Tune Req: A Land Fit For Heroes

Subject: A Land Fit For Heroes
From: AliUK
Date: 26 Nov 01 - 10:22 PM

I have the lyrics to this song but I dont have a tune. Can anyone help? The first line is...
Some thousands in England are starving,
And all through no fault of their own.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: A Land Fit For Heroes
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 26 Nov 01 - 11:09 PM

There are two copies of this at  Bodleian Library Broadside Ballads, both by Such of London; here is one:

A copy of verses on the unemployed and the great distress in England  ("Some thousands in England are starving ...") To the tune of: Cast out.  Printed c.1922 by W.C. Such, 183 & 185, Union Street, Borough, London, S.E. 1. [License note: Please buy a copy from an unemployed ex-service man.]

Lucy Broadwood and J.A. Fuller Maitland gave a set of Cast Out in their English County Songs (1893), and indicated that the usual tune was pretty close to Rosin the Beau and Green Mossy Banks of the Lea.  If nobody else gives you specifics, I'll try to sort you a midi tomorrow.

Subject: ADD: A Land Fit For Heroes
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Nov 01 - 12:57 AM

Mr. OCR had a hard time with the lyrics from the Bodleian Library, but here's what he came up with. Powerful song.
-Joe Offer-

---

Some thousands in England are starving.
And all through no fault of their own,
The troubles of poverty sharing,
And only to them it is known.
It's hard when the cupboard is empty,
And through the streets the poor men must roam,
And all the week through with nothing to do,
Yet with poor hungry children at home.


Then pity the unemployed workmen,
Who starve all the week days through,
They don't want to shirk any kind of hard work,
But, alas, they can't get it to do!

A man who is fond of his children,
To keep them alive doe, his best,
So to him it must be bewildering,
Yet brings sorrow to both parents' breast
To see his dear little ones starving,
In the midst of deep poverty hurled,
For no one can tell what they must feel,
So friendless and alone in the world.


The workman must live by his labour,
And that he needs have day by day.
And although he may have feeling neighbours
They have nothing they can give away.
For no one knows where the shoe pinches,
But those who the pain have to bear,
With no work to do, all the week through,
And just nothing but sorrow and care,

There are many in towns and in cities.
Who are walking the streets all foot sore.
They surely deserve all your pity,
As dejected they pass by your door.
At factories and workshops they're calling
But they're told the same words every day,
There's no orders in hand, all over the land,
So no wages the masters can pay.


It used to be called happy England,
But where is its happiness now?
When people are slaving in thousands,
At the factory, the loom, and the plough.
In this country there's millions of money,
But those who have got it take care,
Their sovereigns they nurse and they keep a full purse,
So the pour man can't get a share.

Then do what you can to assist them,
For they're all flesh and blood like yourselves,
Their poverty sadly oppress'd them
With no food at all on the shelves.
The help that your fellow-man's needing,
Should be given the country all through,
So help the poor man, the best way you can,
Who would work if he had it to do.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: A Land Fit For Heroes
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 27 Nov 01 - 02:04 AM

Confused now, Mr Les Barker also has a powerful version of a song called 'land fit for heroes' which is a bit more understandable than this - which frankly I find terribly difficult. It's on one of his CDs, sung by Norma Waterson, but I can't remember which one at the moment....

Pathetic aren't I!!

LTS

Subject: ADD: Homes Fit for Heroes
From: GUEST,MCP
Date: 27 Nov 01 - 06:51 AM

The Les Barker song is Homes Fit For Heroes. It was written when Edwina Currie (I think) suggested people knitted clothes for pensioners to see them through the Winter (instead of providing heating allowances?). A friend of mine thought it was half an idea, but ignored the real issue of the government coughing up money, so she sent an ounce of wool to Edwina but left off the postage.

Mick


HOMES FIT FOR HEROES (Les Barker)

They dies in their millions, your men at The Somme
And with them died the dreams for the world that they'd come from
A dream of basic freedom and for that they gave their lives
Now all that's left are widows wondering how they will survive.
Ch/Here's your home fit for heroes,
Here's your brand new dawn,
If you make it through the winter
If you wrap up warm.


For heat and light and comfort, security and health
All will be provided, if you pay for it yourself
It's a warm and a caring country if your purse if always full
But if war left you a widow better buy yourself some wool.

It's just your misfortune that your husband can't provide
He might have made a living if he hadn't gone and died
So knit yourself some mittens and knit yourself some socks
And save up for your funeral 'cause we won't buy the box.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: A Land Fit For Heroes
From: GUEST,MCP
Date: 27 Nov 01 - 07:08 AM

Incidentally the phrase was used by Lloyd George (coalition Prime Minister) in 1918 at Wolverhampton - that his government would "make Britain a fit country for heroes to live in", which wasn't quite what happened in the aftermath of the war.

Mick

Subject: RE: Tune Req: A Land Fit For Heroes
From: GUEST,AliUK on the works comp
Date: 27 Nov 01 - 12:18 PM

Thanks guys. I came across this song in a collection and was really taken with the lyrics. Malcolm if you could get me a midi I will be sooooo grateful :o).I was also familiar with the Les Barker song and think that they share a thematic link.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: A Land Fit For Heroes
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 27 Nov 01 - 05:31 PM

They certainly share the same quote root.... I'm going daft in me old age for not getting the title right.

Sorry chaps, let the side down and all....

LTS

Subject: ADD: I'm a Man that's Cast Out
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 02:54 PM

As promised, a midi of the tune for Some Thousands in England are Starving.  Since it belongs to another song, I'll post that first; though folksong collectors seem usually to have called it I'm A Man That's Done Wrong To His Parents, it appears on broadsides as (The) Cast Out.

I'M A MAN THAT'S DONE WRONG TO MY PARENTS

(Collected by H. Strachey from unnamed sources)

I'm a man that's in trouble and sorrow,
That once was lighthearted and gay;
Not a coin in this world can I borrow,
Since my own I have squandered away.
I once wronged my father and mother,
Till they turned me out from their door,
To beg, starve, or die, in the gutter to lie,
And ne'er enter their dwellings no more.

Chorus:

I'm a man that's done wrong to my parents,
And daily I wander about,
To earn a small mite for my lodging at night,
God help me, for now I'm cast out !

Then my father will say when he meets me,
"You beggar, you still are at large,
And mind, Sir, that you don't come near me,
Or by heaven I will give you in charge."
My mother, poor thing, 's broken-hearted,
To meet me she ofttimes will try,
For to give me a crown with her head hanging down
And a tear rolling out of her eye.

I'd a sister that married a squire,
She'll ne'er look, nor speak unto me;
Because in this world she's much higher
And rides in her carriage so free.
Then the girl that I once loved so dearly,
Is dying broken-hearted, they say,
And there on her bed she is lying, near dead,
And now for her outcast doth pray.

Kind friends, now from me take a warning,
From what I have just said to you;
And I hope in my dress you won't scorn me,
For you don't know what you may come to;
And I try to be honest and upright,
And do all the good that I can,
And I try all I know to get on in this world,
And prove to my friends l'm a man.

"The tune was heard whistled by a labourer at Shillingham. Dorsetshire, in 1889, and was atterwards taken down from a collier at Bishop Sutton, Somerset.  Come down, then, and open the door, love is often sung to this tune in both counties, but the words of this song have not been procurable.  Compare the tune with  Old Rosin the Beau  in Barrett's English Folk Songs, the editor of which claims that it is a modification of an older song, and that Whyte Melville's Wrap me up in my old stable jacket is an adaptation of a more modern form.  Compare also The Old Farmer and The Gallant Hussar in the same collection, also Adam and Eve in Baring Gould's Songs of the West, and  Green Mossy Banks of the Lea,  a song well known to the oldest singers in Sussex and Surrey.  J Markordt in his ballad opera of Tom Thumb has a similar air, In hurry post·haste for the license.  The F sharp in the above tune is sometimes sung natural throughout, which is probably right."

-Song and notes from English County Songs, Lucy Broadwood and J.A. Fuller Maitland, 1893.

Baring Gould noted a very similar set from Sam Fone of Blackdown, Mary Tavy in Devon; a pdf of this (with a line of melody missing at the time of writing) can be seen at Martin Graebe's  Sabine Baring-Gould and the folk songs of South-West England:

I'm A Man That's Done Wrong To His Parents (PDF).

A midi made from the notation in English County Songs goes to the  Mudcat Midi Pages,  and can be heard meanwhile via the  South Riding Folk Network  site:

I'm a Man that's done Wrong to my Parents (Cast Out): midi.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: A Land Fit For Heroes
From: AliUK
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 09:59 PM

Thanks Malcolm, great site those yorkshire folk have. Shame theres no link to the mudcat.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: A Land Fit For Heroes
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 10:16 PM

We've been concentrating on regional information so far.  I'll be adding internet resource links to here and other places as soon as I have time, but there's only me running the site at present!

Subject: When and who wrote "The Cast Out" song?
From:
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 03:30 PM

Dear Sir or Madam,
                  My Father was born in 1908 and told me (when I was a child) that there was a Fishmonger in Hull (Yorkshire, England) who used to push his barrow from street to street, singing the following song:-
      "I'm a man that's done wrong to my parents, and daily I wander about, to earn a small mite, for my lodgings at night, god help me, for now I'm cast out. FISH - FRESH FISH."
      I have just learned that this is the chorus line from the song "The Cast Out".
      Please could you tell me who wrote this song and when it was written.
      Thanking you in anticipation.
            Adrian Hanwell. [e-mail]

Subject: RE: Tune Req: A Land Fit For Heroes
From: GUEST,mark bamfield
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 04:22 AM

go to you tube and type in 17th 21st lancers. you'll have the tune.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: A Land Fit For Heroes
From: stallion
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 05:05 AM

Ok I know I am lazy but why 17th/21st Lancers, and does anyone know anything about a row between 17th/21st and 2nd Royal West Kents at the races in Klangenfurt?

Subject: RE: Tune Req: A Land Fit For Heroes
From: stallion
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 05:10 AM

OK is that tune the regimental march/song?

Subject: RE: Tune Req: A Land Fit For Heroes
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 01:07 PM

Well damn me, for some time I've on and off been fiddling with a partly written song flowing from that Lloyd George phrase and the well known royal phrase "Something must be done", and it looks as if I was beaten to the concept by a hundred years or so.

Memo to self, get up earlier in morning.....