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Subject: Cotton Eye Joe History From: GUEST,Ms.B Date: 18 Feb 00 - 10:44 PM I'm performing a version of Cotton Eye Joe with my fifth graders for the spring concert. I read the lyrics posted here and they're quite different from the lyrics in the music book I have. Does anyone know any history about this song? |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cotton Eye Joe History From: katlaughing Date: 18 Feb 00 - 10:57 PM Ms. B, We had a HUGE discussion on this last year, that started with an innocent question similiar to yours, which I ahd posted. I will go find the thread and put a link in this one for you, so that you may read what all was said. It was very interesting and very informative. I'll be back in a few. katlaughing |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cotton Eye Joe History From: katlaughing Date: 18 Feb 00 - 11:02 PM Here is the one I mentioned. Welcome to the Mudcat. Hope this helps. Come back and join us when you have some time to "take your shoes off and set us spell". All the best, katlaughing |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cotton Eye Joe History From: katlaughing Date: 18 Feb 00 - 11:04 PM Oh shoot! Sorry, I didn't proofread and I only led you to the first posting of that thread. Here is a link to the whole thread. Thanks, kat |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cotton Eye Joe History From: wysiwyg Date: 19 Feb 00 - 01:15 PM I would suspect that many who have done this song just do what we do with Flop eared Mule-- start from some point of understanding, and make up whatever comes in a particular evening. There may be a historic basis but it has probably been eclipsed by now by a waelth of interpretations. The Bible presents the same problems... we have to use it as we understand it now and then we can also use it more and more accurately in our lives when we understand the times and idioms of its origin. F'rinstance, the word [submit] so many people have trouble with has quite lovely connotations in the Hebrew and Greek. Everyone just does the best they cn to use language well, and look at all the *sh*t* that still happens. BTW, a good combo of bumber stickers is, from the left, "Shit Happens" and right next to it, "One Day at a Time." |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cotton Eye Joe Sheet Music From: GUEST,ROCKBAR Date: 01 Oct 04 - 06:17 AM |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cotton Eye Joe History From: GUEST,who is the Original artist?????? Date: 24 Jan 07 - 10:43 PM please let me know who the original artist is on this song. it is driving me crazy! there are so many artists who sing this song! |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cotton Eye Joe History From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 24 Jan 07 - 10:55 PM Our old friend, Joe Anonymous, contributed the words to this old fiddle tune. Please see other threads linked at top. |
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Subject: Cotton Eyed Joe From: GUEST,Larry Wright Date: 14 Aug 07 - 12:53 PM OK, you guys REALLY want to know where cotton eyed joe came from???? Way back when the 49ers were mining and were basically without women. The ballad comes from poking fun at the means in which the miners satisfied themselves. Think about it... There are a number of songs like this but.... IF IT HADN'T BEEN FOR COTTON EYED JOE, I'D BEEN MARRIED A LONG TIME AGO.... Hold up your right hand opened toward your face. Cotton eye'd joe is the nickname of the inside of your hand. Sort of similar to rosy and her four fingers or daughters.... WHERE DID YOU COME FROM, WHERE DID YOU GO.... This is the act of self gratification... otherwise known as masturbation.... This information is not documented and came from my great grandfather, verified by his friends the Foggy Mountain Boys.... Earl Scruggs and Lester Flatt... In case you were wondering.... |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cotton Eye Joe History From: open mike Date: 14 Aug 07 - 05:27 PM i just listened to the Red Clay Rambler's version of this today and i do think there are other explanations that make more sense. there is an objectionable line in one version about beating Joe and mention the "papa had a man called cotton eyed joe" meaning a slave. IT also mentions that the women liked to dance with him. I have alsoheard Dodie Kallick sing it..there is a link to listen to her recordings on another mud (cat) thread. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cotton Eye Joe History From: Dave the Gnome Date: 15 Aug 07 - 11:36 AM What happened to my posts? Did I offend someone? :D
I'm sure you didn't offend anybody, and I'm sure none of your messages were deleted. We've had a problem with disappearing posts. It happens to me about once a week or two, so I always try to check my posts to make sure they're there. We haven't been able to find a cause, since it happens only once every great while. I checked the thread, and there are no deleted messages. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cotton Eye Joe History From: GUEST,coyote breath w/o cookie Date: 15 Aug 07 - 03:46 PM Ms Richie has a nice version. I know that line as "Don't you remember, don't you know, daddy WORKED a man called cotton-eyed Joe?" CB |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cotton Eye Joe History From: Dave the Gnome Date: 16 Aug 07 - 04:44 AM Thanks Joe. All I was saying was that I tend to believe Larry, apart from one thing which I will address. Remember, with folk music, if it makes sense it is about someone dying. If it doesn't make sense it is about sex:-) The only argument I would have with Larry's theory is that it seems more likely to be a euphomism for the penis rather than the hand. The 'eye' and 'cotton' make more sense. The 'beating' of Joe becomes another euphomism. Daddy had a man called... ditto. And it explains why the ladies liked to dance with him! Where did you come from, where did you go becomes perfectly clear and so on. Yes? |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cotton Eye Joe History From: Snuffy Date: 16 Aug 07 - 09:09 AM So Cotton Eye Joe is the Hogeye man, then? |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cotton Eye Joe History From: Dave the Gnome Date: 16 Aug 07 - 09:24 AM Or the one-eyed trouser snake:-) My brother Billy had a ten foot willy and he showed it to the girl next door She thought it was a snake an she hit it with a rake and now it's only five foot four. :D |
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Subject: WHAT STATE DID IT COME FROM? From: GUEST,Matt Date: 26 Nov 07 - 07:00 PM HELP |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cotton Eye Joe History From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 26 Nov 07 - 07:27 PM What state? Cotton-eye didn't tell me. See threads above. The question may never be answered. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cotton Eye Joe History From: GUEST Date: 30 Apr 10 - 11:24 PM Who was the original artist |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cotton Eye Joe History From: GUEST Date: 13 Feb 11 - 02:05 PM Cotton Eyed Joe does not have an original artist because it predates the civial war and is a community based song like many forms of black music. Everyone gets together and sing songs. The son of slave owners provided information about the song to the library of Congress stating that the song was often sung by the slaves on his family's plantation and he grew up hearing it as a child before he faught in the civil war. He did not know who originally made the song. This song is not country nor original(country version)as country music has always borrowed and at times stole from blues and given credit, but a blues folk song sung by slaves. Even the history of country music has been manufactured and important information hidden or denied. For information concerning the origins of country music you can also reference this website in association with the Smithsonian IOnstitute: http://www.birthplaceofcountrymusic.org/node/49. It was field collected in 1929 but no recording was made of this version. Discussion of this song was provided to the library of congress. You can contact Alan Balfour: abalfour@dial.pipex.com. You can referene this web site for more information www.luckymojo.com/bluescottoneyedjoeunknown.html Thank you and please help spread the facts to combat misinformation. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cotton Eye Joe History From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 13 Feb 11 - 04:02 PM This is a poor shadow of thread 13537, the Origins thread, where several theories are discussed, some with partially supporting evidence. That the song is old (c. mid-19th C or so), most agree; the earliest date is 1909 (Perrow) although an 1875 Saturday Evening Post article has been mentioned. Most consider it to be of Black origin. The version collected by Scarborough (printed 1925) with brief score is one of the best, superior to the one in the DT. It has a great many variations, as would be expected of an old dance-play song. I doubt that any story of its origin will be agreed upon by those who have tried to trace its history. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cotton Eye Joe History From: GUEST Date: 13 Feb 11 - 08:23 PM The origins of Cottom Eyed Joe is no longer academic and never was to African Americans in particular, and is indisputable. It is a Blues folk song still sung by African Americans to this day and its origins is and never was a theory rather than fact. "Denial aint just a river in the Nile" (Mark Taine) The origins of the song was provided to the library of Congress by the son of slave owners who like many whites grew up hearing, watching, listening to African Americans who were enslaved practice their culture. This son of slave owners was also a civil war veteran who clearly stated the song was from the pre civil war era. I will repost my earlier post in response to an attempt to confuse viewers to the songs origins: Cotton Eyed Joe does not have an original artist because it predates the civial war and is a community based song like many forms of black music. Everyone gets together and sing songs. The son of slave owners provided information about the song to the library of Congress stating that the song was often sung by the slaves on his family's plantation and he grew up hearing it as a child before he faught in the civil war. He did not know who originally made the song. This song is not country nor original(country version)as country music has always borrowed and at times stole from blues and given credit, but a blues folk song sung by slaves. Even the history of country music has been manufactured and important information hidden or denied. For information concerning the origins of country music you can also reference this website in association with the Smithsonian Institute: http://www.birthplaceofcountrymusic.org/node/49. BCMA mission statement: The Birthplace of Country Music Alliance works in tandem with other organizations in the Tri-Cities to present a united effort consistent with the BCMA's mission and objectives. The BCMA also works with a variety of local, state, and national organizations and governmental bodies to help preserve and promote our region and its heritage. Cotton Eyed Joe was field collected in 1929 but no recording was made of this version. Discussion of this song was provided to the library of congress. You can contact Alan Balfour: abalfour@dial.pipex.com. You can referene this web site for more information www.luckymojo.com/bluescottoneyedjoeunknown.html Thank you and please help spread the facts to combat misinformation. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cotton Eye Joe History From: BK Lick Date: 13 Feb 11 - 08:38 PM Open Mike wrote "I have also heard Dodi Kallick sing it..there is a link to listen to her recordings on another mud (cat) thread." Here 'tis. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cotton Eye Joe History From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 13 Feb 11 - 09:44 PM There is nothing in the Birthplace Country Music link about "Cotton-Eyed Joe." The song was field-collected in 1909- See Perrow; also N. I. White, 1915-16; Scarborough 1925; Talley, etc. The "lucky mojo" site reproduces the version collected by Dorothy Scarborough and printed in 1925; Alan Balfour repeats Scarborough's introduction to the song as published in her book, On the Trail of Negro Folk Songs, pp. 68-69, and posted in thread 13537: Origins |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cotton Eye Joe History From: GUEST Date: 14 Feb 11 - 03:30 AM So long as people know it is a blues song and not what they have been lead to believe. Birthplace of Country Music was just additional reference pertaining to Country Music not the song Cotton Eyed Joe. Sorry for the typo, I meant 1909 pertaining to its collection date. 1929 was a pasted date pertaining to irrelevant information removed from another website. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cotton Eye Joe History From: GUEST,CDK Date: 14 Feb 11 - 08:44 AM Please investigate the link between "cotton eyed Joe" and "old Joe Clark" the clark family has been running a saw mill in Southwestern VA for a long long time and both songs are reputed to be about their patriarch Joe Clark. I have danced in this saw mill, which they converted to a dance hall many many years ago. It has been run continuously since then. They still play old time music every weekend and dance traditional Appalachian dances. Joe Clark is cotton eyed Joe, Patriarch of the still performing Clark family of southwestern VA. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cotton Eye Joe History From: beeliner Date: 14 Feb 11 - 02:39 PM The song was a huge European hit for the Swedish group Rednex several years ago. Didn't see this mentioned on either thread, tho' perhaps I missed it. Several versions (remix, live, cover etc.) of their arrangement are viewable on YouTube. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cotton Eye Joe History From: meself Date: 14 Feb 11 - 02:41 PM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddgyg_5FF_0 |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cotton Eye Joe History From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 14 Feb 11 - 03:03 PM Not a blues. ---------------------- Guest CDK, The Traditional Ballad Index, Cox and others have related "Old Joe Clark" to a rhyme in Halliwell, 1842, p. 135(?), apparently it begins 'When I was a little boy...', but I find this connection exceedingly tenuous. Randolph, Ozark Folk-Songs, places Old Joe with "Liza Jane," which is similar and both have verses which float between them. I would like to know more about your Joe Clark; the oldest firm references I find to the song are in Perrow and N. I. White, which puts the song (not the older tune) back to c. 1900. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cotton Eye Joe History From: GUEST Date: 14 Feb 11 - 03:31 PM Without a question an old folk blues song sung by slaves. Country has always borrowed from the blues and Cotton Eyed Joe is no exception. Still sung by African Americans today. Tell that to the library of Congress. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cotton Eye Joe History From: GUEST Date: 14 Feb 11 - 03:35 PM That the song is old (c. mid-19th C or so), most agree; the earliest date is 1909 (Perrow) although an 1875 Saturday Evening Post article has been mentioned. Most consider it to be of Black origin. (From: Q) Blues indeed. No one else would sing of cotton especially at that time in history. Plantation folk blues song without a doubt. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cotton Eye Joe History From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 14 Feb 11 - 03:47 PM Old folk song, yes. Black origin, very likely. Blues, no. And no Library of Congress listing as blues. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cotton Eye Joe History From: GUEST Date: 14 Feb 11 - 04:10 PM Like I said, tell that to the library of Congress and Blues fans everywhere. Black spirituals are Blues. On the Trail of Negro Folk Songs, pp. 265. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cotton Eye Joe History From: GUEST Date: 14 Feb 11 - 04:28 PM Additional reference material: Subject: 'NEGRO,' 'BLACK,' or 'AFRICAN-AMERICAN' SPIRITUALS From: W y s i w y G ! Date: 02 Feb 04 - 12:42 PM 'NEGRO,' 'BLACK,' or 'AFRICAN-AMERICAN' SPIRITUALS? Names By Which Spirituals Have Been Called By WYSIWYG and Q Other names this music has been known by include: Slave songs Plantation songs Sorrow songs Jubilee songs Exaltations Negro songs Cabin songs Contrabandists songs (see below) Religious Folk Songs Spiritual Folk-Songs Cotton Eyed Joe, a black folk song = Blues music in origin. To my question, "Have blues any relation to Negro folk-song?'' Handy replied instantly: " Yes — they are folk-music." On the Trail of Negro Folk Songs, pp. 265.
-Joe Offer, Forum Moderator- |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cotton Eye Joe History From: Lighter Date: 28 Dec 18 - 06:55 PM This is from a historically interesting essay by Judge George N. Aldredge of Dallas, “Plantation Life in the Old South," in the Dallas Morning News (Oct. 30, 1898). It refers explicitly to the 1850s. Aldredge was born in 1846 and joined the Confederate army as a private when he was 16. After the war he became prominent as Dallas County Attorney and then Judge of the Eleventh Judicial District. He was later a nationally known speaker on the subject of the gold standard. Besides the earliest known mention of "Cotton-Eyed Joe," Aldredge's essay includes a positive description of antebellum folk tunes played by African Americans. Though conventionally patronizing of black people, Aldredge wrote that "slavery was contrary to the genius of America." More to the point here, he implicitly recognized the ability of music to pass across class and racial barriers even before the Civil War: “There was plenty of laughter and song throughout the [slave] quarters every night, but Saturday night was the gala event of the week. Then the banjo and fiddle were brought forth and erratic feet, to perfect time, chased the glowing hours. On such occasions they were all there. No amount of ‘piousness’ could hold a negro away when ‘Cotton-eyed Joe’ and ‘Mollie, Put the Kettle On’ enriched the air. The banjo and fiddle were accompanied by a negro who could ‘pat’ in a marvelous manner. Any true southern boy would have turned away from any grand opera or brass band to listen to such a trio. Its drawing power often reached the ‘big house.’ Many a time, when I was a boy, has my father run me out of the cabin late at night, where I was assiduously delving into the mysteries of the back-step and double-shuffle, or learning to ‘cut the pigeon wing.’” |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cotton Eye Joe History From: Lighter Date: 29 Dec 18 - 12:33 PM Earlier: Edgefield (S. Carolina) Advertiser (Apr. 14, 1858): "So I sez, Noel, let's have some music to make us feel better. Sez he, Ben, ...ef you'll git Abe Lard to play 'Cotton-eyed Joe,' I'll treat to half a pint." Home Journal (Winchester, Tenn.) (July 28, 1870): "The enlivening strains of 'Possum Up a Gum Stump' and 'Cotton-Eyed Joe.'" The New North-West (Deer Lodge, Mont.) (Oct. 12, 1872): "'Cotton-Eyed Joe' is a Kansas City local editor." Home Journal (Winchester, Tenn.) (Jan. 10, 1878): "Cotton-eyed Joe, he lost his toe, Wasn't that good for cotton-eyed Joe." Evening Bulletin (Maysville, Ky.) (July 7, 1882): "In a little while Brother Rastus was moving down the street humbly singing - "'Id'a bin married forty year ago, Ef it hadn't but a bin fer Cotton-eyed Joe.' " Fort Worth Daily Gazette (Nov. 13, 1887): "Governor [Robert L. 'Bob'] Taylor of Tennessee should have known better than to make stump speeches in Ohio without his fiddle. ...[He could have played] 'Cotton-Eyed Joe' or 'Sally's Got a Bacon Rine' [sic]." Lincoln County [N.M.] Leader (Jan. 7, 1888): "We tripped the light fantastic toe to the inspiring strains of Cotton Eyed Joe and Five Miles From Home (and not a drop to drink)." Newberry (S. Carolina) Herald and News (Apr. 20, 1892): "His sable owner rolls his eyes up in gratitude for his mule's convalescence, leaving only the whites exposed; which reminds us of that good old song, 'Cotton-eyed Joe.'" The [N.Y.] Sun (June 25, 1893) [in Missouri]: "There was no cessation of 'Getting Up Stairs,' 'Cotton Eyed Joe,' 'Arkansas Traveller,' and all the melodies in Jimmie's repertory." |
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