Info on: Master McGrath

Subject: Info on: Master McGrath
From: GUEST,Pete
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 07:27 PM

There is a verse in Master McGrath that I don't understand. Can anyone enlighten me? It is: "Rose gave the first turn WHICH ACCORDING TO LAW, FOR THE SECOND WAS GIVEN BY MASTER McGRATH...". What does this line mean?
Pete

Subject: RE: Info on: Master McGrath
From: GUEST,Guest, Big Tim
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 02:07 AM

I take it to mean: according to the rules, regulations, the "laws", of the "sport" of hare coursing. Points are awarded for various sorts of "turns" of the hare by the dogs.

Subject: RE: Info on: Master McGrath
From: ard mhacha
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 03:48 AM

It`s a cracker of a song, but, a cruel sport, thankfully it will soon be a part of history, like bull-baiting and cock-fighting.

Subject: RE: Info on: Master McGrath
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 07:36 PM

The sport is not in the death of the hare, but the speed and agility of the greyhound.
Coursing in Ireland is well regulated and it is deemed a failure if too many hares are killed in a days coursing.

Anumber of "escapes" are incorporated in the course to help the hare evade the hounds.

The sight of a greyhound at full stretch is a thing of beauty.
There is never any pleasure taken in the kill and the sport certainly can't be equated to cock fighting, bull baiting ,or fox hunting.

I'v trained greyhounds for the race track all my life, and never used live rabbits or hares in training.
Most hounds are "racing mad" by instinct and need no encouragment...Ake

Subject: RE: Info on: Master McGrath
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 07:59 PM

That 'which' that sneaked in confuses matters - the line more normally runs

"Rose gave the first turn according to law"

The implication is that it was a close thing as to which dog scored, but Rose won it. Here is a site that gives the rules.

Hare coursing is now illegal,in England, but not in Ireland (either jurisdiction).

Subject: RE: Info on: Master McGrath
From: GUEST,Guest, Big Tim
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 03:40 AM

Hare coursing is temporarily banned in Northern Ireland, while the Government consider long term policy.

In the Republic, muzzled dogs are used, so while the hare isn't torn to bits, it is still subjected to great trauma.

The most recent, and final, Waterloo Cup in England was last month brought forward to beat the recently introduced ban.

Subject: RE: Info on: Master McGrath
From: GUEST,Fullerton
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 04:44 AM

"Fair Law" is the head start that is given to the hare before greyhounds are released. It's about 150 yards.

There has been some controversy over this in the coursing world over the last few years. The "law" has been getting longer and longer.

This year's Waterloo was won by Shashi.

This year's Waterloo will NOT be the last.

Mcgrath of harlow -- the rules given in your link are rather innaccurate. No points have been awarded for a kill for a few years.

The song describes how Master Mcgrath was beaten on the first part of the race. This is usually decisive. Only an exceptional dog could recover the lead and regain the points to win the overall race.

The song seems to confuse the "the law" with the first turn.

Subject: RE: Info on: Master McGrath
From: dulcimer
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 06:18 AM

There is a momument to Master McGrath outside Waterford.

Subject: RE: Info on: Master McGrath
From: ard mhacha
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 06:39 AM

Good on you Akenaton, there are few if any greyhound men in and around my wee patch is as caring as you.

I have seen a Greyhound owner carrying a live rabbit to his dogs, I was told on more than one occasion a dog is no good without "a kil", also on my daily walks, greyhound owners I stop and chat to have their dogs properly muzzled and neatly groomed, stopping the same owners a few months later I notice the dog is again as previously stated, this time a different dog.

The fact that it is a different dog always prompts the question, "where is the nice wee brindle" and the nice wee brindle, not running fast enough, was "put down", I have rarely if ever came across an owner with an old greyhound, just how many are "put down" in the prime of health is a question only the Greyhound fraternity could answer, yes, it`s a cruel sport for both hounds and hare.

Subject: RE: Info on: Master McGrath
From: GUEST,Guest, Big Tim
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 09:46 AM

I hate to go to the dogs and split hares (!), but I read somewhere that the start is 80 yards. It not very "fair", as the dogs being much faster than the hares, soon close the gap.

This year's WC will be the last legal one, unless the law is changed.(Vote Tory!).

Where did "Rose" in the song come from? She wasn't one of the dogs beaten in the final in any of the Master's winning three years. Official results supplied by National Coursing Club are,

1868
Winner: Master McGrath. Runner-up: Cock Robin.

1869
Winner: Master McGrath. Runner-up: Bab-at-the-Bowster.

1870
Winner: Sea Cove. Runner-up: Bendimere.
(This was the year that the Master fell in the River Alt and got nearly drownded!).

1871
Winner: Master McGrath. Runner-up: Pretender.

So, was "Rose" one of those eliminated in an earlier round? Or, just an invention to symbolise, "England"? Since "Babs" is mentioned in the song, perhaps it was written after the 1869 event?

Subject: RE: Info on: Master McGrath
From: GUEST,Guest, BigTim
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 09:52 AM

"If this barbaric practice were carried out on domesticated animals, the people involved would probably be sent to prison and banned from keeping animals for life. And that's as it should be".

Paul McCartney, 2003.

Subject: RE: Info on: Master McGrath
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 04:44 PM

Thanks for the kind words Ard. The fate of retired dogs has ,asyou say always been a blight on the sport.
I,m afraid the gambling element leads to a continual search for better dogs, and many healthy animals are put down for being too slow.

Personally I have almost always been able to "home" my retired dogs, as greyhounds have a lovely laid back temperament in retirment.

I also have two beautiful ex-racers, who allow me to lodge with them ,as long as I dont make too much noise, chew the furniture ,or piss on the carpet....Ake

Subject: RE: Info on: Master McGrath
From: ard mhacha
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 04:52 PM

I tell you Ake, you are a rare breed, living in Grehound country I could go on to relate some horror stories regarding this lovely animal, but I will spare you.      I despair of anything being done to alleviate the cruelty to a friendly loving breed of dog.

Subject: RE: Info on: Master McGrath
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 09:30 PM

"the rules given in your link are rather innaccurate. No points have been awarded for a kill for a few years."

Well, the song does start:

Eighteen sixty nine beingn the date of the year...