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18 Dec 06 - 10:26 AM (#1912634) Subject: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Bernard Has anyone else noticed an annoying (for me!) new trend in the way two letter abbreviations such as PC (for Police Constable, Personal Computer, etc.) are appearing, particularly in the press and the BBC News website? It seems trendy, now, for the abbreviation to become Pc - possibly because that's what an automatic spelling corrector often changes it to be. Okay, I'm a pedant - but I do find it a little strange that this is creeping in by stealth. So... does anyone know the reason, other than journalists' laziness, why this is becoming the norm? Or does no-one really care one way or the other?? ;o) |
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18 Dec 06 - 10:33 AM (#1912640) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Bill D It's worse than that. People who use a phrase in any kind of a semi-regular way are beginning to affect a 'need' to have an acronym (which I think you meant, rather than just abbreviation) for the phrase....as MUP for "Most Used Phrases". It all upsets me...but then I'm just a GOM (Grumpy Old Man) |
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18 Dec 06 - 10:38 AM (#1912645) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Amos ...and they are FLAs (flaming linguistic assholes). A |
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18 Dec 06 - 10:42 AM (#1912651) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Bernard TBT! (Too Bloody True!) |
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18 Dec 06 - 10:42 AM (#1912652) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Bill D perhaps ARIs (Anal Retentive Idiots) |
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18 Dec 06 - 10:46 AM (#1912655) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: artbrooks The ubiquitousness of the spell-checker has resulted in the rapid transition of all writers and editors into UTPRs (Unable To Proof Read). |
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18 Dec 06 - 11:00 AM (#1912667) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Bernard Yup. I think there is a subtle distinction between acronyms and abbreviations, though... An abbreviation SHOULD have full stops (periods) after each letter, but not in an acronym... N.S.P.C.C., R.S.P.C.A., P.C., U.S.A. - all are abbreviations - or that's what I was told in the dark ages when I was at primary school! Acronyms are abbreviations which are supposed to approximately spell a word, which is different - hence the full stops are dropped. At least, I think so...! |
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18 Dec 06 - 11:11 AM (#1912678) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Shaneo Perhaps this is not the right place for this , but can someone tell me what xmas means , is it the lazy way of spelling Christmas ? or do people just want to remove Christ out of Christmas . As a Christian I find this offensive . |
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18 Dec 06 - 11:24 AM (#1912695) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: jeffp The X represents the Greek letter Chi, which is the first letter in Christ. Nothing unChristian about it. |
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18 Dec 06 - 11:26 AM (#1912697) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: wysiwyg As well as a cross. ~S~ |
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18 Dec 06 - 11:33 AM (#1912710) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: GUEST,meself "As a Christian I find this offensive ." Aren't there enough things in this world for any sane and caring and/or Christian person to find offensive without dreaming up new ones? |
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18 Dec 06 - 11:34 AM (#1912712) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Amos So nothing to get uncrossed about... A |
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18 Dec 06 - 11:40 AM (#1912719) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: GUEST,Madelyn Maybe so, Jeff and WYSIWYG, but it's exactly what I write when I want to de-religiate the word. For you, the X "represents a cross", and "represents a letter in the Greek alphabet which is the first letter in Christ", but y'all are stretching things a bit to keep it how you want it to be. I'll bet neither of you actually use "xmas" to represent the holiday. Because actually, it doesn't. "Xmas" is a colloquially comman way of writing the name of the holiday and removing the myth-focus. Its very ability to remove Christ from Christmas is what makes it a potent word. |
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18 Dec 06 - 11:45 AM (#1912727) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: GUEST,ROTFL |
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18 Dec 06 - 11:48 AM (#1912731) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: jeffp Actually, Xmas is older than you are. You are the one who is giving it a new meaning out of ignorance. Merry Xmas! |
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18 Dec 06 - 11:53 AM (#1912733) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: GUEST,meself Well, by golly, you learn something every day. I've celebrated fifty-some Christmases in this world of sin, and this is the first time I've ever heard of the suggestion that there is something less religious about the spelling "Xmas". Is this some new notion the fundamentalists have cooked up, or has it been kicking around annoying people for awhile? I do admit I live pretty far from the road ... |
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18 Dec 06 - 11:58 AM (#1912739) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: jeffp Good discussion at Wikipedia. The use of X to stand for Christ goes back to the 16th century. |
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18 Dec 06 - 12:05 PM (#1912747) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Bernard I dont have a problem with WYSIWIG... you're flaming the wrong person here!! ;o) As for Xmas... try this site! Or if you can't be bothered, here's the relevant bit: The Origin of "Xmas" The abbreviation of "Xmas" for Christmas, long reviled by many conservative and Low Church Christians, is not nearly as blasphemous as many contend. Rather than a sacrilegious removal of "Christ" from Christmas and replacing him with an unknown, as some claim, the "Xmas" abbreviation has a long history in the church. In Greek, the language in which the New Testament was first written, "chi" (c or C), which is almost identical to the Roman alphabet "X," is the first letter of the word "Christ" (cristoV, or as it would be written in older manuscripts, CRISTOS). In fact, the symbol of the fish in the early church came from using the first letter of several titles used for Jesus (Jesus Christ Son of God Savior) that when combined spelled the Greek word for fish (icquV, ichthus). In the early days of printing when typesetting was done by hand and was very tedious and expensive, abbreviations were common. The church began to use the abbreviation "X" for the word "Christ" in religious publications. From there, the abbreviation moved into general use in newspapers and other publications, and "Xmas" became an accepted way of printing "Christmas." |
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18 Dec 06 - 12:06 PM (#1912751) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Bernard Oooooooops! WYSIWYG!! That's the trouble with being a pedant... you've always got to be right...!! ;o) |
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18 Dec 06 - 01:00 PM (#1912797) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: McGrath of Harlow Nothing wrong with spelling Christmas Xmas. No different from writing "and" as "&". It shouldn't change the way it is pronounced, though. |
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18 Dec 06 - 01:09 PM (#1912801) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Shaneo So how come you don't see it being used to spell for example Christopher , Happy xmas xopher |
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18 Dec 06 - 01:16 PM (#1912806) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Schantieman Xian is used from time to time I think. But as a devout atheist, what do I know? Steve |
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18 Dec 06 - 01:20 PM (#1912807) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: jeffp And if you read the Wikipedia article I linked to, you will learn that Xtal is often used for crystal, chiefly among radio enthusiasts. |
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18 Dec 06 - 01:22 PM (#1912810) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Schantieman ...and as far as full stops go, the modern trend seems to be to leave them out of sets of initials, even when they don't make an acronym. Hence BBC, ITV (just to show my scrupulous fairness, even though the Beeb is far better than its Johnny-come-lately rival) and TLA (Three letter abbreviation - see separate thread). Some initials aren't even given as capitals - rbc for red blood cells for example. What does annoy me, though, is turning acronyms into words without acknowledging that they're acronyms - aids for AIDS is the most common. Steve |
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18 Dec 06 - 01:34 PM (#1912815) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: jeffp Interesting thing I found at reference.com. An abbreviation formed from inital letters without forming a word, such as BBC, is called an initialism. If it forms a word, it is an acronym. And not all abbreviations have always been capitalized. The old state abbreviations, for example. Minn., Md., Penn., etc. And etc. for example. And only one word of the phrase is abbreviated in that one and a space is removed! English are a funny language indeed. |
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18 Dec 06 - 01:42 PM (#1912825) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: JohnInKansas Shaneo - The X as a symbol for THE CHRIST is so entrenched that using it for xopher would border on blasphemy - - or is that sacrilege(?) A common problem with acronyms is with the word processors' "autocorrect" funcion. People do have a tendency to "hang" on the shift key, so that "doubled-capitals" are a very common typo. Most word processors can be set to automatically convert "doubles" to a single capital followed by lower case for the rest - sometimes brutally instisting on the change - and that correction is often a default setting. That might be the source of the "Pc" cited above. Less literate persons may have picked up the notion that "that's how the computer does it, so it must be right." (?????) I haven't seen lower-casing in acronyms done deliberately by anyone over the (mental?) age of 9. ... .... much. But then I don't follow BBC all that much. Since the autocorrect init caps is handy, the fix is to use the "autoreplace as you type" function to tell the wordprocessor that "Pc" is to be replaced by "PC," etc. The autocorrect happens first, and autoreplace will correct it back. This is a very big deal with companies that mix u.c. and l.c. in their company names, especially those that use an intital lower case with an uppercase following, so the fix is handy to know. There is a trend toward not having editors and typesetters in the "news publication" business. What the reporter (now called an editor via title inflation) keys in is what gets printed, with minimal processing by dumb "formatter" programs. Perhaps BBC reporters (excuse me .... editors) just don't know how to use the programs the IT departments gave them. John |
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18 Dec 06 - 01:43 PM (#1912826) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Scoville There was a cartoon that used to run in my college newspaper (drawn by a student). One "episode" dealt with the rampant proliferation of acronyms on campus, which had pretty much reached the level of being a separate language. Anyway, the protagonist character went into an acronym-hallucination and was found crouched on the floor of the laundry room by another student, who asked, "RUOK?", to which he replied, "FU". |
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18 Dec 06 - 01:51 PM (#1912835) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Wolfgang What does annoy me, though, is turning acronyms into words without acknowledging that they're acronyms Or when the acronym is not only turned into a noun but even into a verb: "I got flaked" "non-radared airstrips" "I got my eyes lasered". "a bug snafuing the list order" Wolfgang |
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18 Dec 06 - 02:54 PM (#1912886) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: HuwG "The ubiquitousness of the spell-checker has resulted in the rapid transition of all writers and editors into UTPRs (Unable To Proof Read). " Shouldn't that be "ubiquity" ? |
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18 Dec 06 - 03:34 PM (#1912917) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Mr Happy One of my all time favourites: EETPU!! [Electrical, Electronic, Telecommunications, and Plumbing Union] |
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18 Dec 06 - 04:43 PM (#1913000) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Doug Chadwick Has anyone else noticed an annoying (for me!) new trend in the way two letter abbreviations such as PC (for Police Constable, Personal Computer, etc.) are appearing, particularly in the press and the BBC News website? Why get upset about two letter abbreviations when you're quite happy to use a three letter one for the British Broadcasting Corporation. Anyway, PC for Police Constable is hardly a new trend. DC |
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18 Dec 06 - 04:49 PM (#1913005) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Leadfingers WHY is abbreviation such a long word ?? |
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18 Dec 06 - 05:02 PM (#1913015) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Bernard Erm, Dc, this is what I was beefing about, not the actual abbreviation DC!! ;o) |
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18 Dec 06 - 05:26 PM (#1913034) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Liz the Squeak And why bother abbreviating World Wide Web.... to abbreviate it, you use 9 syllables instead of 3. The abbreviation WWW is longer than the original! LTS |
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18 Dec 06 - 05:37 PM (#1913046) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Doug Chadwick Oh, I see. Sorry about that Bernard. I missed the point. DC |
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18 Dec 06 - 05:58 PM (#1913063) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: artbrooks Ubiquitousness and ubiquity have (slightly) different meanings, and I meant the former. |
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18 Dec 06 - 09:49 PM (#1913232) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Donuel I see little oval stickers on the back of cars. One said OBX. I took it to mean obnoxious. I really means the people had visited the Outer Banks of Carolina. |
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19 Dec 06 - 03:15 AM (#1913353) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Liz the Squeak I flew over America once.... had to get off the plane at Baltimore, go through customs, back on the same plane and over to Los Angeles where we got off, through customs again and then changed airlines. LA airport code is well suited to them, because they were certainly LAX in sending our luggage on. It was a week before it caught up with us. LTS |
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19 Dec 06 - 05:30 AM (#1913401) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Wolfgang The abbreviation WWW is longer than the original! We are pleased with it: Veh veh veh Wolfgang |
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19 Dec 06 - 09:02 AM (#1913543) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Bernard Good, innit?! ;o) |
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19 Dec 06 - 10:28 AM (#1913646) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Cluin I got a Christmas card with a sideways smiley in it. |
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19 Dec 06 - 11:12 AM (#1913707) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Bernard 'Appen you were just looking at it sideways?! |
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19 Dec 06 - 06:50 PM (#1914182) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: JohnInKansas They deliver Cluin's mail to him lying in the gutter? John |
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20 Dec 06 - 09:19 AM (#1914686) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: clueless don JohnInKansas, I appreciated your 18 Dec 06 - 01:42 PM message. We spoke in another thread about the trouble I have with Microsoft Word, but one thing I did manage to do is turn off the autocorrect feature. As a result, I don't get "E.g." when what I want is "e.g.", or "I.e." when what I want is "i.e." (and yes, I do sometimes begin a sentence with one of those abbreviations.) Sort of relevant to this thread is the fact that a member of another list I follow will consistently write "smth" when what he wants to say is "something". I did find this on some online list of abbreviations, but he is the only person I have ever seen actually use it. It drives me nuts, since even though I now know what it stands for, my brain can't help interpreting "smth" as "smith". Don |
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20 Dec 06 - 10:07 AM (#1914744) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Cluin I forgot to let go of the ball. |
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22 Dec 06 - 06:45 AM (#1916552) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Bernard Don - just as you do, I find it particularly irritating when people send me an email with 'text' abbreviations (such as 'ur' for 'your', etc.). As far as I'm aware, such abbreviations are used by texters simply because of the constraints of the system - most mobiles have limited text memory, and the keypad isn't exactly ideal for typing purposes. Yes, I do know that such abbreviations originated in emails and bulletin boards, but that was in the days of very slow dial-up modems... Maybe it's just me, but I find it somewhat insulting that someone isn't prepared to make that tiny bit of effort to use correct spelling and grammar, except, of course, for comic purposes... I'm getting old, aren't I?!! I'll be my own grandpaw soon! |
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23 Dec 06 - 12:47 AM (#1917271) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Desert Dancer Hey, gramps, once upon a time folks signed letters "Yr affectionate son, Thos. Pyewacket". I guess there's nothing new under the sun! |
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23 Dec 06 - 10:24 AM (#1917439) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Bernard That would be very misleading, though, unless their name really was Thomas Pyewacket...!! ;o) Seems odd, though, to abbreviate a short word, but not a long one... |
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23 Dec 06 - 12:36 PM (#1917522) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Bill D not so odd..."Your fect son, T. Wacke". |
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23 Dec 06 - 01:09 PM (#1917542) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Anne Lister On my first visit to the US I was totally perplexed by the street sign that read "PED XING". One person's abbreviation is another's abomination and confusion, I think. Anne |
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23 Dec 06 - 05:07 PM (#1917698) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Bernard Erm... ys, Bl...!! |
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07 Feb 07 - 05:30 PM (#1960419) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Scrump It annoys me in the UK when I see road signs with abbreviated place names, for no obvious reason. For instance - one of the most extreme examples I can think of - on the M6 there are signs M'cr for Manchester. There is enough room to get the full word on the signs, so I can't see any good reason for it. I can only assume the signmakers were paid by the letter or something. OK, they might have to pay more for the full word, but they only have to pay for it once - these signs last for decades. Anyone have any other examples of this annoying singwriting laziness? |
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07 Feb 07 - 06:23 PM (#1960480) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Uncle_DaveO Jeffp mentioned the thought that And not all abbreviations have always been capitalized. The old state abbreviations, for example. Minn., Md., Penn., etc. And etc. for example. There's a misconception which is widespread. MN, MD, PA, et al., are not abbreviations. They are postal codes. On the contrary, Minn., Md., and Penn. are abbreviations, and still proper, though most of us don't use them any more because of the popular confusion with the postal codes under the ZIP. Note that ZIP (not Zip or zip) is an acronym for Zone Improvement Plan. The idea of the ZIP was to move the Postal Service down the field toward computerization. Because MN, MD, PA, et al. are not abbreviations, it's not necessary to put a comma in the line on your envelope where you consign your letter of Philadelphia PA or Minneapolis MN. Dave Oesterreich |
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07 Feb 07 - 06:26 PM (#1960486) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Bill D Uncle Dave...you realize there are penalties for injecting reason and clarity into a silly debate! |
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08 Feb 07 - 07:22 AM (#1960969) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Bernard Yes, Scrump... I think "W'gton" for "Warrington" is dwnrt stpd! And they are too easy to misread as "Wigan" in poor light/visibility!! Pity help someone who doesn;t know the area... |
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08 Feb 07 - 10:50 AM (#1961185) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Scrump Aye Bernard. But at least they've got the signs for t'Pier, to make it easier to find Wiggin. |
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08 Feb 07 - 11:56 AM (#1961260) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Homeless "new trend in the way two letter abbreviations such as PC ... are appearing" "So... does anyone know the reason, other than journalists' laziness, why this is becoming the norm?" "I do know that such abbreviations originated in emails and bulletin boards, but that was in the days of very slow dial-up modems." Having been working with computers since the days of 300 baud modems, I can tell you that the short cuts weren't due only to modem speed. Frequently, people who had never worked with a typewriter had a hard time finding letters on the keyboard, and would often use shortcuts so as to type less. Those of us who could type, when involved in real time chats (meaning both parties saw each keystroke come up as it was typed) sometimes used shorthand to make the conversation go quicker. Most people can read much quicker than even the fastest typers can type. Another thing to keep in mind is that many of the kids graduating college now have always had computers. The big home computer boom was roughly 20 years ago. So your new journalists have been using computer shorthand literally all their lives. They don't know any different. I have a friend who is an English teacher, who once related a story about how she was trying to explain to a student why "LOL" was not acceptable in a composition. All their lives they've been immersed in digital shorthand. Finally, regarding signs/press- I was taught in high school that rules of grammar were broken as a cost saving measure. At the time, we were learning about capitalization in article titles. We were told that headlines *should* be capitalized, but were not because capital letters used more ink than lower case, thus reducing the cost. The same would hold true for abbreviations/acronyms. Signs are the same. While any given sign probably doesn't save much, when you have to print hundreds of signs, small costs add up. |
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08 Feb 07 - 12:28 PM (#1961289) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Scrump how ignrnt da kids of 2day R LOL |
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08 Feb 07 - 04:07 PM (#1961559) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Schantieman And then there was the PR (!) employee at the BBC who managed to change his job title to "Engineering & Intelligence Education & Information Officer" just so that he could announce the initialised version of it when he answered the 'phone. Elderly fellow, name of McDonald, I think. Steve |
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09 Feb 07 - 02:04 PM (#1962459) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Bernard Did he have a farm, by any chance? |
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09 Feb 07 - 02:19 PM (#1962475) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Bernard Ummmm... Homeless... "new trend in the way two letter abbreviations such as PC ... are appearing" "So... does anyone know the reason, other than journalists' laziness, why this is becoming the norm?" "I do know that such abbreviations originated in emails and bulletin boards, but that was in the days of very slow dial-up modems." The last quote is out of context, and had little or nothing to do with the original query, which was basically... Why Pc instead of P.C.? IN OTHER WORDS, WHY IS THE SECOND LETTER LOWER CASE?!!! For that matter, where did the full stops (periods) go? |
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09 Feb 07 - 02:21 PM (#1962478) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Bernard Naah, I'm not being tetchy, just having a larf...! |
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17 Feb 07 - 06:37 PM (#1971067) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: bubblyrat I always thought that ZIP was Zone Improvement Program ??( not plan) ? Anyway----my father worked,as a civilian radio operator,for many years at RAF Bampton ( yes,Morris-dance Bampton ) where a lot of the work / traffic involved the Met.Office. He always referred to the weather,in writing,as 'WX', and also,of course ,to Transmit & Receive as 'TX' & 'RX'. In the mid-sixties, they started to send paper images of weather maps ,using special machines & heat-sensitive paper. These were originally called " Facsimile " machines,which was soon shortened to 'FAX'---in case you ever wondered where 'FAX'came from !!! |
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17 Feb 07 - 06:40 PM (#1971072) Subject: RE: BS: New trend in abbreviations? From: Jean(eanjay) It's the abbreviations on this site that I struggle with. I feel such a fool when I have to ask!
-Joe Offer- |