Origins: Master of the Sheepfold

Subject: RE: Origins: Master of the Sheepfold
From: Charley Noble
Date: 06 May 03 - 08:10 AM

Who would bother to read what had been posted before? That's history!

I'm still not sure who composed the tune but my mother this morning confirmed that her old friend Wendy had collected the tune as well as the words while she was living in Texas.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Origins: Master of the Sheepfold
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 05 Aug 03 - 07:27 AM

A few weeks ago I was helping to clean out a closet in the little community church in my village (white clapboard on the village green- very lovely) and came upon some old hymnals in decrepit condition. The other cleaners were for throwing them out, so I gleaned one copy of each type of hymnal. I was looking through one last night in hopes of finding something I could use (kind of like panning for gold- lots of dross, not much of any current value, at least in terms of the singing I do). What what to my wondering eyes should appear but "De Massa ob de Sheepfol'" attributed to Miss McLean and J.M.Whyte, copyright 1886 by R. R. McCabe!
The tune is similar, but not identical to Art's. I haven't checked the links above to compare it.
I could scan it if anyone's interested in seeing it. PM me!
The cover of the hymnal is so faded that all I can see is the words "Finest of the..." and in smaller letters, "combined". No title page. Most of the hymns are yawningly similar to each other; the book clearly dates back to one of the revival periods when the emphasis was on sin, salvation, being washed in the Blood, and telling the world about it. I was interested in the prevalence of the concept of "I" as opposed to the tone in most shapenote songs of a previous century, which are more general. Then along came this gem!
I've enjoyed this thread each time it's resurfaced, and I'm pleased to be able to contribute to it- it's such a great song!

Subject: RE: Origins: Master of the Sheepfold
From: GUEST,Arkie
Date: 05 Aug 03 - 12:02 PM

Thanks to all who have posted here. Threads like this are the main reason I keep tuning in to the Mudcat Cafe and what one hopes for when a request is submitted. There is far more than academic and historical information. The personal touches add so much to the overall picture. Everything together is what makes Mudcat such a valuable and useful resource.

Subject: RE: Origins: Master of the Sheepfold
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Aug 03 - 05:11 PM

Because my old link to my FortuneCity site has long gone, here is a reduced re-scan of the version I have in my old book (for the scholars among you)...seems it got re-copywrot in various forms over the years...

and here is the old thread with a few other commentshttp://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=5364

Subject: RE: Origins: Master of the Sheepfold
From: Charley Noble
Date: 05 Aug 03 - 09:25 PM

Pleased to hear that the tune that our old family friend, Wendy Holt, collected with the song is apparently similar to what Art has recorded.
I'd love to hear a MIDI or MP3 sample.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Origins: Master of the Sheepfold
From: Jeri
Date: 05 Aug 03 - 10:04 PM

Charley, see my post of 05 Nov 01 - 11:45 AM.

I tried to do a MIDI of Art's version. I think it's a pretty good representation, but I don't know if Art ever tried to get it to work after I messed around with it, so I don't know what he thinks.

Subject: RE: Origins: Master of the Sheepfold
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Aug 03 - 10:31 PM

Jeri..it is a quite decent midi of the tune...I 'thought' a couple of the notes were slightly different, but I'd need to go play the record to be sure...it is sure good enough to give the feel of it!

Subject: RE: Origins: Master of the Sheepfold
From:
Date: 18 Apr 04 - 11:09 PM

Charley,

I'm looking at My mother's song book and "De Massa ob de Sheepfol" SHe has credited Miss McClean and J.M. Whyte. So she must have found it in the same hymn book as "Animaterra." By I can remember her singing it to me as a lullaby when I was quite young. I'd guess she added it to her collection sometim in the 1930's.

Phil Holt

Subject: RE: Origins: Master of the Sheepfold
From: Barbara
Date: 19 Apr 04 - 01:12 AM

And I have popularized this song a number of places on the west coast where I have lived, because I love it, and I learned it from Charlie when we both were students at Michigan State University. Probably 1967 or so. He was fresh out of the Peace Corps, playing the banjo he "borrowed" from his brother, and cooking us Ethiopian stews so hot we had to spray 'em with the fire extinguisher before we could get close to 'em.

I was pleased to click on the tune from his mother's songbook, transcribed by Jeri, and discover it hadn't got too far from what I sing these days. I've apparently modified one of the verse lines, but most is the same. Yay. I was afraid it had migrated more than that over time and distance. Thank you, Charlie (Charley).

Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: Origins: Master of the Sheepfold
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 Apr 04 - 10:11 AM

Barbara-

Just to fill in a little here. Phil's mother Wendy Holt collected the song and passed it on to my mother, Dahlov Ipcar, who sang it to Bill and Gene Bonyun. Bill and Jean deserve the major credit for recording the song and making it available to a larger folk music community, but Wendy was the one who recognized that this song was worth reviving.

Wendy's song notes have been a valuable source for me as well, in that she also collected a lot of songs from Ella Robinson Madison, a Black woman who was nursemaid to my mother in the 1920's; Ella toured internationally with several black minstel bands in the late 19th century and sang in an early production of Porgy in the 1930's.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Origins: Master of the Sheepfold
From: WooBerry
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 12:11 AM

There is a clear scriptural allusion here, I don't think there is any question that this belongs in the "spiritual" group by its subject matter. As for the other needed qualifications, I will accede to the musicians here.


John 10
The Shepherd and His Flock
2The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep. 3The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice."

10"I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.
11"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 12The hired hand is not the shepherd who owns the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. 13The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.

14"I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd."


Diana

Subject: RE: Origins: Master of the Sheepfold
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 11:55 AM

Refresh for "Adam" who is wondering about the origins of this fine song.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Origins: Master of the Sheepfold
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 12:30 PM

and, wonder of wonders, I see that my link to a scan of the old "Brack Sheep" version in a songbook IS still there, while the later one, on an old server, is gone.

Subject: RE: Origins: Master of the Sheepfold
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 02:59 PM

Sarah Pratt McLean Greene (1856-1935), author of poems including "De Massa ob de Sheepfol'," and "The Lamp," is best known for her books about Cape Cod fishermen, including "Cape Cod Folks."
A photograph of her is found at http://www.lehigh.edu/~dek7/SSAWW/phoypGreene.htm

An incomplete bio. may be found at http://poetry.poetryx.com/poets/233/bio

"De Massa ..." may be found at the same website, and in Bartleby at http://www.bartleby.com/267/108.html.

"The Lamp" is reproduced at http://www2.bartleby.com/248/1327.html

Subject: RE: Origins: Master of the Sheepfold
From: Charley Noble
Date: 29 Sep 21 - 11:07 AM

Refresh for Fred Gosbee and Julia Lane who were wondering about the origin of this fine song and are planning to present it at a musical event in Maine.

This thread has a wealth of information, and some misinformation, and much repetition from those who never read earlier posts.

Cheerily,
Charlie Ipcar

Subject: RE: Origins: Master of the Sheepfold
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 29 Sep 21 - 12:38 PM

I saw the thread title of this long dormant thread and thought:

"Master of the sheepfold,
Here is our request
Please don't let that wolf in,
He is not our favourite guest . . ."

(Tune "Pilot of the airwaves")

Subject: RE: Origins: Master of the Sheepfold
From: GerryM
Date: 29 Sep 21 - 07:59 PM

I just noticed, way upthread, a few mentions of John Anthony Scott. Dr. Scott was a history teacher at the high school I attended, The Fieldston School in the Bronx. This was at the same time that John Seeger, Pete Seeger's brother, was Principal at Fieldston Lower, the grade school affiliated to, and across the street from, the high school. Here is an obituary for Dr. Scott.

John Seeger and John Anthony Scott both left us in 2010.