:33 AM (#1844977) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: GUEST We have ways of making you read, |
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28 Sep 06 - 04:41 PM (#1845349) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: akenaton Come on Wolfgang there is a vast difference between Dave's and Greg's use of cut and paste. Occasionally it is helpful to use cut and paste to clarify some point you are trying to make. I have done so myself from time to time, but Dave uses cut and paste like a blunt instrument. A weapon to batter his opponents into submission. A tactic no doubt picked up from the late unlamented Teribus....Ake |
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28 Sep 06 - 04:56 PM (#1845367) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: GUEST That`s Wolfgang he swims with the tide. |
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28 Sep 06 - 06:20 PM (#1845453) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Old Guy He's a dead skunk in the middle of the road. I hope. |
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29 Sep 06 - 04:12 AM (#1845754) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: GUEST Who is?. |
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29 Sep 06 - 09:06 AM (#1845929) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Greg F. Old guy. Stinkin' to high heaven. |
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06 Oct 06 - 12:48 PM (#1852085) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Old Guy Roll up yer window and hold yer nose. |
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07 Oct 06 - 07:19 AM (#1852631) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Teribus "late unlamented Teribus....Ake" The rumours of my demise have been greatly exaggerated. As for Bin Laden being dead or alive? The issue is irrelevant and has been since he was forced into hiding four years ago. As for Iraq, people like Ake refuse to acknowledge that it was NOT GWB, or his administration, who identified Iraq as being likely to pose the greatest indirect threat to the US. That was the evaluation carried out by US Intelligence Services during the last term of the Clinton Administration. Post 9/11 it was the joint house security committee tasked with evaluating threat potential against the US that re-afirmed that earlier evaluation. On receiving the advice of this Committee, did GWB immediately opt for unilateral military action, as Clinton did in 1998? No he did not he took his case to the United Nations, who did what they do best - Nothing (Rwanda, Bosnia, Darfur - all classic examples of UN resolve and determination). Current UN mandated operations in Afghanistan and in Iraq are both legal and necessary. Have terrorist attacks around the world increased or decreased? Sorry Ake, they have decreased. Is the world a safer place to live in? The findings of a UN sponsored study by Uppsala and Vancouver Universities show that the world is a safer place to live the periods used for comparison were from the end of the Second World War up until the collapse of Communist Soviet Russia and the period since. Ake continues to trot out the same inaccurate, incorrect and ill informed twaddle that I have challenged in the past - Having done so, I see no need in repeating the exercise. |
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07 Oct 06 - 08:16 AM (#1852665) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Dave (the ancient mariner) Actually I post information to allow people to make up their own minds, rather than be bullied into thinking in one direction like you do lad. Big difference, persuaded by reason and truth or argued to death by idiots?.... etc etc... Nuff said. |
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07 Oct 06 - 08:52 AM (#1852682) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: ard mhacha A report on Channel a [UK] showed the citizens of Baghdad prisoners in their own homesm there is mass emigration to Syria and Jordan for those who can afford to get out. The reporter`s interview with Baghdad citizens found that many previously in opposition to Saddam Hussein would willingly go back to that period before the US invasion,complete despair with little hope of an end to the conflict was the finding. |
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07 Oct 06 - 09:36 AM (#1852705) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Divis Sweeney Yes watched that report ard. Voices on the ground are rarely listened to. |
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07 Oct 06 - 05:33 PM (#1852962) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: akenaton Where have you been Teribus??...Visiting another galaxy perhaps? |
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08 Oct 06 - 11:31 AM (#1853304) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Ron Davies Teribus-- Sorry, you're behind the times. These days Clinton is not being criticized for immediately taking direct "unlateral military action" in 1998---but for not doing so. Accused of this by such authoritative sources as TV docudramas--and you know they're always totally objective. It was fascinating to hear your view on the subject. But welcome back anyway. . |
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08 Oct 06 - 01:05 PM (#1853346) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Ron Davies That's "unilateral". And, Teribus, please remember what you said today when you're tempted to tell us how Bill Clinton did nothing to combat al Qaeda. Thanks so much. |
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08 Oct 06 - 01:40 PM (#1853358) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Ebbie Speaking of al Quaeda KABUL, Afghanistan - NATO's top commander in Afghanistan said Sunday the country was at a tipping point and warned Afghans would likely switch their allegiance to resurgent Taliban militants if there are no visible improvements in people's lives in the next six months. |
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08 Oct 06 - 11:43 PM (#1853728) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: GUEST He's either dead or sipping rum tall drinks on some private island where he can't be found. Otherwise he couldn't resist showing his face every time a large number of his enemies were killed. Religion is the most destructive thing ever invented. |
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09 Oct 06 - 02:26 PM (#1854245) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Ron Davies Wrong. In the 20th century, by far the most people were killed by Stalin, Hitler and Mao. Which religion was at fault? |
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15 Oct 06 - 03:56 AM (#1859198) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Old Guy It's been over two weeks since this story broke and no tape from Bin Laden. He must be dead. |
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15 Oct 06 - 04:22 PM (#1859604) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: GUEST Garbage bin Laden to the top with this shit. |
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16 Oct 06 - 12:06 AM (#1859971) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Old Guy Pol Pot gave Mao, Stalin and Hitler a run for their money in the criminally-insane-dictator category. During his four-year Khmer Rouge regime in Cambodia, an estimated 1.7 million to 2 million people died at his and his henchmen's urging. Mao Tse-tung's policies and actions led to the deaths of nearly 77 million of his countrymen, surpassing those killed by Nazi Party founder Adolf Hitler and Soviet Premier Josef Stalin. Mao's butchery "exceeds the 61,911,000 murdered by the Soviet Union 1917-1987, with Hitler far behind at 20,946,000 wiped out (from) 1933-1945," he said. The Chinese communist leader's toll is higher than the 34.1 million combat deaths in "all wars between 1900 and 1987," including World Wars I and II, Vietnam, Korea, and the Mexican and Russian Revolutions. |
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16 Oct 06 - 12:10 AM (#1859974) Subject: RE: BS: Bin Laden dead or alive? From: Ron Davies QED |
