Lyr Req: Ich hatt' einen Kameraden

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ich hatt' einen Kameraden
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 12:26 PM

The key part is

Will mir die Hand noch reichen,
Derweil ich eben lad'.
"Kann dir die Hand nicht geben,..."

This means: Comrade, since you are giving your life for our just cause, my best service to you is to continue fighting for it, just as I would have expected if it were the other way round.

In other words, the song is about a justified war, fought by convinced volunteers. Uhland and his early readers believed this to be the case when defending their countries against invadors. Those who sing or play it later, implicitely state that their own cause is equally justified and worth the sacrifice of their friends' lives and their own. They may think they praise friendship, but are in fact often tricked into praising their governments or military leaders. In the case of those Legionnaires in Vietnam, for example, the justification is highly questionable, as we all know. Not to mention the Nazis.

Also, the (possibly unrefusable) reasons for entering a war are often wrongfully transferred to specific actions, even war crimes.

Don't blame the song, but don't sing or play it, or other songs with similar messages.

I just read about Remembrance Day. Let us mourn the victims (innocent, friendly, or neither), be suspicious about justifications, and praise those acts of true heroism that resulted from self-determined valid moral motives.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ich hatt' einen Kameraden
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 12:57 PM

I don't agree at all with the above

Comrade, since you are giving your life for our just cause, my best service to you is to continue fighting for it, just as I would have expected if it were the other way round.


I think the man is dying and he does not want to die alone but the other guy is in the middle of combat and will lose his own life if he stops to respond. That simple and that profound. And a universal problem. mg

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ich hatt' einen Kameraden
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 02:04 PM

mg: if Uhland had wanted to transport that message, he would have written something like "... but the enemy keeps shooting ..." instead of "... while I am just loading my gun ...".

Nevertheless, the poem has true tragedy. The problem arises from ritual singing.

My ancestors and relatives fought in many European armies, including German. Tragic songs were and are major means of identification, much more powerful than openly jingoistic ones. If you say they were abused and misunderstood - ok, don't have them sung anyway.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ich hatt' einen Kameraden
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 02:13 PM

I say sing them anyway..unless they were written specifically to extol the Nazi philosophy of course..and soemtimes in retrospect certain lines in songs have to be modified..such as we have had to do with Stephen Foster songs...but if the songs were sung before WWII, sing them...I will sing them. They are beautiful. And some have been essentially retired that were so innocuous..about pretty scenery, girls, etc. Bring them out and sing them..and fly the flag of the country..not the regime..over their graves too. We have to respect our ancestors, and we have to respect those who died for us. We can say where they were wrong, and should. And I think most importantly write their stories up and publish them..on ancestry blogs for one thing. Most of the German soldiers could not help what they got sucked into. mg

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ich hatt' einen Kameraden
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 02:44 PM

And I think most importantly write their stories up and publish them

This is something we may agree on. And certainly I don't blame soldiers (or anyone else) collectively, even those who had convictions I don't share. However: "died for us" - that's what the regimes or the military leaders say. Who of my relatives, fighting on opposite sides, died for me?

As for Nazi philosophy, please don't believe it is monolithic. In its fringes it is rooted deeply in the past, reaches far into the future, and virtually round the world.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ich hatt' einen Kameraden
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 03:03 PM

The Uhland-Silcher song, as suggested in another thread, expresses the feelings of those who have worn a uniform, regardless of nationality. I know of no better one.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ich hatt' einen Kameraden
From: GUEST,Michael
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 05:58 AM

May I say how rich and varied I have found this thread.
I just find that "Ich hatt' einen Kameraden" is one of the most profoundly moving songs I have ever heard, in a long and mercifully apolitical life.
The line that catches my throat is:
Im gleichen Schritt und Tritt
Peace.
Michael