Hokey pokey and the Druids?

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: campfire
Date: 11 Jun 99 - 07:47 AM

I just got one of those e-mail lists of "what if's" that included: What if the Hokey Pokey really is what its all about?

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: Matthew B.
Date: 11 Jun 99 - 10:31 AM

Omigosh, campfire! You my be right! eeeeeek

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 17 Jun 99 - 01:30 AM

I should remain silent in awe of such an academic endeavor, yet I must point out that none of you has mentioned the key role played by the sacred bough-run, without which the dancers of the honky-ponky would have surely lost the rhythm of the dance and ended up stomping each other to death. This actually happened on many occasions in pre history--one of the cro-magnon cave paintings shows a frenzied ring of dancers with sloping foreheads and prognathuous brows dancing in an ever diminishing circle over a growing mound of dead dancers with similar physiognomies. Off to one side of the soon-to-be-extinct dancers a spread circle of tall, laughing men with high foreheads seem to be flinging a large, flat, circular object in a game of keep-away, the putative owner of the disc lying exhausted at their feet, a stick with a knob lying just beyond the reach of his right hand... --seed

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: Fadac
Date: 17 Jun 99 - 10:07 AM

BSeed is right! There was a case in the 1720's (BC) where a Bough-Run was half devoured by a passsing rat. Right in the middle of a Pokey! This terrable event just occured when the call was, "Put Ur Big Ars in, and shake it all about." Nobody could get their ars out! The dancers were frozen in place, unable to move. Unable to Hokey. Time went by, hours, days, years. Other Bough-Runs were brought in, but without hope. (You can't change Runs in the middle of a Pokey.) After a few years, the people became harder and harder. Finely after a few hundred years, they turned to stone. These stones were left unturned. You can visit these very unfortunite HP'ers, now it's called Stone-Henge. Henge of course is the old term for Pokey.

Pokey, the real name of the crow-bar-hotel, is another story. As is, the orgian of the expression, "Get your Ars out of there!"

-Fadac

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: Penny S.
Date: 17 Jun 99 - 12:36 PM

Found an old counting out rhyme: unfortunately in a collection merely attributed to England, Scotland and America, without each one being identified. Probably this side of the pond though.

Hoky poky, winky wum,
How do you like your 'taters done?
Snip, snap, snorum,
High popolorum,
Kate go scratch it,
You are out.

Penny

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: LEJ
Date: 17 Jun 99 - 06:11 PM

Penny...you have just made an amazing contribution to the entire scholastic body of Hokipokology. The poem you recount is a fascinating mish-mash of English, Latin and Hikipikalt! I have used the Aureola Stone (the well known Hikipikalt Pub Sign which gave directions to the water closet in HP, Greek and Low Serbian) to de-codify this example of apparent childish folderol. Let me elucidate:

Hoky Poky, Winky Wum This is an allusion to the original ritual dance coupled with the Winkiwum, or Bough-run Ritual. It is a powerful invocation of the multi-armed Tree Gods.

How do you like your taters done? "Tater's done" is a linguistic corruption of Teeter-Stone, the term used for the linking "hinge" stones at the Stonehenge Monument . In other words, the Druidical priest asks "Welcome Deities! How do you like the enormous stone structure we have erected for you?"

Snip, Snap, Snorum Again, an allusion to the Ceremonial breaking-of-the-twig during the Bough-run."Snorum" is a latinate word which refers to the fitful sleep of the tree-gods, who have been awakened by this ritual.

High Popolorum Another English/Latin hybrid phrase translated "Hey! There's way to many of us, anyway! Somebody's got to go!"

Kate go scratch it, You are Out! This was the dreaded moment when "the Kate", the designated sacrificial victim, was selected and dragged by the other relieved members of the counting circle to the Altar to be the centerpiece of The Sanctification of the Limbs Ceremony.*

LEJ

*Bristlethwaite Hikipikalt Studies Vol.2

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: Penny S.
Date: 17 Jun 99 - 06:18 PM

I couldn't believe what I had found! But without a copy of Bristlethwaite, I was really at an impass. Thanks for the elucidation!

Penny

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: Alice
Date: 17 Jun 99 - 06:26 PM

Penny, check this out... King of the Cannibal Islands

alice

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: Penny S.
Date: 17 Jun 99 - 06:34 PM

I hadn't noticed that! Probably because it appeared to be vegetarian.

Penny

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: Llanfair
Date: 18 Jun 99 - 06:36 PM

Check out the new Fortean Times...or is it British only? There is the explanation of the origins of hokey pokey, which backs up Peter T's explanation....definately from the latin mass. I still don't know what happened to the druids, though......... Hwyl Bron.

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 18 Jun 99 - 07:08 PM

Actually, the early church got it from the Irish--an old pictogram text found by a peat digger shows that a few surviving slope-headed, prognathuous browed honkey-ponkey devotees fled the continent, their bough-runns not yet destroyed by the tall people, and landed on the Emerald Island--which seemed to them to be simply green--and thought long and hard about how their arm, leg, head, and butt flailing was lethal without the rhythmic assistance of a drummer. One of their leaders suggested that if they do all their dancing straight up and down, their hands held tightly at their sides, they were no longer lethal to their neighbors. They also found the style useful for getting rid of snakes, which abounded on the island in the millenia prior to the arrival of St. Patrick (who drove the snakes across the Irish Sea to Brittain where they mated with the invading Franks, producing the ancestors of the Conservative party). St. Patrick's followers, on pilgrimages to Rome, showed the dance to the Romans, who--because of their inability to communicate without manual flourishes--brought the dance back close to the form depicted in the yet-to-be-discovered cro-magnon cave paintings.

--seed

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: Alice
Date: 18 Jun 99 - 10:57 PM

This is all, of course, post hoc fallacy. (post hoc ergo proper hoc = after this therefore because of this) People are often hoodwinked with quack medical treatments because the post hoc fallacy is so commonly believed.

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 18 Jun 99 - 11:18 PM

Far be it from me to quibble, Alice, but even the phrase post hoc fallacy has its origins in the hokey pokey, and was in its original form a descriptive phrase applying to large numbers of the male dancers: post hokey phallusy. Even the later meaning of the phrase in its complete form: post hoc ergo procter hoc arose out of the discovery that it wasn't the dance, it was a drink made from the mushroom amanita viagarum that caused the dancers to become "phallusy"--and it was this discovery that gave the logicians the insight to realize that "after" doesn't always mean "because of." --seed

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: Banjer
Date: 19 Jun 99 - 04:23 AM




?

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 19 Jun 99 - 01:14 PM

What, Banjer, you're expecting posts to this thread to make sense? That's a pretty heavy burden to place on folks trying to define a little original territory for their doctoral dissertations.

--seed (who recognizes his misspelling of that which Alice had previously misspelled: "propter," not "proper" or "procter."

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: The Shambles
Date: 19 Jun 99 - 08:03 PM

Seed.

Thanks for the origin of the Conservative Party....I thought it was a bit hard on the snakes though.

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: Alice
Date: 20 Jun 99 - 07:59 PM

--seed, thanks for the enlightenment... I think.

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: Fadac
Date: 23 Jun 99 - 12:04 PM

It's been way too long. I finished my Hokey Pokey for today, so I thought I'd talk about the experiance.

Right hand, left hand, right foot, left foot. Just typeing the words, bring joy to my fingers.

So it's Oky doky on the Hokey Pokey!

-Fadac

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: Blake Madison
Date: 23 Jun 99 - 12:32 PM

I guess I just don't get all the scholarly stuff- the Celts, the Druids. And who the hell cares about Larry LaPrise anyway. To me the Hoky Poky has always been about a bottle of Four Roses, a naked dame, and John Coltrane on the phonograph.- Blake Madison,PI

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Jun 99 - 06:00 PM

Ah, Blakey, dear. If you'd only open your mind and look beyond the naked bodies, put down the bottle, and focus, you could learn somethng useful, like Hokey Pokey is not about hiding the salami! Have you considered hormonal therapy? That's hormonal, NOT whoremonal, you dolt!

And, you have got to take that Coltrane off and smash it! It does nothing but implant suggestive messages in your two heads, making the lower more dominant, thus encouraging your less altruistic tendencies!

Sincerely,

PrimPam, using Kat's computer

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: Fadac
Date: 24 Jun 99 - 10:43 AM

Oh my, Hormel? Gack! This brings visons of twenty people, ankle deep in chili, doing the Hoky Pokey, when the Boh-Ran player slips. Oh what a terrable sight, Hokeys there, Pokeys over yonder, and Hormel every where.

So do you have to pay Mel first?

-Fadac

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: AndyG
Date: 24 Jun 99 - 10:52 AM

Those with the time might consider a course of study at The Institute of Druidic Technology.

AndyG

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 29 Jun 99 - 08:21 PM

Andy, a font of truly awesome scholastic and intellectual (they are not the same thing, alas) endeavor and achievement. We scholars specializing in the archaeology, history, and culture of the Hokey Pokey would do well to emulate the incisive, rigorous research and interpretive activities of the Institute. Their discoveries re: monary computer technology are inspiring, truly and overwhemingly inspiring. --seed

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 29 Jun 99 - 09:05 PM

I just can't believe this thread is still alive! Your scholarship and erudition never cease to amaze me. I must however beg to differ about one thing: the Hokey Pokey isn't what it's all about- the Mudcat is!
Still LOL, Allison

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Jun 99 - 12:14 AM

Mud is thicker than water! Mudcat rules!!!

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: Bert
Date: 06 Jul 99 - 10:00 AM

I don't usually pass on news like this. I know you are busy; but sometimes we have to pause and truly remember what life is about . . . so, with great regrets, I pass on this sad, sad news.

There was a great loss today in the entertainment world. The man who wrote the song "Hokey Pokey" died.

What was really horrible is that they had trouble keeping the body in the casket. They'd put his left leg in and... well, you know the rest.

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Sep 99 - 04:39 PM

Somebody at Public Radio has been lurking through our threads! I just got the new Wireless catalogue, today, and lo and behold! right there on page 46 is a black sweatshirt or T-shirt, with white lettering which says,

What if the Hokey-Pokey
is really what it's all about?

Don't WE have the copyright on that!???**BG**

katlaughing

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: Bert
Date: 20 Sep 99 - 05:11 PM

Kat, Don't we have ENOUGH trouble with the origins of folk songs without you stirring the pot??? ;-)

Bert.

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Sep 99 - 05:17 PM

Hey, Bert! I'm jist trying ta watch out for Max's interests, ya know?!!!*g*

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: sophocleese
Date: 20 Sep 99 - 05:53 PM

Thank you, thank you, katlaughing for bringing this thread into prominence again. I always knew that folks here at Mudcat were an intelligent and scholarly crew. This thread is clear 140 proof of the breadth of their specialized knowledge and the depths to which they will sink in their efforts to disseminate (or get rid of) it. Truly an awesome site. As for Wireless catalogue, I'd recommend suing them for a modest 3 million dollars. A mere token gesture made simply to establish the Mudcat's right to the intellectual, or other, property displayed in its threads.

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 20 Sep 99 - 09:32 PM

I have GOT to get that shirt!!!!!

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Sep 99 - 09:46 PM

Animaterra, here's their number, 1-800-669-9999, tell them our lawyer's gonna be calling them, real soon. But first, I think we ought to ask Blake Madison to do a little investigating... maybe one us is an NPR plant! Blake Madison! Mr. Blake Madison! Please pick up a white courtesy phone. Paging, Mr. Bllllaaaaakkke Mmmaddddiissssoonnnn.

Glad to oblige, sophoC!

kat

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: WyoWoman
Date: 20 Sep 99 - 11:34 PM

I heard a piece on NPR this a.m. as I was resisting waking up about the "crypto Jews" of the American Southwest, whose ancestors fled to Mexico to escape the Inquisition and then had to hide their Judaism to survive. And in my blurry unawake state, I had the startling insight that my people are crypto-druids, who had to hide our spiritual practices from the catholic church many, many generations ago...No WONDER I've always got this itch to dance nekkid around campfires. (No, no. Not Campfire...campfires, lower case...)

ww

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 Sep 99 - 12:15 AM

LOL! WW! I heard the same piece. Thank gawd, though, my dad, esp. didn't make me be crypto about anything. Mom sent us to church once or twice a year, but it was really left up to us. When I told dad, at around 5 yrs old, I didn't see why people didn't just go to the woods to worship instead of in a stupid old building they made, instead of in gawd's creation he agreed with me.

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Sep 99 - 12:28 AM

Not only is this a great thread full of incredible bullsh...uh,......research and unfathomable depths of knowledge and understanding, but for me it is a true joy to behold and read on a very different level.

Do you have any idea how wonderful I feel when I KNOW that this one piece of Mudcat Bullshit EXISTS? More to the point, this particular insanity is the only one that I do not have to take blame/credit for either starting or taking part in. I am very proud of this and it's the only thing Father Joebro has written on the plus side of my "Pearly Gates Admission Application." I sincerely hope the fact that I posted on it here and now will not be held against me by Father Joebro. I can't do anymore fockin' knee time.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: Bert
Date: 21 Sep 99 - 10:03 AM

Wow, WW dancing nekkid and Kat going "to the woods" I'm glad that 'this' thread was refreshed.

Kat, Re: 'worshipping in the woods'; I've always wondered, when we bury people, why don't we plant a tree on the grave instead of paying a lot of money for a carved rock? We could then visit our loved ones in a forest instead of a graveyard. The thought of my old body & bones being held and hugged by the roots of a tree is much more comforting than thinking of them rotting away in a box.

Bert.

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 Sep 99 - 12:15 PM

Good idea, Bert, even though I intend to be cremated, I still would prefer the arms of a gnarly old tree, although I have to admit, the huge, plain, Colorado granite headstone on my grandparents' grave which simply says "Hudson", has always been very special to me, 'course I am really into the energy of the stones anyway, ya know.:-)

kat

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: Bert
Date: 21 Sep 99 - 12:26 PM

Hi Kat, My second wife wanted to be cremated and sprinkled up in the mountains, but she also wanted people to plant trees in remembrance. We had a beautiful ceremony with a piper, and we planted 48 bristlecone pines and sprinkled the ashes in and around the holes.

Other family members planted trees and shrubs in their yards, and the folks at work gave a donation to the Huntsville Horticultural Society to dedicate a new tree.

Bert.

Subject: Lyr Add: HOKEY POKEY (THE ICE CREAM SONG)
From: lamarca
Date: 21 Sep 99 - 01:07 PM

Just found this thread, and couldn't resist adding one of my favorite interpretations of the Hokey Pokey phenomenon, again harking back to the fertility rituals associated with earlier civilizations. Richard Thompson didn't say which of the Druidical/Sicilian sources he was influenced by, but the connections are clear...

HOKEY POKEY (THE ICE CREAM SONG)
by Richard Thompson

Little boy running and the little girl too
Got the money tucked up in their hand
Over the wall and down into the street
Give your man to the hollering man
Give your man to the hollering man

Chorus:

Everybody runs for Hokey Pokey
Hear the ringing on the ice-cream bell
He's got the stuff that'll cool you right down
It's the best that they ever did sell
It's the best that they ever did sell

Girl on the corner with the tight dress on
You know she don't know nothing so fine
Feels so good when you put it in your mouth
Sends a shiver all down your spine
Sends a shiver all down your spine

"Cat got your tongue" says Frankie to Annie
"Girl you haven't said a word all night"
Well Annie she smiled and she took another bite
Hokey Pokey made her feel all right, all right
Hokey Pokey made her feel all right

Well some like it round and some like it flat
And some like a poke or two
But everybody runs for Hokey Pokey
It's the natural thing to do
It's the natural thing to do

Down in the prison, number 999
Working like a bee in a hive
He's still dreaming of Hokey Pokey
Helps to keep that boy alive
Helps to keep that boy alive

Boss man he says to choir-boy Rocky
Don't you sing to the boys in blue
Or you won't get no more Hokey Pokey
By the time we're through with you
By the time we're through with you

Fellas in the alley all look like girls
With their lipstick and their high-heeled shoes
Feel so pretty and the boys all say
That they know just what to do
That they know just what to do

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: Neil Lowe
Date: 21 Sep 99 - 02:28 PM

Leej, SeanM, --seed: Damn, but you guys are good! I wish you had been around when I was back in college, struggling with all those topical writing assignments on the historical significance of such-and-such to so-and-so. Your dedication to (highly creative)legwork and your penchant for incisive irreverence would have been an inspiration, as well as a motivator to eradicate my own habitual laziness and sloppiness. My humble admiration for what you have wrought.

The first time around I mistakenly thought this thread was about some obscure novelty group, and completely bypassed it. Thanks, kat, for reviving it, and thanks Bseed for pointing it out in the Tavern thread.

Regards, Neil

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 Sep 99 - 06:14 PM

That's a good one, lamarca! You're welcome Neil, see.....watch the pendulum swinging back & forth, you are getting very sleepy. Now, do you understand? You WILL check out every thread, every day, that way you won't miss out on any of the postings of the Erudite Mudders. Repeat after me, "I will check every thread, I will check every thread, I will"......Now, when I clap my hands, you will wake up and not remember anything but your instructions. Smack! So, Neil, have you checked out that Star Wars thread, yet? Some obscure group getting together there.**BG**

Bert, that sounds beautiful. I think I will write some such into my istructions to my children regarding my hopefully, old, carcass, when the time comes.

katlaughing

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: Neil Lowe
Date: 21 Sep 99 - 06:34 PM

....I will check every thread, I will check every thread, I will .... %o}

...and yes, I guess that makes me Lowne Bacin... (oops...cross -threaded)

Regards, Neil

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 Sep 99 - 07:42 PM

Lowne Bacin?!!! I can just hear it, to the tune of the Lonely Bull, here he comes, Solo Fatback! Related to Han Solo, ya know? Or is it his twin, Solo Ribs, no, no...it's the Lowne Bacin and his trusty sidekick, Squatto, fresh off the farm! Out to foil those evil droids! Oops, cross thread, again! NOI, Neil!

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: Neil Lowe
Date: 21 Sep 99 - 08:38 PM

none taken...I am laughing, katlaughing, sunny side up with a side order of hominy grits.

:-D Neil

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: Tom B.
Date: 22 Sep 99 - 04:38 AM

I just know because I know, that Bert's right: it's about sex, and 1amarca with Richard Thompson's song shows where the subconscious goes when whipped out, because that's what it's all about, in and out, it doesn't matter whether it's a hand or a leg, and the person that originally "wrote" the song may say he was only thinkin' of legs and arms, but why think or say that, when that's not really what it's all about?

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From:
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 02:45 AM

Richard Nixon invented the hokey pokey didn't he?

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: alison
Date: 23 Sep 99 - 08:54 AM

I wonder is that why we ask the ice cream man for a "poke" in Ireland..... (and before you ask 'spaw... he would give us an ice cream cone)...... thanks for the song Lamarca

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: Canberra Chris
Date: 24 Sep 99 - 04:49 AM

Since there is some licence to be pedantic on this marvellous thread, Alice I loved your story but someone took it from elsewhere, probably US, as the 'Aboriginal' references are all wrong. The English they are speaking is B movie American Indian, as are 'villages', 'chiefs' and 'drums', none of which are Aboriginal.

I discovered recently that the English knew it as 'Hokey Cokey', and the Australians as 'Hokey Pokey', both are well referenced in the earlier messages.

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: catspaw49
Date: 24 Sep 99 - 08:22 AM

First, I want to point out that I am NOT on this thread. This is NOT a post and I will NOT have to confess my sins to Father Joebro. But if I WERE on this thread, I would like to point out the obviously phallic symbology of an Ice Cream Cone in it's relationship to getting a "poke."

And Canned Chris.......Being a bit new you probably don't realize that NOT ONE person on (or not on) this thread has any idea what the word pedantic means.......pedophile, yes...pedantic, no.

And a special message to my 17 year old, Middle Mike, who is at Fairfield Career Center, a vocational school, where he is studying for a career in Computer Systems Technology (and doing real well too) and asked me this morning what a good current thread was:

"Get back to work and quit mucking about with this group of illiterates!!! And are you sure you are supposed to be at a site like this?"

Spaw - the Ol' Man

Subject: RE: Hokey pokey and the Druids?
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 10 Oct 99 - 07:09 PM

I thought with that other thread about paganism and music resurfacing, it was time to revive this related one for the light it sheds on the subject. --seed