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18 Oct 06 - 12:07 PM (#1862264) Subject: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Paul Burke Whale hunting is being stepped up by Iceland, apparently because they are desperate to sell the stuff to Japan. I think they've more to lose in tourism by getting the image of environmental vandals than they can gain by exports. Skarpi? |
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18 Oct 06 - 12:46 PM (#1862317) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Barry Finn Thanks for the heads up Skarpi, it's a shame. I would think that Iceland would loose more than some of it's tourist trade, probably loose some portion of it's exports (which I'm ignorant of what is exported) as well due to international protest & boycott. Probably loose a lot more than they can gain from the taking of 9 fin whales & 30 minke whales per year. I also can't see that the economy is dependant upon the sale of that amount of whale meat. Japan may also suffer by the buying of the whale meat by attracting international anger, even though they still do buy it now. And the excuse that they're eating up the fish stock, might as well kill off all the top feeders. That'll just leave us bottom feeders to fight for what's left. Best of luck in Iceland. Barry |
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18 Oct 06 - 12:46 PM (#1862320) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: John MacKenzie I vote for a ban on Icelandic products, like ice, and snow, but not Brennevin! Seriously though I have only one word to say about that. BASTARDS G. |
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18 Oct 06 - 01:35 PM (#1862356) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Ernest Yes, it is a shame. But don`t blame Skarpi, he works for a Swedish furniture retailer (you all know which one....). Just imagine Skarpi selling a table leg labeled "Billy" to Captain Ahab as a replacement for the whalebone one that is not pc anymore... Regards Ernest |
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18 Oct 06 - 01:50 PM (#1862367) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Rapparee Right. And let's include Norway and its oil, too. And Japan. If you do one, do all. |
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18 Oct 06 - 01:58 PM (#1862373) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Barry Finn I don`t blame Skarpi, I hope it wasn't taken that way. Actually he was thanked for his heads up on the matter. If he's to blame for what Iceland does then we in the US are all damned to hell. Barry |
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18 Oct 06 - 04:24 PM (#1862522) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: GUEST,ibo FINN was that a joke name.Personally,i think we should all stop blubbing about it. |
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18 Oct 06 - 04:26 PM (#1862525) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: John MacKenzie As hysterically funny a name as ibo I guess. G |
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18 Oct 06 - 04:35 PM (#1862542) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: GUEST,ibo ok GIOK? |
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18 Oct 06 - 04:39 PM (#1862554) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: John MacKenzie Well it's a bit juvenile to mock someone when their name has unlooked for associations. |
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18 Oct 06 - 04:41 PM (#1862557) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: GUEST,ibo I only joke,i love everybody,even people with silly names. |
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18 Oct 06 - 05:04 PM (#1862585) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: katlaughing Um, guys, our Skarpi hasn't posted to this thread. It was Paul Burke who started it. I will be interested to see how Skarpi feels about it, though. I can't stomach the thought of it, at all, so I hope it is stopped. kat |
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18 Oct 06 - 05:58 PM (#1862645) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Alan Day It is terrible that these wonderful graceful creatures of this Earth who are so trusting they follow boats ,should be slaughtered.I just cannot watch when the harpoon enters and the sea is turned red. We move Heaven and Earth if these poor whales enter our rivers to try and save them. Unite against this killing ,there is no need for it. Al |
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18 Oct 06 - 06:23 PM (#1862668) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Rapparee Apparently the only place it can be exported TO is the Faroe Islands. Not much of a market.... |
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18 Oct 06 - 06:41 PM (#1862692) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: GUEST,ibo ive never seen whale meat in our local iceland,maybe its all in safeways |
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18 Oct 06 - 07:01 PM (#1862712) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Bill D If someone discovered a cure for acne that was made of the fins of whales, the ocean would be full of idiots in boats, looking for the last one! The Japanese will NOT back down...they **want** whales...they think it's their right to **have** whales, even if there is only one left! |
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18 Oct 06 - 09:32 PM (#1862815) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Richard Bridge Did you hear about the castaway's diet? Oh no, it's.... WHale meat again, don't know how, don't know when.... (Ducks) |
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18 Oct 06 - 10:18 PM (#1862829) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: GUEST,Marks What else can you do when you live in bloody Iceland? Its not like they have anything interesting to hunt, like Morris Dancers or Banjo players. |
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19 Oct 06 - 12:02 AM (#1862869) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: GUEST Currently Iceland hunts minkes for "scientific research". The Japanese are great whale scientists too. I hope that between them both they are able to develop some effective aphrodesiacs. Getting the rhino-horn stuff is almost impossible now. |
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19 Oct 06 - 12:23 AM (#1862873) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: John O'L Oops. 12.02 was me. |
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19 Oct 06 - 02:51 AM (#1862908) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: skarpi hmmmmm BASTARDS? Bloody Iceland ?? I am hurt thanks Giok and Marks, and by the way its okei for UK to have the sellafield open for nuclear stuff and but out to sea ??and I did not say Bloddy England ? and its okei for US and Canada to fish whales along with Japan and Norway ........ Just so you know : MOST OFF THE ICELANDIC PEOPLEARE AGAINST WHALE HUNTING,ITS ONLY THE COVERMENT AND SMALL CROUP OF PEOPLE WHO WILL HAVE A LITTLE WORK FROM THIS FISHING WHO ARE DOING THIS A, and they have the power ......... I AM AGAINST THIS becouse we do not need to fish whales for food we have enough of other food for the nation . what ever you think of action of a nation you people in the big world always blame everthing on all the nation , like Icelandic coverment support war In Iraq? but NOT the Nation not people of Iceland. And do the Islamic world care about that ? So if you wanna help us send e-mails to the Icelandics empassy. There are many angry people here in Iceland now and there are election coming up next year so I will do my best to keep this people away. I have alway tryed to come and what I feel about thinks with respect to other people and I always try to think before I speak You say what will and what you think who cares I will not come in here again . all the best Skarpi Icealnd. |
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19 Oct 06 - 03:32 AM (#1862923) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Paul Burke Yes, I did start this thread, and hoped it would be an intelligent discussion of the issues, not a name calling exercise. |
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19 Oct 06 - 03:39 AM (#1862930) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Alan Day Skarpi you are taking this as a personal attack on you ,it is not.If you are also against whaling then you are with us.These postings are aimed at your Goverment for agreeing to such action and unless people raise objections to what they dislike, as you have just done on other things,all of our Goverments ride over us as if we do not exist.By voicing opinions we are a voice for the good and you are included in that voice. Al |
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19 Oct 06 - 07:39 AM (#1863046) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: ard mhacha Fair play to you Skarpi, I hope you are successful in letting your whale hunting countrymen know what the vast majority of Europe thinks of this crime against these beautiful creatures. |
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19 Oct 06 - 11:55 AM (#1863292) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: GUEST Never a good idea to ask a single person to speak for a nation, regardless of the subject matter. Tokenism doesn't offer much in the way true education or enlightment on a subject. As to Iceland's decision: I believe we have seen the end of the moratorium on whale hunting. There is a lot of whale hunting starting up again, based upon all that "our father's father's tradition" crap. It has everything to do with capitalist exploitation of any animal product that can be sold to any idiot on the planet looking to escape their personal lived reality (getting a hard on, having youthful skin, curing cancer, etc etc). The reality is, there is no need for animal products in consumer goods. None. Zero. Zip. Zilch. The end of the moratorium on whale hunting by ancient whale hunting societies now seeking to exploit the world's capitalist lust and greed for animal products has nothing to do with "tradition" or a chemical requirement for consumer goods that only animal products can supply. It is about greed. Nothing more, nothing less. |
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19 Oct 06 - 12:59 PM (#1863372) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: ard mhacha Fair play to you Skarpi. |
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19 Oct 06 - 01:04 PM (#1863377) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: GUEST And as to the economic tourism question, it is a very good one. In Iceland, the whale watching industry contributes more to the national economy than commercial whaling did before Iceland joined the moratorium in the 1980s. The Icelandic Fisheries Ministry is also lying about their commercial exploitation intentions by saying they will only do "sustainable harvests" of whale species. Of the 39 permits issued for the hunt, nine of them are for endangered fin whales - proving claims that the hunt is sustainable are not true. Also, people should realize Iceland has been whale hunting since 2003, under the same ruse the Japanese are using: "scientific" whaling. There is an excess of unwanted meat in Iceland, Norway and Japan. In Iceland, they haven't even sold the meat from earlier "scientific" hunts. 82.4 percent of Iceland's 16 to 24-year-olds say they never eat whale meat. Not only is there not much of a market for the meat today, but the future for the whale meat market is non-existent both in Iceland and globally. By catering to this very small, pro-hunt faction in Iceland, the government is risking the wrath of a globally organized tourism boycott of the country. So why do they bother? Easy: greed. A very small group of men will make a tidy sum, while most Icelanders will be left to suffer the consequences. Just like in the rest of the global capitalist republics in the world. |
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19 Oct 06 - 01:44 PM (#1863419) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: GUEST Ironic, isn't it, that the largest creatures on earth are also the gentlest? |
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19 Oct 06 - 03:35 PM (#1863511) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: GUEST,ibo i agreed with you,and then i remambered king kong and changed my mind. |
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19 Oct 06 - 03:35 PM (#1863512) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: skarpi I was not gonna come here again , but here I am . First of all calling us BASTARDS and BLOODY ICELAND did not go well in me we have nothing do to with whale hunting in Iceland and I am against it if we had a hunger in Iceland then maybe I would agree but we are not and they say that they will sell the meat to Japan ??? they fish whales we dont need to feet them ? I was watching the news just few min ago and I think everything is going crazy becouse of this and thats good . Like the guest said we have alot of people coming to Iceland to whalewatching and thats good and I hope they will keep coming and Icelandic Coverment will stop this , if they dont then there are an election next may so we can movie this coverment away in that election. But I have to say this: both UK and US have a liesence to kill ... in Iraq humans and what do we do ?? nothing or little and we start killing whales everthing goes crazy .....?????? I am against UK AND USA for being in Iraq and they think they are the world police and I am against whalehunting but I support whalewatching its great to see this big whales in the oceans.........:<) hmmm maybe I have gone over the line .... then if so then Sorry folks All the best Skarpi Iceland. |
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19 Oct 06 - 03:40 PM (#1863515) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: MMario skarpi - no, I don't think you went over the line - nor really overreacted. You did have a personal reaction to something that offended you - perfectly natural. Hoping to see you at some future mudgather. MMario |
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19 Oct 06 - 03:42 PM (#1863517) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: skarpi you will MMario , but I have to say this I am against the coverments of both UK And USA not the people of those nations. All the best Skarpi Iceland. |
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19 Oct 06 - 03:58 PM (#1863534) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: skarpi no ibo , I eat whale meat I just dont see the need right now to fish the whale ? sorry and so you know mr,ibo :>) I am not angry farawy I can write down what I think but it dos not mean that I am angry , so I am going to play some music and have some good time . all the best Skarpi Iceland. |
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19 Oct 06 - 04:05 PM (#1863538) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: skarpi I will Mr ibo ,have a good day as always god be with you All thebest Skarpi Iceland. |
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20 Oct 06 - 03:30 AM (#1863924) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Paul Burke I was hoping that Skarpi could enlighten us about what is the political background to this within Iceland. Why do they WANT to do this? Is it some macho statement, are they trying to express a nationalistic point about traditional culture, have they some trade- off in mind (ok, we'll stop catching whales, what will you give us, like Libya giving up its non-existent nuclear program), are they getting subsidies or trade agreements from Japan in return? Or something else entirely? |
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20 Oct 06 - 05:27 AM (#1863979) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Keef Whale meat again Don't know where Don't know when But I know Whale meat again Some sunny day |
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20 Oct 06 - 04:38 PM (#1864565) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: skarpi Dear Paul , this is a independence act of a nation who have through the centurys got food from the sea , a long long time ago we fished whales when had feed the nation from hunger along with another food . We do not get any thing from Japan instead and to think that the Japan is going to get this meat from 9 whales hahahah its a joke its a one rich man dream witch is coming through and its strange there are an election coming up in next may , its also strange that the whale boat was already gone out before the coverment told the Icelandic people about this ? is this man putting money in the elecions ? I wonder .. we are not trying to Express the world we dont need to , and I am against this whale hunting there is no need for Iceland to do this we will not die from hunger and we dont need to feed the Japan people do we ?? what we Icelanders do need is getting this Coverment away in the next election those people are a bad choice for Iceland. I agree with the statement from Ausralia about this matter . Many Icelanders are against this but as always this coverment dont listen to the people . Like the war in Iraq only three man In Iceland agreed to support the US to go along with it , NOT the Icelandic nation . As I said WE DONT NEED TO DO THIS AT ALL . We have a great country , clear and good air many people from the world coming here and we dont need to make that go away. For a crazy act small croup of people here in Iceland. All the best Skarpi ICeland. |
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20 Oct 06 - 06:12 PM (#1864642) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Alan Day What I cannot understand Skarpi is why your goverment would give permission to commence hunting again, as it just does not make economic sense .The Holiday trade consists of people who love Whales so much so they go all the way to Iceland to see them, if they hear that your countrymen are killing them they will keep away.It is crazy. Al |
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20 Oct 06 - 07:22 PM (#1864687) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: GUEST, Ebbie If Skarpi - and everybody else who despises what the US and the "Coalition" is doing in Iraq - called us 'bastards' and the 'bloody US', I suspect we too would take exception to it. Even when we understand and agree with the sentiment. |
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20 Oct 06 - 09:34 PM (#1864781) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Peace So, how many people have sent letters to the Icelandic government regarding the renewal of the hunt? |
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20 Oct 06 - 10:20 PM (#1864797) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Peace Some addresses editor@althingi.is Also Tourist Board |
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20 Oct 06 - 10:31 PM (#1864809) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Sorcha Skarpi told me today that the boat has gone out with permission to kill 7 whales, but the whales seem to have moved south out of the area. Smart or what? So far, no dead whales from Iceland. |
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21 Oct 06 - 04:30 AM (#1864901) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: skarpi Hallo all , No Sorcha 9 whales , and this does not make economic sense I agree with that I will tell you along agreeing supporting the war in Iraq and starting whale hunting has been the biggest mistake this Coverment has ever done . Thank you Ebbie and Peace I was gonna do that you did for me this is a sad week for the Icelandic people. I WISH ALL YOU PEOPLE WHO ARE NOW ALL CRAZY ABOUT THIS WHALE HUNTING NOW GO CRAZY ABOUT THE KILLING IN IRAQ BECOUSE DONT FORGET THAT COALITION ARMYS HAVE LIECENCE TO KILL HUMANS, ALL THOUSE WHO ARE DIEING IN AFRICA BECOUSE OF WAR AND HUNGER ??WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT THIS ?? NOTHING OR A LITTLE , WE SHOULD ALL BE A SHAMED now may god bless you all as I think he will do to me All the best Skarpi Icealnd Ps : the whale has not get any whales yet , so I think they are all gone to the south , |
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22 Oct 06 - 04:09 PM (#1865853) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: GUEST,Icelander Hi, I have been reading this thread, and it's most interesting. However I would like to add a few things. To start with the meat from the whales that were hunted last year, there is nothing left of it. Fact: 60% of Icelandic people support whaling. 40% do not. The Fin whales and their endangerment. There are many "groups" of them in the sea, in the northen atlandic ocean, in the pacific, india ocean, and more. These whales are not endangered, according to research. If we believed them to be endangered we wouldn't hunt them. (Try coming here and see the whales for yourself, there is plenty of them) It's also weird that the US gov. doesn't like Icelandic whaling, but the US has hunted whales for many years in the pacific, they still hunt them. I find this a little sarcastic. I live in the north part of Iceland, in akureyri, I have eaten whale, it was barbequed and tasted ok. We don't eat it everyday. |
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22 Oct 06 - 04:14 PM (#1865857) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: GUEST Well they caught their first one today. |
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22 Oct 06 - 04:24 PM (#1865863) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Peace I haven't heard anything in response to either e-mail. "Fact: 60% of Icelandic people support whaling. 40% do not." That don't matter shit. What matters is that you are helping to kill off a beautiful creature. Put something else on your bloody barbeque. |
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22 Oct 06 - 04:30 PM (#1865866) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Sorcha A beautiful SENTIENT creature with language! |
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22 Oct 06 - 04:34 PM (#1865871) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Clinton Hammond " hoped it would be an intelligent discussion" On Mudcat?? HA! There is ZERO good reason to hunt whale... |
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22 Oct 06 - 04:47 PM (#1865881) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Big Mick I would like a source on the contention that 60% of Icelanders support whaling. Otherwise it is simply a gratuitous assertion. Mick |
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22 Oct 06 - 04:51 PM (#1865886) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Peace Gratuitous or not (and I suspect that those figures may not be totally accurate), I do not give a rat's ass who on this planet thinks he or she has a right to hunt creatures whose very existence is precarious. We do NOT have that right. That post by the guy rings of, "I can do whatever I want to this planet and fuck the consequences." Well, NO you CAN'T. Get civilized fer krissake. Stop ruining the world my kids have to live in. |
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22 Oct 06 - 05:02 PM (#1865892) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Big Mick I quite agree, but I am a bit more cynical than you. I suspect that post came from someone with an agenda who is monitoring the web for this stuff. We will see if s/he comes back. |
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22 Oct 06 - 05:05 PM (#1865894) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Peace I hear THAT, Mick. |
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22 Oct 06 - 05:29 PM (#1865911) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Barry Finn Well it seems as if there adifferent opinions from one Icelander to another from what I'm reading on this thread. Skarpi's already laid out a pretty fair view of how people view whale hunting in Iceland & it sounds logical to me, it's usually the case of governments doing as they please without the will of the people behind them. If GuestIcelander would like to show something that backs up his/her claim I'd like to see it. But I'm already thrown off by one statement that "the US has hunted whales for many years in the pacific". I can find fault with plenty that my country does but it does not suffer whale hunting in any waters. Unless GuestIcelander is going back the 1850's? Also the statement that "these (Fin) whales are not endangered, according to research", they are on the endangered list & research or no research, nothing changes that. They are an endangered species. When I lived in Hawaii I'd see plenty of Sperm & Humpback whales that doesn't give evidence that they're endangered or not nor does seeing herds in the North Alantic, science has comme a long way from using that kind of logic, thank heavens. |
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22 Oct 06 - 11:43 PM (#1866174) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Ebbie "...but the US has hunted whales for many years in the pacific, they still hunt them." Guest/Icelander Truthfully, although the US doesn't hunt whale - to my knowledge - they do allow the Inuit to take a certain number each year. I think it is three whales for their villages, although there are years that they don't 'collect' that many. |
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23 Oct 06 - 02:27 AM (#1866221) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: skarpi Peace If we are gonna" Stop ruining the world my kids have to live in." well then no computer cames , no tv , and start with stopping the US and armed forces in Iraq and around the world Killing humans . All the best Skarpi Iceland. |
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23 Oct 06 - 02:46 AM (#1866225) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: skarpi and I forgot, 60% of the Icelanders support whaleing ? havent seen that it may be right /or wrong I have to look for it , in any cany case this is wrong we should stopp this kiling . The whale that came on land yesterday is so narrow that we cant even eat the meat? why narrow must means that the food in the ocean is not enough? All the best SkarpiIceland. |
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23 Oct 06 - 08:45 AM (#1866381) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Fiolar Perhaps some radio station should beam that marvellous, great and terribly sad song "I am the Last of the Great Whales" sung by Sean Cannon at Iceland. It always brings tears to my eyes. |
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23 Oct 06 - 09:17 AM (#1866407) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: GUEST,Icelander Hi again, I'm not monitoring the web, I just googled "iceland whale hunting" as I was curious to what I would find. The 60% and 40% is from ruv.is a survey made by Gallup. http://www.ruv.is/heim/frettir/frett/store64/item87160/ It's here in icelandic Gallup: Flestir hlynntir hvalveiðum Rúmlega 73% Íslendinga eru fylgjandi hvalveiðum í atvinnuskyni en 11,5% eru mótfallin þeim. Þetta kemur fram í nýrri könnun Gallups, sem unnin var fyrir LÍU. Þá sýnir könnunin að tæp 73% þeirra sem farið hafa í hvalaskoðun, eru fylgjandi hvalveiðum. Jón Gunnarsson, formaður Sjávarnytja, kallar á málefnalega umræðu um staðreyndir við Samtök ferðaþjónustunnar, sem lengi hafa barist gegn hvalveiðum. « Til baka It pretty much reads: Over 73% of Icelandic people follow hunting whales, but 11,5% opose. The survey also shows that 73% of those who have gone whale looking, support hunting whales. Skarpi wrote that the whale was narrow, beause of food in the ocean not being enough. Whales eat by swimming with their mouth open, filling it with sea and then pushing the, water out leaving the food left inside to swallow. Icelandic fishermen have said for some years that whales are eating themselves off. Icelandic sea birds have for that last years not been able to feed themselves and their young, this is believed to be beacause the lack of food for them. They feed on the same food as whales. I was not expecting this interest in my writing, but I just wanted to add another point of view, the whale debate has a tendance to be a bit to one side. |
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23 Oct 06 - 10:16 AM (#1866467) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Peace Yeah. When species are hunted to extinction or beyond their ability to reproduce it tends to bother some people. We are stewards here, not owners. |
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23 Oct 06 - 10:18 AM (#1866470) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Paul Burke That's nutty. Whales have been thriving in the sea for millions of years. They achieve, like all creatures, a balance with their source of food. It's only when people came along fishing with advanced technology that the fish population collapsed (cod is practically extinct in many former fishing grounds). And no fish means starving whales. So it's greedy people who are hoovering up the fish faster than they can breed, not whales. And we will achieve a balance with our food supplies eventually. The process will probably not be very pleasant. |
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23 Oct 06 - 10:29 AM (#1866481) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Big Mick Dead on, Paul Burke. Great post. Mother Nature has her way of bringing balance back in the equation. Mankind, in its arrogance, thinks it is smarter. As time will show, indeed as it is already showing, that is foolish and will have horrific results for our children, as well as the creatures of the earth. As pointed out above, it is about stewardship.
From the greatest of the big sperm whales to the tiniest insect To rule with love and kindness the weak, the wild, the strong And treat My creatures gently only you know right from wrong Mick |
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23 Oct 06 - 10:57 AM (#1866506) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: GUEST,Icelander Just so you know whales don't eat cod or fish of that kind they eat Plankton (Icelandic, svif), a very small organism, same as the cod eats and the sea birds also. You might want learn more about them whales. I found a report about whale resources in the North Atlantic. There is a table at the bottom of the document stating spiecies, stock size and status. I you like you can read it, and learn a little more about this whale stuff. For the record I'm not an expert on whales, I'm just a normal Icelander. I don't hate whales, I think they are amazing animals. Hope my writing brought a new side to the matter, thank you for reading. |
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23 Oct 06 - 11:09 AM (#1866512) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Paul Burke There are plankton- eating whales (baleen whales) and fish- eating (toothed whales). The blue whale, right whale, and sperm whale are among the first; the bottlenose whales among the second group. |
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23 Oct 06 - 12:09 PM (#1866551) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Raptor With global warming, the oceans are rising as the ice caps melt. The oceans soon will be splilling over. Whales take up a lot of space... So if we get rid of those pesky whales... |
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23 Oct 06 - 02:13 PM (#1866621) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: pdq Raptor: That post is so asinine that it does not deserve a response. It shows why sane scientists and ordinary citizens are sick and tired of Environmentalists. They consider anyone who won't join their hatemongering to be 'the enemy'. They destroy peoples lives using any lies necessary. The big losers are the endangered species of plants and animals who are caught between screaming Leftists who use them as a means to power and the conservationists who seek to save them. Raptor, grow up. You are not helping anything. |
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23 Oct 06 - 02:17 PM (#1866626) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Big Mick pdq ....... take a minute ...... look up the meaning of "tongue in cheek" ........ thanks |
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23 Oct 06 - 02:27 PM (#1866637) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Raptor PDQ Get a helmet! It was a joke. |
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23 Oct 06 - 04:13 PM (#1866698) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: skarpi The song has a name : The Last Laviatan ...... and is a great song with a good lyric. Poul I wish the world would be secured for our children great post there . All the best Skarpi Iceland |
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24 Oct 06 - 02:24 AM (#1866980) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Barry Finn It's believed that in order to resume a hunt on whales that the present stock should be at the very lease (minimum in studies) 53% of the original stoch pre mid 18th century. It not even close to that. The IWC (International Whaling Commision) believes that Iceland is on it's way to petion in the future to drop the ban on commerical whaling where at present the IWC bans even whaling for scientific studies claiming that the studies can be done in non-lethal methods for research. see http://www.global-whale-alliance.org/iceland.htm Barru |
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24 Oct 06 - 03:43 AM (#1866998) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Alan Day Reading the paper yesterday about this subject ,it was stated that thousands of people World Wide have Emailed the Iclandic Goverment about their disgust about the recommencement of Whaling.It would be nice if they took notice of at least one of these Emails and put a stop to it. Al |
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24 Oct 06 - 04:25 AM (#1867019) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Paul Burke Having looked into this a little deeper, I find Icelander's post earlier rather disingenuous. He was implying that since baleen whales eat plankton, the depletion of fish stocks by humans was irrelevant. In fact, the Icelandic government's main justification for whaling is conservation of fish stocks. Plankton includes eggs and larval stages of fish, and the baleen filters will catch not only these but smaller fish as well. "Fin whales feed mainly on small shrimp-like creatures called krill or euphausiids and schooling fish. They have been observed circling schools of fish at high speed, rolling the fish into compact balls then turning on their right side to engulf the fish...They can consume up to 2 tons .. of food a day." Iceland has most to lose in this- if they come to be viewed as ecologically destructive, they will seriously damage a tourist industry worth many times the value of whale products, and an international consumer boycott could damage other industries as well. |
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24 Oct 06 - 06:46 AM (#1867064) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Barry Finn Are we being told it's the whales fault? Barry |
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24 Oct 06 - 06:48 PM (#1867666) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: GUEST,Icelander Why are evreryone so concerned about whales? Cow's are mammals too and we eat them all the time. And the whales around Iceland are not endangered and we are only taking 39 whales a year. |
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25 Oct 06 - 12:24 AM (#1867873) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Barry Finn Icelander Try breeding a whale when you get hungry. Barry |
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25 Oct 06 - 03:32 AM (#1867924) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Paul Burke The cow population is probably 10 times its 1850 level, and that applies to other domesticated meat animals. The whale population is about a quarter of thae level then, some species a tenth. |
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25 Oct 06 - 04:33 AM (#1867951) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Peace "And the whales around Iceland are not endangered and we are only taking 39 whales a year." That's up a bit from the 7 or 9 that were going to be killed this year. You like Bush economics? |
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25 Oct 06 - 03:57 PM (#1868547) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: skarpi Over 90,000 people have sign in , in the Greenpeace webside i am pleased but , I think our seaminester is not going to stop I think so something big has to do ...... what ever that s gonna be ? our economic is gonna hurt becouse of this :>((( I still see no use to start this whale hunting ?? All the best Skarpi ICeland. |
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25 Oct 06 - 11:53 PM (#1868832) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Peace There IS no use to it, Skarpi. Sad, but please know yours is not the only government in the world that doesn't care about the planet. I suppose on a scale of one to ten it's a small thing, but have a look here. |
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26 Oct 06 - 03:43 AM (#1868903) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Paul Burke It's worth pointing out that Iceland is not alone. Norway and Japan also hunt whales, and have not suffered noticeably from it. I can't imagine the British government protesting to Norway just after they opened up a pipeline that reduced our dependence on Russian gas. But I'm more interested in why. And the only answer I can see is "because they can"- playing "nobody understands us, let's smash the bus shelter" on an international scale. A feeling that the world is out to crush their tiny culture, and the only way to hit back is to do something spectacular, but not particularly dangerous to themselves. It's childish, and it's about time these destructive nationalists grew up. As someone said elsewhere, if hunting whales is a tradition, do it in the traditional way, with iron harpoons and an open rowing boat. |
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26 Oct 06 - 11:42 AM (#1869170) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Peace The Canadian Inuit--when the Canuck government will allow a license--use single-person kayaks and a harpoon. Belugas, as you can see, are somewhat smaller than many of their relations. |
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26 Oct 06 - 03:55 PM (#1869356) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: GUEST,copy paste But on to whales. I don't see whales as being any different than a cow, a sheep or a dog. They all provide protein necessary for our bodies to survive. So if you are going to bitch about the Japanese eating whales on the basis that whales are these beautiful magical creatures, then I hope you have never enjoyed a good roast lamb on Sunday, or rabbit stew. My students think that it is barbaric that we eat lamb because they are so cute or rabbits as they are a household pet here in Korea. Right now I'd happily pay hundreds of dollars for a decent Sunday roast as I haven't had one in over a year and probably won't until I return to the west. |
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26 Oct 06 - 11:53 PM (#1869653) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Barry Finn So you don't see the difference between a whale & a rabbit, dog or sheep? Remind me not to send you to the market to buy Sunday's dinner. I'd be very afraid that you'd bring back a pack mule. Here's a couple bucks (pun intended) why don't ya bring back an ass. Whoops, there's already one right here. Barry |
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27 Oct 06 - 02:47 AM (#1869717) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: skarpi Barry , well now you re getting back some words and you are takeing them inside you ..... why don't ya bring back an ass. Whoops, there's already one right here ?? dont let them get you they are only words , why Barry I dont like this whalehunting becouse its 2006 and we dont need them as a food, there is no hunger here also becouse its not good economic way at the moment and I think in a few weeks this will be banned again . But Barry do you behave like this with your own coverment ? they are killing both whales and humans ? Have you send them an E-mail ???? What s the diffrent between killing whales or human poeple???? Its okei to kill humans but not whales??? its okei if the people in Africa is die-ing of hunger ? becouse the rest of the world have no time for them becouse the world is in war , I guess all the time the US coverment have is to have a fantasy of MR Bush coming true?? wargames ???? So I say it again to the coverment of Australia , UK and USA and others CLEAN UP YOUR OWN GARDEN BEFORE YOU START CLEANING OTHERS. we should be a shame, we have everything and they have almost nothing and it is not just in africa its in Us Uk Iceland all arround the world. Now I may not be a clever man Barry But fighting is never a good thing not even in words, All the best Skarpi Iceland. |
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27 Oct 06 - 03:24 AM (#1869728) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Paul Burke Skarpi, you've really gone over the top on this. Plenty of us oppose our government's approach on Iraq etc. We also oppose YOUR government's attitude to hunting whales. The two are not mutually incompatible. As we've pointed out, there is a huge difference beetween hunting a limited resource of wild animals and breeding animals specifically for meat. We're never likely to exterminate cows; we have already almost exterminated several species of whale, and severely depleted many species of fish. I think that the issue here is nationalism. We've touched a raw nerve by criticising what you see as a small defenceless country, and you just verbally kick out. Don't do it. It's paranoid behaviour, and chauvinism is never a sensible response. There are many hungry people in Africa. Does that mean it's OK to exterminate elephants and rhinos? In the meantime, I will pledge NOT to visit Iceland, Norway or Japan until they have their minds sorted out, and whenever possible I will avoid trading with them. Which means I'll hacve to get a new antivirus when my subscription to F-Prot runs out. |
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27 Oct 06 - 09:04 AM (#1869892) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Raptor I think the point that Skarpi is triing to make is that whale hunting, although it is wrong, is a "trendy" outrage when there are a million causes, such as the endangered Eastern Massassuaga Rattlesnake in Ontario that no-one gives a shit about because the whale is a more PR friendly creature than a rattlesnake. Skarpi is right. Why not spend more time lobbying your own Goverment to change local injustices instead of beaking off about someone else's! I'd say Iceland is by far a more envoronmentaly frendly country than mine (Canada) or yours! Raptor |
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27 Oct 06 - 10:11 AM (#1869970) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Peace "They all provide protein necessary for our bodies to survive." true. The fundamental difference between eating cow and whale, however, is that cows are not in danger of extinction. To follow your logic, humans are another source of protein, but we have a taboo against eating other humans--some sexual variations do apply. |
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27 Oct 06 - 12:22 PM (#1870093) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Wolfgang Can any of the North Americans explain to me why the Inuit may kill whales as part of their traditional culture and for instance the Faroese should not though whale killing has been a part of their culture since many centuries and they do not kill more than they can eat? (Their catches have been stable over the centuries) Is the difference that people we regard as "whites" do not have a tradition and culture worth to be preserved whereas people we regard as "nonwhites" have a culture worth to be preserved? That's a nineteenth century white supremacy position in my eyes though held with the best of intentions this time: The poor wild people just don't know better but we stand above them and therefore don't .... (fill in your choice of what we should not do whereas for them it is still ok). To me that looks like a patronising attitude just with the best of intentions this time. Wolfgang (who has eaten whale only once, in Iceland) |
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27 Oct 06 - 04:17 PM (#1870246) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: skarpi It's paranoid behaviour, and chauvinism is never a sensible response. My dear friend Paul , you dont know me at all and I dont care if US army has left our country or not , raely I am glad that they are gone now they dont have to spent any more time here in our country with this bad people who seems to live here on this Island. you say , I will pledge NOT to visit Iceland, Norway or Japan until they have their minds sorted out, and whenever possible I will avoid trading with them. Which means I'll hacve to get a new antivirus when my subscription to F-Prot runs out. what if all the people who are against the war in Iraq would not visit USA or UK while they are fighting in Iraq? thats many million s of people Paul. And what give the US right to fish whales and Iceland not ! At the moment we have here to visit us many people from Greenpeace and from travel companys who are telling us that they will not sell any more trips to Iceland? its not gonna affect the coverment only the people who work at the tourist companys. Paul I am not angry I am glad that we can talk about this and we agree with some and some we dont agree about but thats alright I respect your view. Well I have to go but If you ever come to our great counrty send me an PM and I would like to meet up with you . All the best from an Island skarpi Iceland |
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27 Oct 06 - 05:38 PM (#1870299) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: GUEST,Copy paste I don't think the Icelanders are arguing that whales should be fished to extinction. The problem when debating with environmentalists on whaling is there doesn't seem to be any middle group with them. You either support a ban on whaling, or you an evil monster who wants all those whales destroyed. I'm happy for the Icelanders to hunt for whales in sustainable numbers, it's not up for me to complain about what they choose eat just as long as they make sure that there is enough for future generations to enjoy it too. |
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27 Oct 06 - 05:39 PM (#1870302) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Peace "To me that looks like a patronising attitude just with the best of intentions this time." If it were up to me, the Inuit would no more be allowed to kill whales than anyone else, Wolfgang. The reason? Because some asshole in a government office wants to appease people. Ottawa and politics is not much better than working in a whore house. |
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27 Oct 06 - 05:50 PM (#1870310) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Peace Steller's Sea Cow Tell it to the Marines. |
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27 Oct 06 - 07:42 PM (#1870378) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: GUEST,Copy paste # up to 95% of Earth's species may have disappeared during the later Permian extinction episode, about 250 million years ago # starting 45,000 years ago, a high proportion of larger land animals became extinct, just at the time when humans arrived. |
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27 Oct 06 - 08:20 PM (#1870405) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Peace Uh huh. And? |
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28 Oct 06 - 03:30 AM (#1870603) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Barry Finn I don't have a problem with the Inuit hunting whales as long as it's not for commerical purposes. Just as I don't see anything wrong with the MicMac's fishing salmon out of their Canadian rivers which have been commerically over fished by others, yet their rights to that stock has been cut & slashed by other for commerical gain. Yet again some one wants to hold up the peoples of the first nations & say "why them". This also happens in Brazil, in the rain forests yet again the regional tribe folks take the hit for it. I'm ok with it because they had always treated the food chain & the Earth with respect & they continue to hunt of fish or farm & collect in the older ways of their customs. I do not, now & have never turned a blind eye to anyone, any group or any country when I believe that there's a wrong that's being commited against humanity. Weither it's an unjust war, an act of agression against mother nature, or the non support of a health crisis. I'll call it as I see it. See my posts, I don't single out anyone or anything unfairly. That goes for hunting whales by Japan, Iceland or Norway. It also goes for the US & the UK for their support the war in Iraq. It also goes for those that would rather sicken the earth for profit rather their spend some money of R&D of reuseable energy. Exxon just announced billions in profits yet they still refuse to pay up their debts for what occured in Alaska over a decade ago. I may not do much but I do my little part & speaking up is only one part of that obligation. I do my share of letter writing, personnal boycotting, protest marching, etc. I've done this since I was a teen during the 60's for the civil rights causes, against the Viet Nam war & have done this all my life & will continue. So if it happens to be I'm speaking about the nation where one happens to reside in don't get to upset, I learnt how to do this on my own soil first. I've never heard of native peoples drying or polluting up their streams, or causing super fund sites with their waste. Nor have I ever heard of them to cause a spieces to become extinct or erode their lands by misuse. So for arguement's sake let's leave them out of all this & let's not play that cheap card trick. Barry |
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28 Oct 06 - 06:07 AM (#1870643) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: skarpi My dear Barry ,then we are agree with most of the thing s . I hope to see you at the Getaway 2007 and sing and play together . I think we can what is happening to the worlds wheather system and what is happening to the seastreams for exsample arround Iceland, somethings is realy wrong ............. I am against war of any kind , and I am against Whalehunting here in Iceland arround the world. Respect to mother earth that is something we should all focus on , but ........... Barry this is a good post , and sorry if I have hurt your feelings. Over and out , from this thread. All the best Skarpi Iceland |
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29 Oct 06 - 01:07 AM (#1871120) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Barry Finn My feelings are fine with you, I know where your heart is. I was wishing to see you this year but if it has to be I'll be glad to see you in 2007. Best of luck Barry |
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29 Oct 06 - 11:24 AM (#1871401) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Wolfgang I've never heard of native peoples drying or polluting up their streams, or causing super fund sites with their waste. Nor have I ever heard of them to cause a spieces to become extinct or erode their lands by misuse. (Just BTW, that is not true in general.) However, my point is that the Icelanders are the natives of Iceland since many centuries (about as long very roughly as the Maori are the natives of New Zealand) and the Faroese are the natives of the Faroes. Do people have to look different from us to be regarded by us as "natives" and to get the privileges of "natives" that come from a bad conscience accumulated aver the centuries of mistreatment? In my eyes, the privileges of "natives" have to be granted to the Icelanders and Faroese as well or (Peace's consistent position) everybody should be forbidden to hunt whales. Wolfgang |
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29 Oct 06 - 12:00 PM (#1871436) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Leadfingers Comparing Domesticated food animals and animals living in the wild makes as much sense as comparing Elephants and Jumbo Jets ! |
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29 Oct 06 - 12:00 PM (#1871437) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Leadfingers 100 ! |
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30 Oct 06 - 01:55 AM (#1871905) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Barry Finn Do these "natives" still hunt traditionaly without the use modern high teck? Do they fish with harpoon or spear or do they use high power weaponery? Do they hunt by small vessels or high powered large sea going vessels? I think that you understood that my differences were that they are modernized cultures. The way that old world groups survive & don't harm the balance of food stocks is in there method of the hunt & that the hunt was always based on getting enough to be self sufficient which would include trade with neighbors. No, people do not need to look different but their life style is definitly different. They don't live in high rise or cities. They live in the communities & surroundings that have existed without the aides of modern technology. The inhabitants of rain forests, the Inuit people, the Hawaiians of Niihau & of course there are exceptions. An example might be those I gave above like the Mic Mac who unlike the others fish, hunt & plant in order to supplment while others do the same for their survival. I would say that this is quite a differrence from those cultures & societies that engauge in these activities for commerical profit. There's the difference. Barry |
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30 Oct 06 - 02:33 AM (#1871916) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Keef Save The Whale Collect the whole set I got the blue one but now my freezer is full up. |
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31 Oct 06 - 12:28 PM (#1873111) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Wolfgang The Faroese kill the pilot whales in the traditional way with traditional weapons (roughly, hook and knife) but their small boats chasing the whales into a bay today have motors. Protect-the-whales-groups BTW have harshly criticised the Faroese for using the traditional method of killing and have called it "medieval". For each group of pilot whales nearing the Faroes it is decided anew whether the chase will be allowed or not. The number of killed whales is stable since centuries (the data go some centuries back). None of these whales is processed industrially, all meat and what else can be used is distributed and used locally. Wolfgang |
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31 Oct 06 - 12:33 PM (#1873118) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Peace In Canada, those of us of traditional bent hunt the haggis. We ARE attempting to hunt it to extinction, but to date we have had little success. It is generally accompanied by copious draughts of Scotch, a liquid of wonderful medicinal properties but one also that causes the hunter to lose his or her balance. |
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31 Oct 06 - 06:51 PM (#1873395) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Leadfingers Peace - Bear in mind that the Native Scottish Haggis , which I assume is the source of your Canadian variety , is a Clockwise creature , with the LEFT legs longer than the right legs , so they can only go clockwise round the mountains ! The SPOTING way to hunt is to only go clockwise yourself . The UN sporting way is for a few people to drive the poor unsuspecting haggis round the mountain to the waiting guns . |
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09 Apr 07 - 03:12 PM (#2020632) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: GUEST Save the whales! |
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10 Apr 07 - 03:53 AM (#2021157) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Gurney Along with several others, I can't see much wrong with using whales as food. That's my philosophical position, and I am setting myself up for a heap of shit. I do, however, have a problem with catching them right NOW, because they have been commercially 'fished' almost to extinction, and if they are not left strictly alone to recover, they may never do so. Who can tell if the whale that's harpooned tomorrow might be the most genetically important one left? Arbitrarily reducing the size of a already reduced gene pool is bloody stupid. They only procreate like other big mammals, not spawn like fish. Just because you can see 'plenty' of them, it doesn't mean there are lots of them. It is possible that you see the same ones over and over, as is the case with territorial whales. Non-whaling (ex-whaling) countries do tend to be a bit unbalanced about whaling, though. AFTER it became uneconomic, they swung the other way as conscience prodded them to to try to 'Save the Whale.' Now they try to lean on subsistance whalers to comply with their position. |
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10 Apr 07 - 04:08 AM (#2021168) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Gurney I meant to point out that commercial whalers have catcher boats and factory ships which are no use for anything else. Subsistance whalers drag the thing up the beach and deal to it there, distributing the spoils to friends and family. I see a difference there. I live in a country that was founded, in its present situation, largely on whaling and sealing, and exploitation of other natural resources. The original inhabitants were subsistance whalers, and then along came the Pakehas, the European settlers. My name is Davy Lowstan, I did Seal, I did Seal. My name is Davy Lowstan, I did Seal. Though my men and I were lost, though our very lives it cost, we did Seal, we did Seal, we did Seal. |
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10 Apr 07 - 07:51 AM (#2021233) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: skarpi Guest you said --Save the whales! Us is one of larges whales fishing nation in the world ? so are you gonna stop too ? you have to stop your coverment in saying - I can -you cant . I think the whaling in Iceland is going to be stopped, we have elections here in the middle of may , I hope a new group of people will take over , and they are against whale fishing. All the best Skarpi Iceland. |
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16 Apr 14 - 11:22 AM (#3619400) Subject: RE: BS: Iceland and whale hunting From: Ed T I put this link here, as it deals with whaling and Japan is mentioned in some of the posts. A Japanese parliamentary committee has unanimously passed a resolution urging the government to investigate all options to continue whaling, including "walking out of the (international whaling) convention" Japan politicians defiant despite whaling ban |
