Origin: Cob a coalin

Subject: RE: Origin: Cob a coalin
From: Jack Campin
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 07:05 AM

Much of Lancashire was garrisoned for most of the Roman occupation by troops from the far north-east of the Empire who spoke an Iranian language. Never mind the Celts, we're talking Zoroastrian fire worship here.

Subject: RE: Origin: Cob a coalin
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 07:06 AM

Bunches of blue ribbons feature in various mummming plays about St George etc and also in the children's game Mary sat a-weepin' which is sung to the same tune as Cob-a-Coalin'.
So it seems to be a case of floating ribbons, chunks of flying mantlepiece plaster and and pepper pots. And mondegreens.

Subject: RE: Origin: Cob a coalin
From: Paul Burke
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 07:09 AM

Thanks Jack, but what precisely is the significance of non-shape-shifting pepperpots in 3rd century Zoroastrianism?

And what does the pepper pot do twixt neet and mornin'?

Subject: RE: Origin: Cob a coalin
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 07:10 AM

True enough Diane, it's just that they don't seem to drift in untill the late 1960s

L in C

Subject: RE: Origin: Cob a coalin
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 08:38 AM

I bet they worshipped fires a bloody site more after spending a wet winter in Lancashire...

D

Subject: RE: Origin: Cob a coalin
From: Jack Campin
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 12:48 PM

Pepper is as direct a symbol for fire as you could get. The pepper pot is the human body with the holy fire inside it. And Zoroastrianism being a monotheistic religion, it's saying that the fire which is Ahura Mazda is the whole ball of wax, even at night when the physical sun is out of sight.

Now can somebody tell Mr Walkaboutsverse that he's been singing a song imported by Iranian immigrants?

Subject: RE: Origin: Cob a coalin
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 04:54 PM

Well it was sung by our Mike Greenwood at Llantrisant Folk Club Wednesday night. I wondered then if I was hearing the words right but never did ask Mike.

Andy

Subject: RE: Origin: Cob a coalin
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 06:02 PM

Just found the lyrics of a Waterson Carthy version

Pepperbox, ball of wax, morning to night
If you give us nowt, we'll tek nowt

So the Peppbox is a ball of wax from morning to night and overnight becomes a pepperbox? Some sort of derivation of the Werewolf legends maybe?

:D(eG)

Subject: RE: Origin: Cob a coalin
From: Snuffy
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 07:40 PM

No, the pepper pot is mourning tonight.

Subject: RE: Origin: Cob a coalin
From: BB
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 03:02 PM

It occurred to me when I heard this song sung the other night that it would be logical if it had originally been "Copper calling" rather than "cob a coalin". But that's because it didn't make sense to me as a Southerner... But the verses did also seem to me to be very close to some of the souling play songs from the North West.

I found it very sad that I had real difficulty remembering the verse that we used to say as kids around November 5th:

"Please to remember the fifth of November,
Gunpowder, treason and plot;
I see no reason why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot."

Sadly, it's being overtaken by Trick or Treat, especially as to go out with a guy is seen as begging, and kids aren't allowed to buy fireworks anyway, nor could they afford to with the small amount that they would likely be able to collect.

Barbara

Subject: RE: Origin: Cob a coalin
From: folkypaul
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 12:12 PM

Hey Miskin Man - it was sang in Llantrisant on the 5th.

I sang it the night befor, just up the road at the Turberville, Llanharan at their acoustic night.

Cheers

PaulO

Subject: Lyr Add: COBBA COALIN'
From: folkypaul
Date: 25 Oct 13 - 10:19 AM

With bonfire night approaching I looked for this song in the lyrics search. Whilst there were two entries neither was the one I was looking for.
I went back to the old method of looking through folders and found this version that I used to sing.
Anyone remember this one?
Cobba Coalin'

COBBA COALIN'

CHORUS
We come a cob a coalin', come a coalin', come a coalin'
We come a cob a coalin' for Bon Fire Night.

Well the first to come in is a miner you see
With his pick and his shovel all ready to dig
He digs it and picks it and down it does fall
And that is the way that we gather cob coal

The next to come in is a sailor you see
He's a bunch of blue ribbons tied under his knee
He's travelled from England to France and to Spain
But now he's returned to England again

The last to come in is a miser you see
He's a hunch on his back and he's bowed at the knee
He's a weary old fellow and he wears a pigtail
And all his delight is in drinking strong ale

Well down in yon' cellar there's plenty of bugs
They've eaten me stockings and part of me clogs
I'll get a sharp knife and I'll cut their heads off
And we'll have us a supper of bugs head and broth

And down in yon cellar, there's an old umbrella
There's nowt in yon cornice but an old pepper pot
Pepper pot, pepper pot morning till night
If you give us nowt, we'll take nowt; farewell and good night


PaulO

Subject: RE: COB COALING SONG
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Oct 13 - 11:03 AM

Mike harding recorded it on an early Lancashire Songs on Topic

Subject: ADD: Cob Coaling Song
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Oct 13 - 03:59 PM

There's a brief (33-second) recording of this song by Dora Turner on a terrific Smithsonian Folkways CD set called An English Folk Music Anthology. The songs on the album were recorded in the field by Sam Richards and Tish Stubbs between 1974-1980. The recording is available on Spotify. Here are the notes:

Cob Coaling Song, sung by Dora Turner, Stockfield, Lancashire
(Opie, The Language and Lore of Schoolchildren)

COB COALING SONG

We come a cob coaling for bonfire time
Your coal and your money we hope you'll enjoy
Fol a day, fol a day
Fol a diddle i doe day

Down in your cellar there's an old umbrella
And nowt on your cornice but an old pepper box
Pepper box, pepper box, morning till neet
If you give us nowt we'll have nowt but bid you good neet.

Notes (1981): Cob coaling, a custom which appears to be confined to the industrial areas around Oldham, consists of blacking faces and singing this song from door to door. The reward for singing is money which is traditionally spent on fireworks to be let off on Guy Fawkes Night, November 5th.
We have not discovered whether modern children keep up this custom, although it is more than likely that they do as we have heard the Cob Coaling Song from a number of people in their 20s.
It is sad to note that its absence from the majority of standard collections is not untypical of England's attitudes (until very recently) to urban folklore

Subject: RE: ADD: Cob Coaling Song
From: Reinhard
Date: 25 Oct 13 - 04:06 PM

Mainly Norfolk: Cob-a-Coaling

Subject: RE: Origin: Cob a coalin
From: Paul Reade
Date: 26 Oct 13 - 08:34 AM

I was brought up in Oldham, where we used to sing Joe Offer's version when we were kids, with a rather brutal addition at the end:-

Guy, guy, guy, poke him in the eye
Tie him to a lamp-post and let him die

I remember later having a discussion with Harry Boardman about his Failsworth version, which he had collected from local children. He had heard the Oldham version that I sang.

There's a bit of local rivalry between Oldham and Failsworth, even though they're only a couple of miles apart. I was brought up in Oldham, and moved to Failsworth when we first got married. In the local pub, they called me a "yonner", meaning I came from "up yon"!