Lyr Req/Add: No More Fish, No Fishermen (Posen)

Subject: Lyr Req: No fish, no fishermen
From: Haruo
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 01:53 PM

At the Seattle Song Circle last night somebody (Fred Maslan I think) sang a song about the Newfoundland fisheries' demise entitled (and refrained) "No fish, no fishermen". I can find only one place in Google that gives evidence of this song's existence, here, and no lyrics or authorship details to speak of ("Shelley Posen", but is this author or singer or both?)...

Any help welcome. It was a powerful downer of a song.

Haruo

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: No fish, no fishermen
From: bobad
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 02:07 PM

No More Fish, No Fishermen
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No More Fish, No Fishermen is a song composed by Canadian folklorist Shelley Posen, about the demise of the Newfoundland fishery.[1] [2] Although it was written in 1996, it is often assumed to be a traditional song.[3] The tune is based upon "Coal Not Dole" by Kay Sutcliffe, about the death of the coal industry in northern England. "Coal Not Dole" was made popular by Coope Boyes and Simpson on their Funny Old World album, and is is in turn based on the Victorian Christmas carol, "See, Amid The Winter's Snow". It is set to the hymn tune Humility by John Goss, written in 1871.

Posen also recorded it on his CD The Old Songs Home, with a jangle pop musical arrangement reminiscent of The Byrds.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: No fish, no fishermen
From: GUEST,Arnie Naiman
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 02:07 PM

I suggest you buy the cd Heart's Delight by Finest Kind. The song was written by Shelley Posen - a brilliant songwriter, folklorist & singer.
here's the link http://www.finestkind.ca/famUS.html

Arnie

Subject: Lyr Add: NO MORE FISH, NO FISHERMEN (Posen, Goss)
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 03:01 PM

From Gabriella Gest's Songs of Newfoundland & Labrador

NO MORE FISH, NO FISHERMEN
(lyrics, Shelley Posen; Music, John Goss)

Out along the harbour reach
Boats stand dried up on the beach
Ghost-like in the early dawn
Empty, now the fish are gone.

What will become of people now?
Try to build a life somehow
Hard, hard times are back again
No more fish, no fishermen.

No more shoppers in the stores
Since the fish plant closed its doors
Men who walked a trawler's decks
Now line up for welfare cheques.

There's big "For Sale" signs everywhere
Pockets empty, cupboards bare
See it on the news at ten
No more fish, no fishermen.

Once from Ship Cove to Cape Race
Port aux Basques to Harbour Grace
Newfoundlanders fished for cod
Owing merchants, trusting God.

They filled their dories twice a day
They fished their poor sweet lives away
They could not imagine then
No more fish, no fishermen.

Back before the Second War
We could catch our fish inshore
Boats were small and gear was rough
We caught fish, but left enough.

And now there's no more fish because
The trawler fleets took all there was
We could see it coming then
No more fish, no fishermen.

Farewell now to stage and flake
Get out for the children's sake
Leave all friends and kin behind
Take whatever job you find.

There's some that say things aren't so black
They say the fish will all come back
Who'll be here to catch them then?
No more fish, no fishermen.

####.... Words: I. Sheldon Posen, Music: John Goss (©1996 Well Done Music, BMI) ....####
From the Dictionary Of Newfoundland English:
Flake - a platform built on poles and spread with boughs for drying cod-fish on the foreshore.
Stage - an elevated platform on the shore with working tables, sheds, etc, where fish are landed and processed for salting and drying, and fishing gear and supplies are stored; fishing stage.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: No fish, no fishermen
From: Haruo
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 03:18 PM

I guess the reason I couldn't find it was I was forgetting the word "more" in the title/first line/refrain. Thanks, all.

Haruo

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: No fish, no fishermen
From: Haruo
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 03:20 PM

And yes, we all commented on how Christmassy the tune sounded...

Haruo

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: No fish, no fishermen
From: Ref
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 03:48 PM

I love this piece, but haven't figured out how to do a three part harmony by myself!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: No fish, no fishermen
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 04:48 PM

If anytime you are searching for Newfoundland songs Gest is where to start. They are Mudcatters as well.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: No fish, no fishermen
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 04:49 PM

Sorry, I shot a blank! I try again:

GEST

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: No fish, no fishermen
From: Haruo
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 05:01 PM

Yes, Ref, that is a rather complicated Mudcat MIDI there, isn't it.

Haruo

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: No fish, no fishermen
From: Beer
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 06:54 PM

Bill Garrett and Sue Lothrop sing this song on their "Red Shoes C/D" and I must say it is done very well. Just love it.
Beer (adrien)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: No fish, no fishermen
From: Folkiedave
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 06:55 PM

Had the pleasure of hearing and seeing Finest Kind at the Ottawa Folk Fseticval this summer and was delighted to hear they are coming over th othe UK from middle of October - middle of November approx.

UK catters go see................

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: No fish, no fishermen
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 09:23 PM

It's the same tune John Warner used for Bring Out The Banners,
http://www.mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=10289 also in
http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=51133#778539

Subject: RE: Lyr Req/Add: No More Fish, No Fishermen (Posen)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Jul 20 - 10:58 PM

Casey says:

wiki says: The tune is based upon "Coal Not Dole" by Kay Sutcliffe and Paul Abrahams, who wrote the lyrics and melody respectively, about the death of the coal industry in northern England. "Coal Not Dole" was made popular by Coope Boyes and Simpson on their Funny Old World album, and is in turn based on the Victorian Christmas carol, "See, Amid The Winter's Snow". It is set to the hymn tune Humility by John Goss, written in 1871.


is this correct?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Lyr Req/Add: No More Fish, No Fishermen (Posen)
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 12 Jul 20 - 03:42 AM

When the Oyster band did the Kay Sutcliffe set of words it was to the tune of "There is a green hill far away", very similar . It's on a live album somewhere, I think unaccompanied with John taking the lead.

Robin

Subject: RE: Lyr Req/Add: No More Fish, No Fishermen (Posen)
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 14 Jul 20 - 03:11 PM

The words come from a poem written by Kay Sutcliffe, the wife of a Kent miner. Kay Sutcliffe; "We formed our Miners' Wives Support Group here in Aylesham at the time of the 1972-74 strike. It was very different to 1984 - more of a community support group, not very political. But we kept it together, so when it came to 1984 we already had the basis for a group. We called a meeting to relaunch the support group after hearing about the miners going back to work in Nottingham."

7:84 Theatre Company; The Garden of England; researched over ten months in the 1984 miner’s strike, first performance 13 February 1985. Music by Paul Abrahams, 'Coal Not Dole' sung by Eve Bland. (Kent is known as the Garden of England; the sight of coal mines there always came as a surprise.)

Paul Abrahams; The Garden of England; composing the music for a play about the 1984 miners’ strike. My song ‘Coal Not Dole’ (lyrics by Kay Sutcliffe) has since become a protest anthem and has been recorded by artists including the Watersons and the Oyster Band (on Little Rock to Leipzig, released 12 March 1990).

The Watersons sang 'Coal Not Dole' on 4 December 1987 at a World Music Institute concert at the Triplex 1 Theater, Borough of Manhattan Community College, New York City. This recording was included in 2001 on the Martin Carthy anthology, 'The Carthy Chronicles'.

Swan Arcade recorded 'Coal Not Dole' in April 1990 for the Hokey Pokey charity compilation 'Circle Dance'. Jim Boyes of Swan Arcade recorded it again in 1993 with Coope Boyes and Simpson for their first album 'Funny Old World', this time set to the hymn tune 'Humility' written by Sir John Goss (1800–1880) for the Christmas carol 'See, Amid the Winter's Snow'. They also contributed it to the miners' benefit compilation 'Undefeated', also in 1993. (From Mainly Norfolk)

Following this, two more songs also used the tune 'Humility';
No More Fish, No Fishermen (1996) by Shelley Posen and sung by Finest Kind.
Bring Out the Banners written by John Warner. Dave Webber and Anni Fentiman sang John Warner's song Bring Out the Banners in 2006 on their CD Unity. They commented: "John Warner wrote this song to sing at an exhibition of Union Banners at Trade Hall in Sydney in September 1997 around the time of the Australian maritime workers' dispute." (From Mainly Norfolk)

Subject: Lyr Add: AMID THE WINTER SNOW
From: Susan of DT
Date: 15 Jul 20 - 06:35 AM

The lovely tune used for No More Fish, Coal, not Dole, and Bring Out the Banners is from the older Amid the Winter Snows, which is probably why it sounded "Christmasy" to Harou.

AMID THE WINTER SNOW

See amid the winter snow
Born for us on earth below
See the tender lamb appears
Promised from eternal years

Hail thou ever blessed morn
Hail, redemption’s happy dawn
Sing through all Jerusalem
Christ is born in Bethlehem

Lo, within a manger lies
He who built the starry skies
He who throned in height sublime
Sits amid the cherubim

Say, ye holy shepherds, say
What your joyful news today?
Wherefore have you left your sheep?
On the lonely mountain steep

“As we watched at dead of night
Lo, we saw a wondrous light
Angels singing peace on earth
Told us of our Saviour’s birth

Sacred infant all devine
What a tender love was thine
Thus to come from highest bliss
Down to such a world as this

Teach, o teach us, holy Child
By thy face so meek and mild
Teach us to resemble Thee
In Thy sweet humility