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08 Dec 06 - 11:57 AM (#1903531) Subject: raggle-taggle From: Roberto I'd like to know something about this expression, "raggle-taggle", where can the two words come from, etc (from a version of The Gypsy Laddie, The Raggle-Taggle Gypsies). Thank you. R |
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08 Dec 06 - 12:14 PM (#1903545) Subject: RE: raggle-taggle From: Kevin Sheils tag-rag and bobtail An expression meaning an assemblage of low people, the mobility of all sorts. Definition taken from The 1811 Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue, originally by Francis Grose. Although I tend to know it as rag tag rather than tag-rag I guess raggle taggle comes from the same source. The rag part "may" refer to trading in rags as in rag and bone men. |
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08 Dec 06 - 12:30 PM (#1903561) Subject: RE: raggle-taggle From: Paul Burke Draggle tail (A slattern who suffers her gown to trail in the mire; a drabble-tail - according to online dictionary) is probably related. |
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13 Dec 06 - 07:22 AM (#1908274) Subject: RE: raggle-taggle From: Jim Dixon Possibly relevant definitions from Dictionary of the Scots Language (citations deleted) RAGGLE I. v.intr. To wrangle, dispute, bicker, banter; to haggle in bargaining II. n. A wrangle, dispute, argument [? Conflation of wrangle and haggle. ?] RAG I. n. 1. A disturbance, a noisy dispute; a scolding. 2. Phrs.: (1) geed at 'e rag, voluble in taunting and chaffing (2) to hae a rag oot o, to enjoy a joke at another's expense, to get a laugh out of (3) to tak the rag o, to make sport of, make a fool of II. v. To scold, rate, reproach severely Taigle, v. to disarrange, bring into disorder. tr. To hinder, impede (a person) in a course of action; to keep back, delay (a person TAIGLE I. v. 1. tr. To tangle, confuse, entangle, muddle 2. To detain, keep back, hinder, harass, trammel, get in the way of ... 4. tr. To confound or get the better of in an argument, to quiz, bamboozle, to outsmart; to perplex 5. To delay, linger, dawdle, wait 6. tr. and intr. To drag (the feet) slowly and heavily, to walk along slowly, to take halting steps. II. n. 1. A hindrance, delay, or cause of delay 2. A tangle, a muddle 3. A ruffle so as to make untidy 4. An idle lounging person, a dawdling slut |
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13 Dec 06 - 07:55 AM (#1908298) Subject: RE: raggle-taggle From: IanC Raggle-Taggle [adj] English (sometimes Rag-Tag) - still in common usage in parts of England (like for example Cambridgeshire villages, where I originate). Meaning Scruffy, Disorganised, Unwashed. Probably onomatopoeic and certainly associated with tangled hair. I have no idea of the history, except that it was used irregularly both by my mother and grandmother. |
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14 Dec 06 - 12:29 AM (#1909077) Subject: RE: Origins of raggle-taggle From: Stilly River Sage Up until the 1830s all paper was made from rag. Rag pickers were common, and it was considered a very low end sort of job. With the industrial revolution and the development of the Fourdrinier paper making machines (putting out continuous rolls instead of hand-made sheets) the rag pickers couldn't keep up with demand so others types of paper were developed and wood cellulose won out. Linguistically things stick around a lot longer than the thing that they describe, and I think the reference to "rag" or "rag tag" has its origins in that kind of work. SRS |
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14 Dec 06 - 02:25 PM (#1909610) Subject: RE: Origins of raggle-taggle From: GUEST,petr thread drift but the one advantage of rag paper based books (being acid free) long outlast later books made after 1850 from woodcellulose based paper. |
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15 Dec 06 - 09:19 AM (#1910194) Subject: RE: Origins of raggle-taggle From: leeneia My dictionary says that "raggle" is a noun meaning rag or shred. "Taggle" is a verb meaning to tag or follow. My hat is off to the person (IanC's ancestor, perhaps) who combined the two words to make a memorable combination. |
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15 Dec 06 - 09:48 AM (#1910224) Subject: RE: Origins of raggle-taggle From: Fiona I wonder if it's the same root as this? Hark! Hark! The dogs do bark! The beggars are coming to town: Some in rags, some in tags And one in a velvet gown Some info on the origins here, Elizabethan poor law fx |